When I was in the service I had some dealings with "leaders" who led by bullying subordinates.

There were those who responded to crisis by relieving (firing) a subordinate or two, to prove they had things under control. And so bought themselves a month or two to fix the problem or transfer away from it.

I'm just curious that we haven't seen a lot of people from McCain's military days praising his leadership. We saw a lot from Kerry. If Clark were running they'd be coming out of the woodwork. But it's pretty quiet for McCain.

Just guessing, but I'd bet he was a bully as a boss.

Ya know Hilz, given this I think it is fair to point out that it was a whole different war for the guys down in the brush - like John Kerry and Chuck Hagel and Max Cleland - than it was at 5000 feet. Let's put "hero" in context here.

"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?"

"Ladies and gentlemen, we have a man here who does not know who he is. If anybody could come up here and help us out, we'd be very grateful."

At the risk of posting a sacrilegious comment, courage as a POW isn't necessarily a given. As a prisoner, McCain -- or anyone else for that matter -- had no choice. Where is the "courage"? Coming out alive...maybe one has to be wiley, or have a strong sense of endurance. Is this courage? I cannot in good conscience say it is, and from what I am seeing now, I do not give McCain the benefit of the doubt.

What I am seeing in McCain now is not what emanates from a person who is courageous at his core. He is horribly damaged goods. A weak intellect from his very beginning, it was only through his parentage that he was given prime opportunities that only much better other pilots earned.

I am willing to acknowledge that he suffered horribly and deserves compassion. I am not willing to call him a courageous hero.

Hilzoy,

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: Barack Obama learned who John McCain was when Obama had just joined the Senate. He tried to work with McCain on an issue, McCain took offense at something (meaning nothing), and then publicly embarrassed Obama in order to back him down and show him who was boss.

My thought this entire race was that in doing so, McCain essentially tipped his hand in a way that Obama has been able to profit from at every step. Obama didn't buy into McCain's bullshit about being a maverick or bipartisan, because Obama had been on the receiving end of McCain's petty bullying.

Payback, as they say, is a bitch.

Basketball is a physical game. It's a mental contest too.

Barack plays well.

The interesting thing is how Obama has mostly avoided the easy shots and God knows, a lot people were begging him to get angry and hit back.

That's looking like a smart strategy at the moment. Obama's lack of anger, his very coolness, seems to be making McCain more unhinged. Well..that and his poll numbers.

It's too late for me to get my head around it but it's fascinating to watch. When Obama jabs, he seems very effective. And calmly asking McCain to face him with accusations is particularly good. That has to be the last thing McCain expected.

Obama really knows what he doing. He's been clear-eyed and relentless. Resistance is futile, my friends.

It's almost like this was Obama's plan from the beginning. He told McCain he would consider both taking public funds and doing the town halls and then declined to do either. The public doesn't care about these tactical details, but McCain feels like he has been dissed. So he keeps bringing it up and comes off as whiny and petty, while Obama suffers no consequence. He probably would have dominated the debates, but found it more valuable to get under McCain's skin by not doing them.

Does anyone know what would happen if McCain (or any other candidate) burst a blood vessel and was incapacitated just weeks before an election? Does the VP jump into his sot. Do they get a do-over (not just a comb-over)? I don't believe this has ever happened before, but with Senator McTestycle, who knows?

"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? ASK ANYBODY AROUND HERE WHO I AM."

This sounds exactly like something George W. Bush would have said during his drunken, philandering years.

Though claiming to be a "maverick," John McCain is more like George W. Bush than he wants people to think...

...while Sarah Palin is even more radical than Dick Cheney, especially with her religious quackery and far-right agenda.

Two points:

1. Cowardess and courage: John McCain's courage to fight in a war should be commended, others weren't so lucky to choose and most of their work was done on ground level - greatly reducing the shine on that courage (everybody was doing it!). McCain was captured and spent time in a POW camp. Does this illustrate courage? I would say not. If so, how did he exercise that courage? Others attempted escapes, surely some fought their captors; what did J.S.M. do? Cooperate? Citing objective sources, I don't think he's ever been courageous.

2. I don't think Obama is in the position to take issue with those that underestimate him. Who wouldn't?

John McCain is an angry authoritarian full of cheap stunts, sound bites and photo ops that mask his weak policies.

I get the sense Republicans like the idea of John McCain more than the person himself and that they are voting for this idea regardless of the man's lack of vision, intellect, character and temperment.

