I think the "get out of the way" argument needs to be the main thrust for Democrats following Obama. There are some Democrats who are going along with the Republicans. Why?

If you have no intention on voting for a plan which is 95% of what you want, at least don't filibuster it.

It is sickening to see the three weak Republican Senators getting their way. It is a real disease. Worse are the few Democrats who cheerlead them on.

Maddow is so adept at spelling it out so clearly without losing substance. She's an excellent educator in that way. A true gift to keep this balance. You have to first know a whole lot to then convert it into just a little. And to top it off, her presentation is fantastic: tone of voice, use of humor and analogy and graphics and interviewees apropos to the issue at hand.

She does a stellar job--what a natural. And you can see she loves her work, and that she works hard.

I hope the Obama Administration is tuning in.

I remember some fine "get out my way" rhetoric from Bill Clinton's 1992 speech accepting the nomination. That would be worth hunting down.

And that should be tied to a concerted campaign to make the economic arguments more broadly. If we are to end the era of Reaganism in convincing manner, President Obama, other Democrats, and a chorus of citizens and pundits must convey the argument and evidence that Reaganism is wrong and ineffective and leads to an unjust society.

I don't see people on television, etc., making a clear case about how the spending/stimulus works. After people have been told for decades that tax cuts are good and government spending is bad, they have to hear about how government investment hires people who can then spend money and can create infrastructure that benefits all.

While having leaders make this case is critical, we can all talk to people and can write well-crafted letters to local papers. If you live in a small market, newspaper publishers are looking for decent content and may publish your op-ed.

The problem is we have too many 'blue dogs' (allegedly on our side) who are also "in the way".

Asking Republicans for advice on how to fix the economy is the same as asking arsonists for advice on how to put out the fire...

To echo bobbyp above, it's distressing to see how many people who call themselves Democrats or see themselves on the center-left are also urging that the stimulus package be cut back.

A lot of people decry the "pork" in the House bill. Well, it's a stimulus bill, that's the whole freaking point, to spend money on projects. A valued project in my district is "pork" to someone else. But if you want to spend lots of money to stimulate the economy, then you have to fund these pork projects. Why is no one making this fundamental point?

While I have all the respect in the world for Rachel, one needs to recognize that the only way that the flat-earthers will "get out of the way" is if they're literally given a gentle nudge---with a very large, very real, very menacing bulldozer.

And, of course, all that that implies....

Why is no one making this fundamental point?

Even more, why is no one challenging the efficacy of the AMT correction? How dare people ask for higher minimums while others starve, lack health insurance, or jobs!

But get out of the way of the people who are actually trying to save the country.

Why would they get out of the way? If the Republicans had any kind of good intentions or true concern for the average person, they wouldn't be fighting the bill in the first place.

I have said this on several blogs like Swampland and John Cole's spot. That Rachel Maddow clip should go viral. People you should be forwarding that clip to all your friends and family memebers. Of everyone talking about the stimulus package, that clip explained it better than ANY of them and in plain language where anybody could understand it. Plust Rachel didn't rely on opinion. She used facts from Moody's, one of the most highly respected financial entities in the counry. If more average Americans saw that clip I think public opinion would turn significantly to putting more in the bill and not compromising. Hell if I was President Obama I would use the same kind of presentation to make his case tomorrow. It really doesn't get any better than that clip and I think every self respecting liberal/progressive blog should consider posting that video to spread the word.

Rachel Maddow needs to be mainstreamed in the MSM...so she can get the message out! There is a reason no republicans want to be interviewed by her, she is reasonable!

Maddow did have a Republican on her show the other day, and she was a puppy dog. I'm guessing a lot of viewers were throwing shoes at their TV's, but no one's going to accuse her of being a BillO.

If Maddow is nasty to her Republican guests, she won't get any. All we should ask is that hey not be allowed to get away with total BS. Call out any blatant lies... gently.

As for the 1.73 in benefits from food stamps. I'd love to see more info about that and infrastructure.

These items have economic stimulation in a depression like this one, and I don't doubt they'd do some good in a recession too; but I expect a point of diminishing returns might kick in.

Given satisfactory infrastructure and an expanding economy, what's the return on food stamps, infrastructure and how does it measure up to tax cuts for a confident population.

Democrats should have a cogent policy available to switch to when Obama fixes the Republican train wreck.

What are the signs to switch over and to what?

Balanced budgets?
Tax cuts (for the middle class)?
Research grants?
Education subsidies?

We should have the same kind of concrete numbers as we have for stimulus comparison before we need it. Get a few interns on it, Mr. President.

What is striking is that such sensible and logical commentary is so absent from the MSM that of course Rachel's views are considered radical by the masses of corporate media lapdogs.

