Take A Week - Take Two

Given that the new Congress meets on January 6, and the new President isn't sworn in until Jan 20th, there should be no problem in giving the Republicans a week to look over the proposed legislation, and still be able to get a bill on President Obama's desk by the 20th.

those two idiots were ok with a rush-job a month ago; but now with a Democratic proposal that is, effectively, being vetted as we speak, they want to slow things down ... it's a prelude to killing it, if they can

with a delay, I bet they try to attach some stupid capital gains tax cut or "death tax" proposal to the thing ...

I say, ram it home on the Democratic schedule

This is a lot like the Wall Street Bailout. Republican policies are responsible for the problem. A quick action is needed, and either they don't have a good idea, or they agree with the one that flies in the face of conservative dogma. They can't be seen as being for it, but they have to let it pass. In the Wall Street Bailout, Pelosi refused to pass it without significant Republican support. This time she won't do that, but we should expect the fewest number of Republicans possible to pass the bill. The rest will simply look for any sign of failure, so they can say, "I told you so."

With that in mind, the debate will be over the size and scope of a stimulus package, not whether to have a stimulus package. Given those circumstances, Democrats have reason for at least some optimism.

Nice to see you're still an optimist at heart. Of course there is plenty for Democratic supporters to worry about. How did it work out the last time that the Repubs wanted one solution, and the Dems wanted another slightly different solution? It seems to me like we got stuck with half assed compromises where the Dems capitulate on almost everything while giving the Repubs all of their demands except for purely symbolic (not enforced) provisions. Examples would be the bailout, FISA, investigations, appointment hearings, etc. I could go on for hours.

sjw is right - it's a trick. repugs are never going to let anything - anything - that has a remote chance of being successful get to Obama for signature.

Their single, overarching goal is to destroy this presidency.

Obama, Pelosi and Reid better accept right now that the repugs are nothing but immovable obstacles and start tunnelling around them.

Any admission at all that the dems need a single repug vote means defeat.

I agree that you're being too optimistic. The goal is to appear to support a big stimulus package in principle, but then say that the proposed package was just so awful that they couldn't support it. The Republicans do not do bipartisanship, period.

It's unwise to assume that Republicans care if the entire country goes into a decade-long depression. They don't. I think they'd rather it did -- chances are the really wealthy will remain wealthy, and they can feel even more superior to the poor, who would be even more poor.

Shorter explanation is they don't have the votes. I continue to believe that they will have a very difficult time holding a voting bloc against broadly popular legislation with a Democrat in the White House and only 41 seats.

And that's assuming that Reid continues to act ineffectually.

Some diligence is due. I'll estimate about 25% wastage with this package. Probably about on par with the rest of the federal budget. But, who needs accountants now? Where's mine?

Given those circumstances, Democrats have reason for at least some optimism.

Kick the ball, Charlie Brown.

McConnell and Boehner are essentially powerless here. The states will be on thier knees begging for help. As Soon As Possible. Screwing with this bill is political suicide. There will be more than enough GOP votes for this thing to pass as soon as it's ready. Then the GOP will go back to being the whiney little bitches that they are, crowing about our horrible, horrible President Obama and the librul media.

i'd say your use of the word "irony" is already indicative of your extremely tragic optimism with regard to messieurs Bonehead and McConman.

these boys need to be weeping behind bars, goddam their shit-filled souls...

"Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but looking over the coordinated responses from McConnell and Boehner, I couldn't help but notice that neither of them criticized the idea of massive government spending as a way to stimulate the economy"

It is just wishful thinking. Boehner and Mitchell are just putting a compassionate conservative face on their obstructionist agenda.

The problem is that Obama has been pulling Democratic Senators into his cabinet. Eventually they will be replaced, but it can't be soon enough for me. The Obama seat is the real sticker. There is little chance Illinois will name a new Senator by January 20. We need to get Franken seated as soon as possible.

There is no strategy here. The GOP leadership is in a panic and flailing away. They are doomed.

Masker a 2 trillion dollar package and let the GOP help decide which half gets the ax.

What MUST not be done is present an 850 billion dollar package and have only 300 bill get through. Weak stimulus that the GOP hangs over Obama's neck as having accomplished nothing and give them firepower for tax cuts being the only effective stimulus. We already know that weak stimuli don't help end depressions. (Can we please call it that? Are we to think there has been and will always be only one depression in the 1930's and every other economic contraction no matter how bad is a mere "recession"? If we don't call it one NOW, you know it will be called when when a Democrat is handed the reins.)

With that in mind, the debate will be over the size and scope of a stimulus package, not whether to have a stimulus package.

I hope the debate is framed the same way re healthcare and renewable energy. They can pick around the edges, but it's gonna happen.

Write the package. Bring it to a floor vote. Let them show their strength. Think it's time to shove this one up their ass.

McCon-Job and Bones need to get a visit from my good friend, Mr. Crowbar---and then someone on the Hill needs to give the order for "ramming speed" on the entire Congressional agenda.

Furthermore, the flabby fool on the GOPer side of the Seate floor needs to be given a blunt choice---either lose the obstructionistic mentality, or eat the Nuclear Option. He's part-n-parcel of the Bushylvanian economic plan of blind deregulation that buried us in this fiscal mess in the first place....

Boehnor and the rest of the House Republicans are irrelevant. The real action will be in the Senate. There, the Democrats will give away the Employee Free Choice Act in exchange for Republican support for a watered-down stimulus package (a package which will probably include capital gains tax cut). Having obtained everything they wanted, the Republicans will, true to form, turn around and filibuster the stimulus bill. Lotsa luck on this one.

They are looking for time to crank up the wingnut Whirletzer - Rush and the boys - and hope they can make enough noise against the wind calling for a real package.

