I think the 20,000 is in units of 1000, so it's 20 million, not 20,000...

Supposedly there's a bipartisan group of Senators - no aides - sitting in a room scrubbing the bill. I say, that's the limit. After that, the bill goes to the floor. They can wise up and take partial credit, or watch as it steamrolls over them. But, no more Mr. Nice Guy.

Digby:
I think the administration thought they could be mediators between the two parties rather than leaders of the Democratic party.

What David said - 20 million government employees, not 20,000. 20,000 would not be very many.

20 million government employees

Federal, state, and local

Halleleujiah, Hilzoy. Pound that point, please. When the Puglicans have pissed YOU off, they've definitely crossed the Rubicon. I hope to hell Obama's listening and pulls Reid's short and curlies, pronto. It's long past time to kick these a**holes to the curb.

Then: a new Senate majority leader. Fat chance, I know, but it's time to start the drumbeats. He just can't close a deal.

Hilzoy wrote: "If the Senate Republicans want to hold the American economy hostage to their idiotic ideas ..."

The Senate Republicans' ideas are not "idiotic". Their ideas are tried, proven, successful policies for enriching and empowering their rich and powerful owners at the expense of, and to the detriment of, the American people. Which is, after all, what Republican politicians are paid to do.

Of course, the Senate Republicans are being despicably and reprehensibly dishonest by representing their ideas for enriching and empowering the rich and powerful as policies that will benefit the American people in general. So it is legitimate to attack them for dishonesty and to attack the arguments with which they advocate their policy proposals as bunk peddled by a bunch of sleazy con artists to bamboozle gullible rubes out of their money.

But there is nothing "idiotic" about their proposals. They know exactly what they are proposing and what the results will be. They are just lying about it.

I agree. Every opportunity has been given to allow the Republicans a reasonable say in what goes into this bill. And they have refused at every turn to do anything except stand pat in their failed ideological bubble, spouting empty and, frankly, stupid and idiotic rants which have no bearing on the serious problem at hand.

So the time has come to move on without them. A little "backroom scrubbing" to burnish the edges a little?---No problem. But the time has come to shit or get off the pot. As Shrub was so fond of saying, "You're either with us, or you're against us". In this case, the GOP is expending serious effort to do as much damage as possible to this country for purely political reasons. Screw them. If we can get this bill through the Senate tomorrow, then let's get this show on the road. If they don't want to help, then they should just get the hell out of the way.

How many more voices does it take? How much more can it be demonstrated that we have just had it with Republican's failed policies and their obstructionist tactics? How much longer must we tolerate republican senators blocking the progress of the majority because of changeable senate rules who without any reason at all can hold a bill up or can keep a bill from being voted on unless there is a "super majority" allowing it?

What more can we do to stop this ridiculous stupidity that prevents government from functioning as it was intended to function.

Democrats just need to keep hammering away at one point: we tried nothing but tax cuts for 8 years and look where it brought us. And Republicans just want to cut taxes down to zero. Where in the hell do you think that'll take us???

Make the point hard, make it loud, and make it often.

The O Administration needs to telegraph the Senate to strip the stimulous bill of all tax cuts that the house republicans failed to support. Fruc em. If they aren't gonna poney up the votes they shouldn't get consideration, especially becasue the tax cuts are less effective anyway.

In fact it would give Obama a great opportunity to say that he was acting as a conservative and protecting America's long term interests by not including tax cuts that would create a permanent structural deficit going forward. Obama can say he is just being fiscally sound by stripping out the tax cuts.

Go for it.

SecularAnimist has it right.

For eight years we debated stupid, evil or both. I think we can settle on "evil" here.

When I was in college last century, I dated a woman who loved with her grandmother. She (the gmother) seemed to think she should feed me all the time. "Hungry? Eat--you will feel better." "Fever? Eat." "Bloated From too much food? Eat."

Now, this woman has 36 seats in the US Senate--just substitute tax cuts for food.

Good post Hilzoy.

BTW...A big shout out to Steve's post yesterday (still listed on the bottom of today's posts) STIMULUS DEFENDERS WAKE UP...it was excellent and really needed saying. All the attention and rhetoric is about what republicans are saying when what they are saying (as Hilzoy states) is beyond stupid and deserves no attention. It is just a distraction and to get attention as if they know anything about what they are talking about. Way to go Steve...I've re read it because it is exactly what I'm wanting to say to these repukes.

When I tell my son to clean his room, and he pitches a fit instead, he gets a spanking and time-out, then he loses all the toys on the floor. After he cleans his room, he has a probationary period where he can earn back the toys he lost. Some toys he never got back. He quickly learned to clean his room when I damn well told him to. I fail to see why Obama isn't using a similar approach on Congressional Rethugs, unless it's because the Rethugs are too stupid to even be conditioned.

They might not know crap about governing, but the circle-jerk of mutual stupidity we're witnessing from the GOP in an effort to forestall the inevitable passage of a Democratic sponsored and led stimulus package is impressive. But enough is enough. No more slashing in the name of bipartisanship. If these guys really want to stand up and filibuster, then let them filibuster.

Hilzoy: "I'm glad Obama reached out to them. It was the right thing to do, both morally and tactically."

