The choice between reformers and traditionalists completely begs the question of the challenges facing American education. Without taking into account the potential influence of technology in the mix and the the burgeoning movement to home schooling (which I haven't supported and still have many questions about), people working to improve U.S. education are only nibbling at the margins.

The concept of "the school" as a place rather than as an idea of where, how, and when to learn has been made obsolete by the computer. My grandson, admittedly a very bright learner, has his mental tendrils out all over the world, yet has to worry about showing up at school with his gym shorts in order not be be penalized. How rediculous!

Unions protecting their members and parents advocating for their kids at all costs will never stop butting heads with teachers and administrators of good will caught in the middle. And all this is just a start. Meanwhile, higher education in America is just as much in need of reform, change, and rethinking, but no higher education person has headed the Department of Education in years. - Ted

There are a lot of people out there who should not be teaching. I remember back in college that the education majors in class always seemed to be the dimmest bulbs in the chandeliers.

On the other hand, you can't attract the "best and the brightest" with the salaries that teachers are paid. Yes, I know that many argue that the salary is only for nine months, but I don't know a single teacher who works less than 12 hours per day.

The teaching profession is arguably the most important job in the county. We won't get anywhere with educational reform until we start acting like it. Unfortunately, teaching faces a number of hurdles, including a nationwide anti-intellectualism and conservative opposition to unions and to public education.

But the biggest reason that the teaching profession isn't given the respect it deserves is a national legacy of sexism. Until relatively recently, the only jobs available for an educated woman was nursing and teaching. As a country we still don't take either profession seriously.

Until relatively recently, the only jobs available for an educated woman was nursing and teaching. As a country we still don't take either profession seriously. Steve T

Interesting comment. Matthew Miller, author of "The Two Percent Solution" argued that for years, the US subsidized it's education system, precisely by denying women opportunities. In other words, we essentially put half of our brightest people in charge of education. Now that more opportunities are available (as there should be), we need to pay teachers more to attract them.

The other side of the coin is that unions tend to protect the weak. We need some innovative compromise. Hopefully, that is what Duncan offers.

"There are a lot of people out there who should not be teaching. "

Mainly the 90% of them that insist on cramming students into classrooms when they have the Internet.

On line schools are growing by 10% per year while classroom teaching is only forced upward by the police force hunting down truants.

We know what works and what students want, personal study, on line with weekly teacher meetings. The only reason students want the campus is for social events, please consider the students at least as much as the teachers union.

Have any of you wondered shy students have computers at home, cell phones in their pockets, and Ipods? Because they are avoiding crammed in classrooms as much as possible.

Ted, so why can't your grandson show up for P.E. wearing the right clothes? Is he too special to do as he's supposed to?

Learning to operate within rules is how schools socialize future (law-abiding) citizens, workers, soldiers. It's part of being properly educated.

Schooling in America is about to get better.

No more rabid calls for vouchers.

No more creationist drivel.

We will see millions of students become engaged.

They already are, now that Obama's our next POTUS.

He won by capturing the hearts of children, they didn't vote but they still are proud of him.

Watch the Obama-Campaign Net savvy permeate everywhere!

Our schools will rock!

I agree with SteveT and Danp, however a lack of highly qualified teachers isn't the biggest problem. That title would go to lousy parenting.

We desperately need a society in which suburban kids aren't coddled to death and are instead forced to take some responsibility. We need urban kids that aren't looking up to their out-of-work crack dealing cousins or stepfathers as role models. In general, parents should be taking away the SPS's/ X-box's, putting healthy meals on the table, ensuring enough sleep, and interacting with their children more. Obesity is rampant among youth, which affects not only bodies but also minds.

As I said in another post, Arne Duncan is lukewarm around here (Chicago). All my friends with kids in the Chicago school system say that the system is not all that great. It is sorta gross to watch Duncan at the beginning of every school year not only beg, but hand out huge gifts to kids to show up on the first day. I think the idea is to make schools places kids want to go. The best that has been done here is in the Pilsen neighborhood, a hugely disadvantaged place, where they have changed to year-round schooling.

I agree with SteveT and Danp, however a lack of highly qualified teachers isn't the biggest problem. That title would go to lousy parenting.

No, that title would go to our entire culture and the value Americans place on learning and discovering. The problems in our education system are, surprise, systemic, and cannot be addressed nearly as quickly as any of us would like.

