Shorter Norquist - We'll look better if we give them bad ideas.

Well, at least he walks the walk.

They get them from the shallow end of the gene pool.

The level of insult is comparable to telling Edgar Bergen to stop listening to Charlie McCarthy.

it's better for everyone if GOP lawmakers don't rely on right-wing shock-jocks for wisdom and legislative strategies, especially those who root against America.

Make that right-wing shock jocks who root against America only when it suits their needs. I mean, if Limbaugh rooted against America all the time, he would still be evil, but at least then he would be consistent.

Where do they get these guys? Not all rattlers from the annual rattle snake hunts go into skinning and "tastes like chicken" recipes.

I can think of a number of conservatives to permanently ignore--add to the list Dennis Miller, Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin, Michelle Malkin, that blond woman on 'The View,'...anyone who's an egocentric attention junkie with nothing of substance to contribute.

Well, what should the GOP do? Collaborate? They might as well close up shop, then, since what Obama is doing runs counter to the theft and pillage that the GOP likes to engage in, whenever it gets a chance.

They'll run Obama up the mast every chance they get, and we better get used to it, because it will never stop and only get worse.

Congressional Republicants should listen to Grover Norquist talking about how to be happy in the minority. They should realize they've been neutered and then they'll be happy and sedate.

"it's better for everyone if GOP lawmakers don't rely on right-wing shock-jocks"

Nah, I want to personally thank Rush Limbaugh for helping the public to see Republicans as stark raving mad. If we're lucky, Republicans will continue getting their marching orders from these fringe lunatics.

They'll run Obama up the mast every chance they get, and we better get used to it, because it will never stop and only get worse.
Posted by: SteinL on January 24, 2009 at 10:55 AM | PERMALINK
******************

Unless these guys are marginalized and hopefully, shamed by the growing reality-based community, including by the few moderate and potentially fair-minded Repugs who are starting to come to their senses.

Put this together with the previous item on GOP (and where does that come from? As an American political party, it's not particularly old and for the last hundred and forty years has been conspicuously unGrand) hysteria over the nonrevival of the Fairness Doctrine. Bring ethics, responsibility and a sense of fairmindedness to AM talk radio and Fox News? Who cares? They more they effluviate, the smaller the Right shrinks down to its hysterical hardcore 27% or whatever it is. And as Obama said, that's no way for responsible people to get things done. Enough wingnutting may even provide an impetus for the MSM to dissociate from them out of embarrassment and actually do their jobs for once. So let them blow; it's all entertainment to me. (And see Ron Rosenbaum's piece today in Slate ripping Billy Joel for a career of smugness, hypocrisy and general ineptitude, sort of a talking head of pop.)

Well, what should the GOP do? Collaborate? They might as well close up shop, then, since what Obama is doing runs counter to the theft and pillage that the GOP likes to engage in, whenever it gets a chance.

SteinL raises a good point, one I've wondered about myself, and finally resolved.

This GOP doesn't have any other strategy, because the people who have been in control of the party for 20 years never had an actual governing strategy - they simply excelled in political tactics designed to attract the most attention. But there actually would be a way for a true conservative (more conservative than the center-right Dems) party to function as a loyal opposition on any number of issues. Instead of whining about "welfare" in the form of tax cuts to people who don't pay income tax, they could acknowledge that in terms of immediate economic stimulus, this makes sense even though it's something they would oppose in a better economic climate. They could argue for stimulus spending as seed-money loans for startup of green or new economy jobs, acknowledging that undoubtedly some of the loans would never be paid back, but this is a better solution than just giving money away and that those businesses that do succeed will make up for the losses through economic multiplier effects.

They could be conservative, in other words, while not being simply obstructionist dicks and bullies. And they probably would succeed in getting some concessions - a stimulus package more in line with conservative ideals.

But as noted previously, that's not going to happen, because these guys got into office by being obstructionist dicks and bullies. It's all they know.

The GOPers know this for certain, if Obama and the Dems succeed in beginning to correct all the utter pathetic mishaps that Bush and cronies have wrought on our country it will doom the GOP for decades to come. That's why right wing radio and TV have filled their networks with all the fear and loathing that you hear and see today. We can expect this and more from these idiots who hold their ideology and "religion" more sacred than the well-being our country.

Someone needs to tell Norquist that chanting "Tax cuts for the Rich" 10 times is not the same as coming up with 10 ideas.

