Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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October 29, 2008

THE CATALYST.... John McCain told Sean Hannity last night that his campaign is on the upswing, and he knows precisely why: "This 'Joe the Plumber' event has really been a catalyst. It really has. You know we look back on political campaigns. 'I paid for this microphone, Mr. Breen.' Ed Muskie crying outside the Union Leader, or whatever it was, you know? There are moments when something happened, and clearly Senator Obama going to Joe the Plumber's drive way, and him getting an answer that clearly he didn't like."

Now, for those who consider reality important, this doesn't make a lot of sense. Wurzelbacher can't be a "catalyst" (or, more accurately, an exploited mascot) for McCain's message since Wurzelbacher doesn't actually prove McCain's point.

As we talked about the other day, if Joe Wurzelbacher was a small businessman whose taxes would go up under an Obama administration, all of this would be very powerful. It's about attaching a real-life person to a policy point the campaign wants to emphasize. In this case, McCain desperately wants regular folks to think Obama will raise their taxes, reality notwithstanding.

But since McCain's "catalyst" would get a tax cut in an Obama administration -- probably a bigger break than under McCain -- the whole thing falls apart fairly quickly.

So, what's the point? Last week, Atrios argued, persuasively, that McCain is exploiting this guy because "Joe The Plumber" is "a white guy who's about to have his pocket picked by a black guy. It doesn't have to be true."

John Judis raises a similar argument today.

...McCain and Sarah Palin's attack against Obama for advocating "spreading the wealth" and for "socialism" and for pronouncing the civil rights revolution a "tragedy" because it didn't deal with the distribution of wealth is aimed ultimately at white working class undecided voters who would construe "spreading the wealth" as giving their money to blacks. It's the latest version of Reagan's "welfare queen" argument from 1980. It if it works, it won't be because most white Americans actually oppose a progressive income tax, but because they fear that Obama will inordinately favor blacks over them.

I think that's absolutely right. Pay particular attention to the way McCain phrases his ridiculous rhetoric: "That's what change means for the Obama administration. They're redistributing. It means taking your money and giving it to someone else."

McCain doesn't say who "someone else" is, but for the white working class undecided voters he's targeting, he's hoping he doesn't have to.

I've simply never seen a more offensive, more nauseating, presidential campaign.

Steve Benen 4:45 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (57)

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Comments

...since Wurzelbacher doesn't actually prove McCain's point.

Unless McCain's point is that unlicensed (driver's or plumber's), wife beating, tax dodging, non-union scabs are too stupid to understand the issues and vote in their best interest.

JT Plumber is just another Palin, another anchor on the SS McCaingry.

Posted by: doubtful on October 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM | PERMALINK

Too little, too late.

If they'd launched this back in April, or even August, it might have gotten some traction, but Obama closed the sale long ago.

Even before the Wall Street crash, people knew Obama was the one who would smack down the rich thieves and give working people a chance again.

When the crash made the economy more important than anything, including terrorism, that just sealed it.

Nothing McShame/Palin can say now can change that.

Posted by: Yellow Dog on October 29, 2008 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

It's dog-whistle politics, but not the way you're considering it to be.

Joe the Plumber does indeed represent a large chunk of voters: Americans who flat-out do NOT want to vote for Obama, but can't (or won't) explain why.

You can consider it a variation on the fabled bradley effect if you want. These aren't people who will say they're voting for Obama, only to chsnge their minds when they get in the voting booth. These are people who know that voting for Obama is in their best interests...but they still don't want to, and won't.

For these jolly a-holes, Joe the Plumber is an icon that says "It's OK. You're ALLOWED to be suspicious of smart and successful black men. I know *I* am. Do what feels Right. So what if he's promising you lower taxes, can you REALLY trust him? I know *I* don't. You don't HAVE to be an educated voter. You don't HAVE TO go to Obama's website and see all that he's accomplished and extrapolate from that what he'd do for ordinary Americans if he got in the White House. You can IGNORE how the rest of the world is hoping Obama gets elected; in fact, that in and of itself should tell you how much voting for Obama is wrong. Yeah, Obama's smart and compassionate and better for America and I'm voting for McCain anyway, so you can too!"

For a party that prizes blindly loyal voters over educated ones, Joe the Plumber is the Right to Be Stupid mascot, long may his beady eyes and thinly-veiled xenophobia wave.