PJ: I get the sense Republicans like the idea of John McCain.

In my neck of the woods, the only place I'm seeing McCain bumper stickers and signs are the rich neighborhoods, on Lexuses, and on cars with multiple Jesus stickers. I'm not seeing many Joe Six Packs with them.

I get a sense that Republicans are resigned to John McCain. They support him because they don't want a Democrat in the White House. But, I don't think there's a Republican I know of who thought they had any hope of hanging on to the presidency after George W Bush.

The good thing for us is that Obama is not just some shiny candidate we've rolled out while the iron was hot. He has truly inspired people in a way I've never seen before. And his candidacy is the result of serious vetting in the form of a contentious, and ultimately well fought primary.

With any luck his presidency will impact the world as positively as Bush's has done the opposite. And, Republicans will finally be revealed for the manipulative, greedy, lying, ass-faced morons they are.

Barack ought to be asking "Who is John McCain"
The Red Meat rallys scare the shit out of me - Brownshirt Hate Fests. I guess when you have nothing else

McCain plays craps.

Barack plays poker.

That says pretty much everything you need to say about how their demeanors compare. Poker is about controlling your emotions, understanding the odds, and reading your opponent. Craps is about throwing dice down the table and loudly cheering for luck to favor you.

There is a great difference between real bravery and reckless bravado.

Bravery includes not only one's overt actions but also how one quietly and calmly exercises self restraint which is essential if we are to live harmoniously in civil society.

The plausibility of reducing partisan rancor in Washington seems much more credible with Obama as president than with McCain. To me, this speaks a lot about my perceptions of Obama's bravery.

John McCain has a fucking screw loose. He is mentally and physically unfit to the president. Period.

Where is the "courage"? jcricket

I think this misses the point. McCain is Shakespeare's "Corliolanus", whose heroism is measured in wounds. He's rash and runs headlong into danger. He has contempt for friends and enemies alike. Where he is respected is not in providing leadership, but rather from fighting fiercely against common enemies. He has to learn to grovel for votes, but that just makes him hate the plebes even more. Ultimately, Coriolanus betrays his own countrymen, but is killed by his new allies, who never forgave him for past ruthlessness.

We want America's enemies to fear us, and John McCain is just the man to make that happen.

But here's the thing: Obama already knows who John McCain is, and it doesn't seem to matter.

Or he knows McCain is a Republican, and that's what really matters. Obama knows McCain has reliably supported Bush in the Senate and so doesn't buy the "maverick" image that bamboozled the press.

As for entitlement, well, Republicans in general and the Bush Administration in particular were certainly showing a sense of entitlement when it comes to holding the levers of power. Maybe they thought that Rovian tactics had build a "permanent Republican majority," even as their incompetence made their support dwindle. It must also really burn McCain that the Republican brand -- the flag he's fought for as a politician -- is now toxic.

McCain essentially tipped his hand in a way that Obama has been able to profit from at every step. Obama didn't buy into McCain's bullshit about being a maverick or bipartisan, because Obama had been on the receiving end of McCain's petty bullying.

I wonder if Obama has read Sun Tzu: "if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will fight without danger in battles. If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself."

I'm just curious that we haven't seen a lot of people from McCain's military days praising his leadership.

Well, it was only at the very end of his career that he commanded more than an airplane. He didn't screw up as a squadron commander to the extent that it blotted his public record, but you might notice that he didn't get made an admiral . . .

Great. Just what we need. A "kick down, suck up" as president.

John McCain's so-called wartime "heroism" consisted mainly of firebombing innocent civilians, including women and children, in densely populated urban areas, from the air.

Had I been a young Vietnamese man, pulling John McCain from the wreckage of the plane from which he had been bombing my community, I would have spared him years of suffering as a POW. Because he would have been hanging by his neck from a lamp post and never would have made it to the POW prison.

McCain plays craps. Obama plays poker. That says pretty much everything you need to say about how their demeanors compare.

To be successful in poker you need to understand odds, understand your opponents and manage risks. To be successful in craps you just have to be lucky.

The mistake craps players often make is that when they win they think they are skillful gamblers. You don't hear them talk about losing -- it's unlucky.

One of the Founding Fathers of of Indian Gaming.

That's what McCain meant when he screamed.."do you know who I am"

Even his policies are gambling related. HSA's ..privatize SS, buy back toxic debt, we will win in Iraq, etc.

