I wonder whether you misread him. Did he mean one cabinet post for each of the large Southern states Obama won?

Faux victimization is a big part of southern culture.

I wish there WERE an effort to exclude them. For the past 14 years, as long as I've been interested in politics, people with southern-accents have been fucking up this country beyond belief. We've been holding back our progress because of "southern" sensibilities since the founding.

It's time for them to evolve or get out of the god damn way.

Really? We'll need to ... make sure that every state is represented?

I think John-Mark Stensvaag is right. Sabato is calling for a policy of "to the victor belongs the spoils". Or as Blagojevich would say, "This state is bleeping gold. I'm not doing it for bleeping nothing."

Pretty sure John-Mark is right. It looks to me like he meant one from each of the southern states Obama won, since he specifically references the three both before and after suggesting their should be one from each.
It's still an idiotic comment but, perhaps, slightly less idiotic.

I'm with MNPundit.

They had their shot for the last two terms (or longer). GTFOTW.

What all of these "analyses" fail to recognize is that you don't have a deep field - if you have any field at all - of progressive talent in the South, because the voters continue to elect the most backward and regressive candidates. Who does Obama really have to pick from in the South? In my state, we have two Democratic senators - Mark Pryor and Blanche Lincoln - who both would fit better in the Republican party, since their "bases" are, respectively, the wacko religionists and big business. In most of the other southern states, it's even worse. This is what happens to a national party that allows itself to become a marginalized regional party - when the other party comes to power, the entire region gets shut out. Cry me a fucking river.

I have heard whispers of him bringing James Lee Witt back to FEMA, but don't know if that's going to happen or not. Witt is from Arkansas. Other than that, I can't think of a single progressive southern politician of note. It's absurd to suggest that Obama needs to step up and appoint some reactionary cretin just to keep the people who didn't vote for him, and won't vote for him 4 years from now, happy. They're only really happy if the trogladytes they elect are running the show and trashing the place.

Self-ascribed importance will be the most formidable resistance President-elect Obama will face as he tries to get power-entrenched local politicians to transcend themselves and help right the wrong Bush/Cheney Republicans have done to our nation! -Kevo

Sabato's such a great example of the other-wise unemployable academic who's saved from living in a box by tenure.

Could it be that Kirk is of the wrong color for the type of people making the complaint to recognize as southern.

"There really ought to be one (cabinet post) from each state," says Sabato.

...Most likely means one for each of the three Southern states won by Obama.

That said, cabinet posts are not rewards, and voters don't choose presidents based on the states their cabinet members come from.

Fine, fine, three new cabinet posts for the south then. Here are my suggestions;

Secretary of Tobacco
Secretary of NASCAR
Secretary of Obnoxious Whiners

Will that make them happy?

I thought many Southerners didn't like Affirmative Action?

Seriously, with the deep and devastating scope of economic/geopolitical/environmental issues surrounding the US, worrying about Southern vapors is really absolute least of the Obama Admin's problems (even below the selection of the First Dog.)

i am in total agreement with what this person >>> MNPundit

posted >>> on December 21, 2008 at 10:59 AM

that was exactly what i wanted to read about this topic.

This is ridiculous. I live in North Carolina, and I guarantee you I don't know a single person who could name more than two members of Obama's cabinet, much less someone who's going to base their vote in four years on who's in it. I'd bet that significantly less than one percent of the population has even the faintest interest in cabinet appointments.

It seems to me we just had 20 years of presidents from Texas or Arkansas. Why are the southerners complaining? Because thats what they do. Conservatives are the same. It is conservatives who are making these complaints because they need something to say. And Kirk is black, there for does not count. When conservatives say southern they mean white conservative men.

So like Gov. Richardson doesn't count? Is it because he's latino or because the name of his state has the 'M' word?

Based on Southerners voting records, they are in the minority and deserving of marginalization and scorn. Perhaps if they join us here in reality in the 21st century, they can change their lot.

