so the gop are now on record as voting against the larges tax cut in history..

twice!

is that change they can believe in?

"Craven political gamesmanship I can understand. It's stupidity that bothers me."

well, they're republicans. what else would you expect of them?

"well, they're republicans. what else would you expect of them?"

more stupidity

Craven political gamesmanship I can understand. It's stupidity that bothers me.

Stupidity I can forgive. Lies, not so much. Once again this is a case where Republicans want Dems to own the problem without having to admit that it even exists, and certainly that they were the cause of it. That's not gamesmanship. That's cowardice, deception, and intellectual corruption at its worst.

Their fears are well grounded in reality, as their party has been over run by lunatic dittoheads. It's not often that republicans brush up against reality. It's now safe to say that when they do, they become paralyzed with fear.

"I think there are a lot of people in the Republican caucus who are glad to see this action taken without their fingerprints, without their participation

But you can expect them to complain about Sharrod Brown being flown back for the vote with taxpayer money any minute now.

The only RepuG Rep in the House from Oregon, Greg Waldon, voted against the bill because he felt the tax cuts were too limited.

However, for some courage, I submit Rep Peter DeFazio, one of our liberal Oregon Reps, who stood up to the President because he felt the bill provided too many tax cuts and not enough spending on schools and the infrastructure. He said he couldn't condone borrowing money in order to give tax cuts. Once again, Mr DeFazio stood tall.

I can understand naked ignorant stpuidity easier than craven gamesmanship. The threatening thing to the United States is stupidity cloaked in craven gamesmanship. The subtext of Specter's comments is that Rush Limbaugh and the 25 percenters are running the party but we knew that already.

Yea, only repubs are stupid. Oh wait...

A senior U.S. lawmaker said Thursday that unmanned CIA Predator aircraft operating in Pakistan are flown from an airbase inside that country, a revelation likely to embarrass the Pakistani government and complicate its counterterrorism collaboration with the United States.

The disclosure by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, marked the first time a U.S. official had publicly commented on where the Predator aircraft patrolling Pakistan take off and land.

Every GOP member who says that we need a stimulus bill, but didn't vote for the bill on offer, is basically saying the same thing. They recognize that if they had the power to stop the bill, instead of simply making political hay out of the issue, they would have voted differently.

No representative could vote for Porkulus knowing that it was good bill. Not a single representative had a time to actually read Porkulus before they forced to vote on it.

"forced to vote on it"

Dang, knew that would happen when the NRA armed the pages and interns with AK-47s.

Craven political gamesmanship I can understand.

I can understand it too. I wouldn't want to have to find a job in this economy.

What are the chances the Republicans will lose even more seats in 2010? Has any party in this country's history lost power in 3 consecutive elections?

If not, I'd love to see the Republicans try it. Yes they can!

Yea [sic], only repubs are stupid.

Well, Jingo, the discussion the non-crazy people are having is about this particular action of the Republicans being quite stupid and unfortunately quite representative of their behavior of late. Since you're a totally binary thinker incapable of assessing the meanings of words, the discussion could only get through your tiny mental peephole as "only Republicans are stupid." So, lashing blindly in the fear and shame you feel so often these days, you desperately offer up a totally unrelated example of a Democrat who, in fact, everyone here is constantly criticizing.

Fail. Don't you ever get tired of making a complete fool of yourself? You're like one of those drunks who thinks that if he keeps casually talking, no one will notice how hammered he is.

Republicans in Congress are all zombie slaves of Grover Norquist and Rush Limbaugh. From what Specter says, it looks like 5 or 10 of them actually wish they weren't zombie slaves. It's not really terribly encouraging to say that "only" 30 Senators have lost the capacity for independent thought.

Cowardice under fire is cowardice under fire; the rotpublicans have once again put their ideology on a higher pedestal than the Nation and the People.

When did these cowards swear undying fealty to Lord Limbaugh the Ludicrous?