Strategies based on stale politics will always be rejected by the ever growing 21st century smart voting contingent of our electorate.

Entrenched vested interests will no doubt be greatly tested by this new presidency!

Let's keep our eyes on the likes of Norquist. -Kevo

if Obama and the Dems succeed in beginning to correct all the utter pathetic mishaps that Bush and cronies have wrought on our country it will doom the GOP for decades to come.

Exactly right. Obama's failure is their only path to relevance in the years to come. Unless the new administration crashes and burns (bringing the country down with it), the GOP future is as a dwindling regional party, and probable oblivion.

The Republicans' biggest problem is the same one they've long had: their worldview is wrong. Like other authoritarian ideologies, it's failed in practice and discredited itself to the point that its considerable advantages (money, propaganda infrastructure, sympathetic media, simplistic message) can't sustain it any longer.

Yet the GOP can't abandon its ideology; there's nothing else there to define them. What you are hearing from Limbaugh is the death rattle.

"You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done," - Obama

Got that, Rush? Don't let go of them ankles! HA!

I have a strange uncontrollable urge to throw my shoe at Limbaugh's face.

Republicans find "these guys" and gals inside their collective Rectum. And yay Obama! I barely can forgive Gore for once calling Rush a "great American" - the whole make nice thing fails, those feral conservatives consider it a sign of weakness.

The triumph of hope and change over fear and greed.

The Republican talking points are starting to get old to the usual media guys as well.

Yesterday David Shuster and Chris Matthews both scratched there heads over comments by House Republicans.

The stimulus is being described as being both "too big" and not kicking in quickly enough. The parts going to unemployment or increased tax credits are said to be the wrong kind of stimulus, which will wear off in a few years. The infrastructure will not kick in for a few years, so that is also bad. Strangely the only stimulus that appears to fit into the Republican critique are permanent tax cuts to people who actually pay taxes, that leaves out the working poor or the unemployed.

Matthews at one point summed it up: "you are saying that there is some short term stuff which will last a few years, then some long term stuff will kick in in a few years, it sounds like a perfect mix." Apparently Matthews hadn't gotten the point...hopefully that happens more often.

"Welcome to the one party state. Gitmo will soon be shut down, but not to worry, it will soon be replaced by the gulags for those who dare to dissent from the Messiah." - Ron Gross

Well it can't be any worse than the LAST one party government that did so much to make this country a better place.

"Where do the Republicans find these guys?" For years the party has been overtaken by a lunatic fringe that seeks hegemony, semi-fascist or otherwise. Haven't you noticed?

"You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done," - Obama

Well, I'm going to have to disagree. Bush and Cheney listened to Rush and Grover and look what we got: a complete fraking disaster.

I think Obama meant you can't get anything GOOD FOR YOUR COUNTRY done.

Ron Gross, you idiotic paranoid fantasy about Obama locking up dissenters when he is so open-minded and perhaps too nice to the other side, just shows us again why our views on rightards are correct. I wish I could hold you to actual bets with all of us either that or how things turn out (the latter being a judgment call but "the public interest" is the criterion, not "rich people and Republicans."

Where do they find these guys?

They are all around us.

Robert Altemeyers' studies show about 25%of any given population will be RWA, right-wing authoritarians.
Authoritarians are attracted to conservatism, because of the perceived security it provides their small, Machaevalien worldview.
I say keep a big, bright light on them, show them as the out-of-touch morons they are. Confront them whenever possible, point out their contradictions and call them stupid. Laugh in their face when everyone is looking. Watch them shrink and shrivel like a salted slug in the sun.

" The trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to realize there is such a thing as being smart" K. Vonnegut

Maggots like Limbaugh and Norquist can usually be found under rocks, although occasionally they come slithering out of the offices of shyster lawyers.

Thank you Al B Tross! More of us should be quoting more and more Vonnegut here in the 21st century - it may prove to be the only thing to keep us sane! -Kevo

Odd what I remember from Edmund Burke, Ron. I hear that name and think of the quote about the ungrateful cur, biting the hand that feeds it.

Rather like the current incarnation of the GOP - not smart enough to heed the wise counsel of the godfather of their movement.

You people are mean spitrited kooks. You may want to try getting outside of your bubble and having an open RESPECTFUL dialogue with someone you do not agree with.

