on the other hand, the WSJ editorial board -- and greater wingnuttia generally -- is an irony-free zone incapable of being embarrassed by anything.

a whole editorial board of bill kristols!
pretty cool!

WSJ nonsense aside, one of the problems with this stimulus package is that it is being cobbled together by a huge committee (535 Congressmen and Senators) with parochial interests and little expertise. What Romer and Bernstein need to do is to chart all the options, rating them for stimulative effect, timing, geographical benefit, etc. Only then would some of the odder provisions be able to be justified or ridiculed properly.

The reporting style reminds me of "The BushCo. Anything Goes Guantanamo Torture Facility and Habeas Corpus free-zone". I heard that's closing though.

It's little wonder that newspapers are going out of business. It really pisses me off too. I like sitting at the kitchen table in the morning reading the papers. The problem is when you continue to print hack writers who haven't the minimal journalistic standards of being somewhat accurate then people see no reason to continue to read them.

Conservatives living in an alternate reality? You don't say!

2.2 When the facts don't support your argument, change the facts.

That is straight out of the GOP's Conservative Republican Handbook for Survival.

Did the WSJ mention CBO also said that the dems are going to slip the Fairness Doctrine into the bill as well.

Unfortunately, the newspapers going out business are left leaning and not the WSJ and Washington Times. Murdoch and Moonie will run their operations at a loss, rather than fold.

Further proof that these morons live in Fantasy Land. I'm sure the author has "faith" that the censored report will be found, won't it?

Anybody want to bet that their moderated comments board will have any comments telling them that the FACT is that the report doesn't exist?

I'm sure that Congressional Dems and the President are relieved that they have Steve Benen out there defending them!

Meanwhile, they're merrily shoveling hundreds of billions of our dollars which they don't have into who knows what. But who cares!?!?!? As long as Steve gets to crap on Republicans, what else matters?

From a sympathetic reader, this is a great antidote to the tendentious stimulus bullshit I'm reading on this otherwise very smart blog

http://www.slopedcurve.com/roller/makro/entry/on_the_appalling_state_of

hey, i love these trolls with their we're doomed debt-ridden, stimulus-yo-mama bullshit.

in fairness to the WSJ editorial board, they refer to "Congressional Budget Office estimates" and a "CBO analysis." they never use the misleading word "report."

a gentle rebuke: if we're going to accuse the other side of obfuscation and willful inaccuracy, we have an obligation to be clear and precise.

that being said, i did find this particularly rich:

the "stimulus" claim is based on something called the Keynesian "multiplier," which is that each $1 of spending the government "injects" into the economy yields 1.5 times that in greater output. There's little evidence to support this theory, but you have to admire its beauty because it assumes the government can create wealth out of thin air.

has the WSJ editorial page never heard of the Laffer Curve?

the lack of self-awareness is rich.

And what do you know, the 'liberal media' is just passing on this misinformation.

Personally, I know I'm happy when anyone gets to crap on Republicans.

IT STILL DOESN'T EXIST

Yes it does exist. It just is not officially called a "CBO Report". It reports the results of a CBO analysis showing that the first tranch of the "stimulus", in the amount of $355 Billon, will have a negligible effect on economic growth.

But is isn't called a "CBO report". Presumably the official report, when finally reported, will report that the economic effects of the "stimulus" will be splendid. Or perhaps it won't be reported at all.

IT STILL DOESN'T EXIST

Yes it does exist. It just is not officially called a "CBO Report". It reports the results of a CBO analysis showing that the first tranch of the "stimulus", in the amount of $355 Billon, will have a negligible effect on economic growth.

Does it not occur to folks that it MIGHT be helpful to do this kind of analysis to figure out what might actually BE helpful to do?????

one of the problems with this stimulus package is that it is being cobbled together by a huge committee (535 Congressmen and Senators) with parochial interests and little expertise. What Romer and Bernstein need to do is to chart all the options, rating them for stimulative effect, timing, geographical benefit, etc. Only then would some of the odder provisions be able to be justified or ridiculed properly.

A good idea, but the congresscritters will vote their convictions and the interests of their constituents. No matter what Romer and Bernstein think, Dem. Pelosi will insist on hundreds of millions for subsidies for contraception, and Dem. Rockefeller will insist on billions (more likely tens of billions) for clean coal. Since they need Rockefeller's vote for a filibuster-proof majority, clean coal development will be in. I support clean coal development, fwiw, but it won't have beneficial economic effects any time during Obama's first term; it will just transfer some highly paid and highly skilled workers from "here" to "there", with an increase in employment "there" matched by a reduction in employment "here". And perhaps an increase in the productivity in the coal extraction processes.

Does it not occur to folks that it MIGHT be helpful to do this kind of analysis to figure out what might actually BE helpful to do?????

Of course. That's why the "something other than a report" is being reported on in the news media. Soon, somebody will propose that different projects will have a bigger beneficial impact than subsidies for birth control.

A "different project" might include leaving the money with investors in the private sector, instead of borrowing it from them. Investors probably won't invest until they know the results of all the government investments, in which case the cost of the government programs will be the loss of $825 Billions worth of privately funded projects. If that happens, the net result of the "stimulus" will be no net growth, or slightly slower net growth, over the lifespan of the "stimulus."

