TWIG returns! Hooray!

Bush said religious belief 'changed my life' and 'sustained me through the challenges and joys of my presidency.'

He forgot to mention that Penance is his favorite metal rock band...

And, while not This Week in God, maybe This Election in God, the New York Times attributes the success of Proposition 8 in California to Mormons::
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/us/politics/15marriage.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

"...Bush said religious belief 'changed my life'."

does that mean that if it weren't for religion, he wouldn't be such an asshole?

With all due respect,Bush was addressing a group at an Interfaith Convention, not addressing the General Assembly at the U.N. I don't believe Bush is a real Christian by any stretch of the imagination (the opposite in fact), so the fact of his continuing hypocrisy is the issue, not who he was addressing here. The other hypocrisy of this meeting, however, is that it was sponsored by King Abdullah of Saudia Arabia. Tolerance of other religions is not exactly practiced in his kingdom.

Benen, it's bloody well time you got TWiG back into the rotation. All you need to do now is resurrect Mightly Morbo the Magnificent, and you'll be back in the catbird's seat for Saturday mornings!

*looks around to see if Morbo's hiding in the audience....

"Bush said religious belief 'changed my life' and 'sustained me through the challenges and joys of my presidency.' - Whatever. Now, go clean some brush and STFU.

They're also doing an atheist bus campaign in London.

Welcome Back, TWIG!

Gee, In the Nietzschean recesses of my mind I thought This Week in God was dead.

Re: the atheist ad campaign: How about some ads that say things like:

"If your God is so puny he can't hear your prayers unless they're delivered over a PA system at a school football game, he's not much of a God, is he?"

or

"Any God who can't hear a prayer from a child in school unless a teacher or someone else is leading it and telling him what to pray isn't worth following."

and others of that type. I somehow ended up on the chain email of a guy from work, and for months received the most bigoted anti-Obama BS you can imagine. I always deleted it, until a few weeks ago when I got the rant about how Christians were being persecuted because they aren't allowed to commandeer public property at school sporting events to broadcast their prayers. I responded by hitting "respond all" and said basically what I said above, and included Christ's admonition about not praying aloud in the street, noting that this constitutes advertisement of piety rather than more meaningful or powerful prayer. Since then, I'm not on the email chain.

Jennifer, what is that verse? I've always meant to keep it handy. My jaw dropped when I read it for the first time. Allah Akbar. God is a great god. So great he doesn't need to advertise (and force it on the unwilling.)

As for Bush explaining how great Christianity has been for his presidency? Not the most ringing endorsement.

The bus ad was ripped to pieces during a segment on CNN Headline News (why do they still call it that? It's more like tabloid news).

As a nonbeliever myself, I think there's a more dignified way to assure the believers that morality, conscience, empathy, generosity, selflessness, integrity and all the other noble human traits do not stem from a morbid and primitive fear of the wrath of some god, but from within ourselves, as they've evolved over the ages. And we still have a long way to go. No truly civilized people would ever wage war, or wreck the planet upon which they live.

It's good to have TWIG back, Steve.

It's great to see TWIG back on the web (it was one of my favorite weekly postings on the Carpetbagger Report).

Reading TWIG's stories of religious extremism reminds me of the solid reporting of hate group activity in the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/intrep.jsp).

Both uncover festering wounds in American society which need to be healed.

toowearyforoutrage - the verse is from Matthew 23.

For those of you interested in learning more about Fr Newman, here's his website.

http://web.mac.com/jayscottnewman/Site/A_Parish_Priest.html

7000 worshipers...

I love the bus ad. Responding to righteous moralizing with more righteous moralizing is less effective than attacking with humor.

"He also suggested faith can transform relations between nations and cultures." He's right - it already has. His faith has transformed a tense situation with Iraq into an invasion and continuing mess. Religion has transformed relatively stable nations throughout history into nations in the midst of civil wars, or exacerbated tensions to tip the nation over into war. Some examples are the Irish Troubles, the Thirty Years war, the Crusades, the French Religious wars, the Muslim Conquests, etc.

So yes, religion can be very transformative, but when mixed with politics the transformation isn't always the one people expected or wanted.

Matthew 23:12

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted"

Yeah, TWIG is back!!!

RE: the bible verse, try this one instead:

Matthew 6:5-7:

5. "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
6. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Bless you, Steve Benen (heh. Sorry...couldn't resist!)

I am thrilled to see TWIG make its official return.

TWIG rises from the dead! Can I get a hallelujah?

