It's clear that BHO has abandoned all pretext of bipartisanship and has embarked on a socialist agenda. Let's hope the GOP is able to prevent the worst excesses.

I can just imagine the snit this is going to put David Broder in............

Al if you think this is a socialist agenda you need to go back to school and learn what socialism is.

For once, I agree with Al (except for the Republicans continuing to fuck over the country). Viva socialism!

If only he'd started with this rhetoric, as opposed to bipartisan fantasies.

Sounds like the dopes have been roped, and they hung themselves on the bipartisan rope that Obama handed them. Good.

latest estimates from the Congressional Budget Office:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9619/Gregg.pdf

Some grist for everyone's mill.

Someone besides Obama needs to go off on the Republican nonsense about tax cuts, the bill mostly a partisan spending spree, the CBO report, honeybee insurance, condoms, religion activities in gov. facilities, and so on.
Show clips of these *ssholes getting worked-up in front of the camera, then set the record straight while belittling them for their dishonesty.
News outlets work on an entertainment basis, and someone smacking the GOP in the face might just get carried.

You would hope that folks like Al, Limbaugh and the GOP would figure out that they would rather have the little people working a) So they could purchase the rich people's products and services;b) So they could continue to pay taxes so the pressure to increase the taxes on the rich would be reduced; and c) So they do not end up rioting in the streets and bringing down the capitalist system and executing the rich in the process. There is an element out there that thinks a Latin American style of economy is a good idea, appparantly failing to note what has been happening in some of those countries of late. Indeed, you would be hard pressed to find any economy with as much inequality that works as well as ours did until the GOP wrecked it.

they've brought our economy to a halt.

I preferred "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself ... "

The economy has slowed by a few percent and will probably slow by a few percent more before it starts to recover. The stimulus will probably do more long run harm than short run good, and nearly everyone here will still be here in the long run, so the long run matters.

It would be nice to get off Middle Eastern Oil (not ALL foreign oil any time soon), but the stimulus will have next to no impact on that, adding just a small amount to ongoing research, development, and construction.

Al said:
It's clear that BHO has abandoned all pretext of bipartisanship and has embarked on a socialist agenda.

Well, since I'm in favor of unemployment insurance, social security, child labor laws, medicare and medicaid and the 40 hour work week, I guess I'm a socialist too.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

MatthewRMarler: "The stimulus will probably do more long run harm than short run good ..."

Making evidence-free assertions is always fun, isn't it?

some recent reviews of global wind and nuclear power, installed and in development:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/02/global-wind-pow.html

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/reactors.html

It's about time that Obama acts like a President: He is the decider now!

According to Republican claims back in 2000 and 2004 defending the Bush elections.

Obama has a mandate from the American people. (Larger popular vote and electoral votes than 2000 & 2004 for Bush)

Obama has Political Capital; yet he's not been using it effectively.

Unlike Bush who declared it, and then pretended it to be reality.

c) So they do not end up rioting in the streets and bringing down the capitalist system and executing the rich in the process.

And it will be the information poor, indignation rich, xenophobic Republican "base" that will be the first to commit atrocities against the elites.

Note to the Brahmans - don't think your occasional flag waving and bible thumping will cover your ass if things get really bad for John Q. Whitebread.

They've got guns.

Tax shelters don't stop bullets.

Oddjob:

For real. Of course, no one's as stupid as the "Al" parody, but there still are WAY too many people that think that "capitalism" means feudalism, and anything else is "communism", for which "socialism" is just a synonym.

And there are people who think that the earth is flat, and that space aliens built the pyramids. The only difference is that these people aren't running one of the country's political parties.

President Obama told it EXACTLY like it is...we have all been echoing this sentiment for quite a long while. The Republicans are unconscionable. Their actions throughout this whole affair proves just how unwilling they are and will be to get this country back on its feet. There has been more than enough compromising and it's been all for naught. It takes two to tango...the Dems have shown up for the dance...the Repugs have stayed home clinging to their precious "tax cuts and only tax cuts" mantra.

This whole back-and-forth battle between the Democrat/Obama and the Republicans has me wondering -

If the former does in fact have the required Senate votes to pass the stimulus package - and putting aside the notion that a lingering bad economy can eventually be pinned on Obama by the Republicans - what is gained by the latter by being completely obstructionist and providing no real insight or meaningful alternatives into actually improving the economy?

The vote takes place, it's passed, becomes law, and provides some positive gain for the economy. It certainly wouldn't help them in the 2010 mid-term elections ...