Posted by: slappy magoo on October 29, 2008 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

And then, tonight, Obama apparently will feature 4 *real* people, not Sam-the-Skinhead pretending to be Joe-the-Plumber, who have been negatively impacted by the last 8 years and very much will be helped by his administration and policies.

You can then flush Joe down the next toilet he installs.

Posted by: Anonny on October 29, 2008 at 5:00 PM | PERMALINK

My secretary is very adament that "Joe" was a plant. Does not have a basis for it and I don't agree but believes it because of what has transpired.

Posted by: Wayne on October 29, 2008 at 5:01 PM | PERMALINK

"It if it works, it won't be because most white Americans actually oppose a progressive income tax, but because they fear that Obama will inordinately favor blacks over them."

If that is true, then Obama does have to address that unarticulated fear.

Posted by: Bob M on October 29, 2008 at 5:02 PM | PERMALINK

"I've simply never seen a more offensive, more nauseating, presidential campaign."

Oh, come on. You can't remember David Duke's campaign for president? Yeah, it didn't last very long, but it was as offensive as it gets.

Posted by: fostert on October 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

Has McCain finally slipped the surly bonds of reality for good? He truly sees Joe the Plumber as his campaign's breakout moment.

The same Joe who had to admit on national TV that he would get lower taxes under Obama?

What's going to happen when he wakes up Nov. 5 and realizes he squandered his reservoir of reputation, media love and public goodwill to run one of most pathetically dissolute presidential campaigns in modern memory?

Sweet Mother of God, is this the end of Maverick?

Posted by: Dave In Texas on October 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

I think Slappy hit it on the head. I have spoken to people on behalf of the Obama campaign and most of the undecideds can't actually give me a reason they are undecided. A few people that I know personally I was able to push them further and finally it is because he is black.

Posted by: Lew on October 29, 2008 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

What will this election tell the rest of the world about our land of the free and opportunity for all? 300 million people in a country and all you can come with is a phony Texas frat boy who invades countries for profit and a drug crazed old man from Arizona who lies and decieves his way into the highest office in the world to continue the same policies.

Posted by: SteveA on October 29, 2008 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

I know this is minor, but I loved this part of the McCain quote:

Ed Muskie crying outside the Union Leader, or whatever it was, you know?

Whatever it was, you know? That's kind of the McCain refrain these days. "I've been endorsed by five former secretaries of state, whoever they are, you know?"

Posted by: Lifelong Dem on October 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM | PERMALINK

As an aside...
I ventured over to Faux News, just to see what the "other side" is reporting. The poll of the day, and I kid you not, is "Do you believe that Barack Obama would lower taxes for 95 percent of Americans?" It's at 81% Yes, 19% No.

Posted by: Katie on October 29, 2008 at 5:12 PM | PERMALINK

Joe's a white guy who thinks minorities have "it" handed to them on plater. He does mind that so much, as he too wants "it" handed to him on a platter also. He is not hard working, and is stupid, so much so that he wants to make 250k, but does not even have a license. Now he has his 15 minutes of fame, and wants to cash that in, rather than have to work.

Posted by: lk on October 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM | PERMALINK

the appeal to hatred is actually somewhat effective here in Pa with the very angry, very cynical under-educated white Catholic lower middle class.thank goodness there are not more of them!They "just can't trust" Obama because they "don't know enough about him", but the more you push, the closer they come to running out of any reason other than prejudice.poor jerks!

Posted by: sue on October 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM | PERMALINK

Off the topic here, but did anyone just watch Tom Delay on the Chris Matthews show on MSNBC....the Repliars are getting desperate...here is a guy thrown out of Congress, probably the most corrupt congressman in US history, and he is calling Obama a Marxist, a radical socialist who is out to totally revamp the US constitution...good grief, such drivel...

Posted by: RogerNoVa on October 29, 2008 at 5:19 PM | PERMALINK

I've simply never seen a more offensive, more nauseating, presidential campaign.

Nixon's "Law and Order" theme was even more explicitly racist, I think. Everyone knew who was lawless and orderless.

The Southern Strategy, it seems, has come full circle. With any luck, the Republican Party will soon become the party of Southern racists plus the thin national stratum of plutocrats.

Posted by: bleh on October 29, 2008 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

Judis understands how nicely coded the McCain appeal is. Or is that not so nicely?