Who should he appoint? If all these people are going to bitch about a lack of Southerners, provide a list. Prove that Obama is excluding talented people. It seems to me that the little Dem. talent in the South (Webb, Warner, etc.) has no desire to be in the Cabinet. I guess William Jefferson will have some free time for a while.

Let say Obama put Robert Wexler, FL, or James Clyburn, SC in the cabinet. Wouldn't help, I think, as these wouldn't be the "right kind" of southerners. That is, the pundits on this train want a white moderate or conservative.

Where is Tom Delay or Haley Barbour, or someone else opposed in every way to success of the Obama administration? Don't they deserve a place in the cabinet?

That said, Tim Kaine, who was out early for Obama and a vp candidate, and who is term limited and unlikely to move up to the Senate in Va, would probably satisfy Larry Sabato, and, as we all know, as goes Sabato so goes the 2012.

This is a 'draw your curves, then collect and plot your data' story.

On the tombstone of the Republic will be the epitaph "Killed By A Story Arc".

The anti-southern attitudes here are disconcerting. There are progressives in the south, and not everyone in the south is a bigot or a rightwinger. The whole point of Obama's strategy was not to write off the south, but to win it.

Granted, I don't think the cabinet picks have much to do with that. Nonetheless, Virginia has three major elected officials who could have been cabinet members: Kaine, Warner, and Webb. We have them, but we need to keep them!

Maybe this is another reason that, per Michael Lind, the south needs a third Reconstruction. Let's put troops down there again, too, but this time, 200,000 instead of 20,000.

The South is a hell hole in every respect. If there were some way we could vote it out of the US, our country would be much better off.

I can think of a few southerners who might have fit in nicely. Ronnie Earle (of Austin, Texas) might have made a kick-ass attorney general. Or perhaps Nancy Rapoport (now at UNLV Law School, but grew up in Orange, Texas, graduated from Rice U in Houston 1982, was also dean of the U Houston law school for a while), has a good chunk of bankruptcy law on her resume, which might come in handy about now.

But somehow, I am guessing that those would not be happy-making southerners.

Another time when the comments are more interesting than the story. There are a lot of progressives in the South, as noted, but not so many as to make a substantial majority. Obama won three states by narrow margins, and lost the rest of the area.

And don't expect Bill Richardson to satisfy a true Southerner -- we/they all know that the real South is the states that were, or wanted to be, in the Confederacy.

So considering everything the South hasn't done badly, and certainly isn't the least represented group in the new Administration. That would be Progressive Populist Democrats, the group that worked hardest to elect Obama in spite of what now look like well-founded misgivings. A John Edwards appointment to AG would have gone a long way toward satisfying both groups as well as taking out the business and government trash, and I'd cheerfully let the South go hang to see Robert Reich and Howard Dean in major posts. Not gonna happen, though.

It would be easy to interpret Steve's posts as an indication that he just doesn't like the South or southerners and feels the need to see them collectively punished for sins committed mostly by Republicans.

I believe Sabato is saying this kind of thinking is not a good strategy for expanding Democratic office holders in the region. Rewarding the South for moving in the right direction should help solidify recent gains by the Dems.

The anti-southern attitudes here are disconcerting.

This story is pretty much a perfect encapsulation of why so many people in the North and West have a poor opinion of the South. The sense of entitlement that Sabato and other people making this complaint have is really breathtaking. They're actually arguing that there should be affirmative action just for white Southerners, and that special accommodations should be made to make sure there are "enough" Southerners in the administration (beyond the three already appointed).

Can you imagine what these same people would be saying if, say, Al Sharpton was making the same argument for African-Americans?

The reason the South is underrepresented in this administration is a simple one -- the president himself, for the first time in a while, isn't a southerner.

Dubya surrounded himself with Texans, Clinton with Arkansans. Obama is surrounding himself with Chicago folks. What a surprise.

