Will McCain now drag his campaign out of the gutter?

In a word "No."

"Does that mean McCain is now ready to drag his campaign out of the gutter?"

The short answer is no. The most troubling thing about McCain is after claiming to be a maverick separated from his party, and spending months alienating and belittling Democrats and independents, how in the name of God could he govern? We have had 8 years of an imperial presidency presided over by a devotee of the "my way or the highway" school of stupidity, but even he had a strong party base. McCain proposes the same imperiousness without a congressional base. He proposes a style of governing that simply can't work. I think a lot of American people have looked at John and found him to be scary.

McCain is saying he could have had free time on major networks in the form of multiple town hall forums. It would be during those FREE MINUTES that he could've slandered Obama, as opposed to having to pay out of pocket doing it piecemeal as he does now. That's his true argument. "I wouldn't be running these negative spots if I could've gone negative with you beside me on stage a dozen times."

I think you miss the point here. McCain is describing his own view of himself, as the mythical Maverick who bridges the partisan divide. That statement is a lot more about McCain's fantasy world than it is about Obama.

I suspect there's a small chance he'll wake up to the reality of his candidacy, say, five years from now. But I sort of doubt it.

In each of the three debates with Obama, McCain has belabored the same dismal talking points -- because he has nothing more than those to offer or to say. Had the two candidates held the ten town hall meetings McCain thinks would have elevated the campaign, the relentless and resounding redundancy of his hollow banalities would have probably plummeted his approval ratings through the floor.

Relatedly - how would McCain translate this justification to negotiations, of any nature? Wil Unions become terrorist groups? Will Canada become a rogue nation because they signed the Kyoto agreement but we won't? What about our continual singualr votes at the United Nations? If the price for disagreement is slander and character assisnation - he is further gone than most people have stated.

McCain's continuing excuse for his gutter campaign seems to me to have a admission concealed within it:
(What he's really saying)
'I told Obama's people if they would not agree to the unprecedented number of town hall type events that I thought would give me an advantage that they would be sorry, because I would then unleash the 'dogs of dirt'. They did not cave in to my demand so to Hell with them. And if the media and the American people are repelled by my lying-negative campaign, to Hell with them too.'

Also, do not forget that McCain's campaign staff said they had to switch their emphasis to the character issues because they claimed that the press was not covering their attempts to address the economic issues (after making an early but very feeble and quickly discontinued effort to address poverty in the southern states).

Viewing the episode about Nixon on the American presidents series on the PBS American Experience, I was struck just how closely Nixon's very ugly congressional and senatorial campaigns foreshadowed the campaigns of Bush and McCain. McCain's campaign was merely attempting to repeat what has worked for some Republicans in past elections based on fears of communists, terrorists and taxes.

Despite every effort of his campaign to cloud and dust it up, McCain has achieved one thing he said he was for -- transparency. The people have seen through all the bullshit.

I thought the allusion to a Kennedy-Goldwater campaigning agreement about town halls was odd and a bit creepy. Was there really such a thing?

Such as it was, this was the low point of the debate for me:

Barack didn't quite close the thought on McCain's lame excuse for his immoral behavior. He started to lasso it: "this notion..." But then he arced away before quite cinching the deal.

That's how I heard it at least.
It will be interesting to see the transcript and see if I got that right.

That's kind of like GWB saying:

"We didn't have to go to war in Iraq for no reason. If Saddam Hussein had just produced some weapons of mass destruction or had a connection to Al Qaeda like I told him to, we could have avoided the whole "going to war with Iraq for no legitimate reason" thing. That's all he had to do."

He seems to have set a much high threshold for getting to know his opponent than he did for getting to know his running mate.

Furthermore, what does this say about his ability to negotiate with foreign heads of state? Will leaders have to agree to a lengthy courtship by McCain before they can be free of his slanders?

last night, McCain recycled his "Obama will tax people making 42 thousand" shpiel, his "Obama will overtax small businesses" shpiel and "Obama's healthcare denies you choice shpiel," three shpiels negated by Obama in prior debates, not to mention the media & indie groups who took the time to read both of their proposals on budgeting & healthcare.

And the honorable maverick John McCain wanted 10 more opportunities to tell the exact same lies & be schooled by Obama & mocked in the polls in the exact same way.

Someone needs to tell McCain that Obama did him a favor.

Seems to me like each joint public confab tanked McCain further. So 30 town-halls just might have eventually produced the 70-30 point spread we expected but never materialized. My guess is that at some point in his spiral to oblivion McCain would have pulled a Paulin and vanished from any journalist exposure.

Sen McCain confirmed last night that his means have surely become his end! -Kevo

What I wanted Obama to say in response to this nonsense was "Let me get this straight: you based your entire campaign on sleazy innuendo because you didn't get your way on town halls? How old are you, two?"

I'd also be interested in a fact check on that Kennedy-Goldwater reference. For one thing, Goldwater was, as I remember, considered a long shot for the 1964 Republican nomination at the time of Kennedy's death in Nov. 1963.

So being unable to look him in the face, and referring to him as "that one", would have been replaced by....?

