The recent blaring of headlines on Drudge about Iran having enough nuke material for a bomb are phony. When you read carefully, you find they have enough fuel-grade U to make a bomb *if* they put it through the extra centrifuge steps - which they haven't, and who knows what their intentions or accessory arrangements are? Even then, they may or may not have the tech savvy to get a bomb to work right and be effectively delivered. So I wonder what is going on with all that ...

And Bill McInturff, the McCain campaign's chief pollster thinks Frank Luntz is a "moron," adding, "I would like to take a hammer and start breaking bones in Frank's arms."

Heh

The Minnesota ballot bit was interesting. It would be interesting to see if the final decision on those ballots matches the majority of votes on the website.

* Chicago businesswoman Penny Pritzker, national campaign finance chairwoman for the Obama campaign, has withdrawn from consideration and will not be the next Secretary of Commerce.

"She was not vetted."

WTF? I thought everyone had to fill out that big nasty 'ol questionnaire?

When the hell is Hillary going to make up her mind?

It sounds like Obama has made many concessions--allowing the past endorsements for Clinton to rest and only asking that he stop them here on in...

It just seems to be political theatrics at this juncture, a power play of sorts--

I suppose it's likely she truly is ambivalent, but it seems more than that.

* And Bill McInturff, the McCain campaign's chief pollster thinks Frank Luntz is a "moron," adding, "I would like to take a hammer and start breaking bones in Frank's arms." Tell us how you really feel, Bill.

Reputhug Party, meet the wilderness. Wilderness, meet the Rethug Party.

Ah, Dana Perino. Wonder what kind of atomic strength mouthwash she uses when she gets home after work?
Soon headed the same was as Nancy Pafoootenhaaauuuueeer, who must still be making amends for all the nonsense she had to spout on behalf of the McCain Campaign Trainwreck.

And the markets? They're in free-fall now.

* I don't think Dana Perino understands what the Endangered Species Act is.

What a fucking moron. She may take the prize as the worst White House spokesperson in my life time, which is saying a lot on the ass end of the Bush presidency and considering who has preceded her.

"Heck of a job there, Dana."

I'm no economist, but with the unemployment rate what it is and climbing, the deficit what it is and climbing and now the deflation of some consumer goods--sure looks like the big D to me...

In any case, it sure ain't pretty.

Thanks goodness we have Obama and his team to try to do what they can...

Democratic leaders in Congress are open to a rescue plan for U.S. automakers, but they're looking for a coherent plan first...

Right, they only want what they got from the banks.

Oh, they didn't get a plan from the banks.

Well, at least they gave all of those bankers a good lecturing about mismanagement and using private planes like they did the auto CEOs.

Oh, they didn't?

Well, them I'm perplexed. Why did everyone, including the presidential candidates, bend over backwards to give the banking industry $700 billion with no strings, but they won't give the auto industry a $25 billion loan?

I'm not a big fan of bailouts to begin with, but damn, congress, how about some consistency?

"Wall Street slumped [again] Thursday afternoon..."

It is rapidly approaching a 50% loss for the year.
Hmmm... isn't this 'Great Depression' territory?

Gotta do a bit of googling and find out.

I wouldn't start considering Al-Quada on the wain, nor do I think the 'house negro' comment was necessarily out of ignorance or just plain racism. They've shown themselves to be pretty clever (true, the bungling Bu$haroos aren't necessarily worthy opponents).
I think it was a calculated attempt to start some internal strife here in the states among blacks and disaffected whites (see red state morons). I'm sure they watched the election with very much interest, and witnessed the old south showing their true colors.

It's true colors that is...

>"... to give the banking industry $700 billion with no strings, but they won't give the auto industry a $25 billion loan?"

In theory: Because the daily credit market [money market] had frozen up solid. The huge money injection was (remember, this is in theory) to free up capital for desperately needed loans.

In practice: The huge money injection seems to be going a bit er... 'astray'.

Josh Marshall wants a new term to replace Golden Parachutes given to CEOs whose company gets a bailout.

My idea: golden diaper.

Reasoning: diapers start out clean and serve a clear purpose. They end up dirty, smelly and leave a mess for the adults to clean up.

I also remember a cartoon image where storks would deliver babies, carried by diaper and dropped into their future parents.

Not sure what the "golden" part implies, maybe "asbestos diaper" would be better and reflect the Roman custom of making napkins out of asbestos so that they are easy to purify by fire.

I fail to see why this market tumble is "scary".

A bunch of fake "value" is disappearing and we're returning to something resembling the intrinsic worth of companies with the bogus ones being washed away.

