Now we know the exact sound of one hand flapping in the wind.

Go to Obama site to hear Biden speaking live now in Greeley, Co!

we had a crisis NINE MONTHS after Bush took office! WTF? Rude-y Ghouliani seems to forget that.

In other news, McCain now claims that he was tested during the Cuban Missle Crisis.

Apparently sitting on your ass in a plane awaiting orders from someone else as to where to go and what to do when you get there is considered "testing" in McCain's fevered world.

Didn't Biden also say something to the effect that the world will see that Obama has a "spine of steel" when dealing with whatever crisis the world throws at him?

A coworker hit me with this one this morning. Apparently, the quote that disturbed her was from later in the interview. She was leaning Obama, but literally took this to mean that "Obama would not react to a terrorist attack." I'm not entirely sure how she got there from the quote, but it would be nice to get a clarification from Biden before this gets twisted out of control.

Here is the quote that she highlighted:

"This guy has it. But he's gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us."

"There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision'," Biden continued. "Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound."

Biden emphasized that the mountainous Afghanistan-Pakistan border is of particular concern, with Osama bin Laden "alive and well" and Pakistan "bristling with nuclear weapons."

I've seen this argument coming from the knuckle-draggers that infest salon.com these days. It continues to mystify me as to what on earth they're talking about.

Biden's comments seem a little...weird, but I really fail to see how they're an indictment on, well, anything really.

I see nothing wrong with Biden's remarks either. But perhaps he should check his comments out with the campaign first because we all know how the Rs like to twist things. And how the media will repeat them ad naseum.

Speaking of things bothering people, my sis was disturbed by Obama's smiling in the third debate. Has anyone else heard anything like this? (I countered with McCain's eye rolling).

Sorry, this was an incredibly stupid thing for Biden to say. I dont blame the Repubs for going off on it. Be honest: If the shoe was on the other foot - if Palin said that McCain would get tested in his first six months - we'd be doing the same thing. This was dumb, dumb, dumb, and he's going to get hit for it.

We all knew Biden would say at least one stunningly moronic and damaging thing during the campaign, and now he's done it. Hopefully it's too late for it to make a difference. Hopefully he's done all the damage he's going to do to this campaign. We'll see.

I think the point is that the world won't have to test McCain: like Bush, he's perfectly capable of causing a crisis on his own,

The right-wing always feels like they have to explain a person's comments, what they must have really meant--even to the person making the comment.

Check this out from the brilliant Alaskan governor:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/21/palin-vp-senate/
Palin Claims The Vice President Is ‘In Charge Of The U.S. Senate’

What the hell are you talking about, TG? McCain has been harping for months that he's "ready on day one" and there's "no time for on-the-job training, which is saying exactly the same thing with about six more exclamation points and a "ZOMG!"

More manufactured outrage from the Right, as they try to convince people to believe what they say Biden meant, instead of what he actually said.

Rudy certainly is making a lot of noise lately. Did McCain promise him Homeland Security or something?

Well, if Obama IS tested by Al-qaeda during his first few months in office, maybe it will be because the LAST president so "tested" didn't respond at all by getting Bin-Ladin or Alzahaowi.

Seems to me that they're already being tested. Obama is cool, calm, collected and right. McCain is erratic, reactive, and wrong.

I get the sense "Joe the Plumber" rhetoric wasn't polling well in the overnights, so the campaign needed a new toy to amuse gullible, jaded buttheads like Halperin with.

Fixed.

Hannah, thanks for the link to Palin's bizarre claim that the vice-President is in charge of the Senate. Now I'm going to have bad dreams.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

If Palin said "When McCain is in office, other countries will cause international incidents specifically to test him" you all would be all over that. So would I. It would be a nutty thing to say.

When Biden says it, it's still nutty.

We've got enough trouble. Why do we want our VP nominee saying that voting for Obama is going to cause more trouble in the world? That's an incredibly dumb thing to say.

Frankly, this plays right into the Right's ideas about Obama - that he's not tested. That other countries would respect McCain and not mess with him, but they'll mess with Obama. Who wants that?

