I'm having a hard time responding to this news.

I only take solace that Obama is indeed a step ahead of all this nonsense.

If the media picks up on this story, as I'm sure it is intended, let's bomb them with demands that they revisit the whole US Attorney scandal. Not just the eight who were most commonly associated with it, or Brad Schlozman. There were at lease 23 who were replaced that strongly suggested attempts to influence elections. And they were all related to either very high profile (Abramoff/Cunningham) cases, or in swing states.

When people see press stories of 2100 fraudulent voter registrations submitted in Ohio and all the others submitted in the other states, they begin to question just how fair this is going to be and who is looking into it. And arguments that all of those fruadulent registrations are for sure being caught ring hollow. Whose to say only the stupid ones are being caught, and there aren't a few ACORN employees who are being smart about it?

By announcing that they are investigating it, the FBI is essentially "restoring faith in the markets" to borrow from the fiscal crisis.

As I said before, with friends like ACORN, the Dems hardly need enemies.

Lets hope this nonsense ends when Obama wins by 5% and no one can find anyone who actually voted illegally.

Yeah, but it's a damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If FBI doesn't investigate, the Repubs will be screaming all the louder. Voter registration is now over, so it's not as if the investigation will interfere with anything.

It's just too bad that those FBI investigations take forever; it would have been nice if they could put the rumours to bed, *decisively*, by, say, Nov 1 or 2, taking the weapon out of the Repub hands.

Story sounds suspicious.

The FBI "confirms" the story to the AP but ACORN spokesmen say they haven't been contacted. You'd think if their Las Vegas offices had been raided, ACORN would have more to say.

I'm going to wait. This could well be Repub dirty tricks.

breaking!

gop hospitalized w/broken pelvis!

it's a damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

I have no problem with the FBI investigating it. I very much object to them using it as speculative propaganda.

While the FBI is at it, why don't they saunter over to Diebold Corp. and run a full scale investigation into actual vote fraud.

The date on the editorial? November 3, 2006.

And we all know how well that election turned out for the GOP, don't we? Looks like these tactics really work!

Or not.

The existence of a "community organization" like ACORN, a group not unlike the groups used by William Tweed's Tammany Hall in NYC, is already a stain on this election. They should be RICO'd and put out of business.

SJRSM wrote: "As I said before, with friends like ACORN, the Dems hardly need enemies."

And as I have said before, no one needs a malicious liar like you, or your Rush Limbaugh talking points for dummies. So spare us the fake, phony concern-troll bullshit.

The phony FBI "investigation" of the bogus charges against ACORN is designed to lay the groundwork for Republican lawsuits aimed at overturning close Obama victories in swing states. This fraudulent "investigation" is yet another 21st century Jim Crow assault on the integrity of the electoral process by the career white-collar criminals who run the Bush Justice Department, and part of the Republican Party's plan to steal the third presidential election in a row with voter disenfranchisement, intimidation and fraud on a scale that will dwarf the Republican crimes of Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004.

SJRSM,

In 2006, McCain said 'What Makes America Special Is What's In This Room Tonight,' while delivering a keynote speech at a ACORN rally in 2006.

You fail to understand the difference between registration fraud and voter fraud and statistical significance.

But you go ahead and get your panties in a bunch over a handful of bogus registrations that will never be approved anyway.

When you grow up, we can talk about closed source electronic voting machines made by a company whose CEO promised to deliver the election and why that doesn't deserve and investigation, too.

wth?
What do you do when some clown puts down Mickey mouse and fills in the other blanks with bogus information?
All information is verified against the SSN database and therefore all bogus applications would be discarded.
This is REGISTRATION fraud NOT voter fraud. It only becomes voter fraud is Mickey mouse shows up and votes.
The republicans are just showing how desperate they are by yell wolf, EVEN THOUGH THEY disregarded valid votes in Florida during the 2004 election.

I have suspected from the beginning that the whole ACORN business is a republican scam to try to tarnish democrats. I guess I should have spoken up sooner. Get this info to Olbermann ASAP!