Steve Benen obviously doesn't listen to Rush's show. If he did, he would know that the problem is that Republicans don't listen to Rush and haven't for the past 10 years. Now, I don't particularly agree with everthing Rush says, especially on his ideas of how the Republicans can get their groove back. I also think he is a little out of touch with ordinary, middle class Americans since it has been a long, long time now since he was one. However, I whole-heartedly agree with him that it is becoming a major problem with Republicans signing off on massive spending and these stupid bailouts. The base of the party is screaming bloody murder when this happens and yet the elected representatives of our party continue to tell our base to go screw ourselves. That's the elephant in the room (no pun intended) that no one is talking about.

I do love it when the trolls pick up their petticoats and flounce out with a swish, denouncing the DFHs who populate this site with some version of "You can't handle the truth!"

You reap what you sow, Patsy.

I don't ever remember the evil GW telling anybody who they should listen to. Talk about an imperial president. A couple of days on the job and he thinks he has enough wisdom to tell us to whom we should listen to.

Tax Cuts

Sm. Business Tax Cuts

Tax Cuts

Sm. Business Tax Cuts

Tax Cuts

Sm. Business Tax Cuts

Tax Cuts

Sm. Business Tax Cuts

Tax Cuts

Sm. Business Tax Cuts

That's ten, let us know if you need any more.

Grover's suggestions are good ones if you're a repub politician. They can win some points if the economy doesn't snap back as fast as voters think it should.

I hate George Bush. Now will you let this post stand. I doubt it.

"I don't ever remember the evil GW telling anybody who they should listen to. Talk about an imperial president. A couple of days on the job and he thinks he has enough wisdom to tell us to whom we should listen to."

Posted by: George on January 24, 2009 at 2:22 PM

How about the line from the Bushies re: Bill Maher after 9/11. How'd that go again? "people need to be careful about what they say" .

Or maybe it doesn't bother you that the Bushies weren't so much into complaining about who people listen to (or who one takes advise from, which appears to be the proper context of the Obama quote in question) Maybe the Bushies just wanted control over what people say?

And you're OK with that?

They don't have to FIND these guys, they ARE these guys.

I just don't get it! If a major spokesperson for any other cause other than 'the folks that call themselves conservative' was an addict, thrice divorced, user of welfare, caught with someone else's Viagra in a locale known for underage prostitution, college drop-out, the Republicans would explode with indignity that such a person would speak for their causes. Why doesn't Limbaugh get called out for this crap. Didn't Couric have him on primetime news? WTF?

You people are mean spitrited kooks. You may want to try getting outside of your bubble and having an open RESPECTFUL dialogue with someone you do not agree with.

So we're supposed to be respectful towards people who have spent the past 8 years calling us traitors and are now saying things like, "Obama wants you to grab your ankles and bend over"?

Little hint, Patsy: if you want people to respect you, you have to respect other people. You can't say whatever rude thing you want and then demand that other people treat you with courtesy at all times no matter what you said to or about them. Most people learn that by kindergarten.

Mean spirited kook for Patsy:
Don

Actually Moderator it would IMHO be better to leave commenters like Don in there, so we can see what they are like and so they can't complain about censorship.

patsy? You first. Be the bigger person, what would you like to respectfully talk about? Come on, I'm totally biting what you're serving. Start a respectful topic of conversation, and I'll respond.

But if it's not respectful, I'll respond in kind. I suspect others will as well. I'd respectfully suggest double-proofreading your next post, just to make sure it is respectful.

Well if you had pasted the whole quote in context you have heard him say "If Obama intends to govern like Reagan I would wish him success...but if he intends to move the country radically left and govern like a socialist I do hope he fails!" That sounds like a cogent point to me. I have nothing personal against Pres Obama and wish him well, but if he is pursuing policies I think are bad for the country, of course I would want him to fail in that. When he is pushing something I think is good for the country, I would want that to pass. Simple common sense. Since lefty policies crush individual entrepreneurial achievement and punish success, I would want them to fail to win passage also. Like taking billions from productive folks and using for pork giveaways and wealth transfers. On the flip side, I hope his promised assault on Taliban and jihadist forces in Afghanistan is 100% successful. Besides, no one who spent the last eight years calling fmr Pres Bush a "nazi" and a "chimp", who cast hate and indiginities at Bush supporters, who laughed when Moveon.org called General Petreaus "General Betrayus", or who enjoyed movies fantasizing about Bush's (DOAP) assassination, has any standing from which to comment about those who criticize our new president. I, and those the right, on the other hand know how to respect my president's office and job, while still disagreeing over policy preferences, and fighting for the ones we think are best.