Do those of you defending Biden think that everybody on the left is incapable of ever saying anything stupid? People of all political stripes say stupid things on occassion. Obama has done it, and Biden does it regularly. Why deny it? It doesnt mean that Obama somehow ceases to be the best choice for the country just b/c someone on his team said something stupid.

Be honest - this was a dumb thing to say.

There is nothing wrong with that statement. If Biden had said Obama likes lemon meringue pie, McCain-Palin and their trolls in the media would attack it and call it stupid.

Biden was saying that when tested, Obama will pass. Nothing more. I think McC-P is trying to infer that, conversely, "the world" would know better than to fuck with a President McCain in the first place, but would quickly see the young guy as ripe for a crisis.

That is neither what Biden said, nor true.

Stupid throwaway comment.

Joe "Nostradamus" Biden can shrug it off.

Doesn't EVERY president get challenges to challenge him?

Bush sure did: 9/11-Iraq-Aghanistan-Katrina-Housing Crash - Banking Crisis.

We set the bar low to say Obama is virtually guaranteed to shine in comparison.

There are, if I'm reading this right, two distinct possibilities here....

The first one is that Schleppo bin Whatever will pull another one of his spectacular stunts, after which Obama will do what Bush should-a/could-a/would-a done, if he had only "borrowed a pair" from Hillary (I do so love those SNL skits!)---by burying the bearded bastard under a mountain, along with his al-Qureampuff girlie-boys (REAL men don't gang-rape a woman and call it "justice;" they throw the gang-rapists on a bonfire and call it "barbecue").

The second possibility is that the Unhinged Right---otherwise known as "the American Xenofascist wing of the Global Terrorism Cartel" (currently recognizable as the McCain/Palin camp and the same group of 1,500 bipolar howler monkeys who keep showing up at their rallies) is all up in arms over Biden blowing their super-double-secret plans to overthrow an Obama government.

Heck yes, it's snarky---but how often does someone get a chance to hype SNL, trash the Bizarro-Landers, bitch-slap the McCainiacs with a rust-encrusted horseshoe, and sucker-punch the lipstick-on-a-pig, pork-sucking Talibanners---all in the same post?

I've given up on understanding the right-wing ...

It was harmless, and it's being exploited to the hilt in a way that is just ridiculous.

I concede it was sort of a loosey-goosey thing to say only because he didn't tie it in to what he was meaning to say, to the larger point --that given the very strong likelihood of a crisis, Obama will be ready to deal with it. And he will be ready to help with the same (versus the very incompetent and erratic McCain/Palin). And it was a bit un-necesssary to give absolutes, like dates and so forth.

But the larger point he was making was very legitimate and a good one--and the media and Repubs are just too pathetically out of material that they're more than ready to pounce on minutiae like this. So it will go for the next 14 days.

Be honest - this was a dumb thing to say.
Posted by: TG Chicago

You're at the wrong site if you're looking for introspection or acknowledgment of error.

"Mark my words. It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy."

Nothwithstanding the double standard (again), the prediction was stupid when Lieberman said it, and it's just as stupid when Biden says it.

I can't imagine Obama doing something so ridiculous as to make a public prediction like this (which partially explains why Obama is at the top of the ticket and Biden fizzled out early).

What Biden said:

"Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

So he's specifically saying that electing Obama will cause an international crisis to occur.

That is a stupid thing for Biden to say.

If Palin had said the same thing, we would be mocking her for it.

Seriously - go to a leftie friend of yours and tell them that Palin said the above quote about McCain. See what their reaction is. You'll get my point.

not sure why biden would inadvertently play the 'fear card' -- seems like a pretty stupid thing to say, in public especially. i can see why the mccain campaign would be all over it.

TG's interpretation is the same false one that Republicans are spreading. Namely that Obama will cause an international incident, or that leaders will choose to try something because Obama is president. That is not at all what he said. That interpretation is willfully obtuse. What he said is - something will happen and Obama is the right guy to deal with it. The TG/Republican interpretation is just as mendacious a misreading of the comment as the whole lipstick on a pig imbroglio.

