Oh, I can't wait to see how the right-wing reacts to this. They seem to think that we lefties believe Chavez is the greatest thing since artisanal bread, so I expect they'll crow about how we're going to be conflicted now that Chavez has dared criticize Obama. I plan on some counter-mocking.

Now where have we seen this before? The need for a villian to make constituents overlook one's own failures. Ahmadinejad? Contenders for the RNC and Senate/House minority leadership? Palin? But there's someone else on the tip of my tongue, and all I can think of is 46 hours and 42 minutes.

There is no greater embarrassment on this fucking planet than the clown who's held the title of POTUS for the last eight years. Bringing up Chavez only serves as an obfuscation.

What's the main objection, that the statement was impolitic? Undoubtedly. That it was inaccurate? Probably closer to the truth than most people want to think.

It's a sad commentary on the state of Venezuela when you realize that this guy really is the best of their options. Their choice is pretty much between Corrupt & Obnoxious and Racist & Fascist.

This is mostly our fault, having dicked around in South American politics, funding death squads, and knocking over democratic regimes. It's probably better if we stay out of their affairs, they hate us there for some really good reasons.

Goran, I think you're largely correct. We don't talk about the Bipartisan Foreign Policy Establishment for nothing.

After a century of mixing it up it Latin America, killing thousands of people, deposing elected governments to replace them with brutal dictatorships we trained in police state murder and torture tactics, (see for example Nicaragua, Chile, *Venezuela*), you guys are clutching your pearls because of the intemperate words of the democratically elected Hugo Chavez?

Fucking douchebags.

It's a sad commentary on the state of Venezuela when you realize that this guy really is the best of their options. Their choice is pretty much between Corrupt & Obnoxious and Racist & Fascist
Sounds like the good ol USA

Kennedy? I don't know how much a history buff Hugo Chavez is, but if there's one thing JFK was not shy about, it was exercising American power abroad. Bay of Pigs, anyone?

Chavez is merely saying in his forthright and entertaining manner that he knows what the score is and that one US election doesn't change the score.

Obama's charisma allows him to be many things to many people but to rise to become President of the U.S. requires the highest level of political shrewdness and acumen on somebody's part. Obama's team is that shrewd and unlike recent teams, Obama doesn't call his own plays, he owns his team and knows what Chavez is talking about better than Chavez does.

if there's one thing JFK was not shy about, it was exercising American power abroad. Bay of Pigs, anyone?

Yeah but he also nixed Operation Northwoods.

Apart from Chavez's being clownish, I'm not quite sure what Steve in bent out about. As a non-American I also have no expectations of Obama dismantling the U.S. empire. In eight years the U.S. is still likely to be spending half of the world's military budget and still needing to find or create enemies to justify this spending.

This really goes to show how entirely stupid the conservative foreign policy is. Because for as much as it's about us showing "toughness" by refusing to engage diplomatically with our "enemies," those "enemies" need our hatred just as much as Republicans need an enemy to hate. And so by demonizing Castro, Chavez, Saddam, Iran, and North Korea, we've only helped them out. They don't WANT to be on good relations with America. They WANT to use our hatred of them as a way of keeping their population in line, just as the Republicans are doing. And so our non-diplomacy plan has only been helping them out.

And so all America's enemies like Iran, Chavez, and Bin Laden are coming out denouncing Obama as a way of convincing their people to continue to hate America, while trying to convince Obama that he'll have to take a hard stance against them. Because that's exactly what they want. Obama would be stupid for giving it to them. They don't want negotiations or appeasement. They want to be hated. It's the strongest tool they've got for retaining power. And the best thing we can do to undermine them is to use diplomacy to show that we're not the problem. That's how real power works. I think Obama knows that.

I don't believe in the devil, but Chavez wasn't that far off the mark about Bush. Hard to think of many individuals responsible for the deaths and suffering of more innocent human beings over the last 50 years. Certainly all the Islamic terrorist related casualities put together are dwarfed by the horror and misery this evil man has wrought.

As for his remarks about Obama, I'm scared for him, too. Aren't you?

Not sure what he said that was wrong. Crappy treatment of Latin America has been a bipartisan effort of U.S. policy throughout the years. I'd say it is up to Obama to prove that he would be different. Lifting the Cuban embargo would be a good start.

Also, is this a translation? If so I'd be curious to know what word they translated into "stench." The tone would be different if instead you use the words "whiff", "smell," or "odor."