Parents are a huge factor.
Teachers unions are a slightly less huge factor.
School boards and administrators, often political appointees, are a huge factor.
Student attitudes about learning are a factor.
Poverty is a factor.
Kids TV is a factor.
And, the "schoolhouse" model as many commenters have pointed out is a factor.

There is no single bogeyman to vanquish and no magic bullet to fire.

The internet may offer many opportunities, but I think it would be a mistake to totally eliminate the social aspect of the classroom. And yes, following rules is an important part of becoming a good citizen. The last thing we want to do is to create a society of "self actualized" monsters who think that liberty is defined as the degree to which their id is satisfied on a minute by minute basis. Some might argue we are already there. We need learning that addresses teamwork as well as individual achievement.

Not a two term problem.

Framing education policy as being a battle between these two "camps" is a telling sign of how debates over education policy are almost completely devoid of substance.

I was encouraged when I heard that Linda Darling-Hammond was advising Obama. The idea of an academic with a strong background in education reform having a voice in policy would be a welcome change, but it appears that the status quo of standardized testing and accountability will continue... despite the lack of empirical evidence to support those policies.

The other side of the coin is that unions tend to protect the weak. We need some innovative compromise. Hopefully, that is what Duncan offers. Posted by: Danp on December 16, 2008 at 8:44 AM

What utter bullshit. There is not a shred of verifiable evidence that this is true in any sense. In fact, the few studies there have been have shown that students perform/learn better in those schools with teachers' unions.

Stop unreflectively parroting right-wing propaganda.

students perform/learn better in those schools with teachers' unions.

I don't disagree with this conclusion. But tenure protects bad teachers, and blocking merit pay discourages innovative incentives. I'm also not anti-union, but comparing union to non-union schools oversimplifies the issue, since many of those non-union schools are poorly run charter and religious schools.

In answer to Cash's question: On the day in question, schools in his home of Concord were open, but, because the electricity has been out all over New Hampshire, he was staying with us, fifty-some miles away. A special trip had to be made to pick up a pair of gym shorts. I don't know why he didn't have the appropriate clothes in his locker. My point had more to do with the rigidity of many teachers, not the specific instance. - TL

Incompetent administrators hire bad teachers and after two or three years of observcation decide to keep them anyway. End of story. The anti-tenure argument is hollow and pointless. Stop blaming teacher unions for damage committed by spineless building principals.

I am not a teacher.
The push for accountability, when it means enthroning standardized test scores, limits teachers' ability to innovate, use their judgment and creativity, and control their work environment. If we want to attract and keep bright, creative teachers, other than the few fanatically dedicated that we should thank God we have, they need not just decent money, respect, and safe working environments, but some freedom of thought and action. When our society offers these things, we won't need teachers' unions. In the meantime, we ought to realize that alienating the people who are struggling, against tremendous odds, to do a very difficult job--and who are as unhappy about the incompetent among them as any of us--is not going to help our kids. I predict a short tenure for Michelle Rhee, and any schools chief like her who can't figure this out.

Posted by: karen on December 16, 2008 at 11:52 AM

I want to second everything in this comment.

My wife didn't earn a degree in special education in order to babysit children, but that, and ever-increasing amounts of paperwork, is all she ever does anymore. Kids today are taught how to take a standardized test, and that's just about it. No effort is made to teach them how to think.

But parental apathy, and not teachers' unions, is the biggest problem. My wife has to spend more of her time teaching her children respect for authority, because the parents won't do it.

Danp: The other side of the coin is that unions tend to protect the weak. We need some innovative compromise. Hopefully, that is what Duncan offers.

Dr. Morpheus: What utter bullshit. There is not a shred of verifiable evidence that this is true in any sense. In fact, the few studies there have been have shown that students perform/learn better in those schools with teachers' unions.

Stop unreflectively parroting right-wing propaganda.

Amen. I'm sick of people bashing teachers' unions. I don't see anyone else out there advocating for my wife's right to earn a decent wage, but there are plenty of people, both in and out of Congress and the state legislatures, working to deny her fair compensation. I was thrilled when Dino Rossi went down to defeat here in Washington. He would have been an absolute disaster.

Bravo lobbygow, very well put! Your list is indeed the problems that our school system faces.

Point taken, Ted.

I thought you were making a general attack on any school rule your grandson happened to dislike.