I wish the Krug-man would talk about direct and immediate assistance to the states, which would be powerful and quick, in terms of stimulus.

Bush's "ranch" in Crawford really was just a campaign prop

Yeah, but how appropriate that his "symbolic" home was represented by a dilapidated old wood shed. I realize there was actually a house of some kind there, but the media always focused on the shed, especially when Cindy Sheehan was there. My other favorite scene from Crawford was from 2001 when Bush was telling us that after much reflection he wasn't going to fund much stem cell research. Behind him was a window at dusk, with bats flying around outside. And wasn't it there that Bush tiptoed through the bluebonnets hand in hand with King Faud of Saudi Arabia?

Steve Benen wrote: "If major media outlets would stop misleading the public, it'd be really helpful."

It wouldn't be "helpful" to the handful of giant corporations that own and control virtually all of America's "major media outlets" -- who quite deliberately and consistently use those major media outlets to "mislead the public" in furtherance of the ultra-rich corporate oligarchy's ruthless, rapacious class warfare against everyone else.

If you watch, listen to, or read the corporate media, what you are going to get is corporate propaganda designed to brainwash you into supporting the corporate agenda -- and into being a mindless, obedient worker and consumer.

To expect anything else ("journalism"? Please!) is silly.

You know, I get the argument that auto workers are not making $70+ an hour in wages and benefits and do not doubt that the Heritage Foundation is full of liars. But those criticizing this figure aren't doing their argument any favors by refusing to say what the workers ARE making. I've seen article after article disputing that $70 figure but not a single one says what the actual hourly costs are for current (i.e., excluding retired) workers. Clearly, it is greater than $28 per hour and less than around $69 an hour (apparently taking into account recent concessions by the unions), but what is it? Are they making $48 an hour like their "Japanese" counterparts? Only $40? $60? $55? What is it? Somebody say . . . .

"The secret Senate hold against Neil Barofsky to be inspector general for the bailout has been lifted."

The best way to flush out a cockroach is to shine a bright light at it. If we keep up the pressure to reveal the perp each time it happens, maybe they won't do it as much. Nice thought, anyway.

Help real electoral change in Louisiana's Second District.

Malik Rahim is running for Congress in Louisiana's Second District against incumbent William Jefferson, he of Ben Franklins in his Congressional refrigerator. You can learn more about Rahim here and contribute to his campaign here.

Because the MSM, AND, mainstream liberal(?) blogs may not let you know.

Re Canada:

Damn, I wish we had parliamentary government here. We might actually get some third party seats in Congress.

Read "The Frozen Republic" for the best argument for parliamentary government here in the U.S.

Stickings still a bit behind the curve on analyzing what's happening in Ottawa.

Lib support for dissolving government is starting to weaken in spots, for example.

And, while rightly noting how Conservatives are playing the "separatist" card, he ignores that many rank-and-file Lib voters are wary of the Bloc.

(I've got several friends and acquaintances in Canada, including Anglophones in Quebec.)

It seems like the only reasonable thing to do with the Big 3 is a pre-packaged bankruptcy where the US Government provides financing which is no longer available. This brings everyone to the table and the process is managed by a judge. The chances of everyone getting equally screwed go up under such a situation, whereas a bailout is guaranteed to screw taxpayers. We may still get screwed in the end, but I'd prefer it comes after the shareholders and management.

re: Big 3 - as was pointed out last night on hardball - GM is worth about 3bn - why would we pay more for it?

re: The Crawford Campaign Prop - explains why the only thing Bush could think of to do was 'clear brush' - he know diddly about ranching, horses, cows, crops, whatever.

Is the Bush house in Dallas for double occupancy?

Where are the financial services industry CEOs who will agree to work for $1/yr?? Why didn't those CEOs have to go before congress and explain their plans for bailout money. The Treasurer went to them, to their offices, asking what they needed. The auto makers are a much bigger enterprise for all who it will affect and these idiots confusing hourly "wage" with hourly employee "costs" which includes retirees benefits. What stupidity and what dishonesty to try to confuse the public to make it look like unionized workers are the problem.

It's a complete double standard being applied to the auto makers and the financial services industry. These idiots need to be taught to learn the difference between hourly employee "wages" and hourly employee "costs". Until they do...STFU...you don't know what you're talking about.

The financial services bailout is primarily about protecting the holdings of the wealthy and millionaires, whereas the bailout of the big three auto makers is about millions of jobs and saving the working class...(less than $250k/yr...far less). The auto makers cannot be allowed to fail...but we must change them drastically. Regardless of all the greedy people involved...Obama knows this.

re current auto workers...the number i've seen is $43 an hour: current wages/current benefits...

one of the tabloids predicted on the cover awhile back that laura would live in crawford "over my dead body"..it doesn't google yet but i'll keep at it...

i looked at the survey again...and the two questions that get me...which is your dominant hand? and something about using a segway...
does anybody even own one of those things? how is this info possibly relevant to potential benen advertisers? the mind boggles...

i do buy beeploads of music cds and said so, hope that'll help...