You people are mean spitrited kooks. You may want to try getting outside of your bubble and having an open RESPECTFUL dialogue with someone you do not agree with.

Sort of like the constant parade of so-called Xtians who want to be talked to nicely while always knowing the people they don't agree with are going to that hot, fiery nasty place for ever and ever. Yes, that's respectful all right.

Love You Rush 24/7. So glad we have you!

I just don't get it! If a major spokesperson ...was an addict, thrice divorced, ... college drop-out, the Republicans would explode with indignity that such a person would speak for their causes. - Bathrobespierre

Well, except for the college drop-out part, which would be a badge of honor.

Who pays Rush all that money (many millions) and why? Chances are that Rush speaks for billionaires.

Anyone without a net worth of $10 million that listens to this jerk is probably being set up for a walletectamy. Worked the last time, didn't it?

Ah, David you're missing the point, and probably intentionally so.

Yeah, we called Bush a Nazi and a chimp and worse. We anticipated his policies would fail. We predicted as such. We explained why. And we were always right. But we NEVER HOPED for failure. That way, treason lies. Oh, sure, the right SAID that the left was hoping Bush's Administration would fail. The right SAID we were traitors and anti-American and terrorist-appeasers. The right said lots of stupid things lo these eight years, and often without proof. All gut, no thinky.

SO fine, feel free to predict and anticipate failure on Obama's part. Prepare for it, stuff money in mattresses, build a panic room, whatever you want to do. Try to convince us he's wrong and why. Shout from the mountains why we're all wrong (we've been there and we know how it feels). But when you openly hope that Obama's policies fail, with so much at stake for the good of our nation, you might as well burn a flag at a Big And Rich concert while wearing an "I Heart Bin Laden" t-shirt. I won't say it's anti-American, freedom of speech and all that. I WILL say it's douchey. Because I have freedom of speech, too.

"Where do Republicans find these guys?"

They teleport them in from Bizarro World.

They have become THE PEOPLE'S OBSTRUCTIONIST PARTY...(POP). That is it. They have no plans or policies that have not proven failures so this is all they do now...obstruct. Name one policy that worked for the good of the people's welfare that these guys have done...just one.

POP only tries to block progress in order to protect their holdings.

David, I don't know where you got your quote but here is something, maybe not all, Rush said with context. It is not that conditional claim:

From http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/20/limbaugh-obama-fail/

Limbaugh told his listeners that he was asked by “a major American print publication� to offer a 400-word statement explaining his “hope for the Obama presidency.� He responded:

So I’m thinking of replying to the guy, “Okay, I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.� (interruption) What are you laughing at? See, here’s the point. Everybody thinks it’s outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, “Oh, you can’t do that.� Why not? Why is it any different, what’s new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what’s gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don’t care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: “Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails.� Somebody’s gotta say it.

BTW up there I meant plain "Don" who was deleted, not Don SinFalta who made a clever quip.

"especially those who root against America."
One thing Limbaugh has never done is root against America.
Obama is not America.
Now Harry Reid and Obama along with most democrats both DID root against America in Iraq.
Shall they ignore themselves?

hey, cedric, might want to tuck your hair back in, it's starting to slip through that giant tinfoil hat you're wearing.

"Where do Republicans find these guys?"

They clone them, from ADULT stem cells to be sure.

Just like photocopies, there's a bit of deterioration every time you make a copy, so by the time they got to Trent Franks and David Vitter, the copy was pretty dismal. Lamebow was a higher order copy. Norquist may have been the original.

As tacky as RL's verbage might be, if you really do believe that Obama's direction is the wrong direction for the country to take and it will actually make problems worse - a situation, by the way, that history tells us is certainly possible - then it is indeed very patriotic to dissent. Evita Peron's wonderful speaking ability and "inspiration" to the people didn't stop the Peronist government of Argentina from turning similar problems to the ones were having today in to a multidecade depression that they never truly recovered from, and yes, you would see a temporary economic boost from "welfare checks" but you would see a bigger economic boost from Infrastructure investment (Obama has proposed some, but it should be the primary substance of his plan) combined with low capital-end (marginal and capital gains) taxes, which actually creates a production base for the long-run instead of artificially inflating the economy with consumption to the point where later correction must happen (essentially what we've been doing for the past 8 years.)