All politics is local and Chavez knows that American power interests will never allow truly normalized relationships between the countries. He does nto want the US as an ally per se. He wants to be seen as a strong leader that stands up to the imperial US. Smart politics by a smart politician. Don't reach out to the US only to get smacked as a weakling. Keep the enemy at arms distance and if the US seeks to normalize relations with him, then he becomes iconic as the man who stared down the Great Imperial Satan.

His comments are no more oafish than what the NYT has said about him.

orange

eric

It sounds like Hugo has been reading 'Bloodlines of the Illuminati'. Nice.

Steve

You fail to mention that Bush and the CIA tried to overthrow Chavez in 2002 and still provide funds to his political opponents but you write as if the USA has never done anything to deserve the belligerance that Hugo throws our way.

C'mon Steve, get a clue.

Also, is this a translation? - jstuddle

The word he used was miasma. I would say stench or polluted air would be the best translation. Here is most of the transcript in Spanish.

Minus the rhetoric (or intentionally bad translation as is often the case), Chavez is saying that despite the election of Obama, the underlying powers in the USA remain unchanged.

Further, that if he tries to fight or change that system he will be killed.

Like Ahmadinejad, most of what Chavez says is truthful but sensationalized in the American media. Transcripts of private conversations reveal him to be very thoughtful and very knowledgable in the history of Latin America especially the nasty things the US government has done.

Chavez is a big fan of Castro. He probably understands that Castro was able to stay in power as long as he has because of American opposition. The US embargo of Cuba was a great gift to Castro in many, many ways. Without it, he could not have survived. It allowed him to exercise totalitarian power far more than he could have if there had been open relations.
Plus, Chavez has oil. Castro had only sugar and the Florida sugar cartel was happy to lose the competition.
oldswede

There was a time, early in Chavez' career as President, that I believed he would bring about a high functioning social democracy like some of the better ones in Europe.

Then somewhere along the way he became a Power hungry fascist. Too bad for Venezuela.

Unless you misreported his words, it seems to me that it is the rightwing neocons who think of the US as a military empire that he is taking shots as, not Obama. In essence, he is warning Obama that these guys are out to kill him if he doesn't serve their interests.

Texas Aggie - As a fellow Texan, I'd say you're earning your name. Which part of "I believe Obama brings the same stench" did they not teach at A&M?

Yes, yes, I kid. I'm sure they teach many fine things in College Station, some of which might even be applicable to the 20th century.

As I noted over at my place this morning, Chavez predicates a great deal of his power on using the Empire (i.e., the US) as a scapegoat for whatever is wrong in Venezuela and/or as a general catch-all enemy. I never thought that would change with Obama, and given that Chavez is dealing with fiscal problems due to the collapse of oil prices and because he is going to try, once again, for unlimited reelection next month, he needs an enemy to rail against.

In terms of the far right in the US and Chavez, it seems that some fear that Obama "will pull a Chavez" (you can't make this stuff up).

It does raise an interesting side point; When (If) Castro dies, should Obama attend the funeral? I say yes......

Texas Aggie - Chavez' message is that he doesn't trust Obama to change, because, despite the rhetoric, he is part of this empire, and if Obama did want to change, he would be killed. He sort of mitigates his message by saying he hopes he's wrong, but he's warning people not to believe the hype.

What Chavez said.

"Bay of Pigs, anyone?"

How about that assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem? It was probably a good idea, but it's still a little out of line.

Do you remember when Chavez was brought up to Obama during the campaign? Obama said scathing things about Chavez, in effect "poisoning the well" in advance of taking office. No doubt, Chavez' petulent comments now are a reflection on what Obama said about him then. I believe Obama may have felt that he needed to look strong in dealing with Chavez since Chavez had been demonized by the Bush administration and, as a result, by much of the MSM.

It is time to tone down the anti-Chavez rhetoric and try to mend these fences rather than creating more unnecessary animosity.

Chavez is only saying what millions of disaffected Americans and Leftists say.

No matter how stupid I think it is.

Well, Crissa, what is your experience of living outside the U.S. and facing U.S. pressure that gives such authority to your dismissal of such thoughts as stupid? Further, that America functions as an empire is hardly the purview of Leftists alone.

