...Pence said social issues like "the sanctity of marriage" will remain the backbone of the Republican platform.

These folks really never learn, do they?

We can hope not, but I don't think we can count on it.

They're in the "denial" stage right now, with some "anger" mixed in. But pretty soon they'll be thinking a little more rationally, and we'll have more to worry about.

In the meantime, I say, encourage them in their denial. Support the frothiest of the frothing. Conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed, and the solution therefore is to return to fundamentals and purge the unorthodox! One truth, one way! Onward culture warriors!

Why would anyone expect the pro-ignorance party to learn anything? The GOP will always be about wealthy elites manipulating working clods through greed and fear. It will never change because it's all they've got.

Well, here is something that might get your cockles up a bit:
Sarah Palin Blamed by the US Secret Service Over Death Threats Against Barack Obama

http://www.truthout.org/110908Y

Couple that with the articles where they say that automatic weapons sales have gone through the roof in the days after the election, and you definitely start saying 'hmmm...'. Nice values those reTHUGS have!

But pretty soon they'll be thinking a little more rationally

There's a first time for everything, I guess. But these are Republicans we're talking about, so I wouldn't bet on it.

I admire them for sticking to their belief in the Sanctity of Losing.

Go GOP!

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

The Mighty Pence has spoken!

"These folks really never learn, do they?"

How can they learn when they have no intllectuals left on their side of the aisle?

As Steve states in an earlier post today:
"it's time to abandon the anti-intellectualism that's come to dominate the party's ideology." and
"Republicans have come to think of reason, evidence, and scholarship as necessarily flawed, to be reviled as an enemy.".

You put those two quotes to real life today, and hopefully by 2012, the Republican Party will be a 20% hard, hard right minority party, even behind those who list themselves as independent.
The Republican party is too entrenched in all that makes it wrong to be able to change. It's the rest of us who have it wrong; only true American, patriotic, xenophobic Repugs see the real truth.

One wish of a conservative world view is keeping things pretty much the same as they have been, accepting change incrementally and slowly, if at all necessary. No intrepids, they.

A little study of Carl Jung's personality Type theory is instructive. Check out "The Portable Jung", edited by Joseph Campbell, or look into the Myers,Briggs Type Indicator(MBTI) based on Jung's work.

People are just trying to be who they are inherently, not trying to make trouble. But since Jung, as manifested in the MBTI, postulated sixteen types, castigating others is unavoidable unless we understand the logic behind behavior.

Also, Steven Pinker's, "The Blank Slate; The Modern Denial of Human Nature", is a fine resource, as is "Please Undertand Me II", by Kiersey and Bates.

To paraphrase a Kiersey and Bates line, 'You can take the teeth out of a lion, but you don't get a domestic cat, you get a really pissed lion.'

The "culture war" issues have never been anything more than a strategy by the tiny, hereditary, ultra-rich corporate kleptocracy -- the "top one percent" whose numbers are far too few to win elections with their own votes -- to gain the votes of weak-minded, ignorant, gullible, easily manipulated dupes by bamboozling them with bullshit into voting against their own economic and political interests.

This election suggests that that strategy isn't working well any more, for two reasons.

First, it depended on high turnout among the rank-and-file "culture war" voters being enough to change the outcome of otherwise close elections in key battleground states. But many of those states were not close enough in this election for the "culture warrior" voters to make a difference. When the broad, "mainstream" electorate goes overwhelmingly Democratic, instead of splitting down the middle, the strategy fails.

Second, the "culture war" voters themselves are not entirely going for it any more. For some of them, economic hardship is overwhelming their so-called "values" issues, and they are choosing to "vote for a Democrat if you want to live like a Republican". And some of them are beginning to realize that the Republican leadership has not done, and never will really do, much of anything to advance their so-called "values" agenda anyway. In short, some of them are starting to realize they've been had.