If you can't promise the businessman something he can rely on 5 years from now, he has no reason to expand production - at best, he'll avoiding going out of business till the money runs out.

to Patsy who said:

You people are mean spirited kooks. You may want to try getting outside of your bubble and having an open RESPECTFUL dialogue with someone you do not agree with.

Were you referring to that bubble Sarah Palin kept on talking about? You know; real America.

How does it feel to wake up in REAL America and realizing that it was you who had been living in a fantasy world? All this time you believed Sarah's speeches and thought we were evil, traitors, socialists, un-american, and many more less savory names.

There are support groups for people like you, with 12-step programs to help you recover from your conservative addiction. Don't worry: The real world isn't all that bad. There is no need to keep retreating to your safe fantasy kingdom.

When you unclench your fist, you'll find there will be many liberals willing to extend a helping hand.

Obama is largely pissing in the wind, here. For the most part, if Rush Limbaugh did not exist, these very same republicans would have been replaced by people who were more sane.

As tacky as RL's verbage might be, if you really do believe that Obama's direction is the wrong direction for the country to take and it will actually make problems worse - a situation, by the way, that history tells us is certainly possible - then it is indeed very patriotic to dissent.
Posted by: Jeremy Janson on January 24, 2009 at 8:54 PM | PERMALINK

Well, Jeremy, with all due respect (and certainly more respect than anything Rush Limbaugh says deserves), there is a BIG difference twixt:

"I think he will fail"
or "I know he will fail"
or even "There is no way in Hell he won't fail"

and

"I WANT HIM TO FAIL."

Of course, Republicans, being the bitter rigid douchnozzles that they are, can't see the difference. It's why, for the past 8 years, whenever anyone was brave enough to question Bush's policies or point out where they were wrong, or predict the damage they will do, those people were branded by the right as terrorist-sympathizers or anti-Americans or traitors ("Why do you hate the troops?" was asked on more than one occasion). And because of this - this belief that the left WANTED Bush to fail, instead of merely KNOWING Bush would fail, they feel it is within their right to wish Obama's failure.

And if you can't see the difference, than you just flat-out don't want to see the difference. And that is why I, personally, hope at a certain point, Obama tells the GOP to eff off and start playing hardball. Use his weekly address to point out the very GOP Senators and Representatives who put holds on his choices for cabinet or staff positions, or threaten to filibuster bills he wants to pass into law. Let the constituents know exactly who is standing in the way of progress, and let those schnozzles know how their constituents feel when they're up for re-election. You see, Obama has capital. POLITICAL capital. And if it's necessary, he should spend it.

This may be off topic, but certainly pertains to Republicans to watch for.

I just read this blog DAVID FRUM, THE BIG TENT, AND SPLENETIC CONSERVATIVES at this "Right Wing Nut House" website.

Whether you like Republicans and conservatives or not; This guy makes a lot of sense. These conservatives are the ones we need to worry about; they actually have brains, and they're using them.

We can only hope that the media keeps focusing on the social conservatives, because it increases the ratings due to their wacko belief systems.

As long as we manage to associate Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Michele Malkin, Grover Norquist, the televangelists, Larry Craig, Jack Abramoff, Cunningham, etc... with being the face of the Republican Party then moderate people will refrain from voting for them, or take them serious.

It's a lengthy article, but well worth to understand what is going on in 'true' conservative circles - the ones with brains.

The knuckle draggers, and trolls we get here on Steve's blog are easily ignored. Because they are the masses that will do whatever they are told - regardless of who's at the head of the Republican party - it is imperative that we encourage them to stick with the social conservative agenda. That is the guaranteed way for Democrats and Progressives to to keep the majority.

And you, slappy maggoo, are too dumb to see the difference between defending a person and defending an idea.

As usual the comments by Rush Limbaugh are taken out of context. I saw the interview, he was referring to the president's economic policy, as in what if it fails......

NOTE TO PRESIDENT OBAMA:

Do not use metaphors with Republicans.
They weren't covered in Bible school. It takes staffers a week to explain each time and we've got too much to do.