Says to me that it's not an accident that the stimulus bill passed the Senate with exactly the number of votes that it needed. This is actually good news, IMO.

Obama's signature "Making Work Pay" credit would provide up to $400 for individuals and $800 for couples in 2009 and 2010. Most workers would see about a $13 a week increase in their take-home pay, starting around June.

The credit is phased out for individuals making more than $75,000 and couples making more than $150,000. Millions of low-income workers who don't make enough money to pay income taxes would get checks from the government when they file their 2009 tax returns.

They just don't want to deal with the partisan consequences of voting for it.

And

These lawmakers aren't crazy, and aren't out of touch with reality, they're just afraid of being punished for doing the right thing.

This doesn't make any sense. Everyone except Rush Limpbags and a few of his ilk has been leaping up and down screaming PASS THE FUCKING BILL ALREADY! By voting No, they've given potential opponents more ammunition.

I suppose you could argue they're protecting themselves from attack by potential Republican opponents who are even more pure (d-crazy) but it's hard to imagine a GOPer who is a)Further to the right of the assholes currently stinking up the Capitol and b)Would have a chance in hell of getting elected if he were.

What are they afraid of, Alan Keyes taking their job?

While I was pleased when Senator Brown voted, last night, I still believe in the principled stand of Rep Peter DeFazio. He knew his Nay vote was not going to defeat the bill, but, wanted to be on record saying too much needed spending had been deleted.

However, before I become too warm and fuzzy over Arlen, I still remember the "Arlen, right on, way to go" from RepuGs for his attacking Anita Hill and allowing Long Dong Silver into the Supremes. Yes, Arlen, some Jackasses still have long memories.

Neo, just possibly, many financially comfortable people might be happy to have a president who does the right thing by the nation, even at some cost to themselves. Moreover, many of them may consider it appropriate to help the less fortunate, not to mention wise to spend a lot of money to save the economy that is the foundation of their comfort. That works for me, anyway.

Yea, only repubs are stupid

Once again, not all stupid people are conservative, but all conservatives are stupid.

Neo, just possibly, many financially comfortable people might be happy to have a president who does the right thing by the nation, even at some cost to themselves. Moreover, many of them may consider it appropriate to help the less fortunate, not to mention wise to spend a lot of money to save the economy that is the foundation of their comfort. That works for me, anyway.

Not to mention that if you're part of a couple making between $150-250K or a single making $75-125K and you actually thought you'd be getting a tax break, you weren't paying attention to the info that the Obama campaign made freely available. That kind of cluelessness is probably not unusual among people who think of voting as strictly "quid pro quo."

What is pathetic is that not one of those gutless wonders was willing to step forward & cover for Ted Kennedy, who is gravely ill, or for Sharrod Brown, who had to interrupt his own mother's funeral services to fly in for the vote. Sorry, those two-faced SOBs make me sick, especially when at least one of them in a safe seat could have voted for the stimulus & made the excuse, "I'm only doing it for Ted." Shame on the cowardly lions.

The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com

The republicans certainly don't have a lock on stupidity, but this is not stupidity, it is cowardice, which is the opposite of courage. They are putting thet're own political interest ahead of the country's interest.

Craven political gamesmanship bothers me, but I am less concerned if it really is about Senator's doing what they know is wrong but inconsequential (voting against bill that is going to pass) because of their worries about possible primary campaign opponents.

That is opposed to the engaging in political gamemanship that is wrong and harmful (dishonestly attacking a necessary bill and trying to reduce public support for it) in an effort to position their party to reap a political advantage in the next general election.

I still think the second scenario applies to Republican Congressman and conservative commentators in general. The only good news is that most of the American public seems to be seeing through this tactic for now.

Neo: if you are a single filer making over $100,000 a year and are more about missing out on a tax credit of less than 0.4% of your gross income than about everything else happening in the economy right now, you are an idiot who probably didn't vote for Obama in the first place.

These lawmakers aren't crazy, and aren't out of touch with reality, they're just afraid of being punished for doing the right thing.