According to a Bloomberg headline this morning, the "IMF Says Advanced Economies Already in Depression" [not a typo]. (And the worst is yet to come.)

http://tinyurl.com/auvakf

h

Hi sgw, I've been flogging Rachel's video also, everywhere I can. Steve Pearlstein had a similarly sharp piece at the Post this morning: Wanted: Personal Economic Trainers. Apply at Capitol. And Steve noted Summers sharp response this morning

In the meantime, you have republicans fanning out to say the problem really isn't that bad. Utterly astonishing. For example: Sen. Ensign: It’s ‘Fearmongering’ To Suggest That Any Teachers Would Lose Their Jobs»
.
BTW, anyone know how I can get PA to remember my username and password. I check the "remember" box but it refuses to remember me.

On neoII's comment, you should watch the Moyers interview with Rosen and Greenwald last Friday. Really layed it out.

NYU journalism professor and PressThink blogger Jay Rosen and political journalist and Salon.com blogger Glenn Greenwald explain to Bill Moyers that the press, once seen as an agent for change — the "fourth estate" checking power in America — has become thoroughly enmeshed in the establishment, and has a vested interest in preserving it.

You can argue numbers with republicans all you want. If you definitely demonstrate that government programs are more effective, that will not bring accession but further derision from republicans since the last thing the republicans want is a successful government.
They still hate and are in denial about Roosevelt, not because he failed but because he had success. Republicans see government as a competitor for power. Rachel only instills fear and loathing with the truth that the free market cannot do everything.
The market a tool not a goal.

h, if you are using Firefox, they have a great plug in called "make link" that eliminates the need for tinyurl.

I'm starting to agree with the Republicans, that no stimulus bill is better than a bad stimulus bill. The Democrats should bring an even larger Democrat stimulus bill up for a vote, and if the Republicans block it, then move on to something else. When the howling starts, point to the Republicans. When they claim they blocked it because it was not comprised of their failed RightWing economic policies, point to their repeated failure.

Joe, my brother suggested that President Obama round up all the repuglicans and throw them in jail as a clear and present danger to the nation. Sounds right to me.

Then pass a bill that makes economic sense.

I with you, Joe Friday, no point in backing a bad bill that will fail to do the job and likely give the GOP more House seats in 2010.

I think Obama can create popular support for a real stimulus bill that can get a couple of GOP senate votes.

Mainstream economist are now talking about depression, not recession. That ought to get people's attention.

Rachel Maddow said: "Form a flat-earthers club or something, where you talk enthusiastically to each other about your made-up economic ideas that aren't based in reality."

The Republicans' ideas are absolutely "based in reality." They are tried and tested policies that have consistently proved effective and successful at enriching and empowering the rich and powerful owners of the Republican Party at the expense of, and to the detriment of, everyone else.

The Republicans are doing what they always do, what they are paid to do: they are waging class warfare on behalf of America's Ultra-Rich Ruling Class, Inc. against everyone else.

It's not their "ideas" which have no basis in reality -- it's the reprehensible, despicable, brazen lie that Republican class warfare policies will help the overall economy, or improve the well-being of ordinary Americans.

With all due respect to Ms. Maddow, I believe it is not only incorrect but counterproductive to suggest that the Republicans are "crazy" -- they are not crazy. They know exactly what they are proposing and why.

What they are, is liars, frauds and con artists. Calling them "crazy" is letting them off the hook. They need to be publicly denounced as deliberate malicious liars who are actively working to harm the overwhelming majority of the American people for the benefit of a tiny ultra-rich minority.

Rachel Maddow said: "But get out of the way of the people who are actually trying to save the country."

That's hardly likely. The Republicans work for people who believe that they own the country. And in fact, they do own a whole lot of it. And they want to own all of it. They believe that this is their "divine right", according to the divinely ordained rule of "capitalism".

They believe that the rest of us are in their way.

Put em all in Gitmo. Along with the Moderates who are f**ing everything up.

I saw that when it aired, and I agree: Rachel got it exactly right. In fact, I was so impressed with this particular segment that I made sure to see it again when it aired again later.

Not only is letting Republicans and their failed economic philosophy shape the stimulus bill bad policy, in the end it will be bad politics.

The last 6 weeks of the election were fought almost entirely on the economy. McCain, speaking the Republican line, was soundly defeated -- defeated by a public who wants change, in this case a change to competent governance of the economy.

If Democrats make bad changes to the stimulus bill to accomodate Republicans, it wont be long until the Democrats, too, are rejected by the electorate. The electorate thought it solved this problem in 2006 and 2008.

Now, one might argue that recent polling on the stimulus bill shows the electorate is an easily fooled bunch of morons, which may not be all that far off, but on election day the actual results we get will matter, so we should pass a bill that gets results.)