Selective Hearing:

When someone shouted out "ACORN" at a McCain rally last week(or was that this week?), I noticed that he certainly heard that and jumped on it and made certain to capitalize on it-- and McCain responded in a BIG way (as opposed to the unbelievably horiffic bigoted shout-outs which he somehow was deaf to).

"All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
--Paul Simon, The Boxer.

In 2006, McCain said 'What Makes America Special Is What's In This Room Tonight,' while delivering a keynote speech at a ACORN rally in 2006.

So what?

You fail to understand the difference between registration fraud and voter fraud and statistical significance.

I completely understand the difference. You fail to understand just how bad it looks that an organization tightly bound to the Democrats in everyone's minds is fraudulently filling out voter registration forms.

But you go ahead and get your panties in a bunch over a handful of bogus registrations that will never be approved anyway.

My panties? No skin off my back, I have no association with ACORN. I don't understand why your panties aren't in a bunch over it. Here is a case of stupid, incompetent, (but well-meaning?) liberals at ACORN getting taken to the cleaners by the corrupt felons they hired to register voters on behalf of the Democrats. That is the best possible spin you can put on this.

Corrupt, stupid, and incompetent. Are you satisfied with that?

Well, we won't have to worry about another scandal that forces an AG to resign; 19 days from now, Mukasey and his band of merry henchmen will get their "11-week notice to vacate the premises"---and I just don't see President Obama trying to impede a Dem-heavy Congress from investigating the "poached moose-burgers" out of those foul Bushylvanians. After all, how long did the Nuremberg Trials last, from beginning to end? Try extrapolating that by the sheer quantity of dirty ReThugs we have in America right now---and how many we'll have to hunt down the world over, once they lose this election, because a GWB pardon won't be worth the toilet paper it's written on---and the need to build all those extra prison cells alone will solve America's unemployment problem....

Maybe the good news is this happening now--imagine if this were coming out three days before the election.

The GOP and WH desperately trying to do anything to destroy the Dem momentum. They know that if they lose the Filibuster in the Senate, there will be serious investigations of what the Bush administration has been up to.

SJRSM wrote: "You fail to understand just how bad it looks that an organization tightly bound to the Democrats in everyone's minds ..."

You fail to understand that not everyone's mind has been reduced to jello by Rush Limbaugh and Fox News the way yours has.

SJRSM wrote: "Corrupt, stupid, and incompetent. Are you satisfied with that?"

No, I am fed up with that. That's why I will be voting for Barack Obama and not the corrupt, stupid and incompetent John McCain who has promised to continue the corrupt, stupid and incompetent policies of George W. Bush.

I know why the Republicuns are ascared: Mickey Mouse is a Democrat.

sjrsm: You fail to understand just how bad it looks that an organization tightly bound to the Democrats in everyone's minds is fraudulently filling out voter registration forms.

but...

a candidate can't win by getting the most voter registration forms...

unless you think mickey mouse will actually vote...and then it will be counted..

how crazy are these conservatives?

lol....

It's a scam that comes up every two years just around election time, while real voter fraud gets ignored. What do you call it when a company working for the Republicans tosses out reams of Democratic registrations? How about when the same company working to register REPUBLICAN voters is implicated repeatedly in multiple states for conning people into registering Republican or switching their existing registration to Republican? Just google Young Political Masters to find out more. Why aren't we outraged about the fact that Democrats will show up at the polls to vote and find that they're not on the rolls. How many of them will be added to the number of 'Democrats who tried to vote fraudulently'?

The whole ACORN thing is more virulent than ever this time around because it's fueled by the mortgage market collapse. One of the first things I heard from the Republican house members after the first draft of the 'rescue' bill was posted was that the bill included "billions of dollars of funding for ACORN who got us into this mess". It's been repeated ad nauseam, despite the fact that a reading of the draft and even the most basic understanding of how the Housing Trust Fund moneys are delivered proves that it is patently false. Then again, people are getting their information from McCain, who blatantly stated that Barack Obama was handing out the taxpayers' money on the board of the Wood Foundation - privately-funded philanthropic fund.