Must be a conspiracy. Here's another story touching on the bus ads:

Atheist Billboards To Debut During Holidays

Considering Bush's statement, I can't help thinking that, rather like the Sarkozy-Putin exchange that was reported earlier this week, he'll be used as a cautionary tale by atheist parents:

"Why can't I go to church? The other kids do, and it sounds like fun."

"What, do you want to grow up to be like President Bush?"

"Nooo! I'll be good..."

"Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion."

Hm, I suppose. I wonder if that's more of a problem with people who grew up religious (or at least going to church) and aren't any more. I was raised in the American Secular Holiday tradition (Christmas trees and Easter bunnies, and no mention of the religious aspects), so I've never had a problem with the holiday season.

okay here's my response, looked up addy's. Newman's email is closed and the site sends complaints to the bishop but there's contact info for the bishop and snail mail.

mlaughlin@catholic-doc.org
Rev. Msgr. Martin T. Laughlin
CHANCERY
119 Broad Street
P.O. Box 818
Charleston, SC 29402

Father Jay Newman
St. Mary’s Catholic Church
111 Hampton Ave.
Greenville, South Carolina 29601

Dear Father Newman,

As a lifelong Catholic, with a sister and a sister-in-law both in service, I was shocked to read that you had told voters they should not receive communion if they voted for Obama. This deceptive act, which specifically violates the papal order, jeopardizes the spiritual safety of your parishioners and places them, and yourself, in spiritual danger.

When disheartened Obama supporters, who find themselves disillusioned by your transparent warnings, stop coming to mass at St Mary’s, and stop enrolling their children in your schools, because they aren’t sure anymore what they believe, you will have become the reason they doubt the Catholic Church.

You have threatened the faith of your parishioners, and for that you will always be responsible.

Sincerely

Amy, where are you when we need you?

Bush with his speech writers has always been able to deliver the appropriate message to the audience of the day.

As a Deist type of non-theist, I am conversant enough with history, theology, and sociology to know that Christmas is religiously founded on pre-Christ celebrations of the return of the sun from the nether regions, as Easter is as a metamorphous from the celebrations of Spring. Consequently, I enjoy Christmas, except for the commercialism.

Religious worship is a personal choice for those with the proclivity to accept on faith.

Present day Republicanism is not well suited for the information age; candidates can no longer tell a regional or ideological audience what it wants to hear without it getting reported to the American public. The non-homogeneous nature of the party is best suited to the eighteenth century.

Keep in mind that Greenville, S.C., is also home of Bob Jones University. Didn't realize its yahoo fundamentalism was infecting us Catholics, too.

bushie boy : religious belief 'leads us to common values.'

like hating the other religions...that's where lots of religious belief starts...then esculates to killing the other.....case in point, iraq...perhaps that slipped his mind...

Yay! TWIG is back! Thanks, Steve; I sorely missed it. (How about getting the WaMo to make some changes to bring back the TCBR *tech* quality, too?)

Anyway...

Yesterday, his diocese announced that Newman had gone too far. -- Benen

I wondered how long it would take them to sit on the self-righteous, pontificating moron. What if some of the parishioners got ticked off, said "take your excommunication and shove it", then left the Church entirely? Where would the money come from to pay off for all the pedophilia suits?

Vis the bus ad... It doesn't matter that some of them will get destroyed. What made me laugh till I cried was the text: "be good for goodness sake". Even if the ad is no more, everyone who'd ever seen it will remember it *every time* they hear "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town" on the radio or in the stores.

And they'll be hearing it a lot, since, this year, the stores didn't wait for Thanksgiving before introducing the Christmas shopping season. Due to the bad economy, our ears are *already* being tickled with Jingle Bells and, yes, Santa Claus Is Coming to Town (so be good, for for goodness sake!)...

What, exactly were the joys of George Bushes' presidency? Is it a long list?

If you want to avoid controversy, just speak entirely in platitudes, you know like if you were running for Vice President or something.

The nuns need to assign Fr. Newman to writing on the chalkboard 100 times: "He who is without sin - let him cast the first stone."

On the other hand, maybe it's time for some good old fashioned schism. For the next year, only those American Catholics who accept the entire body of Church teachings should contribute their money. This includes abortion, birth control, and the role of women. No good pretending that your tithe is going to pay for the good Church stuff. No good pretending the Church is really making progress.

TWIG is wonderful. Looking forward to next Saturday.