Biden was saying that when tested, Obama will pass.

No, that's not what he was saying. He was saying that Obama will be tested. Why in the world he thinks it's smart to say that is beyond me.

TG Chicago is right: "We all knew Biden would say at least one stunningly moronic and damaging thing during the campaign, and now he's done it."

I think it's too late for this gaffe to do much damage. But it IS a potentially damaging gaffe. It creates a narrative that the MSM can ride for two weeks, distracting voters from the economy.

The point the repugs are trying to make -- perhaps incompetently -- is that terrorists would know better than to test McCain, a war hero.

Biden is at his very worst when he think's he's on a roll, at his best. STFU!

Creating your own reality can be really hard work.

If Palin said "When McCain is in office, other countries will cause international incidents specifically to test him" you all would be all over that. So would I. It would be a nutty thing to say.

That wouldn't even come close to the nuttiest things McPalin have said. It's quite unremarkable actually. But thanks for the concern, troll.
All presidents are tested in some way after taking office, and it certainly wouldn't be surprising at all if someone tried to instigate a crisis, however minor, just to see if he's to be taken seriously.

SJRSM: You're at the wrong site if you're just looking for reheated Republican talking points.

The word "generated" is the problem; without it, the whole thing just means "something will come up".

You're at the wrong site if you're looking for introspection or acknowledgment of error.

Posted by: SJRSM

Not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate?

I happen to be a fan of Steve Benen's work. I just disagree with him on this issue.

News Flash Biden make theoretical gaffe- world stops turning. Obama's Granny will overtake this in the much coveted news cycle shortly. MSM will discuss and hash it to death with reporters standing in front of hospitals and nursing homes for emphasis. Next Up an inside expose on Hospice Murderers or Angels?

So he's specifically saying that electing Obama will cause an international crisis to occur.

No he's not, you are, troll. And if I told any of my friends that Palin said the same thing, they'd probably just shrug their shoulders--because all presidents face a crisis of some sort, for whatever reasons.
Like I said above, pretty tame compared to all the other stupidity from McPalin.

Here's what Sarah Palin said today:

Q: [Third -grader] Brandon Garcia wants to know, "What does the Vice President do?"

PALIN: ...they're in charge of the United States Senate, so if they want to they can really get in there with the Senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom.

Seriously...Biden makes one stupid prediction for every 100 ignorant comments that Palin makes. C'mon.

Clearly none of you listen to enough right-wing radio. I do so that ya'll don't have to and so that I know what the next GOP talking points are going to be.

The Biden quote is Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck's #1 talking point for two days now-- it serves multiple purposes. They get to attack Obama's "weakness" and "inexperience" on foreign policy, make fun of Biden AND change the subject from Powell's "racial" endorsement of Obama. They spend a lot of time emphasizing that the comments were made at a private fund-raiser, therefore they are trying to make the case that EVEN BIDEN is privately afraid that Obama is too weak to deal with our big, bad enemies. (Yes, they actively ignore the "spine of steel" part.) Rush's interpretation of the comments is that Biden is "inviting" trouble from our enemies with his comments and that clearly Obama is not prepared to deal that that even Biden knows this.

They are looking for ANY opportunity to change the subject to foreign policy because they collectively believe that Obama's major weakness is foreign policy and that it is McCain's greatest strength. It plays very well into their fear-based 11th hour campaign strategy.

This is about rallying their base and scaring away moderate GOPers and independents. Unless something else comes up this is what they're going to talk about for a while. It's stupid and convoluted but they clearly are looking for a way to change the subject from the economy.

By the way, look forward to GOP talking points to include Obama's drug use as well as assertions that he himself was a drug dealer in high school.

Merle says: "TG's interpretation is the same false one that Republicans are spreading. Namely that Obama will cause an international incident, or that leaders will choose to try something because Obama is president. That is not at all what he said."

You're simply wrong. Again, Biden said this:

"Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

I could see your point, perhaps, if Biden hadnt added "a generated crisis". He's clearly saying that someone somewhere is going to generate a crisis for the purpose of testing Obama's mettle. There is no other reasonable reading of it. What could Biden possibly mean by "a generated crisis" if not this?