Yes, a lot of people are getting hurt and a lot more will but it's better than continuing the Ponzi scheme we've been running for the last 20 or so years.

I tend to agree with Steve, but staring at a 30% decline of living standards is scary. Living standards were inflated by the schemers and must fall to reflect the actual productive capacity of the country, but it is the poor and lower middle classes who will go hungry. No mainstream politicians mentioned that during the election campaigns.

"Floating face down in the mainstream."
Outkast

I think it was a calculated attempt to start some internal strife here in the states among blacks and disaffected whites (see red state morons).

Citizen Pain - I'm not sure exactly how that works. If anything, it'd seem to me that it'd just make these two groups bond alittle, having a common enemy. Particularly with the disaffected whites, who are always looking for the latest excuse to claim victimhood. There's no better way to gain their undying support than for them to perceive that someone in their group is being attacked by outsiders.

No, if Al Qaeda wanted to do this properly, they'd have expressed joy with Obama's victory, proclaiming him to be a secret Muslim who was going to help them out by withdrawing troops from Iraq. That'd really get the Red Staters up in arms and make things more difficult for an Iraq withdraw. Instead, they opted for a direct taunt of Obama, perhaps hoping that he'd get mad and want to attack them. They clearly don't understand the guy very well.

Shhhh!!! Dr. Biobrain, don't give them ideas!

Michelle Bachman said that reports of her calling for an investigation of Congress to find out who's "really American" are an "urban legend," in spite of the existing video of her saying it. "Crooks and Liars" says she should be considered an urban legend, but unfortunately she's real. Not living close to reality, but existing nevertheless. Obama elected president, so everyone is afraid to say "Merry Christmas" to each other, so the economy collapeses, so hello Mad Max? Seems to be a lot of that going around on the right.

McInturff, the GOP pollster, takes a swipe at Luntz because supposedly Luntz poked fun at McCain for not being able to use a blackberry, McInturff responds that he'd "like to take a hammer and start breaking bones in Frank's arms", presumably so Luntz would know what it's like to have problems using modern tools such as PDAs.

Funny thing, it's B.S. McCain can use a cellphone just fine, so why not a hand-held?

It's not because of McCain's tiny, vestigial, dinosaur arms that he's unable to use modern technology, it's because of his tiny, vestigial, dinosaur brain

Markets behave irrationally as much as rationally, and always unpredictably, and are inherently speculative. In the short term, you are always betting on market dynamics - how traders and gamblers will behave - as well as the underlying corporations or commodities. No one should be in for the short term unless that's their intention - to gamble, to trade.

I don't have the current figures, but it's always instructive to look at price/earnings ratios and to compare them to long term trends, and market extremes. On the commodities side, it's a good idea to look at what it costs to produce a barrel of crude, for example, to get an idea of how much speculation or manipulation is built into the price. Or houses, for that matter.

I really don't like how the media is hyping this crisis. They are fanning the flames of fear and hysteria, just as they did in the run up to the invasion of Iraq. I've been around a long time, and I've never seen anything like this. Roosevelt was right - if you scare the bejesus out of the people, they'll react individually to protect themselves, which collectively could literally turn a recession into a depression.

In my opinion, the media is being irresponsible. So far, technically, we don't even have a recession, and unemployment, while elevated at 6.5%, is nowhere near historic highs. But if they continue scaring the hell out of everyone, that will change the situation.

@Buford 6:06 PM:

We are not in Great Depression territory, but we are well past any other comparisons in the U.S. Stock Markets.

After the Crash of 1929, it took about 2.5 years for the DJIA to reach its low point of about 10% of the pre-crash record. It then took until 1954 for the inflation adjust value of the DJIA to match that pre-crash record.

Today's DJIA close of 7552 is slightly higher than at the nadir of the 2002 bear market, but is also the mark the average passed on the way up all the way back in 2008. In inflation adjusted values, today's close is the lowest since early 2006.

My last post should finish:

"In inflation adjusted values, today's close is the lowest since early 1996."

Regarding McInturff...the same old song.

"If it weren't for the economy and the bailout, we would've won this thing!"

That's like saying, "If only reality hadn't happened, we would've won this thing".

Word to Republicans: The market didn't screw McCain.

McCain screwed McCain.

McCain was the one who stated he wasn't well-versed on the economy.

It was McCain's economic advisor who said "America was a nation of whiners".

McCain was the one who in the face of bank closures said the economy was fundamentally strong.

McCain was the one who authorized pulling the "suspend my campaign" stunt.

McCain was given an opportunity to demonstrate how he could lead during a crisis, and HE FAILED. It was the same test posed to Obama, who decided to keep a cool head.

