As I am *very* well aware, those rules about the genitals are what get transsexuals. I came out and was discharged for being trans (not quite the same as DADT). The rules against genital modification are exactly those that get transsexuals, both FTM and MTF.

Amanda: that's awful. I once mused a bit about how DADT would interact with being transgender, if you were attracted to people of the opposite biological sex. Suppose, for instance, you're a transwoman, and suppose further that you're pre-everything and not out, so you seem, to all outward appearances, to be a guy. Now suppose you're attracted to women. If you identify as female, then according to you, you'd be in violation of DADT. But if the Army counts you as a guy, you're not. Gender identification, apparently, makes all the difference.

This always seemed to me to be the reductio of DADT. Or rather, one of its many reductios.

I think it's more to it than meets the eye. If you recall, when they let in all the illegal immigrants to take jobs from citizens, it was "these are jobs Americans don't want to do."

In fact, when I look in the yellow pages for a doctor, I rarely see an American name, most of the doctors are Indian, Persian, or Asian. You go to drug stores like RiteAid, it's rare you see an American working as Pharmacist.

Everytime I call my credit card company or internet service provider, I end up in the Philippines or India.

I think this is just a way for the GOP to keep any American from advancing. With the GOP they want it to be either you're rich or you're poor.

Yeah, the had Sarah Palin use quotes from Ronald Reagan Inaugural speech without giving credit, "Sometimes government isn't the solution to our problems, sometimes government is the problem."

In this case, government is the problem.
Who cares if a person is gay, straight, happy or sad, they are human beings.

I will never ever vote republican again. I changed my party to democrat this year. I have seen the worst of them this past eight years.

/ snark/ If you don't have two, count 'em, two, HUGE balls, you can't fight in the military, torture innocent men, kill, rape, and burn women, kids, houses, and villages. /snark off/

Seriously, WTF are they talking about?? If you have an un-descended testicle, you can't be a soldier?? Ooookaaaay.? Let's say that you speak Farsi, have a short fuse, know how to kill, maim and disembowel anyone who comes within 50 feet of you,, and can blow the balls off a charging rhino at 500 paces..., but you are missing a nut, so you get to go the F away. It makes no sense at all, but is typical of the way our government (Repiglicker for 20 of the last 28 years) operates. Please Obama, bring the Change We Need!

I'm okay with us giving these options to people here on visas. If gives them further options when their original plans may have run out. Or a way to pay the nation back for giving them this chance.

I'm not okay with these old reasons for dismissing people. It's totally possible to fix an undescended testicle from herniating now, they should offer that, or require it to enter.

-Crissa

This isn't just unfair; at a time when we're fighting two wars and short of trained personnel, it's stupid.

It was always stupid.

Repealing DADT early and quickly (don't fuss around) in an Obama presidency would be good, smart policy, but good politics too. By 2010, it would be a non-issue and further marginalize increasingly marginalized Republican party.

Rightwing nuts,

They place an animal above an human.
Was it Leona Helmsly that left millions of dollars to her dog?
They don't want stem cell research, no abortions - yet they don't want all the kids left for adoptions or in foster care? Nor do they want their TAXES to increase, and they don't want welfare!!
Remember, they didn't want to help Katrina victims under the pretext that they should help themselves!!!!

The GOP are some very crazy folks. Crazy like Charles Manson.

Where's their meds!!! Not the drugs they used in the energy department when they got busted.

So you're saying that current military policy would stop the Army using Lance Armstrong as a bicycle messenger?

Missing a nut is not OK; you have to have a perfect body. Being totally nuts, or a few points short on IQ is OK; only the surface perfection matters. Go figure...

Wait, Hold up!!!
This is about as hypocritical as it gets. These rightwing nuts are wasting the courts time challenging Obama's birth. On the other hand trying to replace citizens with foreigners in the military?

I'd say articles of impeachment are in order
"They swore to protect the nation's security and its interest"

With our national security secrets being sold to China, Russa, defense department/treasury department computers being hacked

A meeting with Mexico and our ambassadors & others blackberry's were literally stolen in front of our eyes.

What the hell!

Christ! Why don't they just follow their usual process. Outsource the medical care to India, or somewhere similarly cheap. It couldn't possibly bother them to have all their ex-soldiers sitting around in Mumbai or the Phillippines.

And the bollock thing is pure bollocks. A friend of mine lost one (crushed, ouch!) and it didn't stop him being a great athlete. Who dreams up these rules? It's hard to make this stuff up.

"If someone could tell me precisely what military duties an undescended testicle might interfere with, I'd be very grateful. (And don't point out that undescended testicles come with an increased risk of cancer later in life. The Army does not disqualify recruits who smoke.)"

I can't explain it. It's not like you're likely to survive very long in today's military, anyway.

And in response to notthere's comment above, vets and service members would probably get better care in Mumbai or the Philippines than they currently get at Walter Reed. Hopefully, under Shinseki, that will no longer be true.

