Obama should apply for membership in this Forest Lake club. That would give this sort of thing the attention it deserves.

I had no idea such places still existed. I thought even with private clubs that was determined to be illegal, no? Or is it state to state?

Freakin' bizzare, in any case. I can't imagine a business associate telling me that they belonged to a whites only club. I would laugh in someone's face if they said that, thinking it was an absurd joke.

Disinterested means fair or unbiased. It does NOT mean uninterested or lacking interest. thanks.

Like winner, I'm surprised to learn that explicitly whites-only clubs still exist.

Oh yeah, whites only clubs, very bad.

Men only clubs, tho, that's fine, fine.

Southern strategy comes home to roost.

I like Aaron's idea.
I guess if there is a state in the country that would still do something like this, it would be SC. That state could really stand to learn a few things from the 49 states that are now in the 21st century.
However, I sure hope that guy becomes the face of the republican party and gets the RNC Chair. That would be priceless.

It must bug the crap out of the people who join these clubs that the best golfer in the world is black.

I was reading along, ho hum, yeah this stuff still goes on out there, and it's not surprising that a big Republican cheese is a member of one of those....

And then I read the last sentence.

Bang.

There are gonna be a lot of those moments going forward--sharp illustrations of the absurdity that still goes on in this country.

The Best Golfer in the World is of mixed race, as is the President-Elect of the United States of America. As are, I venture to guess, most of the people who reside in this country. Define race, please. Is it skin color? What shade of skin color? Is an albino of African 'blood' Black? I just met such a one yesterday. First Language? Tribe of origin? Religion? Continent of origin? Country of birth? How many generations separate us from our racial roots?

When you are admitted to a hospital for surgery and require a blood transfusion, what is more important? The race of the donor/recipient or the matching of blood type and other factors of compatibility? I don't think race is one of the matching criteria unless the recipient is unwilling to accept blood from a certain race. That is a personal, not a scientific distinction. Some people would rather die than allow blood from another into their system. That is fine. It is their choice and they are entitled to that choice. But, they are not entitled to impose it on another.

Just some thoughts for discussion.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

I had no idea such places still existed. I thought even with private clubs that was determined to be illegal, no? Or is it state to state?

As opposed to public accomodations like restaurants and hotels, most country clubs are organized as private clubs and retain the ability to choose their own members. Right of free association and all. In a better world, membership in restrictive clubs like this one or Augusta National (no women) would be about as respectable as membership in a dogfighting club, but we're not there yet.

Some jurisdictions discourage this kind of things by withholding certain priveleges like liquor licences from restricted clubs. One of the big time country clubs in suburban MD is male-only and pays a huge price in real estate taxes due to the withholding of a preferential rate available to other golf courses for preserving open space. Worth it to them, I guess.

Ms. Nelson seems shocked -- SHOCKED! -- that the GOP isn't serious about minority outreach. Has Captain Renault been holding back her share of the casino rake-off?

little did Ms. Nelson know that she WAS the Republican Party's example of outreach! Oh noes, teh irony!

St. John, your point is valid. However, in the context of mebership club that is actually "whites only", "mixed race" is a difference without a distinction. As far as they're concerned Tiger Woods and Barrack Obama are black, or as thay say in their locker room, niggers.

Winkandanod, thanks for the acknowledgement. I still ask the question: how is race defined? How does one prove one's "whiteness" when applying? Many of us have various "shades of color" in our heritage which are not obvious. And, many of us don't even know that we have "color" in that heritage. I guess we would not be applying for such a club, anyway. But, if I were an avid golfer and could afford such a membership, would I have to demonstrate my racial qualification? How would I do that?

Again, just some questions for discussion. I don't see how this topic could withstand much critical analysis.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

Does anyone think that Katon Dawson actually quit this club, except in a PR sort of way?

Ms. Nelson needs to go swap stories about self-delusion with the Log Cabin Republicans.

st john -

IIRC the tradition in the South had been that anyone who had at leat one great-grandparent who was black would be considered black.

The bigots in places like this don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. If someone tells the admissions committee that you are not-white, or not-Christian or offers some other claim that show that you don't fit into their small-minded view of who should run what and who can be part of what in the world is all they generally need.

I don't know what Katen Dawson is upset about. If he watched the Republican convention he had to know that the Republican party is an almost all white party with a few PR inspired tokens.

