I notice that most of the TV networks here in Mexico are carrying messages for Felicidades de Fiestas, the equivalent of Happy Holidays, rather than Felice Navidad. Bill O'Reilly just may be on to something with his war on Christmas schtick.

I wouldn't bother with the Happy Holidays I would just put up some generic lights and leave it at that.

Why are you not allowed to have Christian displays but you are allowed to have Jewish displays?

I am pretty good with both the old and new testaments but I can't find too many references to Santa Claus and Christmas trees.

So, if you want a Jewish display along side the pagan Christmas tree and Santa then you should have a dradle, not a menorah.

The problem is that creches are more charming than other displays. Don't atheists like sheep, cows and babies?

Could they have only non-verbal displays? This would allow the festivus pole but not the warnings about Santa taking you to hell unless they managed to make an model of a sleigh burning up .

I'm partial to "Season's Greetings." It covers those that may not have a special holiday this time of year but (for those of us that get really wintry conditions)acknowledges that we are counting down to New Year hybernation.

Why have any holiday acknowledgment at all? If Christmas and Hanukkah are the "reasons for the season" then any State should not display any religiously affiliated (or non-religious protest) display at all.

I think all government buildings should be totally devoid of any mention of any religion, or religious topic (including atheism), except perhaps for employee's personal desks. I'd be OK with small personal displays of "holiday cheer" but am less comfortable with any large display that would appear to be institutionally approved.

This reminds me of a strange result to an unplanned experiment I started in college. I tacked up a poster that had been used during an oral presentation (in the day before powerpoint). Out of context the poster content seemed random and out of place. That was my contribution. What happened is that people started adding their own comments, and others would comment on those comments, etc.

It was much like a public, less sexy, but more thoughtful display usually found on the walls of the bathroom where I discovered the discarded posters.

The Nativity probably has a specific meaning to some, but at the Olympia dome it is probably out of place, and provokes a desire to respond with other ambiguously meaningful content.

If religious groups wish to promote religious displays and have total control over the message then they limit the displays to their own religious property.

Once anyone decides to post a message of any sort in the public square, they lose the right to dictate that that message should have a monopoly viewpoint.

A Festivus Pole? That's great! I wonder what the FSM display was going to be?

"May you be touched by his noodly appendage"
R-amen!

The problem is that creches are more charming than other displays. Don't atheists like sheep, cows and babies?

I've been opposed to creches for about 40 years. When I was a kid visiting a live chreche in San Deigo, the damn camel reached over the fence and bit me! I'm sure it is what started me on the long road to ex-catholicism;>

Of course, nobody could have predicted this might happen.

Seriously, though, one wonders whether any other course would have been possible. I'm sure somebody figured out this would happen, and suggested that therefore NO religious displays should be granted, but then of course the Christofascists would have gone ballistic -- maybe even bombed the place, like they did in Oklahoma City -- and the whole thing would have become a stinky political mess (or worse). And so instead, some sly administrator let it all play out, demonstrating why it's such a bad idea in the first place, and nobody had to take any political heat for it.

Just a theory...

Why are you not allowed to have Christian displays but you are allowed to have Jewish displays?

Are you fucking blind? They have a xtian display. It's what started the nonsense. Shut up and RTFA.

I like the spaghetti monster. I hope they keep that one. But this is the ultimate conclusion when such things are permitted on free-speech grounds.
I'm guessing there are many churches in and around the city with very nice displays. Maybe they should just get rid of everything on public property.

Where do I sign up to support the Flying Spaghetti Monster display?

I like your idea. But lights should be kept to a minimum as they are a huge pollutant and energy drain. And the message should be something Obama-esque--like: "Have a Slam-Dunk of a Holiday Season!" or a more serious: "Let Unity and Justice Light the Way".

Santa Claus will take you to Hell

Cool. I didn't realize anyone but me considered early-eighties grindhouse filmmaking a religion.

With more reports that Christ was really born in June, just move any displays into downtown Olympia and their marvelous Farmer's Market. Then, all could enjoy the largesse of the PNW, sip some Batdorf and Bronson coffee and toast, whomever, while singing "June is 'bustin out all over".

I like babies as much as the next person, but that's not what a nativity scene is. Bostonian is being disingenuous at best.

Can we please stop shoving religion down the atheists' throats on public property that atheists help pay for?

The article fails to note that the Zoroastrian contribution was to pour gasoline on the displays and burn them all down.