I expect that the script that many Republicans and their enablers in the corporate media have been reading from since the election -- the one wrapped around the talking point that the USA is a "center-right" nation -- is more indicative of the new phase of propaganda that America's Ultra-Rich Ruling Class, Inc. will rely on to advance its ruthless, rapacious class war against everyone else.

To be "center-right", in their terminology, actually means to vote for, and govern on behalf of, the interests of the ultra-rich corporate aristocracy rather than in the interests of the American people. This strategy for persuading working class voters to vote for the interests of the ultra-rich ruling class actually failed rather spectacularly in the election, with the voters embracing Obama in the face of Palin-McCain's screeching about the evils of "socialism" and "spreading the wealth". But nonetheless it seems to be the approach that the corporate owners of the Republican Party have endorsed as a way of mitigating any progressive agenda that Obama will try to implement.

So I expect to see the rhetoric of this pseudo-pragmatic, "center-right" corporate propaganda supersede the "culture war values" rhetoric -- although some of that will continue, in a more limited and focused way, targeted at specific demographics primarily in the states of the old Confederacy.

Thanks for the post about republicans. It'd been nearly 2 hours since you last talked about them, and they are too important to be so neglected.

the same time-honored principles of limited government, a belief in free markets, in the sanctity of life, the sanctity of marriage," Pence said.

The sanctity of life and marriage are nothing more than a joke. Limited government? You mean like unwarranted wire taps? Medicare part D? When did Pence do a 180 on this? And free markets? That's just code for the demolition of regulations and enforcement of laws that keep citizens safe from lead, asbestos, banking fraud, dirty air and rivers, and immigration. I say we drop Pence off in one of those flea markets in Baghdad, and let him rething the whole thing.

time-honored principles of limited government, a belief in free markets, in the sanctity of life, the sanctity of marriage..

Sounds like a great plan to me. I'd say, let them go at it. It has helped them immensely in the past.

limited government... as in the Bush way of limited government, where it actually grows in size and incompetence.

Free market... as in the Republican way of deregulating the industry and refusing to police what is left of it.

sanctity in life... as in their election cycle interest in abortion, but no other times.

sanctity of marriage... same as above

the voters rejected their ideas in general, but they keep on clinging onto their tenuous victories as prove that we live in a center right society.

The GOP's best hope for an enduring return to power is Democratic failure to manage in tough economic times, followed by a Republican-led search for scapegoats.

Es funktionierte recht gut einmal vor. Leute sind die selben, die sie immer waren.

...pretty soon they'll be thinking a little more rationally....
Posted by: bleh

Impossible! Republican cave-dweller stupidity is too big to fail!!!

When asked by Chris Wallace what "conservative solutions" the GOP would bring to their current minority-party status, Pence said social issues like "the sanctity of marriage" will remain the backbone of the Republican platform.

Conservatives can't let go of these types of issues, because they are their only hope to motivate enough voters to swing elections in their favor. The "real" conservative issues (whatever those are, fiscal conservatism and small government I suppose) just can't muster the enthusiasm to get people to the polls in the numbers they need. Moral superiority is what they have to sell, and there is a huge constituency out there who are buying it, and in fact, "desperately cling" to it just as Barack said. Gay marriage, abortion, jingoism, religion, etc., are the perfect issues to create that false sense of moral superiority; as long as throwing your fellow human beings under the bus is not a problem, and it clearly isn't for the target audience.

And let's hope they continue to not learn, so conservatives continue to leave the party to the radical, irrational right.

How can anyone with half a brain advocate for limited government while advocating using the awesome power of the government to regulate the personal lives of its constituents?

"fiscal responsibility" as well as "effective government" aren't conservative or liberal.

It just happens that progressives are more prone to abide by those rules.

History has shown that the Republican party has no idea what fiscal responsibility entails. Just because they call it fiscal conservative doesn't make it Fiscally Responsible

The same thing with their claim of small government Just because they package it that way for the low info voter, doesn't make small government a better government. ONLY Effective Government is a workable model in the long run. It's just not what Republicans are good at. Republicans 'need' to screw up government to prove to their base that government is bad.