So: The lawmakers aren't crazy, but their party leadership and the rabid neo-Confederate base is.

That's reassuring...

Yea, only repubs are stupid. Oh wait...

Mike, if you imagine for a moment that Pakistanis aren't aware that we operate from bases inside Pakistan, than you really are stupid. Which wouldn't surprise me -- you also like to pretend that the NYT's revelation of Bush's illegal wiretapping program somehow tipped al Qaeda off to the fact that they were being tapped as opposed to the fact that Bush is a serial felon. I've long since bothered trying to figure out if you're stupid or dishonest -- it's obvious now that you're both.

Jackass.

....and as a follow up, Mike, you blithering idiot, you forget that DiFi has a) already been roundly criticized from in these forums for her incompetence, and 2) would be a Republican if she could get elected in her district running as such.

As shortstop pointed out, it's an example of your blinkered partisan thinking that you'd imagine anyone on these forums would be embarrassed by DiFi's comments on the Predator when we've already excoriated her for her support of Bush's illegal torture and wiretaps. Yes, DiFi sucks and ought to go. We agree on that. So what?

I think its a false choice to have to pick between stupidity and political expediency. Let's see, political expediency of the Democrats at having to agree with stupid policies in a post-9/11 world rife with false choices and nonsensical policy alternatives if not outright lying, cheating and stealing.

While I understand the sentiment, I still think it is dangerous thinking. If there is one thing we should be cautious of, at this edge of the cliff stage, its such wishful thinking.

I agree with your posts, I realize you are a responsible liberal blogger, but I can't possibly see eye-to-eye with such a preposterous proposition.

-- r

PS. I came here from Atrios's site, I am shocked Atrios agrees with it as well. Man, are we screwed..

The fact that you take a story told by Specter, designed to make him look heroic, and basically...believe it...says a ton about your politics, Steve. And your naivete.

You are doey-eyed.

Only in the warped, inverted reality of liberal land can stabbing your constituents in the back be considered courageous.

Nothing courageous about destroying our economy.

Idiots.

When the anti-Tax nuts said "Starve the Beast:,
Who knew they meant starve US, the people?
Is that why they caused the collapse of the world economy? Do they really hate democracy so much that they are willing to subvert Government of the People, By the People, and For the People by any means possible, like the Taliban?
It is fear of these hate mongers and antidemocracy and really anti Republican suversives, like the Club for Growth, that had republican members of the Congress cowering and not voting for what they know needs to be done.

Would you want one such as Arlen or the other cowardly Reps. in the same foxhole with you? Would you want to place your life in their hands? Choose between a courageous gay person and one of the cowardly Republicans/Blue Dog "Democrats". Who would run out of fear first?

Give me Liberty or give me a Republican!

peace,
st john

"Millions of low-income workers who don't make enough money to pay income taxes would get checks from the government when they file their 2009 tax returns."

Maybe they don't pay Income Taxes but they pay Payroll Taxes. Most people who get a paycheck, whether weekly or monthly etc pay payroll taxes, which are deducted from their paycheck along with social security taxes. And everybody who works pays social security taxes. This Income Tax/Payroll Tax issue is a source of confusion that is exploited by conservatives. You notice they never say that poor people don't pay taxes, they say they don't pay Income Taxes. Most people think they pay Income Taxes, because they file a tax return, but Income Tax and Payroll Tax are two different things.

"Craven political gamesmanship I can understand. It's stupidity that bothers me."

Now that's what I call damning with faint praise! Well done, sir.

I think I understand the sentiment here of appreciating the DeFazio stand and other Democrats like him. In reality, however, saying that you support what's in the bill but you're voting against it because it doesn't have all that you wanted puts him in the same exact category as these cowardly Republicans. He's not working for the people of his district or the people of the US at that point; he's just as a foolish ideologue like the Rs.

I think the three Republican senators who voted for the stimulus package showed guts. It is a sad day when elected officials do not see the necessity of investing in their own country.