No, I am fed up with that.
Posted by: SecularAnimist

I'm sure you'll be even more so after having to clarify over and over it is just voter registration fraud and that you are 100% sure that no fraudulent registrations out of the thousands being submitted are making it past inspection. It's the like the guy who is carrying around a handful of dog poop and telling everyone, "look what I almost stepped in."

ACORN is making the Democrats look *bad*, and I'd think the Democrats would be the ones looking to take advantage of a Sistah Souljah moment and show they won't tolerate any shenanigans associated with what is one of the key tenets of democracy, a fair vote.

SJRSM wrote: "ACORN is making the Democrats look *bad*"

No. The paid professional liars at Fox News and Rush "Joe The Goebbels" Limbaugh and the career white collar crooks of the Republican Organized Crime Syndicate Masquerading As A Political Party are smearing ACORN with phony-baloney charges of "voter fraud" in order to try to make the Democrats "look bad" ... and of course, weak-minded ignorant neo-brownshirt dittohead mental slaves like yourself are drooling and slurping it up.

America is fed up with dumbass right-wing stooges like you, and you will see the results on election day.

smearing ACORN with phony-baloney charges of "voter fraud"...
Posted by: SecularAnimist

You're kidding me, right? Phony-baloney? With 7 convicted felons from the 2004 election in Washington state? Where ACORN recognized their own problem and agreed to fix it? Witnesses going on CNN saying ACORN employees asked him to fill out a bunch of voter registrations? 2100 fraudulent registrations submitted in Ohio alone? Hell, Obama recognized during the debates last night that registrations are being falsified.

Go ahead and live in your little Liberals Can Do No Wrong cocoon where people like William Jefferson and Mahoney and ACORN don't exist, where it is OK to submit thousands of fraudulent voter registrations because you *know* none of them will make it past inspection. And so it is OK to do it. It just makes you look stupid(er).

So SJRSM, if registration fraud has ever led to significant vote fraud there must be some evidence to back that up, no?

You know - investigations led by Republican appointed AGs that turned up convincing evidence of vote fraud in the last couple of election cycles?

Anything other than wild claims by people with a vested interest in vote suppression?

[...]that you are 100% sure that no fraudulent registrations out of the thousands being submitted are making it past inspection. -- SJRSM

OK. So, let's say that, somehow, a registration -- one less obvious than Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck -- *does* make it past inspection and onto the voter rolls (I don't know how, but, for the sake of argument...).

Then what??? Mr Joe Sixpack shows up at the polls and proves that he's really Joe Sixpack, registered at the appropriate precinct? HOW? How does he prove it? And does he go from precinct to precinct, with all appropriate documents, in hopes that one of them will have actually enrolled him?

I'd like for you to show me a scenario where a voter *registration* fraud can actually translate into *voter* fraud, because my imagination doesn't seem to stretch that far. Have you ever worked at the polls, in any capacity (either as officer of elections or observer)? Do you have any idea how those things -- voter rolls, the voting process, provisional votes etc -- work?

So SJRSM, if registration fraud has ever led to significant vote fraud there must be some evidence to back that up, no?
Posted by: Butch

Aren't you glad that you keep having to explain over and over that none of these stupid, incompetent, corrupt actions of liberals to fraudulently complete registrations, done on behalf of the Democratic Party, actually result in provable vote fraud? Aren't you thrilled to have to carry their water for them?

And ACORN plays other roles in our society and for the Democrats beyond making them look bad by committing registration fraud.

Again, with friends like ACORN...

You're kidding me, right? Phony-baloney? With 7 convicted felons from the 2004 election in Washington state? Where ACORN recognized their own problem and agreed to fix it? Witnesses going on CNN saying ACORN employees asked him to fill out a bunch of voter registrations? 2100 fraudulent registrations submitted in Ohio alone?

And you know what? Sounds like a dirty tricks squad from the right wing infiltrated ACORN to make them look bad.