No it wasn't. You were wrong on January 29 and you're wrong now in repeating it. There was nothing "moral" about Obama building in up-front components that were known to be BAD policy. And there was nothing "tactical" about Obama assuming that republicans would cooperate with him and help him succeed. Given the behavior of republicans over the last 8 years, and Palin's and McCain's behavior in the election, it was immoral and foolish for him to do so.

In your January 29 piece you stated, "If Obama had gone to the Republicans and said: I propose a bill entirely made up of things Democrats really want and you really hate, but please, do join us in supporting it!, that wouldn't work at all."

Wrong! Morally and tactically that's EXACTLY what he should have done. He should have been willing to listen to Republicans for IMPROVEMENTS within HIS (AND OUR) philosophical, moral, and analytical structure. That's why he was fucking elected. Whether the republicans "really hate" something has nothing to do with anything. What is this: fucking kindergarten?

After having three months to think about it, with access to the best minds in the country, for Obama not to have developed a detailed, effective plan (that he could sell to the people) to save America is a travesty. For you to justify it as the "morally and tactically" right thing to adds insult to injury.

I'm glad Obama reached out to them. It was the right thing to do, both morally and tactically. But there are limits. And we have reached them. If there are enough votes to defeat a filibuster in the Senate, well and good. If not, Harry Reid should do one of two things: (a) reintroduce the bill under reconciliation rules, which do not allow filibusters, or (b) force any Republicans who want to filibuster the bill to actually stand up in the Senate chamber and talk.

If the Senate Republicans want to hold the American economy hostage to their idiotic ideas, they should at least have to suffer some sort of inconvenience for it. It would be much better, though, just to defeat them.

Truth.

I agree with Hilzoy. In general, we should strive for agreement and work together to solve problems. It's good strategy and good politics, but it requires good faith from the opposition. Keori makes a good point about conditioning. Club the GOP over the head once or twice and they will be more willing to bargain in good faith.

Two things here really got my attention. I loved the way you said the republicans are being advised on the economy by Joe the Plumber. That is so cool. That is really all you need to know about republicans to determine that they don't know shit. If they ask that guy for advice, then every single thing they ever say afterward is not only suspect, but should just be considered nonsense. They truly don't know how to do anything but obstruct.
The other thing was Reconciliation Rules. I didn't know about that. Since the republicans have been abusing the filibuster, I think it is time to start pulling this out every time they try it regarding budget matters. Time to start flooding Reid's office with this idea.

Oh please. CRUSH them. Crush the morons who call themselves Republicans. Time to pull out the stops. NOW we want tax cuts for low and moderate income people. Gee guys, where were you 8 years ago ? Oh, right - RICH people got tax cuts then. But, soon there won't be any rich people left, if we keep this up. I worked for Obama - and lots of other people worked very very hard to get him elected. The 1 million + who went to DC for 20 Jan DID NOT GO TO SEE Thad Cochran or Orrin Hatch. Bury them. Just get the D votes, peel a few [1 ? 2 ? who cares] remaining clear headed Rs, and crush them. Lead. Get a bill passed ! DO WHAT IT TAKES>>>>

I don't disagree with your analysis, though I never expected the current repubs to do anything but what they're doing. They are by and large southern idealogues who despise anything that smells remotely liberal, and no matter what dems and obama do, nothing will win them over, short of bending over and letting them write all the bills. We are playing with at best 4 or 5 gettable repubs on any piece of legislation, plus Ben Nelson and a few other blue dog dems, and that is the beginning and end for the need to compromise IMHO. I also think the RWNM and political friction mongers need to be considered somewhat, but not to compromised with.

If the Dems want to change the whole discussion all they have to say is that any senators who vote against the Stimulus should view it as a vote to reject any and all stimulus funds for their respective states. Then we'd see how fast the hypocrites get in line.

If there were only a way to tie their vote to the money for their states. Imagine what the republican governors would have to say about that.

Hilzoy, Please give us more blog posts. You are among the best.

Your faithful blog-world fan,

Hanan Kolko

Right on, Hilzoy. I agree almost completely with this post. I would add that Obama is giving most of the Republicans enough rope to do a good job of hanging themselves.

For those who disagree, consider this. For the next 2 years, President Obama is going to need a small pool of Republicans in the Senate in order to passs any legislation. While I believe he truly wants to govern in a bipartisen manner, he is smart enough to know there are only about 6 Republican Senators he might be able to reach on any given issue. He & we are learning who they are in this process: Snow, Collins, Voinovich, & I don't remember the name, who all voted against todays f***stimulus bill. There are a few others who may see the light in coming weeks. He knows he will never get the cooperation of McConnel, Demint, Cronyn, & the rest of the hardliners.

He also has the problem of a few Blue Dogs from red states, who don't dare vote yes on every Democratic bill if they want to stay in office. Having a few Republicans voting with the Dems from time to time gives them a little cover to toe the party line more than the ordinarily might.

But perhaps most importantly, there is a large plurality of Independents voters out here that he is also reaching out to.

I know that a lot of you don't agree with what Obama is doing or what Hilzoy or I am saying. That's fine. Your voices give our President the cover of saying that even the left oppose some of what he is doing, which makes him appear more centrist to those Independents & Republicans already mentioned. Eventually it will pull the center a little further to the left - which is a very good thing.. But I ask that you keep it civil. Let the far right appear to be the only ones who are batshit crazy.