Agree that Moyers is also a show not to be missed. It's great these folks all have their stuff available on line for those of us who miss the T.V. version...

Lynne Dee - how about, in addition to watching it yourself, sending the video url to everyone you know?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/29062335#29062335

They are not interested in solving anything

At this point, what you have is a bunch of old men desperate to prove to themselves that they are still powerful and relevant; that they haven't spent their whole lives trying to advance a fatally flawed and selfish worldview. Look for at least 4 more years of the same sneering, naysaying pontification.

Everyone commenting about Rachel Maddow's 100% right, this lady can explain clearly to anyone, if only she were working for Obama. The repubs are really out of it, it seems like the only people who are talking for them - like John McCain and Michael Steele know nothing about the economy and care less.
And these are the people who asked Joe the Plumber to speak for them!

My only quibble is with the analogy. Taxes aren't necessarily pouring gasoline on the fire, but it certainly doesn't help.

It's like if the fire department came to your house when it was on fire and started putting a new coat of paint on it. When you start yelling at them to stop painting the house and put out the fire, they tell you, "What? Are you crazy? Who doesn't want a new coat of paint on their house?" And then they'll calmly continue with the rollers.

I saw this segment when it was originally broadcast. I was thrilled to see Steve post this item. Rachel is a real treasure. I don't always agree with her, but she is one of the hardest working people in the media. She does her homework. She asks follow-up questions. You can't just blow smoke in her face without being challenged.

This video is absolutely amazing. She debunks all of the conservative talking points with FACTS. I have sent this video to my family and friends asking them to share it. I hope it goes viral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHw773EO314

"proof-positive that the Republicans are not trying to come up with an effective stimulus here"

My neighbor is retired, in these times he uses his reasonably new car to go grocery shopping and a few other essentials.

Calculate his total cost of delivery if he goes shopping five times a month (his average). H9is total cost of delivery for groceries comes to about %50-$70.

How in the fuck does Rachel expect poor people to pay that fee just to use their food stamps? They can get a laptop delivered for $30 to the front door but they have to travel two miles to get to Savemart.

"bullpuckey"??? God what a hack.

"I have said this on several blogs like Swampland and John Cole's spot. That Rachel Maddow clip should go viral. People you should be forwarding that clip to all your friends and family memebers."

yeah if you want to ruin your friends and families weekends by annoying them to death with another snark laden talking head.

Republican version of genius, from This Week:

STEELE: But you've got to look at the entire package. You've got to look at what's going to create sustainable jobs. What this administration is talking about is making work. It is creating work.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's a job.
STEELE: No, it's not a job. A job is something that -- that a business owner creates. It's going to be long term. What he's creating... STEPHANOPOULOS: So a job doesn't count if it's a government job? [..]
STEELE: ... That is a contract. It ends at a certain point, George. You know that. These road projects that we're talking about have an end point.

These people are clinically insane. You too grinning.

Those Repubs aren't too picky. I mean, they just selected a man who has been unemployed most of his life to be their leader. Government jobs not really being jobs and all. (By the way, is a national party committee really a "business" that can create a "job," or is Steele still both dumber than a box of rocks and unemployed?)

It would be nice if Maddow's work got more exposure and if more media spokespeople started paying attention to her style, because it truly works. She's essentially giving us all fantastic talking points.

Speaking for myself, she's sure helped me decipher the news and pare such overwhelming stories into approachable and digestible pieces.

Cogent and Coherent beyond belief.

I only hope she's not just preaching to the choir.
I think not, as I see she's getting many kudos and write-ups and tee-vee appearances...

You go, Rachel!

And yes--the Obama Administration should hire her as a consultant for media talking points!
================================================
Aren't her parents in education and law? She seems to be the perfect combo of both...with her own pizazz tossed in.

Love the line: "A stimulus bill like we the one we have ended up with, as of now--which is 42% tax--gets the American people 42% punked."

Republicans are punking America. Sounds about right to me.

Cutting Food stamps during a recession is a really, really bad idea. Food stamps support a number of smaller grocery stores that could not stay open unless their customers had food stamps to buy food with.

Rachel needs a thesaurus. Enough with the bull-puckey, already. As trademark terms go, it is clumsy, silly, edgeless, and too cute, imvho. Even if it is a great trademark, you are using it too much. Take advantage of our great language to create more than one usable quote.

PS love ya!

-- There is a huge noise machine right now and it includes not only the right and the MSM but factions within the progressives and liberals. Very difficult to plot a straight course for Obama.

This is war -- but a strategic war where sometimes success may first start out as failure. This bill may need to fail and our economy worsen before the consequences and suffering knock the bullshit out of the so called decision makers and perhaps people get into the streets.