Since BO mops the floor w/ Gramps every time they're on a stage together, it's hard to see why Gramps would want to do more of these affairs.

McCain and Obama have now met for three debates, totaling more than four-and-a-half hours.

Which is WAY more time than he spent with person he picked to be his running mate.

One wonders how Obama has avoided calling McCain a terrorist or suggesting that there's something shadowy about his character given that they didn't do a bunch of joint town hall debates.

Seriously, that's the excuse - Obama made him run a negative campaign; he had no choice when Obama didn't agree to meet him at the time and place of McCain's choice.

The excuse may actually be valid in some sort of twisted McCain way. Here's a man that gets whatever he wants or else he throws a tantrum to then get it. When he doesn't get whatever he wants then the repurcussions of his tantrums are the fault of those that denied him what he wanted. This is the attitude of a 6 year old. He's a child plain and simple.

On face value, McCain's argument is simply out-of-the-blue. What do townhall meetings have to do with the tone of a campaign?

Analyzing is more closely, it's just stupid. Everybody knows that Republicans play dirty: they would attempt to stack the audience (like McCain's first "townhall" that Obama didn't show up at). Or perhaps they'd cleverly place some white vase so that in certain camera shots, Obama would appear to have a turban on.

It wouldn't have changed the tone nor would it have helped McCain avoid appearing like the angry desperate man he seems to be.

McCain's words: "In 1963, Senator Barry Goldwater and President John F. Kennedy agreed to make presidential campaign history by flying together from town to town and debating each other face-to-face on the same stage."

Goldwater's words: "I would have enjoyed it very much. I even talked to him one day about using the same airplane, going to the same places. He'd get out in one place and start to debate and I'd rebut him. Then we'd turn it around in the next place. It was the Uncle Morris fantasy, and it probably wouldn't have happened."

If McCain says that the sky is blue, it might be blue. Or then again maybe not.

You know ---

I've been thinking about this head scratcher a lot. It really bothered me for a while. I used to think it was just deranged nonsense he was feeding to David Broader. But after considering it, and looking back at the time line, I actually think McCain believes it in the core of his soul.

He said he was always going to run a respectful campaign. After the republican primary, he was just not getting traction with the news news. He tried all kinds of weird stunts. He rebranded his entire website to look like exactly like Obama's. He tried to interrupt Obama's (not quite) acceptance speech, with his now famous green background "That’s Not Change We can Believe In!" speech. He was jumping up and down waving his arms, and yet there where no cameras…

That’s when he was demanding his town hall meetings.

Finally when Barrack took of on his Iraq and Europe tour, there was basically a media frenzy around. I think that’s when McCain SNAPPED!

Upon Obama’s arrival home, the evil McCain campaign had begun, launching off with Brittney and Hilton celebrity add. And WHOOSH The media started paying attention to McCain again.

I think McCain really believes that if Obama had just agreed to run around the country with McCain doing town hall debates, then he would never have to have run his ugly campaign.

I'm not sure that this deranged view from McCain is any more appealing then the they way it appears on the surface.

On the surface, he seems to be saying, you won't campaign with ME!!! Then you've forced me to slime you. Both are versions are pretty bizarre.

You know ---

I've been thinking about this head scratcher a lot. It really bothered me for a while. I used to think it was just deranged nonsense he was feeding to David Broader. But after considering it, and looking back at the time line, I actually think McCain believes it in the core of his soul.

After the republican primary, he said he was always going to run a respectful campaign, but he was just not getting traction with the media. He tried all kinds of weird stunts. He rebranded his entire website to look like exactly like Obama's. He tried to interrupt Obama's (not quite) acceptance speech, with his now famous green background "That’s Not Change We can Believe In!" speech. He was jumping up and down waving his arms, and yet there where no cameras…

That’s when he was demanding his town hall meetings.

Finally when Barrack took off on his Iraq and Europe tour, there was basically a media frenzy. I think that’s when McCain SNAPPED!

Upon Obama’s arrival home, the evil McCain campaign had begun, launching his Brittney and Hilton celebrity add. And WHOOSH The media started paying attention to McCain again. I believe THIS is when McCain really sold his soul to the devil. He belived Obama had the media attention simply because he was some kind of celebrity.

I guess running that first add is like trying Heroine for the first time. You just get addicted to the junk.

I think McCain actually believes that if Obama had just agreed to run around the country with McCain doing town hall debates, then he would never have to have run his ugly campaign.

I'm not sure that this deranged view from McCain is any more appealing then the they way it appears on the surface.

On the surface, he seems to be saying, you won't campaign with ME!!! Then you've forced me to slime you. Both are versions are pretty bizarre.

Man, the Preview and posting is busted. I previewed one version of this. Made some changes, hit Post, and both versions appeared.

If you have can, read second version....

PS: Steve, please please please bring back some of your technology from CB!!!

The media and the McCain campaign say this race was really even after the conventions and the Palin pick and that the terrible economy made the election go towards Obama in a big way. But, what I'm curious about is whether McCain would have kept his numbers up after the country learned about Palin and her absolute insuitability for higher public office?