Hello???? Anybody in your brain, Steve? What do you think a week of cooling-off is for? Sipping hot cider in the DC winter? They will use it to build support for..hold for it...obstruction!!!

I seem to always be the contrarian in these comments lately.

This is exactly what the conservative party is for. Should we enact a stimulus package with all possible speed. Absolutely. Should we make sure that the 850 Billion dollars we're spending is allocated as carefully as possible and will produce the most return for the money invested. Absolutely. That's what conservatives do. They pause. Wish they'd realized that this was their role when Bernake and Paulson were having wet dreams about the TARP. Maybe we'd have some oversight. Maybe we'd have you know, some insight into where exactly any of that money went. I mean the fed is a private fucking institution and we handed them 700 billion dollars. They could have just be having a year long hooker and coke spree for all we know.

The conservative instinct to pause is a healthy one, and much, much preferable to knee jerk obstructionism and social backwardness that we've seen lately. The conservatives party, which by default is the republican party, will have power again in this country. If we reward the behavior we like we'll encourage the behavior we like.

Just as long as it does not derail Reid's favorite pedestrian bridge for the new Mob Museum in Vegas - Must keep our priorities straight.

I think Boehner and McConnell just want time to make sure plenty of the money will be spent in their districts/states. Repubs will complain so they can pretend to be fiscal conservatives in the next election, but then let the package pass so their voters can benefit from it. Gives repubs the best of both worlds (or the best they can get, since they can't initiate it.) Even if the spending is necessary, it smells like some mighty fine pork.

If Robert Samuelson is for a stimulus, it must be a good idea.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/28/AR2008102802951_pf.html

"Stimulus For the Long Haul

By Robert J. Samuelson
Wednesday, October 29, 2008; A17

No one should be surprised that a powerful political steamroller has developed for a second economic "stimulus" package. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has blessed the idea, and even President Bush has provided vague support. Some congressional Democrats urge a $300 billion plan; some private economists propose up to $500 billion. The case for "stimulus" seems obvious. It's extra insurance against an economic free fall. No one wants a perverse cycle of falling confidence, production, jobs and stocks leading to more loan losses and financial failures -- which then depress confidence, production, jobs and stocks."

Steve: "Delay" is a polite word for killing it any way they can. The goal is the same; only the language has changed.

And it's changed because they're trying to position themselves as the responsible adults-- a classic Rovian lunge at Obama's strength.

Isn't Mitch McConnell one of the guys who tried to kill the 'Big Three' automakers ?

McConnell and Boehner just want to delay and obstruct.
It would be in their interests to have the recovery plan fail
With the Detroit bail out, we've seen Republicans put politics before economic Catastrophe
Before the national well being

Hopefully, the Democrats will get them short shrift
Some oversight, but no delays or obstruction

It's Obama's recovery plan
He has the mandate
Better to get thisngs moving quickly

To all Republican Senators up for reelection in 2010 and all the Republican Representatives:

Political obstructionism during a time of national, economic peril in 2009 EQUALS termination of office in November of 2010!

We the American electorate will be watching a bit more closely this time around as you Republicans maneuver yourselves in the upcoming recovery debate, and we'll be watching for your ideas you offer to help us all out of this economic mess.

If Republicans have no way out of their own, and can only offer obstructionist alternatives, take note, the American voters will not put up with such foolery as we face uncertain times, and will certainly be all too willing to end their political careers in 2010. -Kevo

So maybe Obama/Biden can go with the Democrats for the spending they want, and side with the Republicans to cut any pork and to put in lots of oversight. Paul Krugman seems to think that is why the New Deal succeeded with the public, lots of money, but spent well.

I really think Obama could enjoy quietly encouraging Republicans to assume a position they have long pretended to agree with.

Though I don't normally indulge in such language publicly, there is no better way to say this:

The democratic response to McConnell and Boehner should be a resounding "fuck you".

All the posters above are absolutely right. This is nothing but an attempt to obstruct and kill stimulus without looking like obstructionists. They know that there is huge public support for this and they can't go against that openly. So instead they try to give themselves a way to do it covertly. They want to make it look like they're cooperating while still sinking it.

These are republicans. As has been said over and over, even by *you* Mr. Benen, obstruction is the only choice they have left to be at all relevant, and they know it.

So I say that if they're going to give that inch, then democrats should take the mile. Ram it through whether they like it or not and constantly play their own words back at them. Make it about specific details rather than about whether there should be stimulus at all. And play up even the smallest attempt at obstruction they try.

Though seriously, who thinks for one moment that Congressional democrats will really stand up and do this? Even with a democrat in the White House.

meanwhile, in rome, nero fiddles.

rome burns.

This time, when Mitch the Bitch McConnell threatens a filibuster, the Democrats should respond "OK, starting now." Make the goddamned morons stand up in public and spout their stupidity while the American public gets a good earful and eyeful of these guys. Their ship will be sunk right there.

There's a very long way to go, so I don't see this as a big political fight. There's no real reason for this to be nasty; especially since Republicans are probably still talking in private and trying to decide what their general stance will be.

I suspect that as Bush goes out the Republicans will go along on the stimulus package with their particular take on each of it's elements. No big deal.

I say, if there's time we should give them the week and really take account of their criticisms.

"Republican leaders on the Hill -- who've no doubt talked to economists, counted just how small their minorities are, and noticed Obama's 82% approval rating -- implicitly agreed yesterday that a massive rescue package is, in fact, necessary."

My guess is this had less to do with talking to economists and more to do with talking to business people in their states over the holiday break. I imagine they heard quite a bit from car dealers for example, and construction businesses, and real estate developers.