In my very humble opinion, too much of the critique of Obama and this bill from our side is not focused on strategy, but on picking apart one provision or another -- which is fine and many times justified, but misses the larger problem -- we do not right now have a government functioning well enough to deal with this huge and profound disaster in a systematic, coherent and effective way. We have cars filled with clowns whirling round the Big Top, spilling out, squirting the audience with crazy foam and tweaking each other's noses. We have clowns crowning themselves as kings and producing reams of clown statistics and reports that are not bringing information, just more confusion and noise..

I know this, the strategy is up to Obama and his people and I hope that they are dialed into the reality of what we have. This country is not ready for bipartisanship. This country is not ready for real responsibility and accountability either. 8 years and longer of ineffective governance and leadership on both sides of the aisles have given us an environment similar to that of the Titanic after it hit the iceberg -- everyone headed for the lifeboats with the first dozen being lowered half filled with rich men and the people in steerage locked in to drown due to the struture of the ship to keep the poor away from the rich.

Its Obama's hand on the tiller though, and if I am him, that is how I want it. Hopefully he has one or two good people around him who he can trust but its up to him to go up to Mordor and escape with the ring.

I pray for him and us...

Matt Young, @14:07,

What the hell are you talking about???

"Calculate his total cost of delivery if he goes shopping five times a month (his average). H9is total cost of delivery for groceries comes to about %50-$70."

It costs him $10 (minimum) a trip? Where does he do his grocery shopping? 200 miles away?

"How in the fuck does Rachel expect poor people to pay that fee just to use their food stamps?"

I suppose she expects them to go somewhere closer than a town 200 miles away? Maybe use a bus, for a couple of bucks a trip? Maybe she thinks that they have been food shopping anyway, with or without food stamps? Just shopping a bit less than they might *with* food stamps? The habit of eating is one that's hard to break...

"They can get a laptop delivered for $30 to the front door"

The cost of *delivery* isn't everything; first you have to have the money for the damned *product*, before it can be delivered. If they have food stamps -- which they use on food (to the joy of grocery producers) -- they might, actually, also have enough money for stuff that's not covered by same (to the joy of non-food producers). Not a laptop, necessarily, but a pair of shoes, maybe.

"but they have to travel two miles to get to Savemart."

Are you totally nuts? What's a "Savemart"? Is it something like a military base shop or a duty free? With a limited access but, this time, limited to the food stamps shoppers?

I've never even heard of "Savemart"; there isn't one anywhere near where I live. But I've seen people pay for a part of their food bill with food stamps. In every grocery store in the area *and* Walmart. The only shops that don't accept food stamps are the little "convenience" shops and the fancy "organic" ones. But nobody with foodstamps would shop there anyway, since the prices are twice what you pay in a chain store. And, even with food stamps, you have to shop carefully; if you blow it all on organic leeks today, you won't have anything left for non-organic milk till next month.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, Matt! Are you *that* unaware of what food stamps are? Or are you just a shameless demagogue?

Exlibra said, What's a "Savemart"?

Have you ever heard of "the Google"? A quick search reveals that it's a chain in Central California.

Slicing and dicing

Matt Young : exlibra :: Republican senators : Maddow

Super fine cleaver work @ exlibra

The only thing I don't like about Maddow is that she sometimes get carried away with her smugness and goes for the easy, sleazy non-news stories like she did on Friday re: the single, no career woman who had like a million kids. (Olbermann really ran with this one).

I say save that crap for EXTRA--leave it off your show. Yeah, I know it's likely good for ratings, but it's a lame cop-out. No pass in my book. Especially for Maddow, who otherwise raises the bar way high. It seems out of sync.

These (rare and isolated) voyeuristic exploits don't ring true with the otherwise stellar compassionate work Maddow does--indeed, I say they smack of intellectual snobbery.

This mom is clearly confused and naive-- and likely mentally ill. It's just not news and it's not funny to me.

She put everyone at risk--her six children, herself and now these newborns. Sheez-- 14 of them now? Those poor kids! How on earth will they get the time, attention and direction they all deserve? They won't. And what kind of neglectful, physician would collude with such a plan?

Kent Jones is very funny and talented--surely he too could've come up with better stuff.

And who judges right and wrong? Her attitude will only serve to further divide an already divided country. Government is not the solution to our economic problems it is the cause.

Libs are in a panic to get this thing passed. The more people look at it, the more disgusted they are by Pelosi porking the country at a time of serious economic trouble. Wait another week and the truth starts spreading out from talk radio.

This is written for the "right.":

I am tired of your rancor.

I am sick of your stand on Food Stamps.

I was on Food Stamps during (some) of my student years.

I had a son and my wife used WIC credits as possible.

Bailing out banks.

Feeding children.

Like I said, I'm tired of your rancid rancor.

Pass the stimulus.

Pass it now.

Yours truly,

Those of us who are left.