After all, Republicans HAVE been known to do these things before....

Aren't you glad that you keep having to explain over and over that none of these stupid, incompetent, corrupt actions of liberals to fraudulently complete registrations, done on behalf of the Democratic Party, actually result in provable vote fraud?

Could be Republican infiltrators, you know. Why are you blaming ACORN when it's just as plausible that....um.....plumbers are actually sabotaging ACORN?

The only voting fraud being perpetrated in this election is the Republican Party's criminal enterprise aimed at disenfranchising and intimidating millions of eligible voters.

SJRSM is just another brain-dead dittohead, parroting whatever bullshit he is spoon-fed by Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. He neither knows nor cares whether any of it is true. All he knows is to repeat what the right-wing extremist propaganda machine tells him. So he gets drunk, goes online, and types up a bunch of horse shit for the thrill of annoying some "liberals".

According to SJRSM, because ACORN is being harassed and persecuted with bogus charges of "voter fraud" by Republican officials who are illegally abusing the power of their public office for partisan purposes, and because scumbags like Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and Sarah Palin are screaming lies about ACORN at the top of their lungs every day, it is ACORN's fault for "making Democrats look bad".

SJRSM is just like Palin and just like McCain: when his lies are conclusively shown to be lies, he just repeats them even louder.

ACORN is getting people registered to vote. Who says these people are or will vote Democrat?

In 2006, McCain said 'What Makes America Special Is What's In This Room Tonight,' while delivering a keynote speech at a ACORN rally in 2006.

SJSRM:So what?

So, why is it assumed that ACORN is working for the Democrats? Must be that "liberal" media that says ACORN is friends with Democrats only.

Rep. John Conyers responds to the politically-motivated, fraudulent FBI "investigation" of ACORN in a letter to Mukasey and Mueller:

It is with shock and disappointment that I read today's Associated Press report that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has opened and leaked an investigation into whether ACORN, a longstanding and well regarded organization that fights for the poor and working class, is involved in nationwide voter fraud.

As an initial matter, it is simply unacceptable that such information would be leaked during the very peak of the election season. Such leaks of information about ongoing criminal investigation matters are always inappropriate, and likely violate the provisions of the U.S. Attorney manual governing release of information about ongoing investigations (and which, in any event, would require approval from the responsible U.S. Attorney or Department division before release1). More significant in this case, however, they also run afoul of valuable Department traditions regarding the need for cautious and sensitive handling of election-related matters during the run up to voting (or, as here, while early voting is underway). Indeed, I note with dismay that this sort of release likely would have violated the traditional principles stated in the Department's Election Crimes Manual, such as the requirement that prosecutors "must refrain from any conduct which has the possibility of affecting the election itself," and that "most, if not all, investigation of an alleged election crime must await the end of the election to which the allegation relates," but those provisions were removed by the Department in May 2007 as the U.S. Attorney controversy was unfolding and it was learned that former U.S. Attorney Brad Schlozman had apparently improperly brought enforcement action against ACORN volunteers during the run up to the 2006 national elections.

Moreover, this news is all the more troubling in light of the proven wrongdoing at the Justice Department in the United States Attorneys scandal. As you are aware, there is extensive evidence that political operatives improperly pressured United States Attorneys to investigate and prosecute spurious claims of vote fraud in close proximity to an election. When some did not, they were terminated. Thus, one must view the timing of this extraordinary leak with added suspicion, given that it comes less than 24 hours after the Republican Presidential candidate raised these allegations in a nationally televised debate.

I know that it has become a right-wing cottage industry to cry wolf over alleged "voter fraud" during an election season (only to have such claims evaporate after the election has concluded). Indeed, using superlatives that would make P.T. Barnum blush, Senator John McCain, the Republican Presidential candidate, said in the debate last night, that ACORN "is now on the verge of maybe perpetuating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy." One would hope the Justice Department and FBI would more skeptically examine such sensational accusations than some cable news outlets. And this is particularly true where the allegations, even given their fullest reading, simply do not support such alarmist and unreasonable claims.

