Commuting their sentences is not the same as pardoning them. It seems Bush is trying to please everyone on this.

OK, commuting the sentence of someone who shot an illegal alien in the back is not the kind of symbolic gesture I would have expected. Although I suppose Bush might see a parallel between this and starting a war without accurate intel.

I wonder if Campeon and Ramos will go on Lou Dobbs' show and say their biggest disappointment was not finding drugs on the guy after shooting him.

I listen to a lot of right-wing AM radio, so I know how popular these guys are in that set, and I'm not at all surprised that Bush did this. The merits of the actual case seem to be lost under a lot of media obsfucation, so I can't comment on whether it's right or wrong, but it seems typical Bush cowardice to wait until now to actually do something. I mean, if these guys *were* unfairly imprisoned, in solitary no less, then why wait? And if the sentence was just, why commute it?

Filth

Of course the righties are in favor of making heroes of manly men who take the law into their own hands in the pursuit of "final justice" and blow away some wetback. And if he was a drug-runner to boot, then he was asking for it, right???

Dick Cheney will likely get his pardon at 11:59 a.m. EST tomorrow.

This is not to say it was entirely a partisan matter. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)...

That's crazy. It's almost like she stands to gain in some way, perhaps financially, from increased security contracting.

Isn't that weird?

Filth,

A good case can be made that Bush made the exactly correct decision here. Those guys probably shouldn't have shot the guy and defintely shouldn't have tried to cover up the shooting.

Bush's pardon doesn't forgive the crime, but it commutes what many believe was an excessive sentenc.

The radio report I just heard about this said it's the final act of clemency, and there will be no more pardons/commutations. If that's true, guess Ted Stevens is out in the cold, eh?

And the same radio (Fox News of all things) made a big point of the fact that this was a commutation, not a pardon, and made it sound like a big deal. So we can hope that the wingnuts will still be upset by it. And they're still guilty bastards who shot an unarmed man in the back and then tried to cover it up.

Just heard on Fox News radio that these will be the last 2 acts of clemency. There will be no more.

For some reason, I'm totally okay with this. For one thing, it removes this issue from the table so Obama doesn't have to deal with it.

But I just didn't see the victim here. The fact that the guy was unarmed is unimportant. We only know that he was unarmed because the Border Patrol was able to stop him.

It is a cat-n-mouse game down there, and the rules are pretty simple. If you get caught, you give up. If the Border Patrol gets close enough to shoot your ass, give in.

Anyway, the guy didn't give in and the local USA also did the right thing according to law.

Bush found a compromise which at least maintained the rule of law. Border agents know they may have to at least endure a trial and beg for mercy if they screw up.

The downside is giving Lou Dobbs any amount of pleasure. I wonder if he chipped in on any of their legal bills? Probably not.

The article that was linked to had this paragraph deep inside.

Bush technically has until noon on Tuesday when President-elect Barack Obama is sworn into office to exercise his executive pardon authority, but presidential advisers said no more were forthcoming.

That may have been FOX News' source, of course. Otherwise it confirms the FOX News report.

Using Diane Feinstein as a marker is not objective. While she won her race as a Democratic member, she usually has her head placed firmly up bush's ass (and is licking his boots at the same time). This may be a good trick for a porn star, but it doesn't differentiate Diane from other right wing nutz.

tomj, "shot while trying to escape" is not usually acceptable from America's law enforcement, nor is shooting in the back, nor is shooting someone who's unarmed and not a threat to the law enforcement personnel.

A pardon would have given tacit approval to that kind of behavior from law enforcement; commuting the sentence is much more palatable than a pardon, although it still sends some message that shooting suspected criminals isn't as bad as all that. But the argument has been made that the sentences were too excessive; I don't really know about that, but if true, commuting the sentences was the right thing to do.

Put me down with tomj. I have absolutely no sympathy for the guy they shot and any other coyotes or drug smugglers coming over the border from Mexico, I really don't. It's not like the border cops can pursue them back over and arrest them there.

If that makes me a wingnut, better send me my washer.