Wait, I don't understand, what is the link for the ranch being just a prop? They're buying a house in Dallas, but where was the analysis for the ranch being a prop? Or is there a long term belief about this I don't understand?

[...] it appears the First Couple have bought a Dallas home where they'll live after Obama's inauguration. -- Steve Benen

That's as maybe. I wouldn't be surprised if he crawls back to Crawford and she gets the Dallas house (houses? Apparently, there's a somewhat smaller property next door involved in those mystery purchases, also) in her divorce settlement.

Because the MSM, AND, mainstream liberal(?) blogs may not let you know. -- SocraticGadfly, @ 17:58

What about LA-04? Because that pseudo-liberal meanie Benen won't write anything about *that* run-off, either, even though it's on the same day, but I don't see you Xanthippe-nagging about it...

* If current trends continue, by 2010, "several" cities will not have a daily newspaper.

I know it's nothing but a fantasy, but I hope that this isn't the death of printed news but a natural cleansing of the "industry" in the same way a forest renews itself with fire. Frankly, the sooner rag-producing, profit-maximizing megacorps like Tribune go under, the better. Ideally, that will create a vacuum for smaller organizations with a greater investment in journalism to crop up and publish something of real value to their communities.

* Another rough day on Wall Street, with the Dow falling another 215 points (2.5%). The other major indexes fared even worse, with the S&P falling 2.9% and the Nasdaq dropping 3.1%.

And in other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

I wish the Krug-man would talk about direct and immediate assistance to the states, which would be powerful and quick, in terms of stimulus.

I don't think that's necessarily true; what it would do, though, is act to prevent counterproductive action by the states in the form of massive spending cuts or tax increases to meet Constitutional mandates for balanced budgets.

Without it, any stimulus (likely slow) that the federal government does is going to be offset in the short-term by powerful and quick contrary actiosn by the states as they move to balance budgets in the face of declining revenues.

Damn, I wish we had parliamentary government here. We might actually get some third party seats in Congress.

Parliamentary government wouldn't make third-party seats in Congress. Having strong regional issues that swamp national issues (something like Quebec separatism) or having multimember legislative districts (which are orthogonal to parliamentary government) would do that.

Without either of those factors, parliamentary government would increase the incentive to vote for members of the major parties in Congressional elections, which is already so strong that you don't often seen anyone elected to Congress any other way -- other than Bernie Sanders, and the occasional incumbent who separates from his party.

Good discussion of the institutional issues in the Canadian developments for those unfamiliar with a parliamentary system of gov't.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/12/03/ProCoalition/

Though the critical pieces on the coalition in this journal aren't as insightful as Stickings pieces.

I was refreshed by an article by Gregory Wright at commondreams.org--"The Zero Decade--Restarting the 21st Century and Rebooting America, in the Nick of Time."

a meaningful excerpt:

"...America must with finality release itself from the death grip of the ahistoric, anti-science,
anti-nature, Tribulation- and Rapture-obsessed United States Republican Party and push those thieves of our better future out of power in all three branches of our federal government, and in as many state governments as possible, for as many years into the future as possible. For now, we're un-Stuck from Stupid for the next four years in the White House and almost certainly in the Congress as well...."

Saw a great comment at Atrios, as related to the Crawford Bush ranch:

--so the ranch was dressing--

haha

And just heard more bad news for Failin' Palin--
Sarah's clothing cost $180,000.

Guess the Republican Party got punked.

Sorry about the groveling governor of Pennsylvania with large foot in big mouth, and his mysogynistic, deplorable comments against women, i.e, saying the governor of Arizona
in her new cabinet position has no family, no children,--thus, no life.
He is a trip.
Many of us did not vote for him. The first round of elections, he ran against a little known city council man; the second time against football player political novice Lynn Swann.

Now he wants unions to renegotiate set, previously finalized and binding contracts-- and has already stripped management staff of wages.

"None" has my exact point... AGAIN.

Does it MATTER why the average Big Three worker gets 50% more than the average non-union worker?

I'm told the current worker's aren't doing much better than the current non-union. Even that seems in doubt. A Christian Science Monitor (Steve Benen endorsed) article quoted the wages of non-union at $17 per hour and union at $28. Again, 50% higher. Unless the non-union benefits are MUCH better than union bennies, it looks like even current UAW workers are hammering the Big Three's bottom line really hard.