Posted by: The Heretik on October 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

James Garner should bitch-slap McCain and take back the title/name of "Maverick."

Posted by: Angela on October 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

I suspect that McCain's biggest problem right now is that the only people he'll listen to are the few who haven't already turned their backs on his absurd campaign. And in their world, Joe the Plumber is some sort of hero, rather than a pointless gimmick that most folks couldn't care less about. In RedState world, they actually LIKE that Joe still supports McCain even though Obama's plan helps him more. Somehow, they imagine this is a good thing.

And geez, is it that ANYONE can become a campaign symbol these days, or is there something magical about Joe that I'm missing? Even the parts of his bio that aren't an embarrassment for McCain don't seem particularly compelling. Heck, even if his original story wasn't a fantasy, it's STILL not a compelling story. But again, McCain is trapped inside a bubble that thinks this average nobody is somehow an important celebrity, and if he wants to waste his time talking about Joe, that's fine by me.

Posted by: Doctor Biobrain on October 29, 2008 at 5:23 PM | PERMALINK

John McCain is a revolting, disgusting man at this stage of his life. I never would have believed any candidate for president could be as bad as George Bush. But this guy's worse.

As for Joe the plumber and his role in this farce - he's beyond contempt. He makes Archie Bunker look like a paragon of virtue. And he represents the millions of angry, stupid, ignorant, bigoted white guys who are voting against Obama. And McCain is proud of the guy, gloating about how he's energized the base after the novelty of Sarah Palin has worn off.

If I were a religious man I'd say God help us. Or better yet, rig the voting machines to make sure we win, because we just can't survive four more years of worse-than-Bush.

Posted by: hark on October 29, 2008 at 5:27 PM | PERMALINK

it's simply time to shut up and vote.

Posted by: entheo on October 29, 2008 at 5:27 PM | PERMALINK

slappy magoo at 4:54: Awesome summation of the situation.

Posted by: shortstop on October 29, 2008 at 5:32 PM | PERMALINK

The Southern Strategy, it seems, has come full circle. With any luck, the Republican Party will soon become the party of Southern racists plus the thin national stratum of plutocrats. Posted by: bleh

Given the major endorsements from old-line Rethugs, the half-wit racist wing of the party might as well just join the Birchers. There really isn't that much difference between them any more. They can call on the neo-cons as their foreign policy "experts."

Posted by: Jeff II on October 29, 2008 at 5:34 PM | PERMALINK

As absurd as it is, Not Joe the Not Plumber is the perfect personification of the entire McCain campaign.

He said he was a plumber, but isn't.

He said he was going to buy a plumbing company, but isn't.

He said he would pay more taxes under Obama, but will actually pay less.

He complains about the media coverage he received, yet granted every single interview request.

He claims Obama is a socialist, even though Obama is nowhere close to one.

In other words, the entire "Joe the Plumber" concept -- and the person himself -- is a total, 100%, undeniable, provable lie. It's a falsehood. A sham.

In other words, it's the perfect way to capture what McCain's campaign has become.

The funniest part, however, is that McCain doesn't even realize it, or doesn't even care.

Posted by: Mark D on October 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM | PERMALINK

McCain has been playing out a bad hand this campaign season. He was dealt a king high, and kept it for four new cards. In the end, McCain will be beat by an ace high hand simply because he discarded the wrong cards and kept the useless one! -Kevo

Posted by: kevo on October 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM | PERMALINK

The plumber is not the issue, the answer from the guy running for president is, really not that hard to figure out.

Instead of always trying to brand disagreement as racism how about the novel notion that people like to keep the rewards for their work...especially those trying to raise families and such, not the big gazillionairs mind you just the guy who starts a business, takes the risk of the loans and the failure, succeeds and hires people ((giving them jobs). That guy is what the plumber thing is about not his past.

Focus on that.

Posted by: AMW on October 29, 2008 at 5:52 PM | PERMALINK

Not buying it, do you really think the wording would be different for Hillary, I don't.

Posted by: on October 29, 2008 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with many of the sentiments above, namely that there are lots of Americans who won't vote for Obama simply because he is "black."

His mother was white and his father was black, and thus Obama is "black."

By precisely the same logic, he could be considered "white."