And SG, if you hadn't noticed, there are already troops in the South, a lot more than in any other part of the country. Thank the pre-1965 Democratic Party, chocked to the gills with Southerners with Congressional seniority. To keep the faction quiet, Congress and the Truman and Eisenhower administrations filled the area with military bases, prompting a Northern conservative migration to fill jobs offered by Defense contractors attracted by the bases and a growing, malleable (as in union-hating) rightwing population. This is how the union-friendly North came to be known as the Rust Belt, and we ended up with the kind of country we've had since '68. The last thing the South needs is more military giveaways.

I'm impressed by Sabato's analysis that people's votes and a candidate's political position are determined by his Cabinet's geographic composition. Does he have any data to support this? Any evidence to suggest that appointing to a minor Cabinet role someone from one of the states he's talking about might actually help Democrats hold that state in four years? It's news to me.

Quick, anyone, what state is Bush's Secretary of Veterans Affairs from? Secretary of Labor?

The biggest seat in the Cabinet Room has been occupied for a Southerner for decades. That counts.

"Nonetheless, Virginia has three major elected officials who could have been cabinet members: Kaine, Warner, and Webb. We have them, but we need to keep them!"

And this is the reason why there aren't more Southern politicos in the Cabinet. There's no bench of reliable progressives to fill their spots if they are appointed.
Look at the situation in Arizona. By appointing Gov Napolitano to SecHomeland Security, a GOP Lt Gov will take over and state Dems will have a much harder job to retake statehouse and even keep progressive policies going in AZ.

I'd like to echo those who point out that the South currently has a shallow bench for Democratic cabinet picks.

And I'd like to add that for the first time in my lifetime, we have an urban Northern president, someone from my demographic, and I'm not in the mood to listen to Southerners whine about not having enough juice in the White House right now.

It's Larry Sabato's type of thinking that makes a mockery of governing, and politics. Obama has built a cabinet of mostly qualified professionals without indulging in the usual political appointment process and its dismal results. What in heaven's name is wrong about making appointments that are not based on politics? So far the injection of partisan politics into governing has held this nation back from being all that it can be.

The new press secretary is from Auburn, Alabama. Perhaps somebody should ask Gibbs about this. I think he will be amused.

This almost makes up for the oversized influence of the South throughout most of this nation's history, but not really.

This notion that somehow Southerners have become an underrepresented minority, deserving of affirmative action and a quota system, is absurd.
We only need PC quotas. White males need not apply.

Look how critical the source state of cabinet members has been to voters in the past.

(Sometimes it seems that there's a contest to make the most inane political analysis possible. This guy's comment is world class inane.)

It's apparently not just the south. Our local paper ran a column today by Joel Connelly of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer titled "Obama overlooks Northwest in cabinet." He says Obama "has yet to announce an appointee from north of Des Moines, Iowa, or west of Denver." It could be that this was written some time ago, but this is just silly.

If there were anyone in the South with an IQ greater than 10, maybe there'd be some Southerners in the Cabinet.

Enjoying your "Permanent Majority," Southern Republicans...?

related fake news

OBAMA NAMES MADOFF AS IRS CHIEF

In another effort to institute change in Washington, President-elect Barack Obama has nominated disgraced financier Bernard Madoff to head the Internal Revenue Service. Facing criticism for naming a person of such shady character, Obama maintained that this is an example of the type of out-of-the-box thinking needed to counteract the business as usual thinking in Washington.

The President-elect noted that, throughout his campaign, he has
stated his intent to tone down partisanship and that it is not necessary that every one in his administration be in agreement on each and every issue. Just as his campaign broke new fund raising ground, Mr Madoff has developed new and successful methods of obtaining funds.

Mr Obama added that in these trying times, when the government needs additional revenues, it is crucial that the IRS, the nation's revenue producing agency, be led by someone with a proven record in the art of raising cash.

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

Is southern In-group identity so fixed, so paranoid, that they pay attention to the regional identity of cabinet members? wow. wow.

Traditionally, state representation took place in the legislative branch, meh. So if people are jumping on this "my-region-has-gotta-have-recognition-on-the-cabinet" bandwagon, it could be a sign that after eight years of Bushco, Americans regard Congress as a stagnant backwater with no meaningful power.