... Unless the Republicans actually can derail the Senate vote ... which leads me to wonder if the 'moderate' Republican Senators will actually vote for it?

Those ideas have been tested, and they have failed

Word.

Speaking of fail, Marler, considering you back the GOP as the source of those sweet, sweet tax cuts, you're about the last person anyone should listen to for predictions of long term harm. We'll be dealing with the long term harm of the jackassery of you and the gang of corrupt fools you carry water for long after you quit making bad faith comments on this blog -- which will be about the fifth of never.

Jackass.

lobbygow: Who will join up with the John Q Whitebreads in your scenario? Who are their allies?

Speaking of fail, Marler, considering you back the GOP as the source of those sweet, sweet tax cuts, you're about the last person anyone should listen to for predictions of long term harm.

The mere fact that Republicans, from the Senate down to this discussion board, think they have the remotest shred of credibility, the chutzpah to suggest that their opinions are anything but worthless, just shows how shameless they really are.

I mean, really - what kind of arrogant jackass do you have to be, when so clearly and blatantly proven wrong, follow that up with, "well, here's what I think, and you better listen to it"?

Demanding to be empowered to screw things up even further? Are you f'ing kidding me?

It isn't really the Republicans that Obama is "negotiating" with. They are merely tools. Obama is negotiating with their owners, America's Ultra-Rich Ruling Class, Inc.

Obama is trying to persuade them to accept a "kinder and gentler", "compassionate conservative" approach to corporate feudalism instead of the brutal, thuggish, ruthless, rapacious, overtly corrupt and criminal corporate feudalism that reigned supreme for the last eight years. He is trying to persuade the ultra-rich to agree to a truce in their relentless class warfare against everyone else.

Obama and the Democrats are not about to challenge the corporate domination of America. They are trying to persuade the corporate oligarchy to give the American people a few crumbs from their table, instead of a kick in the teeth.

Finally--It was great to hear Obama articulate the need so clearly and forcefully!

Yes, editorial boards will piss and moan no doubt--but they do this all the time anyway.

Obama just didn't factor in how angry and spiteful the Republicans are for losing. He thought he was done campaigning. And he actually imagined Republicans as being reasonable and compassionate human beings who would clearly rise to meet the horrific occasion.

What I have noticed about our president is that he seems at times to allow his political enemies to control the dialogue, and then, when we wonder what is going to happen next, he speaks. And when he speaks, (which always seems to be too late according to the pundits) he is able to articulate the most reasonable answer and trump whatever nasty and innacurate claims about his impending doom are being made. This president will get his stimulous package, and the republicans will be revealed for the fools they are. The voters want President Obama to succeed and I believe at the end of the day , he will.

In addition to going back to school to learn what socialism is, Al needs to check the dictionary and find out that "pretext" doesn't mean the same as "pretense."

When Obama talks like this, it's almost like a pretty girl talkin dirty.

Given that Marler and Mike K are vying for the title of Worst Prognosticator Evah, I always get a mite more cheerful when I see Marler predicting doom for Democratic initiatives.

When Obama talks like this, it's almost like a pretty girl talkin dirty.

I started to say about 10 different things and thought better of it. I will just laugh and allow this:

At our election night partay, a lively discussion broke out between the people who like to sleep mostly or exclusively with boys, and the people who like to sleep mostly or exclusively with girls. The PWLSMEG crowd, fueled by victory, food, drink, etc., admitted that they might, in a pinch, sleep with Sarah Palin, but only if they were assured of her not saying a word the entire time. The PWLSMEB contingent then gloated immoderately, pointing out that in our sexual fantasies about Barack Obama, he continues to talk to us throughout the momentous event.

"...worn out ideas..."? that we've "been hearing for the last 10 years, maybe longer"? those same ideas which "have been tested, and they have failed. They've taken us from surpluses to an annual deficit of over a trillion dollars..."?

Well, I'll be... The kitten's got claws after all and those are not milk teeth on that puppy. Who knew?

I want to see/her more of that kind of trash talk :)

shortstop: I always get a mite more cheerful when I see Marler predicting doom for Democratic initiatives.

I didn't predict doom, I predicted that the stimulus will have negligible beneficial impact. I am one among many who have cited the lack of beneficial impacts from other stimuli, as in the recent Japanese recession. Each failure to have a beneficial impact has a different post-hoc explanation from macroeconomics.

I am also predicting increasing amounts of fuel and electrical power from alternative sources, due to (bipartisan) programs and investments already underway.

You can always cite the parts of the CBO report that you like best: I posted the link.