When Washington Monthly carries so much water for the unions and whines so about the "myth" that isn't actually untrue... it does NOT help the unions or any other progressive cause that I can fathom.

Denying reality is an obstacle towards producing a solution for the twin problems of the depression of labor wages and the slow death of the companies that pretend they can still afford the generous packages.

If we say there's no problem, then we won't feel obligated to fix it, will we?

Does someone honestly want to tell me the non-union plants don't have financial edges that have been destroying the Big Three and that the status quo is not certain to finish the job?

Look, I'd LOVE to be wrong, but nobody is giving me the numbers I need to drink the Kool Aid being served up

Throw me a bone here.

RE: UAW wages

If I read your source correctly at Media matters, two conflicting media sources or rather AP (paragon of truth) versus several other media sources.
Given the level of controversy surrounding the actual figure, I am astonished you didn't get off your butt to do fact checking. Are you looking to work at Fox News. Two minutes of Google got this
According to the Indianapolis Star:
"Base wages average about $28 an hour. GM officials say the average reaches $39.68 an hour, including base pay, cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and vacation pay. Health-care, pension and other benefits average another $33.58 an hour, GM says. - September 26, 2007 UNITED AUTO WORKERS OFF THE JOB, Striking back at globalization. By Ted Evanoff"

Mystery solved. But please note there is no mention of this including legacy health costs.

also
"As a result of these changes, we expect that
our average hourly manufacturing wage rate for Tier II Wage positions will be
reduced from approximately $78 per hour to $26 per hour." I got this via google to a Motley Fool
post back to the 2007 GM annual report p.62

Total time for google and writing this post about 12 minutes including talking to my wife.
Pity you didn't think that putting your name on that WM item wasn't worth that much of your time.
Or is it your allegiance to the Party Line

Rachel Maddow once again offers up a fantastic albeit alarming compilation yet again--today about how Bush absolutely REFUSES (yet looks so sad...) to take one ounce of responsibility about his wrongdoings in his "Exit Interviews".

What nonsense and so infuriating.

Yet good to know I'm not alone or going insane with what is being said.

Oh, and this whole way that wall street bail out was treated vs. the current auto one? Wow!

I don't pretend to know what our economy needs, but yes, the reporters that Olbermann and Maddow accessed really helped elucidate layers of issues related to classism and also simply timing.

Does anyone really know what the hell is going on?

Total time for google and writing this post about 12 minutes including talking to my wife.

"A day after we learned that Bush's "ranch" in Crawford really was just a campaign prop, it appears the First Couple have bought a Dallas home where they'll live after Obama's inauguration."

The New Yorker reported this weeks ago.

Krugman hedging his bets, probably because he cannot figure out what exactly government can do.

For None and the others asking about hourly wages - it is in the $28 - $40 range, depending on the various other elements included, with the 07 contract providing for wages that will start at $14 an hour and rise to $17 eventually, and will also not include a defined pension, so that that legacy burden does go away for GM by 2010.

The point is also well made above that no one in the finance sector was asked to answer any such issues - AIG had additional millions of losses between first and second loans from the government simply because they're obligations were too complex even for them to understand themselves. And yet no hesitation to pass it along.

The key to keep in mind, as the Democrats seem to want the Bush administration to fund out of the $700 B TARP, and the Administration desire to have it out of the Energy department loan, is that this can't fall between the two with everyone trying to stand on form in some way. Shelby is obviously a tool, but the focus for all has to be to take this situation seriously and develop a real solution.

Finally, keep in mind that the LA Times has reported the impact of what has happened already to Tustin - roughly a quarter of the cities tax revenues are tied to auto sales. All but 4 states rely on auto sales as one of their top 4 or 5 sources of tax revenues. The impact of any of the Big 3 going down will hit the company employees, thousands of dealers, restaurants, suppliers, Churches and other institutions that have received charitable donations, and on and on.

Odetta died. If you don't know who she was, you should. Bob Dylan credits her with inspiring him to want to play folk music. Key albums: Odetta Sings Ballads and Blues, Odetta At Town Hall (Hound Dog Bay At the Moon, He Had a Long Chain On).

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=General_Motors_Corp/Salary second figure
shows median incomes by years worked. Overall it works out for a mean SALARY of about $89K. Note also that 2/3 of workers have more then 10 years seniority and 1/3 >20 years.

Also http://www.parapundit.com/archives/004670.html
suggests that the current workers are perfectly happy to sell out future workers as long as they keep getting theirs. So much for Solidarity folks:
"... The next generation of United Auto Workers will receive lower pay and benefits than their predecessors, judging by the contracts reached or ratified this week.