Halpy want a cracker ... Rrrawwwwwk!.

It really is amazing how the McCain people control the headlines of Halprin and his fellow beltway hacks.

Not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate?

I happen to be a fan of Steve Benen's work. I just disagree with him on this issue.
Posted by: TG Chicago

I was referring to the denizens of the comment threads. Hilzoy in particular is willing to point out room for improvement.

Biden makes one stupid prediction for every 100 ignorant comments that Palin makes.

Granted. That's why we're ahead.

But that "one stupid prediction" happens to be on the topic that many feel cost John Kerry the election in the last week of the campaign: a possible terrorist attack.

We're all on the same team here. Biden has done his job. He just needs to tone it down and be careful -- especially on THAT topic.

For the record, I think what Biden said was stupid. If only because it leaves way too much open to interpretation and has given the GOP an opening to change the subject from the economy. One of Obama's greatest strengths is his careful choice of words-- which is Biden's greatest weakness.

Can we put Biden and Murtha in a locked room somewhere for the next 2 weeks??? Seriously. We need to nip careless comments like theirs' in the bud NOW. The last 2 weeks before the election CAN NOT be about Biden and Murtha gaffes. More Michelle Bachman, please.

But that "one stupid prediction" happens to be on the topic that many feel cost John Kerry the election in the last week of the campaign: a possible terrorist attack.

Fortunately, because this was a really dumb thing for Biden to say, "a possible terrorist attack" is not by any objective measurement what this election is about for the vast majority of voters.

Two weeks to go. Can we just have this fucking election already? All these people are giving me a headache.

Hannah, thanks for the link to Palin's bizarre claim that the vice-President is in charge of the Senate. Now I'm going to have bad dreams. Posted by: Tim

If by some fluke McCain and Palin win, the Senate will still be Dem majority. I imagine Palin would get the same sort of reception Agnew met when he went over to the Hill and tried to arm twist on some legislation. He was told, more-or-less, to fuck off.

Econobuzz,

I appreciate your concern, but remember - it's no longer 2004 and Obama certainly isn't Kerry.

Let them try and make as much hay with this as possible, it's convoluted as hell, and quite frankly can't be explained neatly in a soundbite. Let Limbaugh and Hannity scream on high about this stuff - like Palin, they are shifting nobody's vote at this point. It just makes them look bizarre and angry (which will dovetail nicely with the rest of the lunatics who are hanging Obama in effigy, or shooting bear cubs and stapling Obama signs to the carcass, or carrying around "curious obama" dolls).

In short, their righteous anger, which used to get them elected, is precisely what's going to cost them this time (and they're too dumb to realize it)

You got to be kidding me, here America has been witness to McCain over and over and over saying America gives money especially for oil to countries that “don’t like us�. Joe Biden, saying that perhaps these countries or a country like this could generate a crisis that would challenge Obama, saying this is a gaffe? No, America this is what one could call the smear and clever contextual jive juggling that Republicans are skillful at. Joe Biden was being honest straight forward with no gaffe, just forward straight to you, telling the truth.

Surprise, Bush called several countries the axis of evil, like Iran, South Korea, for years, or, now we have, Pakistan that received nuclear weapons, billions of dollars in aid from America, but now, Pakistan a, potential bombshell, is now already to shoot American solders on sight if they are going to cross borders into Pakistan with secret orders from Bush and Company. Here, the country that harbors the very criminal, Osama Bin Laden, we want, worse a country we supported for years is turning against us. With that said who is being tested right now? Bush and he has failed terribly in American’s asinine reality to support this non sense.

Here, is the very paradoxical example of the Mainstream Media who are complicit with the Bush failed leadership. This is so obvious it reeks of bias that support McCain for continued chaos and uncertainty. You mean Russia sitting on the oil pipeline in the county of Georgia isn’t a test to our lame President, or the next President? You bet it is. The crisis are on going, especially with the new money crunch that is world wide. Likely the money crisis is really a unified effort of a world that does not want to do business with Bush and Company. Very embarrassing for all of our media that are top of the line analyst that lie to America and will not admit Bush is wrong and so is McCain.