Good to see TWIG return. Always enjoyed that section on The carpetbagger.
It's great that DC buses are carrying that message as it predates organized religious doctrine.
The "holidays" fall at the time of the winter solstice when the 'sun' dies and then rises again on the third day; a time when summers harvest is all packed away and winter begun; a time for pagan celebrations at the beginning of winter...which has all now been transferred over to the "holidays" season. "Be good for goodness sake" is 'simply' marvelous.

That "blackmail for political reasons" priest was so ridiculous he should not be allowed to speak from the pulpit without a censor. No one is "pro abortion" and abortions decrease under dem presidents as they actually "do" something to prevent unwanted pregnancies and increase alternatives access while making choices safe, legal and RARE. Republicans do nothing but bitch. This ignorant priest obviously missed the video of McCain (and one of his wife also) saying they are not against abortions but that it should be left up to the states to decide.
Will the priest now state that his parishioners CAN receive communion...but only in certain states.

All I can say to him is "yeah, well Jim Jones said he talked for God also and had another remedy for salvation. Apparently, God let him talk too."

Should tax exempt status for Fr. Laughlin's Parish be reviewed?

Catholic Religion was explaining things long before the advent of science and have had to adjust every since it's inception. This priest doesn't understand how a majority of Americans do not equate a fertilized egg with a newborn baby. In his mind is a picture of a full term baby crying as it's being aborted. Late term abortions are extremely rare and done only when the health of the mother is in jeopardy. Just as many abortions before R v W as after or as McCain would say blah blah blah.
Religion seems to relieve believers of the need to think and give them a guarantee of not being tortured after death. A faith through fear of punishment which has all been figured out for the believers so they don't have to be bothered with thinking it out. The more fear is generated the stronger the fanaticism.
Suffice it to say that for many people it is..."If I were God I could come up with a better plan than this." So somewhere, someone somehow got something wrong.

Now there is this priest who is still resentful that the "Inquisition" is no longer in practice...really, equating salvation with voting propaganda. Just pathetic.

Posted by: Shrink in SF on November 15, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Thanks Shrink for the contact info. I will snail mail my response to this priest's actions with McCain's stand on this issue also so he will see just how hypocritical his partisan remarks are.

He doesn't represent thinking Catholics that's for sure. Would he rather have thousands of Middle East children slaughtered so fertilized eggs might be saved?? I wonder.

The bus ad sounds antagonistic to my agnostic ears.

There are better ways to encourage goodness than to put down others' beliefs.

It needn't be a right/wrong thing.

I don't like it. It feels like the stories are gathered together for the purpose of sneering at religious people. Just post the stories that are interesting or relevant as they come up instead.

Newman's church needs to lose it's tax-exempt status NOW--I can't believe he exploited separation of Church and State so blatantly.

I'd be interested to know what Richard John Neuhaus would say about the priest who refused the Eucharist to those who voted for President-Elect Obama...because, regardless of what his diocese says, he was, in fact, within his bounds of what is appropriate, ecclesially. The fact of the matter is that Catholics take a strong stand about abortion. Dogma is important in that tradition.

I wish that they would stand firm in the face of the mainstream media about that very point, instead of caving to the liberal illuminati. But the case may not be done, yet; I wouldn't be surprised to hear a Cardinal make a statement at some point.

Gippergal, Catholic teaching about abortion went through several changes until it became fixed in 1869 under Pope Pius IX. Both St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas did not see it as a mortal sin in the first three months, "the law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.’" Similarly, Thomas Aquinas argued that "ensoulment" did not occur until about 3 months, when the fetus 'quickens'.

And if you're going to argue that Newman should deny communion according to dogma, then he should deny it to adulterers as well, surely?

And if you're going to argue that Newman should deny communion according to dogma, then he should deny it to adulterers as well, surely?

Posted by: EL on November 15, 2008 at 7:28 PM

Not to mention McCain backers, since the GOP is an ardent supporter of capital punishment (which most Catholic officials oppose).

Just wanted to second crispinpierce's comment... I had feared TWIG had been permanently pruned, and I welcome its return!

"...Catholics take a strong stand against abortion".

I'm curious about how far this "stand" goes: does the Catholic Church want to see a 13-year-old girl who gets an abortion because she got pregnant as a result of being raped by her father at knifepoint go to the slammer for the act? If the answer to this is no, then why not (since the CC seems to regard all abortions, even those that occur in the first trimester, as first-degree murder)?

TWIG is back. I missed it. Hope it stays.

By the way, as sort of a follow-up to my earlier post, if any supposed "pro-life" person (well, on the abortion issue, anyway) doesn't believe that a woman/girl who has the procedure should be criminally punished in any way, then that person is not "pro-life" but rather "half pro-choice".