Now, if only the MSM was to start pointing it out.

I am reminded of a theory that an extinction level event caused the demise of the dinosaurs.

The folks who claim to be conservative have seen a massive increase in government, between the new DHS and the massive bailout (TARP...known as Wealthcare...taking care of the wealth of a few at the expense of the many) and the vast military activities.

Folks who claim to "put Country First" have actually believed in a ....government for the rich and nothing but the rich so help us god.

The repugnacans are peopled by Greedy Ol' People, many whom believe that the earth was created AFTER the dinos died! (~6K years ago)

I am enjoying the current extinction level event.

"These folks really never learn, do they?"

Not sure what you mean... Opposing gay marriage is a vote WINNER. Even in California, one of the most liberal states in the US (Obama was leading by >20% out here), they Amended the state Constitution to take away the right of gay people to marry.

It's a polarizing issue - most people have strong opinions about it, already formed. If the Republicans pick "oppose" gay marriage, they are siding the majority of the US population. How is that bad strategy?

Demagoguery, scapegoating, jingoism - those are always going to be winning strategies, as long as humans are voting. And the dumber, the more ignorant and selfish the human, the more effective the strategies are.

Obama could start a war with Iran on Jan. 21, claiming that they are talking smack, or threating us, or gotta defend Israel whatever, and almost every American would cheer.

Most people would tolerate torture of suspected terrorists (as long as you don't call it that).

People don't do things because they believe they are the "right" thing to do. They do them because they think they benefit from them. Jail the greedy investment bankers, and give me money!

If you think that people turning on Bush, and voting for something new is because they came to realize they were wrong, I believe you are mistaken. People just became bored with the war, and Bush. They didn't change their minds.

I think that conservatives are not into self-analysis or applying cause and effect to their beliefs and their implementations. They are so sure of the timeless quality of their beliefs and absolute rightness of their values that adapting and changing and evolving seems to be absolutely impossible. Cognitive dissonance mixed in with the true believer mindset are on display here for all to see except them. Just the way it is I believe.

mickster

I SO want Pence to make those issues his priorities. If the GOP really stays with that program, they're going to lose even more seats in two years. That would be nice.

What a bunch of fucking waterheads. Amazing.

I sometimes wonder if the Party leaders really believe all that culture-war swill, or if they're just cynics, using what they have to get votes.

They all seem so stupid. Are they really that stupid? Is Pence that stupid? Does he really believe in the rightness of those positions? Because if he does, if the party does, they really are doomed.

You do that Mike. You worry about the "sanctity of marriage" while people are trying to fix the damn economy, provide health care to more Americans, get other Americans out of Iraq and the other 200 things that actually affect Americans.

Please, I beg you. Talk about it a lot. Not only will it show everyone what a bunch of irrelevant fucktards you are, but the more you talk about what other people do, the funnier it is when one of your lot is caught playing yanky wanky in the bathroom.

"You build those conservative solutions, Chris, on the same time-honored principles of limited government, a belief in free markets, in the sanctity of life, the sanctity of marriage," Pence said.

Let's see how that's been working out:

Limited government
Bush ignores Congress, unbalances government
Bush spies on Americans
Bush spends $6 trillion dollars on WHAT while country augers in

Free Markets
Repubs unregulates markets
Taxpayers spending $2 trillion to prop up failed banks/companies
Potential next great depression

Sanctity of Life
Millions dead in Iraq
Millions dying in Africa
Thousands dead in Katrina
Millions with no healthcare in America
Millions falling into poverty in America
(Apparently they quite caring once you're born.)

Sanctity of Marriage
Apparently this is a right only for certain couples, not everyone.

Repubs actually acting on what they profess to stand for is OPTIONAL. Call me cynical, but it's pretty obvious to me that the current Republican party is to make the rich a lot richer and f&*k everyone else.