As for Norquist:
They say they want 10 ideas? OK, here are 10 ideas. The next time they say they want 10 ideas, we say that they asked before, and, just for the record, they rejected our ideas. When you get to May, who's the obstructionist and who's the collaborator?"

Have they OFFERED 10 ideas? Do they HAVE 10 ideas? Are they CAPABLE of 10 ideas?

And a note to Norquist:
The words "tax cuts" can only be used ONCE in the list of ten.

Tax cuts are ONE idea. ("Don't charge tax payers as much money." It's one flavor of ice cream, Grov, no matter which sprinkles you put on it.)

You may present your list in this format if you like:

1a) Capital Gains tax cut.
1b) R&D tax cut
1c) Corporate rate tax cut
1d) Financial transaction tax cut
1e) Make permanent the George Bush death/estate/hoarding tax cut
1f) Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) tax cut
1g) Gift Tax tax cut
1h) Federal Gas Tax tax cut
1i) Third home tax cut (how is anyone expected to live with just one vacation home?)
1j) Luxury Goods tax cut (these industries need a serious stimulus!)
1k) Flat tax / top tier bracket tax cut (just another few years more of trickle down will work! 6 causes depressions, 7 causes prosperity. Really!)
2) TBA
3) TBA
4) TBA
5) TBA
6) TBA
7) TBA
8) TBA
9) TBA
10) TBA

Can we have it by 2011, please? We do no time to consider whatever you come up with (and get our giggles under control.)

I want Obama to fail too.
I want him to fail to rescind the 2nd amendment.
I want him to fail to destroy free speech with the 'fairness' doctrine.
I want him to fail to create a socialist medical system.
I want him to fail to change our economic system into a fascist system.
I want him to fail to keep abortion the beloved sacrament of the cult of death.
I want him to fail to increase the size and power of government.

The only thing I want him to succeed at is cutting taxes; but he's not actually doing that, he's just calling welfare tax cuts and hoping we won't notice.

For the record no president can actually 'fix' the economy. That's up to us masses. A president can make the economy worse like FDR did, well let's see...as every Democratic President of the last century except Truman did...or he can get out of the way and use his bully pulpit to encourage the people to do what needs to be done. Obama could do this, but he's already going the other direction. Channeling Carter is not the best way to restore people's confidence, but then Obama's not quite bright. Too narrow-minded to be wise.

I would love for him to become a great president. All he has to do is open his mind and quit pretending that the 250-year-old ideals that have served our nation well are not inferior to 150-year-old ideals that have murdered more people than any other evil religion in history. Not going to hold my breath. The cult of death has still got a stranglehold on the education system and churns out Thuggee by the trainload, and Obama is a very well-educated high priest of the cult. I ain't worshipping Kali just 'cause some petite-fascists tell me I must or I'm unAmerican. Frankfurters are against America, so forgive me if I don't swallow.

Let me get this straight; you don't believe the policies Obama wants to implement are going to work or are good for the country but you should want him to be successful anyway?

Rush is a talk show host and an entertainer, nothing more. He has been on the air through several presidents with his ratings continuing to grow. He has everyone talking about him. The left has taken the bait while he is laughing all the way to the bank. Silly people!

We have been through the rancor of the clinton and the Bush presidencies. My hope is that President Obama moves past all this bs and angers all you extremist by using the best ideas that work regardless of where they come from. We will see if he can rise above it or continue to wallow in the partisan division you people and the leaders in DC can't get away from.

Bush arrogantly waged war and killed innocent muslims in the name of peace and security. Obama and the Dems told us they would end these policies that keep the rest of the world aligned against us and ensure ongoing hated of america. Yet, a week into his reign, Obama kills dozens of innocents on foreign, sovereign soil. Where's the change?

Obama promised to close gitmo immediately. What do we get? An empty proclamation that will look into closing it within a year?!?! Please, let's hold Obama and these dems feet to the fire! Is this Bush III? Looks like it to me.

I was with obama but it looks more and more like he is just like the rest of the lying scum that populate washington. Keep on hoping for change. Say one thing for the camera and do something different in reality. If it was horrible and criminal when bush did it, why is it honorable and justified when obama does it?