> Thank the pre-1965 Democratic Party, chocked
> to the gills with Southerners with Congressional
> seniority. To keep the faction quiet, Congress
> and the Truman and Eisenhower administrations
> filled the area with military bases,

Actually, when George Marshall moved the great military build-up of 1940-1942 from the planning stage to implementation he ordered that most of the new training bases be built in the South so as to get more usable training months/year in the warmer climate. He later said this was one the few decisions that he regretted because it ended up alienating the military culture from the rest of the US outside the South. We are mostly living with the results of that decision today, combined with the draw-down of SAC (whose bases were mostly in the North due to aircraft range issues) and of course the deliberate decision of today's senior officers to use the various BRAC processes to retreat to the Old Confederacy.

Cranky

As I understand, there's precedent for this fixation. After the Civil War, a token southerner would get included on every important board or commission -- as far as I know, the first use of affirmative action in American life. Even before the Civil War, the southern ruling class has seen itself as a besieged minority, and has not felt safe unless it's been dominating the country.

im a northerner who has lived most of my adult life in two states that were part of the confederacy. this is all about political calculus not entitlement. a silly calculus, perhaps, but that's what sabato is talking about.

i'd say about the only southerners who might be disappointed or upset by obama's appointments are those who might have been considered for a post, wanted the job and didn't get it.

that said, most of you i assume were quite happy Nov. 4 when virginia, n.c. and florida went to obama. now your saying fuck us? that we're just a bunch of neanderthals? the bigotry is astounding. and stupid. obama might have won the general election without us but he never would have won the nomination without virginia, south carolina and other deep south states. we're still part of this country.

the goal in politics is to win votes, not make your party as insular or as regional as possible. howard dean understood that.

I can't lay hands on the exact citation right now, but in the debate over the Fugitive Slave Act, one of the Southern Senators rose to say that it wasn't enough for Southern wishes to prevail over Northern ones in law, not enough for Northerners to obey with the law. The South would see itself as threatened until Northerners not only obeyed the law but approved of it. Basically, there was nothing the South would accept short of endorsement as well as compliance. It seems to be a perpetual feature in the mindset of the Southern elites.

no mudwall, we are saying 'fuck you' to anyone who complains with anything resembling sincerity that a region isn't represented in the cabinet. Especially when there are three cabinet-level posts (defense, EPA, energy czar) filled by people from Florida, Texas and louisiana, all of which I am fairly certain from my recent glance at the weather map in this fine airport, are in the South.

Exactly how many voters in Virginia and/or North Carolina are prepared to base their vote, not on how well the administration performs, but on the geographic backgrounds of the administration's cabinet members?

The question might be: how many voters in Virginia and/or North Carolina are prepared to base their vote on the geographic backgrounds of the administration's cabinet members, after hearing the insult to their region endlessly repeated to them by the Republicans for four years?

Not that I agree that any of this should even be a concern. Fuck the South. Buncha WATBs.

the goal in politics is to win votes, not make your party as insular or as regional as possible. howard dean understood that.

Republicans don't.

Mudwall, do you honestly think that anyone has got away without a "fuck you" from their neighbors at some point in the recent past? This is the discourse that the Roves/Coulters/Hannitys and the "War" on Terror/Iraq/Democrats has brought us to. There will always be idiots on both sides who don't know how to be civil any more because they've been insulted by someone.

You never hear about the lack of northern states politicians or Californians (10% of the4 entire US population) being brought into the cabinet. This is nonsense pure and simple.

Mudwall, do you honestly think that anyone has got away without a "fuck you" from their neighbors at some point in the recent past?

Something in that. Half my family members and a lot of my friends are Southern, so I have a dog on both sides of the M-D line in this fight. Okay, that one didn't really work. But I will say that if we Chicagoans wilted like peach blossoms every time someone made fun of us, we wouldn't have the energy to get up in the morning, much less engage in spirited attempts at forging innovative trade agreements a la Blago.