Rule of law, Sarah. Either it's OK to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back, or it's not. You can't say "Well, if they're suspected-but-not-convicted drug smugglers, it's OK, but not for graffiti artists in our cities" or "Hmmm, if they're fleeing the country, we can shoot them in the back, but if they're just going over state lines, we can't."

Well, I suppose you *can* say that. But it's not how I thought our country worked.

I will take Ted Steven's going without his pardon and a nice flip off for Senator Murkowski in the process for the border patrol agents being set free. And that is only one of many pardons I'll be glad to see that Shruby has made the CHOICE not to pursue.

If this is truly the extent of Shruby's pardons then I'm already feeling about .0001/gram, (stop me before I add another zero), more kindly to the idiot. We'll see if he makes it through tomorrow.

Bush can't issue pardons for himself or Cheney, since neither of them have been charged with anything.

That's not so say that he wouldn't issue pre-emptive pardons if he could, but I don't think that he can.

-Z

I have absolutely no sympathy for the guy they shot

Good on you. Nor do I. But that doesn't mean that law enforcement can screw up an arrest, shoot a fleeing and unarmed opponent, and then try to hide it. Maybe the sentences handed down to these two assholes were too harsh, but watching Dobbs and other morons portray them as heroic angels, wrongly imprisoned for the crime of trying to keep America safe from those greasy Mexicans is pretty stomach-churning.

capitalistimperialistpig-

So what kind of sentence is appropriate for a LEO who unlawfully shoots a suspect and then covers up the crime?

Filth

It took Bush this long to grant clemency? It should have been done 2yrs. ago. It's that big level of 'care' that Bush is known for.

btw...sarah...not quite wingnut but consider if the suspect was shot in error or was the wrong person etc. It's why laws are in place and not given to mood of the moment. He was unarmed...coud they not have chased him down etc.? Plus, covering up the crime makes the officers corrupt no matter how they try to 'justify' their illegal behavior. You don't want to condone behavior from those who might think, "Hell, kill 'em all. They're just a bunch of scum low life druggies."

Marijuana should not even be illegal...it's not heroin for God's sake and certainly not as bad as alcohol. You're making assumptions based on assumptions when a whole other scenario is more likely. That is why we have laws and courts and these two broke the laws and then covered it up.

Wingnuts just want their way and law is just a matter of convenience. Facts certainly aren't allowed to get in the way when emotion rules.

"Bush can't issue pardons for himself or Cheney, since neither of them have been charged with anything."

Not true.

There's debate about whether a prez can pardon himself, but all constitutional lawyers agree that legal charges aren't prerequisite for a presidential pardon.

It's the one "kingly" power granted by the Constitution.

This was always the "Free Mumia" of the right, and for that reason alone, I'm glad I won't have to hear about it again.

I think it's a little too late for Bush to get any traction. It's an injustice he ignored for too long. The Coyote-in-Chief is on the side of the Mexicans and corruption in enforcement of immigration laws. It was probably finally resolved as a favor to some crony.

The post and the commenters are mostly ignoring: these Agents are also accused of covering up what they did, so it just isn't about whether it was OK to shoot the fleeing drug dealers.

Bush can't issue pardons for himself or Cheney, since neither of them have been charged with anything.

That's not so say that he wouldn't issue pre-emptive pardons if he could, but I don't think that he can.

Zorro, where were you in 1974 when President Ford granted a "a full, free and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon," who then had not been charged with any criminal offense,* for all "offenses against the United States" during the period of his presidency?
_________________________
*Nixon had been named as an "unindicted co-conspirator" in an indictment of several of his underlings.

From George Bush's White House statement: "Bush didn’t pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said.
The action by the president, who believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just, does not diminish the seriousness of their crimes, the official said."

The president "...believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just..."

The "excessive sentence," btw, is one mandated by Congress, which fell all over itself sucking up to the "3 Strikes," "Law-and-Order" crowd; it's funny how - when applied to some of their own - sentences become "excessive." However, 10 years for holding a couple joints is just fine by them....