Fail. Don't you ever get tired of making a complete fool of yourself? You're like one of those drunks who thinks that if he keeps casually talking, no one will notice how hammered he is.

Not to mention that the main point of the post was that Republicans weren't all stupid, some were instead craven and cowardly. But Mike reads that and his response was "yeah, well, here's one Democrat who's also stupid" when instead he should have reached for an example of a Democrat who was also craven and cowardly -- not that that's even that hard to do.

so the gop are now on record as voting against the larges tax cut in history..

And as we learned from Republicans, voting against a tax cut is the same as voting for a tax increase -- so, in effect, the GOP is now on record as voting for the largest tax increase in history....or, at least, that's what our advertising should now make plain.

But Mike K, Harry Reid was absolutely correct when he said that the Iraq war was lost. The surge hasn't "won" the war, only prolonged it. All Bush really wanted was to hand it off to someone else who could then be blamed for the outcome. How can you "win" an occupation? How can you "win" a struggle against a half-dozen or so different groups, all struggling for control, and all united only by their loathing of the occupier? You can't. The best you can hope for is to get out with a minimum of damage. And the likes of Bill Kristol and John McCain won't change that one bit with hollow rhetoric about "victory" being "within our grasp."

If you are a couple making between $150,000 and $250,000 [...] -- Neo ("neo" what? Neocon?), @9:56

... then extra $13 a week is not going to constitute a third of your weekly grocery budget. Even if you got it, you wouldn't appreciate it nearly as much as those who're trying to decide which of the barest necessities is going to be covered this week. You probably do not haunt the "refuse" shelves (stuff that's going out of date today), pick something up and put it down because, even at a third off, it's *still* too expensive.

And, shame on you for suggesting that everyone is as corrupt as you apparently are and can be bought. I for one, didn't vote for Obama expecting "a little "quid pro quo"" personally; I voted for him hoping that he'd help to make life more bearable to those human beings who need it the most. That'll make me happier too, since most of my own misery comes from observing the misery of others.

You're disgusting.

To be fair, what's really amazing is that Specter didn't do a Specter. His usual MO is to pretend he's listening to the other side and then vote with his party. That he didn't do it this time is as much a piece of craven gamesmanship as the other: He knows he has to appeal to moderates in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia or else he loses to a real wing nut in the primary - who probably couldn't carry the state in the general anyway.

Specter's seat is for the taking if the Dems can come up with the right candidate. Good riddance.

Right now, one side is going to be right the other wrong. There are however two sides - illustrative of our two party system.

The GOP didn't buy the bill, a lot of Dem's said "I don't know if this will work, but we have to do something". Obama was all about doing something "big" and something "quick".

It wasn't cowardice for the GOP to not back it, nor a great act of wisdom for the Dem's to support, because we just don't know.

There have been few that said this will definitively work - it's been more about getting a win for the Pres and his party. They got the win.

i suggest that there's no value in trying to discern the difference between stupidity and cowardice among the gop. in the first place, they often overlap, and in the second place, the gop must be destroyed completely forever, lest they torture again.

If his assessment is right, there are more than a few Senate Republicans who've looked at the evidence, read the reports, listened to the experts, and seen the kind of impact the stimulus package can have, and they believe the bill is worthwhile. They just don't want to deal with the partisan consequences of voting for it. These lawmakers aren't crazy, and aren't out of touch with reality, they're just afraid of being punished for doing the right thing.

Craven political gamesmanship I can understand. It's stupidity that bothers me.

Let's not forget the blowback on Hillary for her vote on the AUMF for Iraq. Talk about serious impact on your career! She might actually be in the WH instead of Foggy Bottom. It cost her a LOT of votes in primaries. Give BO his due, but also that vote was something she needed to overcome, and in the end she couldn't. It wasn't partisanship, per se, but its effect was the same. But it DID have to do with primaries, didn't it?

So, repercussions have to be considered real threats, whether GOP or Democrat.

.