There is a reason the Republican party seems about to drift into the long sleep. They haven't noticed that the world has changed since Nixon's "Southern Strategy" was a winning strategy.

@ William on November 24, 2008 at 2:36 PM

Unfortunately, some dictionaries have dumbed it down so people who misuse disinterested can claim to be correct too.

Amusing to watch the death throes of the RNC. Perfect pick for them to help them achieve their "over the cliff with the rest of the lemmings" strategy. Remember Mel Martinez, the RNC chief for the last couple of years? He was a good "ethnic pick," except that the only minorities he ever represented or stood up for were Cubans, mostly like those whose (wealthy) families had immigrated from Cuba during the Revolution there. Other Hispanics....not so much. And those trying to escape from Haiti...no sympathy or understanding from good old "Hispanic" Mel.

I still don't understand why any minority member, black, hispanic, asian or gay, would EVER be a Republican.

The Best Golfer in the World is of mixed race, as is the President-Elect of the United States of America. -- st john, @15:02

Well then, maybe they could be members on alternate weeks/months/years?

IIRC the tradition in the South had been that anyone who had at leat one great-grandparent who was black would be considered black. -- freelunch, @15:34

Very generous; Hitler counted back to the fifth generation, when it came to Jews...

I don't know what discriminations our country club has written into its charter but, having gone there to dinner once (35yrs ago), I agitated for my husband drop his membershio there, which he did. My stepkids hated me for it, because it meant that they were, basically, reduced to the city swimming pool, but, tough titty; one either has principles or not.

hello st john...when it comes to "black"..there is the "one drop" rule..

an excellent essay on the subject can be found in "Sellout : the politics of racial betrayal"
by Randall Kennedy...

way back in the day...groucho marx joked about being a member of a club that wouldn't let jews use the swimming pool... he asked. "since my daughter is only half-jewish, can she go in up to her waist??...."

I like Barry Goldwater's approach when he was told that he could not play golf at a country club that excluded Jews: "I'm only half Jewish, can I play nine holes?"

St. John, how does one define families? Is it the color of hair, the shape of the nose?

What you're engaging in is sophistry. Like the Sophists who claimed there was no difference between a man with a whole head of hair and one who is bald you're trading on the fact that any given characteristic is a continuum. Just like there is a continuum of shades from white to grey to black. But that doesn't mean that white is the same color is black.

As someone who is black I object to your attempt to annihilate my being. My ancestry is traces back more directly to Africa than it does to Europe even though I have no doubt I have white ancestors. And part of my identity is my racial identity, what is wrong with that?

Are you saying being a member of a different family of humanity is somehow inferior because we can acknowledge that some members of humans are more directly genetically related than others? That's a bizarre and self-deprecating ideology and I will have no part of it.

Black is beautiful baby. Say it out loud, I'm black and I'm proud.

Groucho also said he wouldn't want to join a club that would have him as a member.

I guess Lieberman was right!

Obama is a Marxist!

We just didn't realize WHICH he was referring to!

The GOP has a sign on its dick that reads, "Step Here".

Given that he was a member for 12 years, he either wasn't working very hard or he wasn't especially effective in his arguments.

Now that's the kind of person that should lead the Rethuglicans. May he be just as successful at getting them elected.

South Carolina: dragging America down since 1714. Too bad we didn't ethnically cleanse the place 145 years ago when we had the chance. Burning it down back then obviously didn't work.

"Everybody's sick of your whining."--Daryl Gates

Is it me or is Ms. Nelson stunning naive? John McCain didn't just "concede the black vote" he got himself a VP candidate who went out of her way to court the white-sheet wearing crowd. Republicans biggest base are the inheritors of the Dixicrat party.

Her "It didn't have to be this way" was sort of sad I think on some level she understands that while Mehlman's efforts may have been sincere (for the sake of argument I will say that), that was only him. Just because he was head of the RNC didn't mean that rank and file thought this was a good thing.

I think she understand that her reasons for joining the GOP are no longer really part of the party. The guys running the party in 1988 are gone and frankly I am not sure they are welcome in the current incarnation of the GOP. However I still think there is a bit of denial going on and sweetheart needs to get a wiff of reality. Until the GOP dumps the Dixicrat tendencies blacks will never trust the GOP.