The facts as I understand them are these. A longstanding and well regarded organization that fights for the poor and working class has come under partisan fire for its voter registration acitvities. This organization has registered more than one million voters. There are allegations that some paid workers essentially cheated ACORN by filling out registration forms with bogus names and incorrect information. This of course would have harmed ACORN since ACORN pays to register potential voters, not phantoms, but - critically - does not deprive any person of their own right to vote or result in any unauthorized or fraudulent votes being cast. As one expert in this field has explained, "Mickey Mouse may show up on a registration list, but he's not likely to vote."

Furthermore, despite a long partisan campaign to stir up fears regarding so-called "voter fraud," they have been unable to produce any credible examples of meaningful fraudulent voting that could have a tangible impact on any election. Just this week, in fact, the Republican Governor of Florida, Charlie Crist, said - with respect to his state - that such allegations are "less than is being discussed" and ascribed these types of allegations to "some who enjoy chaos." Similarly, the Republican Secretary of State has indicated that he does not believe that ACORN is engaged in systematic voting fraud. Indeed, such allegations repeatedly dissolve under fair scrutiny.2

At the same time, numerous allegations have emerged that political operatives are engaged in supression of eligible voters and this activity has apparently failed to receive the intense attention that the federal government is now reportedly devoting to ACORN. For example, there are reports that the chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County, Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, has planned to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP's effort to challenge some voters on Election Day. Additionally, the Columbus Dispatch reports that the Ohio GOP in Franklin County, "has not ruled out challenging voters before the election due to foreclosure-related address issues."3

Accordingly, I condemn the leak of this sensitive information and remind you both of your and your agencies' obligations to handle election-related matters in an appropriate and non-political matter as the election season proceeds. In addition, please let me know no later than Thursday, October 23, 2008, if the release of information and all other actions taken regarding this investigation are consistent with the US Attorneys Manual and the Election Crimes Manual and, if not, what action has been taken in response.

Why are you blaming ACORN when it's just as plausible that....um.....plumbers are actually sabotaging ACORN?
Posted by: gwangung

Because ACORM admitted to it.

from Secular's post...
(only to have such claims evaporate after the election has concluded).

From a 2007 story (google on "ACORN", "Seattle", and "fraud")

In addition to filing criminal charges, Satterberg said state and local officials had signed a five-year agreement with ACORN that requires the organization to beef up its training and procedures for detecting and reporting fraud.

ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again.

>"Then what??? Mr Joe Sixpack shows up at the polls and proves that he's really Joe Sixpack, registered at the appropriate precinct? HOW? How does he prove it?"

Short answer: Who cares?

Defects in our system is where it all starts to go wrong.

Step 1
Constitutional amendment to switch to a popular vote. This gets rid of potential cross-border voting to tip electoral vote counts.

Step 2
Purple thumb dye.
Eliminates duplicate votes

Step 3
A federal ballot is provided to anyone who can reasonably prove citizenship. An ID like SSN could be checked against a federal database instantly. Verify for DOB match, gender match, birth-place.

Screw the felon exclusion. It is meaningless and mean-spirited. It is primarily a method to exclude Blacks with crack cocaine convictions. A clever ACLU lawyer should be looking at this.

Face it, with the two party system, who else are felons gonna vote for besides 'approved' candidates'? You think a candidate is going to come out and woo the felon vote?

Ok, SJSRM hs not presented ANY references to ACTUAL voter fraud resulting from registration fraud.

He's the fraud.

Ah, McCain finally connects all of the dots with the ACORN and Ayers smears.

You know it's bad when your presidential candidate starts sounding like he forgot to wear his tinfoil hat that day.

Because ACORM admitted to it.

Which is evidence that it WAS dirty tricks...since it was DETECTED by ACORN.

Thanks guy. You've now proven that it was a REPUBLICAN ploy to throw the vote.