"He's clearly saying that someone somewhere is going to generate a crisis for the purpose of testing Obama's mettle. There is no other reasonable reading of it."

Of course there is. You say that someone is going to generate the crisis to test Obama. I read it and I think "A crisis will occur which will test Obama." That's a huge difference. In your scenario, a nefarious power is deliberating plotting some sort of attack. In my scenario, some crisis (diplomatic, military, terrorist, it doesn't matter) will occur (be generated) which the Obama administration will have to address.

This is really a non-issue. A true gaffe is one the MSM are talking about for days (as opposed to right-wing nutjobs, who'll talk about anything to change the subject). This won't get traction folks, as much as the wingers desperately want it to. There's no there there. Full stop.

All these people are giving me a headache.

Excedrin works for me. In fact, with two weeks to go, I take two in anticipation of a headache.

To SJRSM:

Okay, I see your point. When you said I was on the "wrong site", I thought you were referring to the blog overall.

Yes, I've seen some silliness in the comments here before, but there's also some good commenters. Definitely a lower signal-to-noise ratio than I'd like, but so be it.

It's simple-- they are trying to make the argument that an Obama presidency will put us in danger and that McCain is tough and scary and will protect us all.

They're going back to their "Obama is risky and inexperienced" argument. It doesn't matter that it hasn't worked up until now, they don't have any tricks left in their bag other than trying to scare and divide people.

I take two in anticipation of a headache.

Good idea. I'm sick of looking at and hearing from every MSM personality and every candidate. Except Prince Smarming, of course (that one was for you, exlibra).

I can see from the comments here that few of you are familiar with how mature adults talk about the real world.

Mr. Biden was telling people what they need to be prepared for over the next few years, preparing them for some real tough experiences so any Shock & Awe won`t work against us.

For those of you that still can`t wrap your head around his comments let me put it a different way. Mr. Biden is the real "Straight Talk Express" as opposed to Mr. McUnstable`s faux line of bovine excretion of the solid male variety.

And those of you that think this is going to have any actual affect on the presidential election I suggest you put down the Cheetos bag and go outside and play w/the rest of the neighborhood children.

The wingnuts are running very, very scared these days. Beware the cornered trapped animals.

"The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable." - John Kenneth Galbrait

I didn't read all the above comments, but I'm with TG on this one. At the very least, Biden should have elaborated on that remark. He should have put it into a context that would have disabled any impression that electing Obama was tantamount to courting an international crisis. If not blatantly dumb, it was certainly a maladroit thing to have said in context.

In my scenario, some crisis (diplomatic, military, terrorist, it doesn't matter) will occur (be generated) which the Obama administration will have to address.

Sounds nice, but Biden said that the crisis would be generated to test Obama.

"Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

If he meant what you claim, why would he throw in "a generated crisis"? It doesnt make sense.

"Mark my words. It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy," said Biden to a roomful of donors.

I have a feeling Biden was watching the History Channel this past weekend, because they ran several documentaries about the Cuban Missile Crisis. Which is, I think, what Biden is referencing here (ever heard of "The Missile of October"?)

And, yes, that entire crisis was about testing Kennedy and seeing if he would let the Soviet Union put nukes in Cuba.

Personally, I think Biden's right -- I especially think that Putin might try something as he did with Georgia -- but I guess it's one of those things you can't say out loud because people will flip out.

A true gaffe is one the MSM are talking about for days ... This won't get traction folks

I hope you're right. Let's just see how it progresses.

IMHO, it is the perfect topic for the MSM to seize upon: "Does an Obama win increase the odds of a terrorist attack? Just listen to Joe Biden; he thinks so."

Hell, MSNBC and CNN could easily play that out for two weeks. (I still don't think it will change the outcome, however.)

To make it even more obvious, tomorrow is the day that Kennedy first announced that there was trouble with the Soviet Union after dealing with it in secrecy for about two weeks. We're right in the middle of the 44th anniversary. So I think that what's on Biden's mind is the Cuban Missile Crisis and not terrorism.