On MSNBC this morning, they showed a focus group where they asked the participants two questions.

1. How many of you know someone who would not vote for Obama because of race? It seemed like about half raised their hands.

2. How many of you know someone who would not vote for McCain because of the Palin pick? It seemed like EVERYONE raised their hands.

"If she hadn't of worn that short dress, I wouldn't have had to rape 'er."

"If he would've given me his wallet, I wouldn't have had to shoot 'im."

"If he'd done the townhall meetings like I wanted, I wouldn't have had to slander 'im."

Yeah, okay, John, we get your drift.

Speaking of tone, I noticed that when McCain claimed to have "repudiated" all of the right-wing negative terrorism-related comments he's heard, he neglected to mention that "pallin' around with terrorists" line that Palin keeps using.

But then, his VP candidate is just some fringe nut his campaign has no association with, apparently.

Well, trying to see it from his p.o.v.... My guess is that this was one of those My Idea vs My Advisers' Idea things. The 20 Town Hall Debates thing sounds like an authentic McCain idea. Sheer speculation on my part of course, but I think he's saying that when Obama turned him down it left him no positive strategy he could fend off his own staff with, who were at that point all hardcore Roveians and were gearing up to do exactly what they've done. If Obama had gone with it, he wouldn't have had to capitulate to this faction in his own campaign.

It's still sad, oddly passive, and certainly doesn't get him off the moral hook. But I can kinda sorta see how it makes sense in his own head, in the contextual bubble of his own campaign, and why he keeps repeating it in this puzzling (and puzzled) way, as if he doesn't quite get that it doesn't make any sense when viewed from outside.

which he probably was in sufficient control of his own staff to push through, back last summer. But once Obama turned it down, he didn't have anything left to fight back with and had to capitulate to the Relentless Roveian Attack strategy they wanted all along.

Does that mean McCain is now ready to drag his campaign out of the gutter?

Heck he didn't even drag his debate out of the gutter.

That's Just What I Said

BTW, hulu.com has the whole debate available online.

That's Just What I Said

This is the abusive spouse defense. "If you only would have done what I said, I wouldn't have to smack you around."

It is rather despicable.

I think you're missing the unstated subtext of McCain's complaint, here.

What he wants is an angle by which to attack Obama. He needs to either find a policy position that Obama is on the unpopular side of, or to have Obama make a gaffe that he can magnify.

If they had done 10 town hall debates, the possibilities for an Obama gaffe approaches certainty. And Obama does have some unpopular policies that aren't very well known -- given enough debate time, McCain could have gotten Obama to state them on camera.

Basically, this is an inferior debater saying, "If I had enough time, I could have caught my opponent making a mistake. You should have given me that time."

Which, of course, is laughable. But without the opportunity to make a genuine mistake, McCain has no choice but to attack Obama on non-policy aspects. Otherwise there's nothing to attack at all, and his style of campaigning cannot win without attacking the opponent somehow. (Sadly, that campaigning style is the standard in america today.)

So I don't see any cognitive dissonance in McCain saying that more debates would have prevented his ugly attacks. I do think it's funny, though, that he's basically whining that his opponent hasn't left an opening by which he can get a punch through.

also - when they got into specific examples McCain cited issue commercial as negative. How does attacking a proposal constitute negativity. Hopefully people really heard that and understood mcCain was basically throwing a tantrum

Don't be fooled - McCain never has had any interest in a genuine "town hall." Remember, he gives the name "town halls" to those rallies where he gives the microphone to people so they can repeat the slimy lies in their latest racist email.

That's what he really wanted: Obama stuck on stage listening to people ask, oh-so-sincerely, why he wants to kill their children.

That's why McShame was so out of it and confused in the "town hall" format of the second debate - he kept waiting for the nuts to jump up and attack Obama for him.

What I wanted Obama to say in response to this nonsense was "Let me get this straight: you based your entire campaign on sleazy innuendo because you didn't get your way on town halls? How old are you, two?"

He basically did, in a grown-up way:

"And, now, I think the American people are less interested in our hurt feelings during the course of the campaign than addressing the issues that matter to them so deeply."

Don't forget that McCain only wanted a zillion townhalls with Obama because he had no money and Obama drew crowds. If there had been those townhalls, he would have had benefited from someone else's monetary advantage. Plus he actually believes he would outshine Obama in a townhall and would actually have been ahead rather than tied when the economy cratered.

In other words, he might have been winning and now the only chance he has is to produce sleaze. So in his mind, Obama forced him to do it.

This is the typical fundamentalist position. You see it in churches all the time. A man is "humiliated" by a wife that earns more money, so he is forced to level the playing field by being abusive or forcing her to quit work and become a housewife (a traditional role). Or a woman wearing a bathing suit/pants is sinning because she is responsible for a man being unable to control his libido.

"And, now, I think the American people are less interested in our hurt feelings during the course of the campaign than addressing the issues that matter to them so deeply."

I loved that response. McCain really did look like a WATB and this pounded it home.