How about a chrome bumper from an historic American made car with a simple bumpersticker reading "Worship Happens"?

the one public display in my neighborhood (Adams Morgan in DC) is a Festivas display, on a public kiosk, complete with pole and a place for the airing of grievances. no one really seems all that offended.

I live in Washington, and my local paper is filled with letters condemning Christine Gregoire for "promoting atheism." These people would be perfectly happy to have the federal government declare America a Christian nation.

The same idiots who laud America as the land of the free have no idea what freedom means.

A private group asked to donate a Nativity scene to be publicly displayed on the Capitol grounds.

Doesn't this constitute a graven image?

I can hear the fundie rebuttal now: "It's not graven; it's made out of molded plastic."

Here's my recommendation: Historically, this time of year featured the Saturnalia - until the christians co-opted the holiday as their own. (The Saturnalia lasted twelve days - maybe you see a pattern here.) So instead of a nativity scene, just erect a nice big statue of Saturn. It will be in the nature of a "historical monument" and we all know how much the fundies like their historical monuments.

This is an object lesson in how the Establishment Clause and Jefferson's "wall" between Church and State actually protect religious belief. In that sense they are actually pro-religion. The Founders understood that for religious pluralism to survive, the state could not endorse any particular faith. The State of Washington could have avoided this mess by staying neutral.

This is how you put an end to this nonsense. First Amendment court cases have been filed for half a century now, and secularits win most of them, but it has never stopped the religious right from trying again the next holiday.

Multiple religious groups demanding and getting equal space might just do the trick.

Benen's recommended policy for next year is exactly what the policy was up through last year. The religious group that "donated" the nativity scene actually sued to get it put up. To remain constututional, the policy has to be all or nothing. It used to be nothing. (A couple of non-sectarian decorated trees. And don't start on decorated trees being a Christian symbol- it's actually a pagan tradition. The OT condemns them.) This year is everything. A return to nothing would be a return to sanity, if anyone wants that.

I've been waiting for years for this critical mass situation to be reached. The Christianists' believe that freedom of religion means everyone is free to believe in *their* religion. Period. When all the others demand their equally valid rights be respected at the same time it just reveals the absurdity of the whole situation obvious to everyone.

Either put all of them up or none of them. None of them is cleaner.

'a Christian goodwill message to atheists.'

What that goodwill message really means is 'Act now and you won't burn in hell for all eternity, as you would otherwise deserve'. Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus.

A statue of the *planet* Saturn.

I live in Washington State. There's a little more background, and it goes back a few years.

There has been a Christmas tree at the capital for a bunch of years. All this didn't start until a couple of years ago when a menorah was added. That made some guy want to put a nativity display up as well. He was turned down and then sued. And won, the state couldn't pick and choose. So the rule became anybody who wanted to sponser a display could. So the guy put up his nativity scene, and the atheist group put up their sign in response. And everything was fine until Bill O'Reilly started spouting off and making it national news.

In order to make it clear that the old man in the statue was Saturn, you'd want to sculpt him in the act of devouring one or two of his children.

As long as we're intent on spreading cheer.

The "reason for the season" is the tilt of the Earth's axis relative to the plane of its orbit. In fact that's the reason for all the seasons.

One thing that can be said for celebrating the winter solstice, is that it is an objective astronomical event. Whether you find it a significant or celebratory occasion or not is up to you, but the solstice itself is an objective reality.

Hey, what about us Quakers?

Actually, our display would be nothing since we don't make a big deal out of Christmas. To the Friends, every day is a holiday.

Hmm. That might be the solution after all.

How many of you send Christmas Cards?

I don't care if it says "Seasons Greetings". It is still a Christmas card.

neil wilson.

Your point would be what, exactly?

(and I don't send Xmas cards saying anything, FWIW).

I don't care if it says "Seasons Greetings". It is still a Christmas card.

Unless you're Jewish. Or Muslim. Or Pastafarian.

Oh, and neil wilson...

So, if you want a Jewish display along side the pagan Christmas tree and Santa then you should have a dradle, not a menorah.

It's spelled draydl (according to Leo Rosten's The Joys of Yiddish). And a menorah is also a symbol of Hanukkah, with no religious significance, either. That would be a Torah, but they are never displayed like that, any more than you would put a bible in a creche.

"Santa Claus will take you to Hell." LOL Bill O'Reilly isn't going to be happy about that.

I just send cards that read, "Celebrate today." at random times throughout the year.

Public buildings should have no religious displays at all at any time including for a "holiday season." Religious groups, such as the church I serve as minister, can decorate their own properties to their heart's content.