I sincerely hope that Obama's victory will be the "catalyst" that leads us into a post-racial society; this color-of-the-skin business is so fucking tedious.

Posted by: JM on October 29, 2008 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

AMW: Instead of always trying to brand disagreement as racism how about the novel notion that people like to keep the rewards for their work... That guy is what the plumber thing is about not his past.

Focus on that.

Fine. Obama's tax plan would give more of a tax break to the fantasy plumber than would McCain's plan.

Focus on that.

Posted by: JM on October 29, 2008 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK

The bottom line is that if Obama was a white guy named John Smith, it would be probably the biggest landslide in American electoral history.

The old, ignorant, racist white folks (and I'm a white southerner by the way) of the south and the midwest, the supposed REAL America, are the only group still supporting the republican ticket.

I'm trying not to be too confident, but I surely hope for an Obama landslide, popular and electoral, as well as a democratic majority in Congress, for a clear and undeniable mandate. That's what it's going to take to start to reverse these last 8 hellish years, and the 35+ years of conservative rule before the Coward of Crawford's appointment.

Let's get there first, then we can deal with the beltway dems; Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the yellow spiners.

Posted by: citizen_pain on October 29, 2008 at 6:04 PM | PERMALINK

Undecided voters are just assholes who like to be on the winning side of things.

They're the kind of people who wait until the last minute to pick their teams, simply because they don't like to lose.

I see them going for Obama for this reason. Because he's got the momentum and they don' want to lost.

McCain/Palin is a joke. If they win I will be very, very sad.

Posted by: Monkey on October 29, 2008 at 6:07 PM | PERMALINK

"Joe": it is not his "real" name; "the": he is not THE ONLY ONE; "Plumber": he is not licensed as a plumber, anywhere. Yes, he is a total lie. I still say it is the people reporting this crap who are to blame; and we are enabling them by continuing to listen to them and not "boycott" them.

I also find it disingenuous of the Right to regard Obama as African-American, as that term is generally used to refer to the American descendents of slaves. As I understand his lineage, he is the son of an African-born and raised Kenyan man, who is black(is that a race?), not African-American, and a "white woman" of European descent, who grew up in the midwest, so has none of that "slave-descendent baggage". He was born in Hawaii and spent his formative years in Indonesia, not in some Black Ghetto in the South of the U.S. His white grandmother is credited with much of his upbringing, so, again, he does not have that "black" culture as part of his core nature. I don't know if this is relevant, but it puts yet another lie to the McLie campaign agenda.

peace,
st john

Posted by: st john on October 29, 2008 at 6:13 PM | PERMALINK

Undecided voters are just assholes who like to be on the winning side of things.

David Sedaris wrote recently that an undecided voter [in this election, at least] is like a guy on an airplane who, when offered the choice between chicken or a plate of shit with bits of broken glass, will ask, "How is the chicken cooked?"

Posted by: JM on October 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM | PERMALINK

Regarding this offensive, nauseating campign---Gore Vidal at truthdig.com
had well a scripted essay:
First couple bits:

"October proved to be the cruelest month, for that was the time that Sen. McCain, he of the round, blank, Little Orphan Annie eyes, chose to try out a number of weird lies about Barack Obama ostensibly in the interest of a Republican Party long overdue for burial.

It is a wonder that any viewer survived his furious October onslaught whose craziest lie was that Obama wished to become president in order to tax the poor in the interest of a Democratic Party in place, as he put it in his best 1936 voice, to spend and spend because that’s what Democrats always do. This was pretty feeble lying, even in such an age as ours. But it was the only thing that had stuck with him from those halcyon years when Gov. Alfred M. Landon was the candidate of the Grand Old Party, which in those days was dedicated to erasing every policy of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, whose electoral success was due to, they thought, Harry Hopkins’ chilling mantra, "we shall … spend and spend and elect and elect."
"Arguably, the ignorant McCains of this world have no idea what any of this actually signifies; Hopkins’ comment is a serious one, and serious matters seldom break through to cliché-ridden minds..."