Ok, SJSRM hs not presented ANY references to ACTUAL voter fraud resulting from registration fraud.
Posted by: Butch

I'm not accusing liberals of purposefully trying to commit fraud in the election now. I'm just pointing out liberal corruption, incompetence, stupidity, and greed, as embodied by ACORN's actions and your responses. That's all.

Oh, so sweet of SJSRM to not accuse us liberals of trying to "purposely commit fraud".

No evidence presented of voter fraud that results from registration fraud. No evidence that registration fraud even works since it seems so easy to detect AND ACORN REPORTS IT.

Plenty of evidence of Republican vote suppression attempts. A crime far worse in my opinion than the so far theoretical harm of registration fraud or non-evident vote fraud.

Nice attempt to divert attention from the REAL crimes being committed by Republicans, SJSRM.

I'm not accusing liberals of purposefully trying to commit fraud in the election now. -- SJRSM. @20:24

No, of course not. Why bother, when you have the ex-honorable ex-POW and his "army" of Repub Reptilians doing it?

Nice attempt to divert attention from the REAL crimes being committed by Republicans, SJSRM.
Posted by: Butch

No crimes here! Nothing to see here, folks! Move along...

King and Pierce County prosecutors filed felony charges today against seven people who allegedly committed the biggest voter-registration fraud in state history...The defendants, who were paid employees and supervisors of ACORN...

Uh, you intentionally left out the critical bit, dipshit:

The defendants, who were paid employees and supervisors of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, concocted the scheme as an easy way to get paid, not as an attempt to influence the outcome of elections, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said.

Petty theft OF Acorn, not vote fraud by them. Fuck off now.

I think that all this noise about ACORN is a precursor to the Republicans challenging McCain's election loss.

Watch for the Supreme Court overturning the election.

Watch for the Supreme Court overturning the election.

The US Supreme Court doesn't judge the validity of electoral votes. If any attempt is made to use to game this through the courts by the Right, Democrats need to put pressure on their Congressional delegations to draw the line.

And any action by a federal court (including, but not limited to, the Supreme Court) that affects the determination of electors necessarily, unless the State, bizarrely, specifically provides for a Federal determination of its electoral votes in State law, is clearly and unambiguously outside of the safe harbor provisions of 3 USC &sec; 5, and therefore, even if Congress' power to judge electoral votes were not plenary and of Constitutional character and not subject to limitation by statute (which, however, it is), such electoral votes would be subject to challenge and rejection as invalidly given by the Congress.

If the Republicans try to get their allies in the courts to toss out the votes of the actual voters, there is no reason for Congress to accept the votes offered in place of those that reflect the will of the voters.

Congress should not accept another judicial coup by the Republicans.

Uh, you intentionally left out the critical bit, dipshit:

Actually, no I didn't you #$%-ing moron. I said that here is a case of stupid, incompetent, (but well-meaning?) liberals at ACORN getting taken to the cleaners by the corrupt felons they hired to register voters on behalf of the Democrats. See my earlier post.

Thank you for supporting my premise with your post. Moron. You're as stupid as the human resources department at ACORN.

I said that here is a case of stupid, incompetent, (but well-meaning?) liberals at ACORN getting taken to the cleaners by the corrupt felons they hired to register voters on behalf of the Democrats

Now you can really fuck off, you cowardly fucking liar. Two days ago you trolled this board complaining that ACORN was committing voter fraud and helping Democrats steal the election, to wit:

We're talking about allowing someone to vote 70 times who should have only been able to vote once. And dead people voting.

Posted by: SJRSM on October 14, 2008 at 10:12 AM | PERMALINK

Now you completely changed your tune? Without so much as an admission that shortstop handed you your ignorant ass on this issue twelve ways to Sunday and revealed that you completely and fundamentally misunderstood the distinction between registration and election fraud and therefore had no fucking clue of what you were talking about? (and I encourage everyone reading to check out that amusing exchange)

And now you're pretending to be back in some sort of high-minded concern for the Democrats' electoral well-being -- while in reality still trying to wring some blood from this turnip because if you can keep saying enough negative things about ACORN it will serve to keep that meme alive, piss off the people here, and hopefully Obama's chances by creating a negative association.