Rearding DADT, apparently the armed services brass are very solicitous of the tender sensibilities of service members who would prefer serving next to closeted homosexuals to serving next to acknowleded homosexuals.

I wonder why the services would even want personnel so lily-livered that a fellow service member's orientation would produce that kind of heebie jeebies. Doesn't that at best bespeak a lack of the kind of courage we should expect our warriors to have?

"Hopefully, under Shinseki, that will no longer be true."

Uh, Helena, Walter Reed is an Army hospital, not a VA hospital. Shinseki would have no say in the management of Walter Reed.

Posted by: annjell on December 8, 2008 at 12:14 AM

In fact, when I look in the yellow pages for a doctor, I rarely see an American name, most of the doctors are Indian, Persian, or Asian.

The funny thing is DADT is a gigantic security risk. Imagine the Chinese come across some major with 18 years towards his 20, and they find out he's gay. What better way to flip him that to threaten to ruin his career 2 years short of retirement unless he passes just a "little" bit of information their way.

Thanks for pointing that out, Bernard.

Annjell's xenophobic attitude is exactly what we don't need in the Democratic party.

If you haven't seen it yet, run (don't walk) to see the movie about Harvey Milk. It's not just a great movie...it's an important movie.

"The Pentagon plans to recruit more foreigners... Long as they ain't gay.

Sounds like the French Foreign Legion II

Offhand, I'd imagine the the testical thing is basically a blanket application of the military's view on lungs or kidneys.

Basically, if the body has a natural "spare" and you've already lost one, you're out.

The idea being, I suppose, that if through the course of your military career you lose a kidney, well you've got the other one so you'll live and you're off to a less dangerous job.

Same with any form of lung lobe impairment.

The testicle, thing, I suppose, is the same idea -- if you're injured and have TWO, your service to the country isn't quite as likely to have totally sterilized you. (Or forced you to require hormone shots)

It's pretty stupid, though.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to do a little research and find out why the regulations were written in this way ? All I see here is a bunch of predjudice emanating from our side of the isle, and how is this invective any different from that used by the GOPers ?

As I told one of my friends the other day, who seemed rather intent on reminding us that he WAS hetrosexual by his rather graphic descriptions of the sex scenes in the TV show "Californication" much to the boredom of all who were listening, "Nobody cares if you are straight, gay or whatever just get to the point."

Jasper,

Well, if the damn shitty policy would change, we wouldn't have to worry about that, now, would we??

The Pentagon plans to recruit more foreigners

That worked well for Rome.

What is the test for being gay? How is that determined? Wouldn't it make sense to try and convict any gay person who was in the military under false pretenses? Let's conduct in depth psychological examinations and interrogations of all recruits to determine their sexual orientation, gender identification, pre-operative condition, opinions on serving with undesireable colleagues, i.e. women, gays, Negroes, Hispanics, Northerners, Southerners, Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Socialists, sinners, non-Christians, etc. God forbid you share a foxhole with someone you may not trust to save your life in combat. Do they still use foxholes? If you are scared of a gay person, what else might you fear? Arabs? Iranians? Gosh, maybe you are too chicken to serve in combat. You should just get a job where there is no one that you fear.

None of this makes any sense to me. When the military cannot recruit enough "real Amurikans" for the mission of protecting Amurika, then we may have to consider some other means of protecting the Homeland/Fatherland. Hey, how about talking to people to find out what they really think and believe, and why they may fear us, or we fear them? I know it is pretting dangerous, but nothing else seems to work.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

The purpose of an army is to allow men in high places to gain satisfaction from sending their men (and now women) off to become cannon fodder. Like any child playing with his toys, the stronger the combatants (perfect in every imaginable way), the more interesting becomes the battle and the resultant deaths. Imperfect men just aren't as much fun to send into the arena of mortal combat.

Historically, it is only recently that real human warriors actually come home, many as ghosts of their former selves. Here the rulers also enjoy notions of scarred super heros (formerly perfect), still able to battle-on (stop-loss), even with their acquired infirmities.

It's all just too much fun in the sandbox that is the Middle East.

I am not xenophobic at all.

The point I was trying to make. When is this going to end. Americans have been displaced from the workplace. It reminds me of the slogan, "we're fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here."

Well, in this case, it doesn't matter if we hire them there, we're still hiring them there.

Try going to another country and see if you can take a job from one of its citizens.

Example, in Belize, you can take up residency there, open a business, but you can't sell to its citizens.

Cayman Islands, you can't take a job from its citizens - you can get residency there if you make a minimum of $150k a year.

Panama, you can take up residency there if you participate in the deforestation program.

You have American citizens with degrees in IT that was touted a few years ago, now they can't get the jobs they were promised.

In fact, our education system have left a generation of citizens that can't compete. Most of the other countries make it mandatory that you are fluent in at least two languages. I know when I was growing up, I was told, "You're American, you don't need to know other languages."