Yay! I think Pence is taking them in the right direction. Now let's hope he'll start pushing the Republican party toward pro-racial purity stances, and then lead them to finally determine which form of Christianity is the *real* Christianity! That's sure to draw all sorts of voters to their pathetic, dying corpse of a party! Go Pence!

The modern GOP has proven itself completely incompetent in handling the economy, managing war & terrorist attacks, handling natural disasters, weeding out corruption, & protecting the enviornment. OF COURSE they're bouncing back to "fetuses flags & f*gs" it's all they have left.

I think, no, I'm sure that my dog's smarter than most of these right-wing Republican idealogues. He got nailed by a porcupine only once and from that point on religiously avoided them eventhough they are a common occurance around our house.

If abortion were outlawed or made so completely out of state control through easily obtained drugs for example -- then the GOP would have NOTHING. They have lost on racism -- now all they have left is homophobia and abortion.

Take abortion off the table and there is no issue to keep the majority of their party from noticing that GOP policies benefit only a handful -- not them.

I come from one of the 4 states that was even redder this time than 2004 -- and while racism is a big part of it -- the identification of religion and 'life' with the GOP is the major driver in the huge numbers of deeply uneducated impoverished rurals in the state. (it is a state where in many rural counties half of today's students don't graduate high school)

Mike Pence is an idiot. I would not listen to anything that comes out of his mouth. He makes me ashamed to be from Indiana.

In the same breath Pence juxtaposes limited government principles with his advocacy of a more intrusive government -- telling people who they can live with and marry.

Governmental intrusiveness, it seems, is anything the GOP wants it to be outside of the intrusive policies the GOP itself advocates.

Culture of life in denial. Poor Pence.
Glomming on to whatever talking points suit them or are available in a pinch.
Culture wars didn't really work for them, just as abstinence only education failed the Palin clan.

"You build those conservative solutions, Chris, on the same time-honored principles of limited government, a belief in free markets, in the sanctity of life, the sanctity of marriage," - Pence said.

Well, unless you have built the most wasteful, big spending & incompetent government in years,continue incursions into sovereign states causing death, and get caught in public bathrooms with your pants down soliciting outside of marriage gay sex.

Are those the time honored principles and solutions Pence is speaking of?

Just asking...

They are not in denial. They know perfectly well their ideology makes them a minority party but they don't care because they believe the cause is more important than the truth. McCain ran just like Bush did in 2000, as a conservative who hadn't drunk the kool-aid. A man who could work on both sides of the aisles. But as we are told reapeatedly, this is a center right country. Their two most successful governors are in California and Florida and you can hardly call them Reaganites but it doesnt matter. The conservatives, will not yield because to do so it means they have failed, the one thing a conservative can never admit to doing. So Obama can expect 4 years of sheer character assasinationm thats all they know how to do.

Let them take a long time thinking, while the country changes beyond their recognition.

Three anti-gay marriage referendums passed, and suddenly, the GOP claims to have a mandate.

Congress is just like an open air market in Baghdad. And the carpets are so... cheap!!!

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/04/pence-baghdad/

PS: Pence, Palin, and Joe the Plumber. Why do they hate the letter "P" ???!!!

I like how the party of limited government is also the party most interested in putting discrimination into the constitution.

Not sure what you mean... Opposing gay marriage is a vote WINNER. Even in California, one of the most liberal states in the US

Opposing gay marriage was a winner for a referendum vote. It did not produce votes for the GOP, which is what the strategy is supposed to produce. So people are now going to vote for their best interest first, and then cave to prejudice second. Plus, the Mormons dropped huge amounts of money into this proposition to just squeak out a win. How many times are they, and their flock, willing to do this. Young people really have no trouble being socially liberal, and they are not the voting block that is rapidly dying off. Remember, conservatives eventually lose every social issue they battle. From slavery, to interracial marriage, to divorce, to birth control, the ERA and yes even abortion. They will lose the gay marriage issue. It may take a few years, but they will lose that.