Funny how in eight years of "corruption and competence" by "your side" that caused misery and death for millions you were never been able to find a voice for the downtrodden. But when a few financially desperate individuals in a tanking economy rip off their "liberal" employer for a few bucks and it can be used as a tool to hurt the Dems, all of a sudden you're the voice of rightousness.

Find somewhere else to work out your fear and desperation and guilt, you pathetic tool.

The date on the editorial? November 3, 2006.

Alek Hidell: "And we all know how well that election turned out for the GOP, don't we? Looks like these tactics really work!

Or not."

Not so fast. They managed to manipulate the 2006 U.S. House election via electronic votes so that the 40-50 seat gain expected by the Democrats in exit polls was reduced to 28. Watch 'Stealing America: Vote by Vote' if you dare. The received 'wisdom' according to the MSM and pundits is that exit polls have been, for some inexplicable reason, suddenly going wrong starting around the 2000 Presidential election. In actuality, this new and abrupt trend in exit poll discrepancies coincides with the use of electronic voting systems, after several decades of being pretty accurate when we all used paper ballots.

Out of curiosity, how many people here have ever been or are currently certified to register voters? I am, and it puts it all in a different perspective. The HAVA legislation means that if a person wants to get registered and writes 'Mars' on the address line of the form, I must let him fill it out and I must turn it in. It is not my job to 'police' or vet the registrants. I make sure they indicate a SSN and a physical address, that they fill out the blanks, sign it, check off the question boxes, etc. and I TURN IT IN TO THE COUNTY CLERK. The burden is on *the County Clerk* to verify the information, not me.

Now you can really fuck off, you cowardly fucking liar. Two days ago...

Congratulations, I now agree it is stupidity and incompetence leading to these felonies rather than a purposeful effort to steal the election. And as I wrote upthread...aren't you glad that you keep having to explain over and over that none of these stupid, incompetent, corrupt actions of liberals to fraudulently complete registrations, done on behalf of the Democratic Party, actually result in provable vote fraud?

Think Joe the Plumber has heard your careful arguments? Or does he now just think ACORN = voter fraud, and not just voter registration fraud?

I'd have a smidgen of respect for you if you'd hold liberals to the high standards that you imply they have.

It is not my job to 'police' or vet the registrants. I make sure they indicate a SSN and a physical address, that they fill out the blanks, sign it, check off the question boxes, etc. and I TURN IT IN TO THE COUNTY CLERK. The burden is on *the County Clerk* to verify the information, not me.
Posted by: Varecia

That is a different situation. In these cases ACORN employees themselves are guilty of the fraud.

It's about time we put the FBI out to pasture. When are they NOT seen as a politicized, corrupt wing of the current administration? Good goobly moobly!

Think Joe the Plumber has heard your careful arguments? Or does he now just think ACORN = voter fraud, and not just voter registration fraud?

Shorter Red State Mike: Sure, Republican allegations of vote fraud are a sleazy bullshit tactic, but they're an effective sleazy bullshit tactic, so I applaud it!

Shame on you, Mike.

And so far, not ONE cite from SJRSM to show actual voter fraud has occurred due to registration fraud committed against ACORN.

No answer to the FACT that ACORN must turn in all forms - including known fraudulent ones. No answer to the FACT that ACORN clearly flags such forms and separates them for the convenience of the authorities.

Oh, and in the latest breaking news, the US AG (David Iglesias) who was fired by the incredibly corrupt Bush Justice department for NOT issuing bogus vote fraud indictments or timing indictments to sway the 2006 elections is calling the leaked FBI "investigation" of ACORN a scare tactic.

And so far, not ONE cite from SJRSM to show actual voter fraud has occurred due to registration fraud committed against ACORN.

I'm not making that claim.

No answer to the FACT that ACORN must turn in all forms - including known fraudulent ones.