The more they try to turn this thing towards foreign policy the more people are going to turn and see Palin winking at them causing them to run to the polls and vote for Obama.

It's the most nonsensical of all of their nonsensical points. What does "tested" mean? Who won't be "tested"?

The issue is who'd respond better to an identical test, Barry or the 72 year old Grump from Hell? And, heaven forbid that the Grump should flee the surly bonds of earth and leave us with the Chilla from Wasilla. Who'd respond better to an indentical test, Barry or the She Beast? I don't think that's a discussion our GOP dopes want to push too far.

"Not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate?"

RedStateMike has been whining about the commenters here for years, claiming that he's being picked on, suppressed, censored, etc., and that we all live in an echo chamber and like it that way, all the while entirely failing to provide a single substantive post or response, despite being repeatedly urged to do so.

It's pretty much been that way from the very beginning. Mike complained about the responses to his very first post here, whining that everyone was picking on him and that he couldn't find any serious responses, completely ignoring, and failing to respond to, those of us who actually did provide a serious response.

That's been his pattern ever since, although these days, he usually doesn't even bother posting the usual rightwing crap he's noted for. He simply preemptively whines, just as he did here.

I hate to admit it, but as I was driving yesterday I listened to el Rushbo and he extended the remark from Biden to mean that while Obama will be tested by an international crisis, no one will mess with McCain,i.e.,there will be no crisis with McCain as president. Please...

If Palin said "When McCain is in office, other countries will cause international incidents specifically to test him" you all would be all over that.

Um, I wouldn't. It's a reasonable thing to say. Other nations, terrorist groups, etc. are surely out there pondering how any new president would react. How is that controversial?

while Obama will be tested by an international crisis, no one will mess with McCain

This is a throwback to what us old-timers will remember swaggering Republicans saying in 1980: Iran released the hostages because they didn't dare to mess with Ronald Reagan. Old dudes who go to my gym are still hung up on Jimmy Carter too.

The Republicans are convinced that it's a "gaffe" because for some reason they believe that McCain is better prepared to deal with a crisis than Obama. That's absurd.

If this campaign has proven anything, it's that McCain is erratic, prone to rash decisions and panic. Obama, on the other hand, is intelligent, logical, cool as a cucumber, unflappable in a crisis.

They also think that Biden meant that Obama would be tested BECAUSE he's young and inexperienced. As if America's enemies and challengers obsess over who's President before they proceed with their agenda.

If anything, America would be a more tempting target with McCain in charge, because the response is more likely to be a flailing one.

I'll bet a cookie he was trying for "generational crisis". He's in the verbal tradition of Dan Quayle and GWB.

I don't see the controversy - we already know that the Republican party is planning to generate a crisis and claim that Obama was not legitimately elected. That will be a big test before he even gets inaugurated.

Was watching MSNBC and everything was about their new poll showing Obama up by 10 and over 50% for the first time in that one. Then it was all about Palin's idiotic response to a third-graders question, then all the "real America/"socialist" crap coming from the Repubs, then Bachman, and I think Biden's comment was buried somewhere amongst all that.
Sorry trolls, it's barely registering on the radar. Like I said, it's not a gaffe, certainly not compared to the truly stupid stuff coming from McPalin.

One thing you can find on the comment threads? A guy who thinks using hundreds of pounds of ordinance to murder an innocent woman and child is such a great thing that he wishes he could have been the one to do it.

RSM's biggest hit

Oh, that's right, he's now SJRSM (leaving out the G). Apparently he's proud of being a Swaggering Jingo, not so much (anymore) of being a goon. Perhaps he can explain to us all how Bush passed the test given him on September 11, 2001? Perhaps he can explain why we are still murdering Iraqis for the entertainment of sick goons like himself.

Nah, one would be looking at the wrong commenter if one was looking for introspection or acknowledgment of error.

This is a trap, pure and simple.

Obama's people see that the #1 negative for the McCain-Palin ticket is Palin, and her utter lack of readiness and relevant experience.