Ramos and Compean were - are - guilty, and found so by a jury of their TEXAS(!) peers. Even George W. Bush thinks that.

Unbelievable.
Randolph Scott couldn't shoot an ARMED man in the back.

Of course, in the real world, this just means that the coyotes will start packing, and shooting first. I'm sure their brother officers are thanking them for that.

Read the transcripts and you will find out that the Associated Press et al just parroted the prosecutor's side of the story. If you read the transcripts you will end up with a clear conviction that these guys were railroaded and a lot of the government's witnesses lied under oath, and strangely enough, received promotions shortly thereafter.

Moreover, its funny how none of the coyote's past and relevant extra curricular activites were allowed to come into play at the trial or the fact that while receiving immunity for his crimes he was doing other illegalitites that Mr Sutton had to prosecute him for. This case was not black and white, becasue the prosecution went for broke in order to please those across the border.

I don’t know what exactly happened during the evening that these 2 BP agents were involved in a shooting with an ILLEGAL DRUG SMUGGLER. I have read court transcripts and listened to opposing arguments from people who have NO knowledge of border issues, interjecting and voicing their opinions, as though they do. I was not there, nor were any of you…we have no idea but to speculate as to what happened.
I imagine it was a typical day as any other. These officers ran their traffic over the radio for any number of people to hear…supervisors were notified as well as fellow officers, back up arrived, shots were heard. I think this is a true testament as to how this system is BROKEN. They were not hiding what they were doing! People knew and those people were above them. (Period)
Writing this post will someday get me fired or not promoted or some other form of retaliation…but that is the way this system works…in law enforcement anyways; federal or otherwise. The people above these 2 officers be it supervisors, chiefs, Agents in Charge, those at headquarters in D.C., always want to save face. If someone is going to fall it sure isn’t going to be them. So if you don’t think you hit him don’t write a report…besides you save me the trouble of writing mine…and I don’t have to send one to those ignorant pencil pushers in D.C. because they will create 100 new policies and standard operating procedures from their nice air-conditioned offices on capital hill. (NONE OF THE POLICIES WILL WORK THEY NEVER DO. THEY CONTRADICT EACH OTHER!!!!!)
So by design you are going to fail. Do your job and if someone runs don’t chase him because we won’t cover you if you hurt yourself but don’t let him go because you will be fired.…all the while the illegal’s, felons, drugs, and terrorists saunter in. If someone is shooting at you while on patrol and those shots come from Mexico don’t shoot back even if you have a clear target. Please remember Be Professional: Benvenidos al los Estados Unidos or Welcome to the United States.
So the difference between the two is the TALKERS and the DOERS. Border Patrol, CBP, ICE, Secret Service, State and Locals are doers and those above them are talkers.
Doers do things.
Talkers talk about things people have done or should do.
Unfortunately, the talkers get a lot of other talkers to influence them as to what the doers should do. Many of these people HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE as to what they are talking about. And so the ball rolls.
It may appear that I am disgruntled; this is truly not the case. I love my country and those in it no matter their origin. I do however have a problem with the way it is run. I believe if I have a problem in math I talk to a mathematician, if I have a heart problem I talk to a doctor, and my house collapses an architect. Why would I ask Congress to fix my fence or a dispute with my neighbor when they live 2000 miles away and has never spoken to ME the person who deals with the situation daily? I already know the response but I have Google and 25$ to waste and I probably could come up with a more reasonable and cost effective approach.
I think it should be mandatory for any person coming into office be it Congress, the Senate or even at a state level to do some (OJT) On the Job Training. I believe that prior to taking office they should spend 3 months minimum in each of the following fields: Law e enforcement, Public school systems, and Emergency rooms. I am not talking about the classic publicity stunt but the most challenging of cities and NO CAMERAS.
P.S. My mother was an immigrant and I am Mexican and if any ethnicity feels unduly chastised. Kiss my ass and go back to school because you missed the point of the argument. Also if you choose the way you vote because of what you watch on TV kiss my ass as well and buy a book one on each side and the truth lies in the middle dumb ass.