Posted by: consider wisely always on October 29, 2008 at 7:14 PM | PERMALINK

AVM would it be too much to ask if you applied a little simple math to your less than eloquent bs.
If Joe the bs plumber were to somehow go into business for himself( I'm certain it would fail because he's dumber than a rock) the extra taxes he wouold pay on the 30 to 50 thousand above 250 thousand would be $900 to $1500. Now if that's such an incredible burden to bear for making that extra 30 to 50k let the douche bag keep working for the 40k a year he now makes.
Besides that I think at least 90% of the people in this country would gladly pay that extra 3% for the opportunity to make that much money in one year.
Gandalf the mathman

Posted by: Gandalf on October 29, 2008 at 7:23 PM | PERMALINK

Instead of always trying to brand disagreement as racism how about the novel notion that people like to keep the rewards for their work...especially those trying to raise families and such, not the big gazillionairs mind you just the guy who starts a business, takes the risk of the loans and the failure, succeeds and hires people ((giving them jobs). That guy is what the plumber thing is about not his past.

And yet under McCain's plan, the big gazillionaires will be getting the tax breaks, not the struggling small businessmen. It's right there in black and white.

If you vote for McCain, you vote for rich people to get better tax breaks than you. Even Joe the Plumber admitted that he would keep more of his hard-earned money under Obama's plan than under McCain's ... but he's working for McCain anyway.

Are rank-and-file Republicans going to stop licking the boots of the rich and powerful anytime soon? Anyone? Bueller?

Posted by: Mnemosyne on October 29, 2008 at 7:29 PM | PERMALINK

It's logically fraudulent as well, since the tax plans mean: 1. At the top, a difference of a few percentage points not a difference in principle. 2. The hypocrisy of McCain wanting even lower cap gains rates than we have now (due to Republican power), so that wealth can be redistributed from genuine hard working plumbers to Wall Street speculators.

BTW, conservatives are always telling us the President doesn't make tax policy, the USC says the Congress has to write tax and revenue bills, so why do we even talk about President's "tax plans" anyway? (It isn't that simple, but according to their own take ...)

Posted by: Neil B on October 29, 2008 at 7:37 PM | PERMALINK

This is bullshit. McCain is running a shitty campaign, and playing on people's fears. But this constant branding of anyone who doesn'tlike Obama as a racist is over the top. I have no desire to see McCain be President, but there are actually people who don't think they should be taxed in order to give other people money. They may be wrong, even selfish, but it's not always racism. McCain says "other people," and Steve declares that he means blacks? By that logic, you can take any statement McCain makes that's critical of Obama and claim it's racist. Inexperienced? Racist. A product of a corrupt Chicago machine? Racist. You guys are getting a really nice head start on the whole racial unity thing.

And I must say, this campaign has revealed an amazing number of white people who are suddenly experts at spotting racism, even if it's coded to look like a shopping list. Apparently Republicans only talk in racist code now.

Posted by: ChrisO on October 29, 2008 at 7:37 PM | PERMALINK

Hey St. John

Obama's father was from Africa, his mother was American. If anyone can be described as African-American, it's him.

This like the Muslim thing. It's only an insult if you consider being an African-American a bad thing. It's pretty clear from your references to "some Black Ghetto in the South" and your insistence that"he does not have that "black" culture as part of his core nature" that you need to check yourself out a little bit before you start criticizing others.

Posted by: ChrisO on October 29, 2008 at 7:44 PM | PERMALINK

ChrisO:
Sorry if you did not understand my post. I am not criticising African-Americans, Obama or some Black Ghetto in the South. That was meant as sarcasm. Sorry if it did not come off that way. What I am "trying to say" is that Obama does not fit the stereotype that I think the opposition is placing around him. The African-American/ghetto reference is to the stereotype. Obama does not come close to that. His father is African, not African-American and is not descended from slaves, at least American slaves. So, that does not place him into that oppressed class. His mother, well, you called her American; is she only American because she is "white". Couldn't she have been American and black, or Asian, or Indiginous, or some other desigantion? Well, at least she looks American, whatever that is./snark OK, she is an American citizen and we know she is white, don't we? Has anyone run her geneology? You know, Cheney claims to be related to Obama. Wonder which side?

The point is: Obama is only being called out as different because of his skin color. By every other standard, he has achieved the American Dream: he came from a lowly economic and social stata, and rose to the peak of success. He is running for the most powerful political position on the planet, and most likely will achieve that goal. His color has nothing to do with it. Except that there are those who will use it because they have nothing else, even though it makes no sense.