And as far as I could tell, Sarah Palin's routine about the superior virtues of downstate Virginia and rural small towns everywhere elicited howls of mockery, not hurt feelings, from the Northerners urbanites among us. Seriously, guys, toughen up.

"Nonetheless, Virginia has three major elected officials who could have been cabinet members: Kaine, Warner, and Webb. We have them, but we need to keep them!" - Posted by: Vicki Linton

Kaine will be free in a year to fill in any vacancies that come up, especially in the domestic cabinet posts. Webb and Warner can stay just where they are thank you.

As someone who lives in Virginia (not that I'm gong to claim to be a Southerner) I just state that Obama's cabinet if perfectly fine and I'll be happy to clear up any confusion that arises in the wingnut set.

I am very happy with most of Obama's cabinet picks - and those that I am not have no bearing on where they are from. However, you people that a blowing off Mudwall are being just as bigoted and small minded as those southerners who "don't have an IQ above 10".

Being one of those southerners who even in the states that did not go for Obama, but where over 40% of the people voted for him.... And being one of those people that gave money to the Obama campaign for over a year.... It is really hard not to take offense at many of your posts. I guess that is what this country has come to. Too bad - because we are going to really have to come together to get through the next few years.

Tell Larry Sabato that Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida have all decided to join the "real America" now. The rest of them are still fulminating about the failure of Treason In Defense of Slavery (i.e., the Civil War).

For all the "progressive Southerners" who indeed did make up 40% of the popular vote in the South, for Obama, the unfortunate thing for all of you is no one notices you - and hasn't for all the centuries you've been there - because the asshats and dickwads keep getting voted in, and the snake-handlers and "cracking traders" and the rest of the Southern zoo keep getting elected and making news.

For the life of me, I don't know why you people continue to stay there in that swamp. I say that as a Texas who was fortunate to get the hell out a long time ago.

gee, I am sorry if anyone's feelings are hurt, but when the post is about whining about regional exciusion from the cabinet, that isn't even true, you should expect mockery in return. All in good fun, maybe. But seriously, whinging is whinging.

"It is really hard not to take offense at many of your posts"

Personally, I dont care if you take offence

The South shall rise again. You're just taking this administration off. No need to get anxious about it; it gives you time for neglected hobbies and the extra yardwork engendered by that long growing season.

Susan Rice is from Washington, DC. Which, last time I checked, was "south of the Mason-Dixon line". Oh, but I forgot -- black people don't count as "southerners".

"The anti-southern attitudes here are disconcerting.

You know what's disconcerting? How "the South" always seems to vote Republican, that's what.

I mean, yes, there is a Democratic district or two who will elect a Democrat to Congress, but for the President? Seems to be either a Republican or a DINO FROM the south.

Plus they have this demonstration of the chip on their shoulder. "I'll bad mouth all y'all from New Yawk, and all y'all other Yankees, but I want respect. Now respect this Confederate flag, OK?"

Seriously, get a clue or try again to leave. This time I think we'll let you go, just as long as you take Texass with you. Leave Florida, tho. We have people there.

Sorry, JohnBubba, but maybe you down below the Mason Dixon line know how it feels to be ridiculed, like those of us from the "land of fruit and nuts" whose very city, San Francisco, has been a punch line for Republicrats for years.

Just take pride in doing the right thing, and keep on trying to bring others on board. Once your states have a little longer history of being (gasp) liberal, you might find less derision on a liberal blog.

Still nothing like what WE would get on a red blog, tho.

Is it just me, or does the linked article have *one guy* from the South complaining about this "omission", while all the other Southerners interviewed have no real problems with Obama's selections?

ericfree,

"Obama won three states by narrow margins, and lost the rest of the area."

He won North Carolina and Florida narrowly, but he won Virginia by more than 6 points. I wouldn't call that narrow.

I'm stunned that people actually listen to Mr. Sabato. It took some doing, but I managed to avoid allowing him to mangle MY undergraduate education. Plus, made sure to take the required Amer. Govt. 101 from the other guy.

AJW
CLAS '93