I didn't predict doom, I predicted that the stimulus will have negligible beneficial impact.

You also predicted that the Lancet study on premature deaths in Iraq from the fall of 2006 would be debunked and that hasn't happened, so I am going to stay in the "you are George Costanza" camp. Whatever you say, I will be inclined to think the opposite is true. And the greater the degree of banality you muster, the firmer will be my convictions.

You also predicted that the Lancet study on premature deaths in Iraq from the fall of 2006 would be debunked and that hasn't happened,

Not to pile on, but he also had the following genius predictions about the economy back in 2007:

It's looking as though the federal deficit will come to under 1% of GDP this year, and may be a surplus by the time the next president is sworn in.

the recession following the Bush-Clinton boom was unusually short and shallow, and the recovery has been modest (compared to the bottom of the slump) by historical standards as well. It's an exciting time. I can hardly wait to find out where America's companies invest all of their record profits.

MatthewRmarler on May 11, 2007 at 10:23 PM | PERMALINK

An economic expert he is not.

The trouble with how BO talks is that he's so low-key and reasonable-sounding that he comes across as lacking passion and urgency.

It's as though he thinks his policies are so manifestly superior than anything the Repubs are proposing that he can't understand why they're opposing him.

For once, I'd like to see him smack the Repubs. Really go after them. Make the news cycle be about what he said and how he said it and how upset those whiney Repubs are at being called names.

I want him to talk so that working class Americans can see he's a fighter, that he knows the stakes in this fight are high and that we can count on him.

And if the Repubs get their feelings hurt, fuck 'em.

It's clear that the GOP never intended to cooperate in any fashion and is willing to wreck our country over politics.

I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED, that the Repubs are intent on wrecking our country, after all, look how good a job they did while they were in charge!

NOT!

lobbygow: Who will join up with the John Q Whitebreads in your scenario? Who are their allies?

In my feverbrained conspiracy-minded paranoid worldview they have no allies - a situation guaranteed when the illuminati stoked their white anger against all non-white enemies within the state and without for the last 50 years.

Most of them will be crushed by police actions of the corporatocracy. A few might escape to various enclaves in mountains, deserts and swamps. Others will retreat into pacifist religious communities that promise justice at some future date, but only serve to contain the threat. The elites will secretly control these religious institutions and use it as yet another method for robbing these fools of their hard earned cash.

Meanwhile, the same elites will begin pandering to the new, mostly non-white underclass. Racist attitudes will be poo pooed, but the "family values" will still reign supreme, including a healthy dose of sexism, homopobia and misogyny. People will be encouraged have big families to provide more grist for the mills and themilitary. Mandatory universal health insurance will ensure that all workers are permanently in debt to the company store (the government or their employer if there is still a difference). Access to healthcare will improve, but only the bare minimum required to keep people productive in the work force. Nothing will be provided by employers - not tools, computers or training. But much will be required and the "cost" will be automatically deducted from the meager paychecks. The song "Sixteen Tons" will enjoy a brief resurgence as a hip hop hit.

Meanwhile, Russian hackers wait for the moment when they are called upon to completely disrupt all electronic financial records so that the few independent minded middle class professionals remain lose everything and must also become part of a slightly less poor but no less exploited underclass.

I heard all of this 15 years ago from a guy that was always talking to himself at my local post office branch. Turns out that he was really talking to his fellow illuminati on a blue tooth headset. They have access to technology years before we do you know.

No, we cannot go back for the economy knows how to react if we go back.

So, does Keynes expect us to go back to the immediate past? If so, then Obama is not Keynesian.

Does Keynes expect us to change the mix of products that government purchases? If so, then Obama is Keynes, but the change in the mix of products is so different as to swamp the effect of greater size.

In other words, Obama, tell me what changed? Green energy? Medical goods constraints? War constraints? Education mis-appropriation? What is the major constraints, what are the lesser constraints. He has to tell us some day, although he may get a bigger effect by keeping it a secret, this special knowledge he has about what is constraining us.

We know an imbalance exists, tell us what resources are constrained which ones not.

It was all great, lobbygow, but this was sublime:

The song "Sixteen Tons" will enjoy a brief resurgence as a hip hop hit.

Fine
Editorial boards are troubled.

But can they disprove a single word?

This smacks of an entire industry not only failing to learn from history but attempting to teach the country their folly.

How much more than eight years of failure are we expected to tolerate? Do GOP Senators and Congressmen have jobs-for-life regardless of performance?

The process behind the first bailout increasingly takes on clarity.