Yes, Chavez is hardly a model democrat and maintaining an antagonistic stance is to his advantage. But no, his thoughts are not completely groundless. And remember Otto Reich and the Bushites schemed to overthrow him in 2002 and came close to succeeding. And Democratic presidents have almost as tawdry a record of siding with despots and undercutting popularly elected governments when it was to American imperial advantage. And when the U.S. changes its behavior and slashes its military budget by 50% I will gladly recant my words here.

Chavez needs opposition to keep a stranglehold on his country. Without a perception of a US boogie man, he will probably lose traction and political rivals may be able to step up a bit more than they have been able to.

Chavez got it exactly right. Clinton has many times called Chavez a dictator, and indicated she likes and respects Uribe. Now Clinton is the Secretary of State.

I'm expecting the Clinton-Obama line on Venezuela and Colombia to be the most puke-worthy of the coming disappointments. Obama will be lucky if it doesn't become a worse clusterfuck than Iraq. The Andean nations have had a bellyfull of us.

Like Acorvid, I actually used to think Chavez was pretty cool when he went off on Gee Dubya, calling him "Mr. Danger" and insinuating he was the devil, because he was right. Bush WAS a huge danger to life as we know it, and if he wasn't actually related to Satan, that fiery gentleman would certainly recognize him as a kindred spirit.

However, now that he's raving on about a guy who might actually put America back together again, he just sounds like another tinpot dictator loon. Sorry, Hugo.

Danp,

Thanks for the link in Spanish. He also referred to Obama as a "new fiasco for the world and his own people."

This is an appeal to the base; albeit it's rather baseless.

Chavez ate his disappointment when Venezula voted against his perpetual Presidency. That's democratic, not dictatorial. He doesn't trust us, and Obama has dissed him. I trust and like the both of them and Hillary, too. It will be very interesting to see how everything works out!

I'm with Goran. There's no hate of Obama here. Merely a lack of faith that Obama will be able to significantly disrupt the global corporate machine that mindlessly seeks to dominate mankind (maximum profit, maximum human output, minimal cost... what ELSE can the unrecognized, ultimate goal be?). Excess success in such a venture will lead to great effort to destroy him politically and it's not impossible that physical means could be envisioned.

Chavez expresses a lack of confidence, not malevolence, and not even discouragement. I think he'd be as happy as we would be if Obama were wildly successful in producing prosperity for the masses.

The criticism is unfounded and irrational.

Chavez is correct to say that Obama's life is in danger, that his chances of succeeding are slim (the stench of failure) because he's got a mountain of problems to overcome (fiasco), and that their relations probably won't improve with Clinton at State (except that oil will still flow freely which is all that America really wants from Venezuela). He said that he hoped he would be found to be wrong. We all share this same hope.

What will it take for Obama to succeed? Can he bring us millions if not tens of millions of jobs at good wages, squash the business thieves and tax cheats, stem the tide of red ink, restore the manufacturing sector, reign-in the military, restore our ailing health and education, and still invest in research and infrastructure?

This administration brings along pie-in-the-sky expectations to vanquish all of our collective problems. Chavez sees through this haze of hope, and instead sees this rhetoric as monkees flying out of our butts.

“Chavez sees through this haze of hope, and instead sees this rhetoric as monkees flying out of our butts.�

This gave me a good laugh right or wrong it is funny and probably more right than wrong. I do giggle to myself when Obama has such an incredible up hill battle not just with the jazzed up economy screwed up International war, and social paradigm with the Black population. Let’s face it white society is dumping a huge burned on Obama, here Obama willing to endure it or just plain crazy.

What am I talking about? And I know there is a huge amount of debate for this right or wrong it exits in the background. Obama, in his speeches brought forth the core issue of the Black social impact on White America. We know the White marriage isn't that good either. So what to do?

For me, the single most important issue to address, and resolve in America. It is that fifty percent of the Black population, of parent in America, is single mothers.

Black men in America have displayed a wide open challenge to community or family values or simple disrespect for vows to marital dedications to have a statistic that high. The white population isn't doing to well either. Or even though being reverend is an open debate in Black America the respect of it is of diminished ideals with chants and chorus that display Ebonics in ceremony tied to Hip Hop Hate. For me and debate to argue closely resembles Islamic theocracy. Heck White Southern cable bible shows display a huge core of what is wrong with America.

I once read even Lincoln said, I don’t know how true that “The Black Man will be the Abomination of America�. So I guess we are putting it to the test of time. Let’s hope what Lincoln said and Chavez said about monkey's and our ass is wrong…