During the brief McCain poll "bounce" of the past week the McCain team managed to cloister Palin and get the press all focused on him. Obama's team, of course, won't focus on Palin directly, but they know that any time the experience/readiness topic comes up it benefits them.

So, Biden put this out there, and McCain took the bait. And now Palin is echoing it -- talking about the critical need for day one readiness.

Yes, Palin.

Brilliant, Sarah. Remind mainstream voters about the need for the President to respond to emergencies. You betcha.

Maybe, after they drop another 2 points in the polls as a result of this, McCain will send her on anothre $150k shopping spree in hopes she won't talk to the press.

The new President in 2009, whether it's Senator McCain or Senator Obama, will indeed probably soon have "his mettle tested" by an international crisis generated for that purpose by America's now numerous enemies.

Which candidate is most likely to have the coolness of temperament to respond rationally? The hot-headed former bomber pilot John McCain who misjudged on Iraq, or the level-headed lawyer Barack Obama who did not argue with the USA's Afgan invasion to get Osama bin Laden and yet did dissent from the Iraq plan?

Could things possibly be worse than already? Yes. Especially if next time we again seek the wrong target for counter-attack as we seem to have done in Iraq.

I have to agree with TG Chicago. It was a stupid thing to say. It's catnip for the next two weeks for republicans, and it could take a point or two off Obama's numbers in battleground states.

Plain and simple, Biden GAVE the republicans something to beat Obama over the head with. Palin has been thanking Biden the past two days for this gaffe.

While it may be imprudent for Biden to bring it up, I think it's true: other leaders will test the new president to see what he's made of.

For Bush, that was the recon plane brought down by the Chinese, months before 9/11. Bush blustered, then had to kiss some chinese ass to get the crew and thoroughly-picked-over plane back. Remember?

The Chinese showed the world, that when the chips are down, Bush is a *pussy*. And you can be sure that it had a strong effect on US-China relations.

I don't think McCain's "do a bunch of random shit" strategery will work out very well when confronted with an incident; quick reactions are great for a pilot, not so great for a president.

I have to disagree completely with TG's criticism of Biden.

I do think he is correctly reading Biden's comment as saying that one or more countries will deliberately seek a confrontation with the U.S. in order to see how Obama will respond. I also think Biden is correct that this is likely to happen.

However, I do not think it will be bad thing for the U.S. if it happens. I would not expect such a crisis to take the form of an Arab country or countries attacking Israel or Iran giving WMD to Al Qaeda.

Rather it is likely to be something on the order of Russia seeking another minor confontation in the Balkans or Caucasus, or China sabre-rattling over Taiwan, or the military taking control in Pakistan (again) and using anti-American rhetoric to deflect domestic criticism there. It could even be a purely economic or diplomatic challenge to America's leadership.

Anyone of these, if handled properly by Obama, could end up strengthening the U.S. position in the world.

Meanwhile, the Republican party has proven they will twist anything anyone says into a political controversy or attack. Even the most given public speaker or speechwriter in the world is going to frequently say things that can be made to look bad if someone takes your words out of context and then repeatedly tells everyone it means something other than what was clearly intended.

I have to disagree completely with TG's criticism of Biden.

I do think he is correctly reading Biden's comment as saying that one or more countries will deliberately seek a confrontation with the U.S. in order to see how Obama will respond. I also think Biden is correct that this is likely to happen.

Maybe you're right that what Biden says is correct and that it could ultimately be good for the US. However, as a political matter, it's not helpful to the Obama campaign. I dont think there are voters out there who are eager to vote for the guy who - by his running mate's account - is going to trigger an international incident.

Allan Snyder misses the point. If this is not gaining traction, I'm thrilled that it's not. And sure, there are plenty of stupid things that McCain and Palin have said - no doubt. However, just because something flies under the radar and just because you can find stupid things that McCain and Palin have said... those facts do nothing to change my point: that what Biden said was politically unhelpful.

My point is that international incidents are going to happen regardless of who is President and that Republicans are going to find something to criticize in any speach Obama or Biden make no matter what they say.