If there's a big pattern in the current round of auto-industry bargaining, that's it.

Officially, pay cuts aren't part of the deals. But the launch of a two-tier system, offering many new hires lower wages, raises the curtain on an era when overall pay will be lower.

In benefits, a new contract ratified by UAW workers this week allows General Motors to contribute to a cash-balance retirement plan for new entry-level workers, rather than providing a guaranteed pension.

Meanwhile, in deals cut this year and in 2005, union workers and retirees will be shouldering more of the rising costs for healthcare, and the companies less.

Given the higher labor costs that the Big (but shrinking) Three are saddled with it is amazing they've survived this long. The hourly labor cost gap is enormous.

GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC headed into contract talks with about $25 an hour more in labor costs than Toyota, Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co., according to industry estimates.

About $13 an hour of this gap can be attributed to retiree pension and health benefits, which could be dramatically reduced by the proposed VEBA trust fund for health care.

The new UAW agreement with GM will eventually put GM's labor costs close to Toyota's current labor costs but still higher.

The new deal would put GM “right on top� of Toyota within a few years, said Rod Lache, an analyst with Deutsche Bank. It could reduce GM’s labor costs from $70 an hour to about $50 an hour, Lache estimates. Toyota’s labor cost is about $47 an hour. “It’s a big, big closing of the gap,� he said.

Even as GM and Chrysler secure deals with the UAW that will close much of the labor cost gap Toyota and Honda are looking to open that gap right back up again.

The internal report suggested tying Toyota production wages and benefits to the surrounding region for plants, instead of trying to keep up with the pay scale of the overall U.S. auto industry — one traditionally set by UAW contracts.

Honda appears to be following a similar strategy. When its new plant in Greensburg, Ind., opens next year, Honda plans to start production workers at $14.84 an hour with an automatic $3.71-an-hour raise in 2009, according to report by the Indianapolis Star. The average wage rate for production workers at GM, Ford and Chrysler is about $28 an hour.

So Honda is starting new workers at a way lower rate than the hourly wage of the Big (but shrinking) Three. Plus, the UAW workers have many more benefits..."
Toyota and Honda pay wages high enough to attract good workers in their community. If the going wage for a guy changing tires in a garage is $15/hr why should he get $70/hr from GM for basically the same job?
The idea of the "Nobility" of the working class goes back at least to Louis and Marie Antionette playing Shepard a nd Milkmaid in their specially built Grotto. And then "slumming" in the 20's.

But the UAW worker, noble on the factory floor, is Joe 6pak the rest of the time. Alaskan first dude was a proud member of UAW

Thank you all. I had looked at about a dozen articles from various media sources, about 5 minutes google time, I suppose, and couldn't readily find the answer. Figured it would be quicker to ask and I was right.

So, the difference between union and non-union seems to be relatively small. Everybody assumes that the union workers are making more than they should, but it is likely the most economically and morally justifiable wage (however one might determine that) is between the two, not at the lower end and not at the higher end. History teaches us that corporations will not give workers any more salary than they can get away with paying, regardless how much the workers contribute to the profits compared to management, and the corporations almost always have overwhelming power over the workers in non-union businesses. On the other hand, some unionized businesses certainly get screwed by union leaders looking to increase their power and influence with workers just like happens with sports agents, inflating wages beyond what is reasonable.

The system needs to be more balanced, with power equally distributed between labor and business, mediated by governmental (neutral, hopefully) oversight. The Employee Free Choice Act isn't likely to tip this balance too much, but tipping the scales of intimidation and retaliation to union organizers is not the answer and the issue should be addressed through a better solution to management intimidation of and retaliation against union organizers than simply tilting the scale the other way. The goal should be to remove intimidation and retaliation from the process, not simply choose who gets to employ these tactics.

Former Democratic presidential nominee Senator George McGovern:

“ To my friends supporting EFCA I say this: We cannot be a party that strips working Americans of the right to a secret-ballot election. We are the party that has always defended the rights of the working class. To fail to ensure the right to vote free of intimidation and coercion from all sides would be a betrayal of what we have always championed."

Seems like the solution to employer intimidation in the election process would be simply to have the NLRB conduct the election, or a neutral third party, not the corporation, yet labor activists insist on simply getting rid of the secret ballot election. Something smells in taking that position.

The Democratic Senate should eliminate the "secret hold". A democratic body should have no such device which sets up each petty Senator as a "tin god".

If current trends continue, by 2010, "several" cities will not have a daily newspaper.

Newspaper is a form of communication whose relevance is past its peak. They may not disappear entirely in the near future, but they aren't as significant as they were in the recent past, and they will never again be as important even as they are today.