He loves to roll the dice. It is his vice!

Obama does play poker but he is nowhere near the compulsive gambler that McCain is.

MSM help us out... post pics of John rolling the dice in Casinos all over this great land.

So..the temper thing's an issue, but we need a bit more light (thanks NYT) on the subject of gaming.

McCain was captured and spent time in a POW camp. Does this illustrate courage? I would say not. If so, how did he exercise that courage? Others attempted escapes, surely some fought their captors; what did J.S.M. do? Cooperate? Citing objective sources, I don't think he's ever been courageous.

I'm disinclined to judge anyone too harshly for what they say or do under those circumstances. And it objectively takes a measure of courage just to get through agonizing physical pain from multiple broken bones and constant beatings.

Where I cannot forgive McCain's lack of courage is in his political and personal conduct outside of POW camp. We often talk about how adversity brings out true character, but I've observed that the way people in positions of power or privilege treat subordinates, dependents, the less wealthy or the less juiced is a fairly reliable indicator of integrity. On that score, McCain's been consistently failing since grade school.

"Derivatives and hedge funds are like casino gambling," said South Korean Finance Minister Kang Man-soo. "A lot of Koreans are asking, how can the United States be so weak?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100903425.html

Like I said. McCain's a gambler. No wonder he didn't favor deregulation all these years.

"Obama has had the good fortune to run against two people who held the peculiar belief that they were entitled to the Presidency"

Please! Enough Hillary bashing. OK?

I supported Sen. Clinton in the primaries and I very happily support Sen. Obama now.

Anyone who runs for President has to be arrogant and ambitious. Clinton's arrogance was fueled by the conviction hers were the best ideas and abilities to administer the government. She proved to me and almost half the Democratic voters that such a conviction was justified. Much the same holds true for Sen. Obama.

A justified belief in one's abilities is the opposite of entitlement.

Furthermore, I strongly doubt that someone who ran based solely on a sense of entitlement could have given that fantastic speech at the convention.

I buy your larger point but also agree with Russ L. Beginning with his charmed childhood as the son and grandson of admirals, who bailed him out of trouble continuously, McCain had everything handed to him; that's the source of his sense of entitlement. Hillary Clinton never had anything approaching that largesse delivered to her daily on a silver platter the way it's been given to McCain, so I'd appreciate dialing down the Hillary slams. I'm not a PUMA, I'm voting for Obama and have contributed to him, so I'm doing my bit for unity - why not do your bit as well and focus on our common (and deservedly loathed) adversaries on the other side?

I hope Exxon John blows up and bursts like a balloon at the final debate. It'll serve him right....

One of the consequences of ending the draft is that we now have a large population unacquainted with military service. You need only look up the cartoons of Bill Maulden to see how far McCain would have made it with his war stories in 1948. Annapolis has a habit of graduating young men with an elevated sense of self, and as an Admiral's son, McCain grew up with a sense of entitlement and privledge superior to the Prince of Wales. There's a reason that many generals have made it to the presidency--but no naval officer who wasn't a junior officer, or in the wartime reserves.

What amazes me is that the long article about his gambling habits and his deep ties to the gaming industry that appeared in the NYT two weeks ago has had nearly no resonance. Or maybe the peasantry of the press corps lacks the nerve to simply ask him how many times he goes to a casino, what he plays, and how much he bets.

"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?"

Yes unfortunately we do now. Thanks for reminding us all that there are some people we think we know well, but, in reality, we don't really know them at all.

Did McCain ever actually lead in the military? Isn't a pilot's rank just a measure of his experience? I don't think he ever actually had men serving under him.

We accuse the Republicans and the media of having a narrative and excluding all information which does not confirm and expand that narrative.

So it's time for a reality check. Obama was not gracious to Clinton on several occasions. He is my candidate for President, he has my support, but he did let the negatives involved in primary campaigning get to him. In the debate I watched, he gave Clinton no eye contact. He seemed peeved with her. And he learned from those mistakes. This is a critical difference between Obama and McCain: Obama learns from his mistakes.

Just remember, Vlad the Impaler (a.k.a.: Dracula) was also imprisoned and tortured before he did far worse to his Ottoman enemies (women and children included).

This is untreated PTSD: uncontrollable rage, grandiosity (I will be President because I deserve to be President). Cf.: GW Bush, untreated alcholism.