You can't just assume that the other investments that drive the economy will continue to occur at the same rate as the government borrows an additional (emphasize "additional") $825 Billion over 2 years. Although in general Democrats like Democratic borrowing and Republicans like Republican borrowing, the proponents of extra borrowing always ignore the opportunity costs. Reagan and Bush II may have believed the Laffer curve proponents' claim that the tax cuts would boost revenues, but the subsequent large increases in borrowing may not have had any long-term benefit.

page 2sec.3.STATEMENT OF APPROPRIATIONS
The following sums in this act are appropriated,out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated,for the fiscal year ending September 30,2009, and for other purposes.
This bill lists thirteen branches that will recevie funds. the curious ones are agriculture,defence,homeland security,military construction and veterans affairs and Department of State.
All of these departments are funded generosly under other appropations. This bill is a giveaway of the tax payers money.
Steve you were relevent in the election of Obama. Hilzoy is a mouth that is always in gear.You have become the enemy you railed against
They are going to waste your future and what little assets you accumulate. Cheer them on! There is no money to appropreate. You can spend it on bullshit and charge your kids for it
Little bastards might get even. Who knows.
This is Benard Madoff on steroids.

When did we start attracting so many retards to this blog? The comments seem to be full of them today...

These numbers were provided to Congress by the CBO. The very article you cite refuting its existence links to the actual report. See it here.

Saying that the report doesn't exist is silly. What you're actually arguing is that it's misleading because it's not formal or complete. This begs the question as to whether the CBO routinely provides incomplete misleading information to Congress.

If so, that's the story.

Trolls. Retards. Blow me with your name-calling, I don't doubt I'm to the left of you, I'm just not reflexively relying on macro solutions to the micro problems of coordination and corruption. Without root-and-branch corporate governance and transparency reform the stimulus will get pissed away. Last thing we need is half-educated fuckwads shouting reductive mirror-image slogans at the GOP fascists.

Is it just me, or is Marler getting more unhinged lately? The frequency of his idiotic postings seems to be picking up in pace.

b - The relative level of your liberalism does not affect the intelligence of your comments.

You must have missed the part of the campaign (and the first few days of his presidency) where Obama specifically talked about and implemented transparency.

Why do conservahacks keep referencing a CBO report that doesn't exist (in the form they pretend)? Because the MSM won't do its job of fact-checking and calling down BS, and even worse will pick up on it themselves.

I heard that. We shall see. Macro stabilization is easy, when transparency is real. But between Bush-family sleeper agents like Darrel Dochow and looters like Lewis and Thain, you'd be insane to think that financial-sector stimulus won't be skimmed down to pathetic useless driblets. And financial-sector stimulus is the only thing that matters, sad to say. Everything else is gravy.

Meanwhile, they're merrily shoveling hundreds of billions of our dollars which they don't have into who knows what. But who cares!?!?!? As long as Steve gets to crap on Republicans, what else matters?

Sorry, this is coming from the people who merrily cheered on the Republicans as they sent pallet-loads of cash to Iraq and can't account for several tens of BILLIONS of dollars?

Funny how you're all in favor of sending untraceable cash to corrupt officials in Iraq but balk at spending a fraction of that money on your fellow citizens right here in the United States of America.

Is it just me, or is Marler getting more unhinged lately?

It isn't just you.

Is it just me, or is Marler getting more unhinged lately?

And he still hasn't ponied over that info to debunk the Lancet study. I am left with no choice but to believe he was full of shit all along...

You should all just stuff your stimulus and your CBO report both. It's artificial controversy over red herrings to distract you from the hard problems that neither party wants to face. You're trying to talk about this as if it's an aggregate-demand problem and it's not, it's a problem of malinvestment, which is very common in corrupt totalitarian regimes with politically-allocated soft credit. Like COMECON. Like us for the past eight years. The crux is coping with the breakdown of systemic, officially-sanctioned credit and securities fraud - without merely cranking it up again.

It isn't just you.

You know, I think the fact that Barack Hussein Obama is now President of the United States of America and we've finally ushered in our long-awaited socialist paradise might have broken his brain.....the mind, she can only take so much strain and then, like a twig, she snaps.

Obama/Pelosi are using economic fear to garner support for a legislative and pork agenda, much as Bush used WMD fear to advance the neocon agenda.

Obama/Pelosi are using economic fear to garner support for a legislative and pork agenda, much as Bush used WMD fear to advance the neocon agenda. - Luther

Right, and those Dow Jones reports, labor statistics, and foreclosure numbers are just like the Niger documents, right?

You know, I think the fact that Barack Hussein Obama is now President of the United States of America and we've finally ushered in our long-awaited socialist paradise might have broken his brain.....the mind, she can only take so much strain and then, like a twig, she snaps.

You know, I think it's because the Republicans are no longer in power to deliver their sweet, sweet tax cuts.

Why Marler thinks that continuing to argue in bad faith on their behalf will somehow reverse the GOP's record of epic fail is beyond comprehension. It's just a shame that his motivations and transparent dishonesties aren't.

In other words, what Blue Girl said in her last seven words.

Thanks

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