I probably went on too long, but I had to respond to ChrisO.

peace,
st john

Posted by: st john on October 29, 2008 at 8:45 PM | PERMALINK

McCain voted for giving our money to someone else..many of whom live in Iraq and Wall Street

Posted by: Jet on October 29, 2008 at 9:31 PM | PERMALINK

Lets not forget socilaist Palin taxing big oil then spreading the wealth to Alaskans...

Posted by: Jet on October 29, 2008 at 9:34 PM | PERMALINK

Lets not forget McCain flying back to DC to solve the financial crisis by spreading the peoples wealth.

Lets not forget that the financial markets depend on the working man and womans wealth, tiny as it is, to save their greedy butts.

Lets not forget it was the socialist wealth of the people that shoulder the costs of the idiots of empire camped out in DC create.

Lets not forget that wealth is hidden in overseas tax shelters robbing the treasury of 100 billion a year.

Posted by: Jet on October 29, 2008 at 9:41 PM | PERMALINK

I have no desire to see McCain be President, but there are actually people who don't think they should be taxed in order to give other people money.

You must have been ecstatic when Bush and Paulson pressured Congress to give $700 billion in free money to investment bankers. I guess that pothole on my street can wait a little longer so the executives at AIG can get a couple million more in their golden parachutes.

Posted by: Mnemosyne on October 29, 2008 at 10:28 PM | PERMALINK

What in the world are you talking about? Nothing I said gives you any idea what I think about the bailout. If you try to actually process what I wrote, instead of just coming up with a knee jerk response, you'll see that I never advocated the attitude I wrote about. My point is that there are people who legitimately feel that way, and although we may disagree with them, it doesn't automatically make them racists.

And St. John, stop trying to read that shit into what I wrote. Is his mother "only American because she is "white". No, she's American because she was born in America. African Americans are people who are of African descent and now live in America. You're trying to change the definition of words to fit your misguided point. The fact is, McCain is making all sorts of ridiculous charges aginst Obama, that he's a socialist, pals around with terrorists, etc. You said the opposition is trying to place an "African-American/ghetto...stereotype" around Obama. Where do you see the McCain campaign portraying Obama as a typical ghetto black man?

Posted by: ChrisO on October 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM | PERMALINK

So that makes McCain Panamanian because he was born in Panama.
got it

Posted by: st john on October 29, 2008 at 11:45 PM | PERMALINK

If you try to actually process what I wrote, instead of just coming up with a knee jerk response, you'll see that I never advocated the attitude I wrote about. My point is that there are people who legitimately feel that way, and although we may disagree with them, it doesn't automatically make them racists.

I don't think they're consciously racist, but I do think that they're falling for a racist meme without realizing what it is.

Next time you talk to someone who's well-meaning but says they're worried about their hard-earned money being given to someone else, ask them what they think that person looks like. The Republicans have set things up in such a way for the past 25 years that the first thing they're going to think of is Reagan's legendary "welfare queen."

I may be drawing a fine line here, but someone can unconsciously absorb a racist meme without going out and burning crosses. In fact, 9 times out of 10, if you can point it out the right way, they're horrified that they were led to think that racist thought without realizing what it was.

We all have racist buttons that can be pushed, but a lot of people are in denial about it, so you get a lot of people saying they're not racist, they just don't want their tax money given to those people without stopping to think about why they automatically assume who the money will go to.

Posted by: Mnemosyne on October 29, 2008 at 11:53 PM | PERMALINK

"I've simply never seen a more offensive, more nauseating, presidential campaign."

Were you watching politics when Nixon ran in 1968 and 1972? It's hard to compare for sure, but Nixon was in the same ballpark as McCain -- or perhaps we should say in the same sewer.

Posted by: david78209 on October 30, 2008 at 12:21 AM | PERMALINK

I've simply never seen a more offensive, more nauseating, presidential campaign.

Just wait until the next one in 2012, which will really disgust you in ways you can't even yet imagine.

In this respect, do the Reeps ever disappoint?

Posted by: Bob Loblaw on October 30, 2008 at 12:40 AM | PERMALINK

The redistribution nonsense is code for: they're going to give your money to the n*****s. Any other interpretation is naive.

Posted by: namvetted on October 30, 2008 at 12:43 AM | PERMALINK

The redistribution nonsense is code for: they're going to give your money to the n*****s. Any other interpretation is naive.