I cited a case from the 2004 election where 7 ACORN employees were convicted of felonies for filling out the forms. So this isn't a case where they had to turn in forms they thought might be fraudulent. This is a case where ACORN employees (i.e., ACORN) committed the fraud themselves.

I also cited a CNN interview this month where a guy stated he was asked by ACORN employees to fill out multiple registrations. Again, ACORN is the perp, not just the messenger.

Oh, and in the latest breaking news, the US AG (David Iglesias) who was fired by the incredibly corrupt Bush Justice department for NOT issuing bogus vote fraud indictments or timing indictments to sway the 2006 elections is calling the leaked FBI "investigation" of ACORN a scare tactic.
Posted by: Butch

All of this begins with ACORN's fraudulent actions. All of this is unnecessary. It unnecessarily taints the election process with impropriety and gives the whole "community organizer" concept a black eye. How about holding them to a standard?

This is a case where ACORN employees (i.e., ACORN) committed the fraud themselves.

And you've been told over and over that the ACORN employees committed the fraud against ACORN, without the organization's knowledge, let alone consent, to be paid for work they didn't do.

That you continue to tout this own goal as if it were a point in your favor continues to demonstrate that you comment here in bad faith. Shame on you, Mike.

And you've been told over and over that the ACORN employees committed the fraud against ACORN, without the organization's knowledge, let alone consent, to be paid for work they didn't do.

When ACORN employees commit voter registration fraud, that means ACORN commits voter registration fraud. ACORN itself recognizes this, as per the article I quoted:

State and local officials said they have signed a five-year agreement with ACORN that requires the organization to beef up its training and procedures for detecting and reporting fraud. ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for investigative costs and acknowledged it could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again.

If this was a one shot deal, fine. But it looks like ACORN has learned nothing from 2004, and in fact its worse in 2008.

[further trolling on this issue is subject to deletion - mod.]

If this was a one shot deal, fine. But it looks like ACORN has learned nothing from 2004, and in fact its worse in 2008.

Your last "fact" has not been established.

But to the extent that we know some of the registrations ACORN has received are bogus -- and it's nearly inevitable that they'd collect some bogus applications, which they are required by law to submit anyway (which you've been told, but are too dishonest to acknowledge) -- it's because they're in compliance with their commitment to "beef up its training and procedures for detecting and reporting fraud."

Mike, we're long past the point where you deserve the benefit of the doubt. Your repetition of this smear is dishonest, period, full stop. Shame on you.

:[trolling deleted - mod.]

It is one thing to be required to turn in registrations that they believe are fraudulent. It is another thing to commit the fraud yourself. When an employee of ACORN commits fraud, ACORN commits fraud.

That's just bullshit, Mike. For the zillionth time, the fraud you're citing is perpetrated AGAINST ACORN, not by it.

You should also be careful about handing your hat on that analogy. By the same token, when one American commits an atrocity, America commits atrocities. Why do you hate America, Mike?

You ought to be demanding them to act in a manner that eliminates even the suggestion that voter fraud could be afoot

Again, Mike, there's the problem with your arguing in bad faith. As your dishonest behavior in this thread proves -- and former Republican US Attorney Iglesias confirms -- right wingers will suggest that voter fraud could be afoot whether it's true or not.

Shame on you.

That's just bullshit, Mike.
Posted by: Gregory

Then why in the quoted story did ACORN accept its responsibility as an organization, pay $25K for the investigation, and acknowledge that they could be held criminally liable for fraud?

And can it with the whole "shame on you" shtick. It just makes you look stupid(er).

Talk about intellectual dishonesty and cowardice.

Impressive.

Talk about intellectual dishonesty and cowardice.

Bullshit, Mike. At issue is your intellectual dishonesty at repeating this bullshit after it's been debunked, debunked and debunked again. No one mistakes you for an honest commentor, and as a dishonest partisan no one is impressed with your accusations of intellectual dishonesty.

Jackass.

Jackass.
Posted by: Gregory

Moron. You've never debunked a thing I wrote.

Don't worry Gregory. The Moderator will protect you.