So you think the problem is that "The challenge, of course, is dealing with the mess Bush created by identifying terrorist suspects that can't be tried in U.S. courts because the evidence against them was obtained through torture." Of course, this is false.

The challenge is what to do with combatants who were captured waging a guerilla/terrorist war against the United States. They might or might not have violated any laws of the United States. That's irrelevant. So is the fact that the troops who captured them didn't bother to collect evidence as if they were detectives on a Law and Order episode.

Thank G-d President-elect Obama has realized what the real problem is.

DBL, problem part 2 is that Obama is still looking to set up some sort of commission system, rather than current civilian courts, to try Gitmo detainees.

Sold to the US by rival warlords, captured by troops, what the fuck ever.

I'm still trying to figure out where this "He said he's going to completely close Guantanamo in his first 100 days" idea came from. Does anyone have a link? I have lots of stuff from ABC News saying that, but no quotes or even blind quotes from Obama or his administration.

I could see starting the process within his first 100 days, but only a fool would think you could resolve all of the effed-up legal issues within three months.

"Obama doesn't want to release potentially dangerous detainees"

Potential? Most of them were likely innocent when they came to Guantanamo. But they aren't innocent anymore. Years of torture have turned them into our enemies. This is the danger of torture. Once you use it, you can't ever let the victims out into society anymore. They will hold some really hard grudges. The Khmer Rouge understood this. When the KR were done torturing, they just killed those people. Scary as it might seem, that's the sensible thing to do. What the victim used to be is already dead. And that is what is so scary about torture. I'm willing to create a rehabilitation program for them, but I don't think it will be effective. But, hey, maybe we can learn something from this. Auhh fuck, who am I kidding?

SocraticGadfly,

Assuming that the detaniees were captured on the battlefield and are not U.S. citizens (and thus subject to the Non-Detention Act), a commission system that is compliant with the Geneva Conventions is the correct way to proceed under the Hague Conventions, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the other relevant international and domestic laws that govern the capture and trial of non-state combatants in a war zone. This system has legitimacy abroad because virtually every country on the planet is a signatory to these treaties and most of our allies urged the use of these well developed proceedures when this situation started. This system was well established long before its codification in the Hague Convention of 1907, and would provide the detainees with a system that has a decades long track record of fairness and legitimacy.

Send them to the The Hague and let Europe sort them out.

You are exactly right about the mess Bush has left Obama, much of the so-called evidence against these detainees is certainly completely worthless since it was obtained under torture and is thus "fruit of the poisoned tree" legally speaking. It's also useless obviously for any real intelligence purposes, since people will say anything when tortured.

In many cases there's no evidence that they are or ever were "enemy combatants" just someone who was turned in for a generic US-offered bounty on brown people who look "al-Qaedish". Finally, there are likely still perpetrators of torture in influential positions desperate to keep the story from being told to evade prosecution for war crimes.

The burning question is still: how can Obama unshit the bed?

"I also will reject a legal framework that does not work. There has been only one conviction at Guantanamo. It was for a guilty plea on material support for terrorism. The sentence was 9 months. There has not been one conviction of a terrorist act. I have faith in America's courts, and I have faith in our JAGs. As President, I will close Guantanamo, reject the Military Commissions Act, and adhere to the Geneva Conventions. Our Constitution and our Uniform Code of Military Justice provide a framework for dealing with the terrorists."
Barack Obama, Washington D.C., 8/01/08
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our laws, derived at least in part from our Constitution, already deal with confessions and testimony elicited using torture. The UCMJ and Geneva also address torture and testimony/confessions. Obama says GITMO prisoners should be afforded justice using these legal structures as a basis for treatment and trial. Fine, wouldn't my confession or testimony in a trial be thrown out if torture produced it? What's the big mystery about what to do with Guantanamo confessions? Throw them out. How the hell do we say "GITMO prisoners have been mistreated and denied due process. We're going to turn a new page. We're going to follow established laws. Well, except we kinda got a couple issues to iron out. You see, well, it's not that easy. And we can't just let any of them go that easy. But we can't give them a fair trial and throw out what we know and still convict. Oh, what a riddle, we'll have to think on this a bit........"
BULLSHIT. Follow the goddamned laws, close the place down and clean up the legal messes. And quit your fucking stammering over it all. Grow some goddamned nads and get it done like you promised.

"Most of them were likely innocent when they came to Guantanamo."
_______________

Yep, because of the thousands of hostile prisoners we rounded up in Afghanistan, we chose only the innocent shepherds, tourists, and religious pilgrims to send to Guantanamo at a cost of over $1 Million per detainee. Because, you know, the military and CIA are all stupid and they have quotas to fill or something. Right. And all those crazy attempts to kill their guards before they left Afghanistan and enroute was just the kind of thing you'd expect from such innocents.

Every Al Qaeda trainee is taught how to present themselves in the press and can be expected to protest their innocence at every opportunity.

we chose only the innocent shepherds, tourists, and religious pilgrims to send to Guantanamo

We've been over this many times before on this blog with you -- the studies proving the origin of the majority of the detainees as non-combatants, the children being held there, the statements of military lawyers on their clients' innocence -- and the hundreds of detainees the Pentagon simply released after years of incarceration because they were, in fact, not guilty of anything.

And the countries who received them back and found no reason to charge them either.

You've lost. And you've been pw3nd once again by corrupt individuals in whom you put your faith. A million dollars per detainee will buy you a toilet seat from a government contractor and a cup of coffee.

Love the desperation, though. Suits you.

You know I was going to comment on Steves ridiculous statement of" Now, this is far from straightforward" but after reading trashbrains comment I have to reply to him.
"Every Al Qaeda trainee is taught how to present themselves in the press and can be expected to protest their innocence at every opportunity". Are you fucking kidding me? Present themselves to the press. Just exactly when did this massive press offensive take place? Yea and every truly innocent man wouldn't protest that they are innocent every single time they get the opportunity. And because they were arrested that makes them guilty?You numbnuts make Sarah Palin look like Einstein.

The burning question is still: how can Obama unshit the bed?

Give them each $50k hush money and release them in whatever country they were captured from. Quietly, no muss, no fuss, and don't inform the local authorities.

Not fair to the poor detainees, who will probably get rolled by the locals. But maybe they won't.

(/bad humor off)

"Yep, because of the thousands of hostile prisoners we rounded up in Afghanistan, we chose only the innocent shepherds, tourists, and religious pilgrims"

Get a grip, we paid people to round up these people. Given more money than they'll ever make in their life, the people we paid turned over the closest people they could find. As long as they weren't their relatives, of course. If you think that's crazy, you need to watch the videos of the the few survivors from the Khmer Rouge. They did exactly the same thing. Except with far less money and less sophisticated torture techniques. The people we rounded up were the best that money could buy in fifteen minutes. Whether they were guilty or not doesn't matter, it makes for great press. Trust me, you throw $10,000 in Afghanistan and everyone and their dog will bring you a "terrorist". You'll have to sift through the dogs, sheep, and horses to get to the people, but you'll get enough to fill Guantanamo. It's all just a show, but it's not so much fun for the actors.