Posted by: namvetted on October 30, 2008 at 12:44 AM | PERMALINK

Mark D wrote:
"He said he was a plumber, but isn't."

He's a plumber. Get over it. He works with the stuff known as plumbing. He works under a license held by his employer. It's legal. Get over it. So he's not a good loyal Union Member and Registered Democrat. Get over it.

"He said he was going to buy a plumbing company, but isn't."

Do you have proof of that?

st john wrote:
""Joe": it is not his "real" name;"

Don't be stupid. What business is it of yours what name he chooses for himself?

""the": he is not THE ONLY ONE;"

Holy Smokes! Can you be more stupid?

""Plumber": he is not licensed as a plumber, anywhere. Yes, he is a total lie."

You are a total moron!

Joe (or Samuel (or Sam)) couldn't be more stupid than you.

Posted by: Grupetti on October 30, 2008 at 2:02 AM | PERMALINK

“”The Southern Strategy, it seems, has come full circle. With any luck, the Republican Party will soon become the party of Southern racists plus the thin national stratum of plutocrats.
Posted by: bleh on October 29, 2008””

Interesting comment made here, my mind flies open with this Southern Character stereo type. There was a time for me that the southern “you awl” type accent was smooth and inviting, it was great to listen to. Now, Bush and Company, especially George has turned that whole concept on its head for me.

Now with this new reality, and hardened with a huge wave of Republican lies, economic profiteering in the free market, secret torture prisons with all the compliments of a mercenary band of bandits unaccountable in this war that make any surge a laughable issue to even consider debating, and war time corruption that hopefully will be addressed and action taken, is so concentrated it appears like the worst kind of mental fear mongering toxic waste physiological electorate cultural screwing that can exist in a human evolution, to me very closely boarding on a mental disorder that has revealed its penetration modern America.

For me, and this applies to many politicals concentrated in the South, in Texas, did with deliberate cause, breached the central vow of oath with America’s affirmation did with cause to profit. Bush and Company knowingly place a huge population carelessly in an agenda that wholly is not only objectionable but breached a wide spectrum of the Constitution that was declared to be defended.

Many times Chris Mathews keeps telling America about the ideal of the Republican label. It’s like bad dog food, so bad it would be taken of the shelf.

Perhaps I didn’t say that correctly, rightly so, for it is worse than bad dog food. These political phenomena have captured what George Bush and the Republican Party don’t represent, that is the majority of America its basic values. Ladies and Gentlemen of America this happening, with all the cockeyed corruption, is not even close to unintended consequences. These realizations of failed leadership are not incompetence but deliberate across the isle; reach out type of bipartisan back stabbing double talk.

These actions from Bush and Company are so counter productive it must be derived from some close physical friendship. A relation ship, that is woven into the very fabric of Americas needs. I submit to you the Bush and Company, as friends with the Arabs have been influenced, with intent to profit using American resources to benefit the Arab Osama Bin Laden Wahabbi plan. Here, Mainstream Media is also woven into this toxic political cultural disaster the Republican Party with intent for personal gain, ignoring the major electorate, more over deceiving the general population with the complicity of the corporate media.


Posted by: Megalomania on October 30, 2008 at 6:17 AM | PERMALINK

He works under a license held by his employer. It's legal. Get over it.

Tell the state of Ohio, which has moved to force him to either get a license or his employer to suspend him until such time as he obtains said license to "get over it."

Posted by: Blue Girl on October 30, 2008 at 7:56 AM | PERMALINK

Joe the Plumber represents a turning point in Mickey C's campaign - its when he jumped the shark with this implausible argument born out of shear desperation.

Barack the President will be the real deal.

Posted by: rick on October 30, 2008 at 8:13 AM | PERMALINK

Has "The Plumber" paid his taxes yet?

Posted by: ckelly on October 30, 2008 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK

Blue Girl, I hadn't heard that...I'm willing to retract what can be proven wrong.

Here's a link if anyone needs it:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008277201_campjoe17.html
"Wurzelbacher said he did not need a plumber's license to do residential work with Newell Heating & Plumbing, but David Golis, a Toledo building-inspections official, disputed that. "We were just discussing that we will send a letter to the owner of Newell reminding him" of the city's requirement that all who do plumbing work be licensed or in apprentice or journeyman programs, Golis said."

Posted by: Grupetti on November 1, 2008 at 1:36 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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