Don't blame the test. Blame your own poor response to the test.

very good post by hark at 7:32. i've been feeling the same way, but he put it into words that i couldn't manage.

just another sign as to how stupid and irresponsible the media has become.

orange

A few of those ballots should have been spit out as overvotes, like the one with both Al's and Norm's circles filled in.

I worked the election here with optical scanners, and that one would not have gotten through our machines.

Or the poll workers were either poorly trained or not doing their job in explaining to over-voters that their vote won't count in that race (the machine tells you where the over-vote was) unless they start with a new ballot.

The machine spits out undervotes too, and again the poll workers should confirm that the voter intended NOT to vote in that race. If they DID intend to vote in that race, they can take the ballot back and mark.

The machine WILL NOT take an overvote, but there is a slot in the bottom into which a ballot can be placed for later manual tablulation (as are provisional ballots). Poll workers should not be putting over-vote ballots in that slot.

Now if the overvote was on an absentee ballot, there's no machine that can fix that.

So far, technically, we don't even have a recession

Since, by the usual technical definition, you can never know you are in a recession until several months after it begins, we actually don't know whether or not we are presently in what will technically, in retrospect, be a recession, though certainly all the indicators are that we are, and that it is likely to be a severe one, barring unforeseen circumstances.

The media pretending that everything is good won't really address the fundamental problems.

* Minnesota Public Radio posted a terrific feature showing examples of contested ballots in the Coleman-Franken Senate race. -- Benen

So, I put on my non-partisan hat (the one decorated with both an angel wing and a devil's horn on each side) and took the poll. Was pleasantly surprised to see that all others who took it were equally honest -- I voted with the majority in all but one case (and thought that some of the challenges -- on both sides -- were frivolous). Agree with Michael W, @17:38, I'd love to see how those cases were, in fact, resolved...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"She [Pritzker] was not vetted."

WTF? I thought everyone had to fill out that big nasty 'ol questionnaire? -- Jeff II, @17:40

Only if you're actually applying for a job; not if you withdraw, knowing, ahead of time, your nomination is going to raise a perfect s..t storm of objections. Hat off to her for not forcing Obama to choose between humiliating her or being humiliated himself. I expect she can be used somewhere else, where she's less visible.

"How scary is this..." Not as scary as Paulson being in charge of $700 billion with lip service for oversight and deciding he needed to go to a new plan. Incredibly enough, Paulson believes today's financial catastrophe is a "once or twice in a hundred years" event that occurs at random -a series of unforeseen unfortuitous misfortunate happenstances out of the control of mere mortals - rather than a direct result of de-regulation, opaqueness and zero oversight.

I worked the election here with optical scanners, and that one would not have gotten through our machines.

I was a bit annoyed that when I voted here in LA County, they had the machine that you could run your ballot through to make sure it was readable, but they didn't actually use it for some reason. The girl just took my ballot and put it in a stack -- to be scanned later when it wouldn't do any good since the voter was long gone?

It was very unnerving.

'Until they show us a plan we cannot show them the money.'"

"Show me the money!!" That's some real-live Red State retail politickin' there, yessiree!!

Too bad it came out of the mouth of Nancy Pelosi. Where are the serious, adult leaders of Congress when you really need them?

The US is now going hat in hand to the Gulf States begging for money:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081120/bs_afp/financeeconomyusgulf_081120072928

Why is the US government going to the Arabs oil dealers to get permission to float another $500 billion loan?

If we have reached this point, then we are truly at a federal government crisis, for otherwise, the federal government could simply go to the public markets to get another $500 billion loan.

Also, if we have to get Arab permission to float a loan, then what kind of productivity increase will the Arabs expect from the UAW?

Too many individual postings to try and give individually, but there's a fascinating story unfolding on:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/
(skip the first one and just keep going through several earlier ones) on how the bailout money is being Whittled away...

""...had failed to convince Congress that they had developed a viable plan for the $25 million they are requesting in bailout funds."

Nitpick - change to read $25 billion...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/20/sarah-palin-holds-news-co_n_145375.html

Man of Man -- Sarah Palin does it again. What is so chilling and at the same time humorous is how what is happening in the background relates to the perspecitive that she is giving in the interview. Honestly, you can't make this up

" I don't think Dana Perino understands what the Endangered Species Act is."

Add this to the list of many subjects that Ms. Perino doesn't understand. It goes somewhere way below the Cuban missle crisis.

The thing about Dana is that she is just another Sarah Palin type, only not so creepy. She gives blondes a bad name.