Oh man, and now I just read that obama sides with bush warrantless wiretapping programs designed to monitor US citizens. I thought we were promised freedom from these GOP-fascists but obama continues the same programs? Obama tramples our rights just like bush. Now that's change, eh? I guess obama only meant changing of the spelling of the oppressors. Oh how we were duped. and i really wanted to believe.

"A president can make the economy worse like FDR did, well let's see...as every Democratic President of the last century except Truman did"

ROFLMAO.... You really don't know anything about history or about the economy, do you? This was a hilariously stupid and wholly inaccurate statement. Free clue: the economy has done better under Democratic presidents than it has under Republican presidents for the past hundred years or so.

"A president can make the economy worse like FDR did, well let's see...as every Democratic President of the last century except Truman did"

Indeed, Jim Wilson, that was a pretty ignorant statement. Google this: economy under democratic and republican presidents

Jim,

"I want him to fail to rescind the 2nd amendment."

He can't "rescind the 2nd amendment".

"I want him to fail to destroy free speech with the 'fairness' doctrine."

No federally elected official has made such a proposal.

"I want him to fail to create a socialist medical system."

No federally elected official has made such a proposal.

"I want him to fail to change our economic system into a fascist system."

Chimpy Bush already tried that.

"I want him to fail to increase the size and power of government."

Once again, Chimpy Bush been there, done that.

“The only thing I want him to succeed at is cutting taxes...�

It doesn't work economically.

Every time federal income tax rate cuts have been enacted, the national economy subsequently either slowed dramatically (the '60s), or entered recession (the '80s and '00s), and federal income tax revenues plummeted precipitously.

It only 'works' if your intent is concentrate wealth.

"For the record no president can actually 'fix' the economy."

Actually, President Roosevelt and President Clinton accomplished it quite well.

"A president can make the economy worse like FDR did..."

Economic Performance Under The New Deal

Joe Friday,

Bill Clinton did not fix the economy. If you studied the kind of recession that was suffered and the causes of it, you would immediately realize it was the kind that fixes itself (mainly military spending coming to an end, which obviously frees up production and high-tech workers for other industries.) There are many who doubt that FDR fixed the economy - some of his ideas were very good, some were very bad, and hard to discern which had the most effect. However, Eisenhower DID fix the economy back in the 50's with the Interstate Freeway Program - but one of the keys to the Interstate Freeway Program is instead of just being a "stimulus" package, it actually created production long-term that a business could build it's life off of. New neighborhoods, new cities, new industries, ease of citizens to move from one city to the next, lower costs for transportation of the fruits of the land, especially in underpopulated rural areas with too little rail service or industries that produce goods in small quantity and thus benefit from the flexibility of a truck as supposed to the massive carrying capacity of a train.

At first glance, I have severe doubts that Obama's "stimulus" will be able to achieve anything similar. The technologies that it clings on to for long-term growth are too underdeveloped at this moment to be useful, especially solar, while others may actually raise costs, like bio-fuels which will raise the cost of food and land even if it declines the cost of transportation slightly, a textbook example of a negative externality. It may help some businesses prevent themselves from going out short-term, but stasis seems to be the best we can hope for from this bill, and expensive stasis at that - it may come back to haunt us when the economy recovers and the debt has to be paid off.

Shorter version of trolls: they want Obama to succeed if the turns into a Republican and endorses more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Also, weren't the tax stimulus checks Bush sent out, both times, equivalent to welfare? After all, everyone got one, including people on social security who no longer pay taxes? I know this because I helped people on SS file tax returns in order to get the checks - people who didn't have to file previously because they didn't make enough money to have to file.

IKOYAR as usual.

Here's a tip for you: if Grover Norquist is on your side, you are on the wrong side. I don't know why RWA people think that if you give the lord of the manor more money he will take care of you.

Shorter version of trolls: we want Obama to succeed only if he turns into a Republican.

Also: if you give the lords of the manor more $ in tax cuts (i.e. rich people/investor class) they will take care of us.

Sorry about the double post. Got an error message the first time and assumed it wouldn't post.

Jeremy,

"Bill Clinton did not fix the economy."

Of course he did.

In August of 1993, when the Clinton administration's budget & tax legislation was passing through the Congress:

* Stephen Moore, director of fiscal policy studies at the Cato Institute , predicted that "Clinton's plan will torpedo the economy".

* "The tax increase will kill jobs and lead to a recession" said Newt Gingrich, "and the recession will force people off of work and onto unemployment and will actually increase the deficit."

* Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX), a claimed economist, said "I want to predict here tonight, that if we adopt this bill the American economy is going to get weaker and not stronger, the deficit four years from today will be higher than it is today and not lower ... When all is said and done, people will pay more taxes, the economy will create fewer jobs, the government will spend more money, and the American people will be worse off."

* Rep. Dick Armey (R-TX), another claimed economist, labeled the Clinton economic plan "a job killer".

* Another strident opponent of the Clinton administration’s economic legislation was Rep. John Kasich (R-OH), who said "This plan will not work. If it was to work, then I'd have to become a Democrat..." (Still waiting on that conversion)

* Sen. Pete Domenici (R-NM), said "April Fool, America. This Clinton budget plan will not create jobs, will not grow the economy, and will not reduce the deficit."

Of course, they were all DEAD wrong.

"If you studied the kind of recession that was suffered and the causes of it, you would immediately realize it was the kind that fixes itself"

That is exactly the kind of gullibility that lengthened and deepened the Great Depression.

"(mainly military spending coming to an end..."

Chimpy inherited a level of military spending from President Clinton that was more than 22 times as large as the combined spending of the seven countries traditionally identified by the Pentagon as our most likely adversaries: Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria.

Chimpy inherited a level of military spending from President Clinton that was more than five times larger than the military budget of Russia, the second largest military spender on the planet.

Chimpy inherited a level of military spending from President Clinton that was more than that of the next 12 biggest-spending nations on the planet, COMBINED.

So exactly where was the "military spending coming to an end" ???

"There are many who doubt that FDR fixed the economy"

You must have missed the link at the end of my previous post.

Oh, and the GDP in 1936 was 13% !

Joe Friday,

I find it very interesting and informative that you do not directly address my reasoning but instead resort to a straw man named Phil Gramm. The millitary spending "coming to an end" was the even larger millitary spending under Ronald Reagan, which was, for the record, about 40% as large and contained about 80% more R&D, the sector of the economy that was affected. Also keep in mind that Russia had also massively cut it's military spending (common sense, their government had just collapsed) and thus your point of reference is completely meaningless. The Great Depression was not lengthened "by that gullibility." To say that indicates that you have no sense of perspective and no ability to read between the lines. The question with the great depression and whether it would have fixed itself has no relation to how long it would take to fix itself, merely that it would. Further, the great depression was a systematic collapse throughout the entire economy including in capital sectors that nearly the entire rest of the economy is dependent upon, and thus it would take long to fix, while Bill Clinton's recession was of surface sectors like Military R&D that, frankly, may employ a lot of people but other sectors of the economy save a few consumption sectors (movie theaters and shopping malls) are not dependent on them to any significant degree. Further, engineering talent is so scarce and highly valued that a sudden flooding of the economy with it WILL have a massive multiplier effect and adjust for itself, whereas every sector of the economy being torn to shreds... not so much.

Slight grammar mistake: "larger." Don't be petty, you know what I'm saying.

Jeremy,

"I find it very interesting and informative that you do not directly address my reasoning..."

What reasoning ?

"...but instead resort to a straw man named Phil Gramm."

Just how are the exact quotes of the American RightWing a Straw Man ?

Better check your definition.

"The millitary spending 'coming to an end'..."

Didn't happen.

"Also keep in mind that Russia had also massively cut it's military spending..."

Before Reagan ever set foot in the White House.

"thus your point of reference is completely meaningless."

I'm afraid yours is.

"The Great Depression was not lengthened 'by that gullibility'."

Of course it was. FDR had to fight the American RightWing all the way, as they merely wanted to let the markets fix themselves.

"To say that indicates that you have no sense of perspective and no ability to read between the lines."

True, I don't have your secret decoder ring. I have to fall back on reality.

"Bill Clinton's recession..."

There were no recessions during President Clinton's two terms.

"...was of surface sectors like Military R&D that, frankly, may employ a lot of people but other sectors of the economy save a few consumption sectors (movie theaters and shopping malls) are not dependent on them to any significant degree. Further, engineering talent is so scarce and highly valued that a sudden flooding of the economy with it WILL have a massive multiplier effect and adjust for itself, whereas every sector of the economy being torn to shreds... not so much."

You do realize you're spouting unsubstantiated gibberish, eh ?