February 18, 2009
Signs Of The Times
That the Financial Times has a headline that reads "Greenspan Backs Bank Nationalization" is truly a sign that we live in strange, strange times. Any moment now the sun shall become as black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon shall become as blood, and the stars of heaven shall fall unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind, and the seas shall turn to blood, and we shall hear an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
But in the general amazement, it's important not to lose sight of the fact that Alan Greenspan is not just one of the last people on earth I would have expected to endorse nationalization. He's also one of the people most responsible for the calamity that makes nationalization necessary (though as Yves Smith reminds us, he is not alone.) " "Greenspan Backs Bank Nationalization" is not like "Hayek: Keynes Was Right!". I've been trying to figure out what it is like, and I've come up with a few possibilities:
"Kaiser Wilhelm Backs Surrender To France, Allies:
Wars Of Aggression Wrong, German Monarch Claims"
"Typhoid Mary: Attention To Hygienic Food Preparation Vital To Public Health"
"Mao Zedong Backs Privatization:
'Great Leap Forward' An Act Of Idiotic Hubris That Cost Millions Of Lives For No Earthly Reason, Dictator Concedes
Backyard Smelters 'Particularly Boneheaded'"
"Sherman To Atlanta: Oops! My Bad!"
"Alaric: Great Cities Should Be Left Unmolested:
'I Liked Rome Better Before We Sacked It', Visigoth Laments"
"Satan Backs Christ's Effort To Redeem Mankind On Cross:
Regrets Involvement In Fall"
Want to add any of your own?
—Hilzoy 11:07 PM
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"Bush says weapons inspectors are really the way to go."
Posted by: JohnN on February 18, 2009 at 11:12 PM | PERMALINK
Bush and Cheney say it was stupid to pretend Iraq was an imminent threat - confide that we should've focused on that al Qaeda- and Taliban-infested Afghanistan.
Posted by: Big Jim Slade on February 18, 2009 at 11:17 PM | PERMALINK
Bill O'Reilly: "I'm sorry."
Posted by: gizmo on February 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM | PERMALINK
Sherman to Atlanta is off target. Greenspan did not understand that he was destroying the banking system.
Sherman understood very clearly that Atlanta had gone from a small town before the war to a boom town military supply post that was not possible to hold. Sherman intentionally evacuated the city and then burned it to the ground.
Posted by: bakho on February 18, 2009 at 11:19 PM | PERMALINK
All free marketeers shrug shoulders and say, "Huh, I guess regulation might be good for something" and "continually passing the buck on risk and pretending that makes it not risky was stupid."
Posted by: Big Jim Slade on February 18, 2009 at 11:19 PM | PERMALINK
I don't think I can top "Sherman To Atlanta: Oops! My Bad!", but I'll give it a go:
"Reagan says he was just being silly about government being the problem: 'In this present crisis, OF COURSE government is the solution!'"
Posted by: Jimbo on February 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK
Bush rethinks whole occupation and nation-building without a real plan idea.
Posted by: Big Jim Slade on February 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK
Pope says, "Ah crap, the women were right. Go ahead, get ordained."
Posted by: JohnN on February 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK
Ghost of Red Sox owner Harry Frazee calls deal selling Babe Ruth to Yankees a silly mistake.
Posted by: Big Jim Slade on February 18, 2009 at 11:28 PM | PERMALINK
"Bobbie Knight endorses anger management classes."
... I have to admit, this IS fun.
Posted by: JohnN on February 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM | PERMALINK
USSR says ix-nay on that whole central anning-play.
Mugabe says to Zimbabwe, "just kidding about the last 10 years, ha ha!'
Posted by: mroberts on February 18, 2009 at 11:30 PM | PERMALINK
Idi Amin says eating people's hearts just gave him heartburn and that he should've skipped the whole idea.
Posted by: mroberts on February 18, 2009 at 11:33 PM | PERMALINK
"Rabies virus to hold fundraiser for Pasteur's lab"
Posted by: calling all toasters on February 18, 2009 at 11:34 PM | PERMALINK
Chopin says: "rap rocks"
Posted by: Chopin on February 18, 2009 at 11:49 PM | PERMALINK
Not exactly what Hilzoy asks for, but headlines I'd like to see anyway.
GROVER NORQUIST DROWNS IN BATHTUB
Government investigates
CHENEY IN LAST THROES
Has 5 years to live, docs say
FRANKEN SWORN IN
Limbaugh still fat
RIC WARREN MARRIES LARRY CRAIG
Pat Robertson officiates
ANN COULTER CONVERTS TO ISLAM
Taliban insulted, embarassed
--TP
Posted by: Tony P. on February 18, 2009 at 11:51 PM | PERMALINK
House GOP to constituents: This stimulus bill is going to really help our district!
Posted by: gex on February 18, 2009 at 11:51 PM | PERMALINK
Kaiser Wilhelm Backs Surrender To France, Allies:
Wars Of Aggression Wrong, German Monarch Claims
That's kind of what happened, actually, in October 1918...
Posted by: John on February 18, 2009 at 11:56 PM | PERMALINK
"I guess we should nationalize the banks after all", said Greenspan. "Recent events have been very interesting and unexpected. They've certainly surprised me, but of course, if you know what the answers are going to be, you don't need to do the experiment."
"I'm reminded of a story about Thomas Edison's early attempts to come up with the lightbulb", he went on. "Edison had tried a thousand different elements, and all had failed. A colleague asked him if he felt his time had been wasted, since he had discovered nothing. 'Hardly,' Edison answered. 'I have discovered a thousand things that don't work.' "
"So Jeffrey Sachs does one experiment in Russia and finds one thing that doesn't work, and Domingo Cavallo does another experiment in Argentina and finds another thing that doesn't work, and the Mont Pelerin Society does another experiment in Iceland and finds still another thing that doesn't work, and It's all good! We're all really contributing to the same research program. It's just part of the march of science."
"If we're allowed to continue our work, without interference from Luddites and know-nothings, sooner or later we'll certainly find something that works. There's never been a better time to be an economist than right now!
Posted by: John Emerson on February 19, 2009 at 12:02 AM | PERMALINK
Nero Swaps Fiddle For Water Bucket
Posted by: gradysu on February 19, 2009 at 12:04 AM | PERMALINK
While I've long supported the Swedish approach to this problem, I don't think all is as it appears with Greenspan's position on nationalization. I agree with Bleeding Heartland commenter ragbrai08:
http://www.bleedingheartland.com/showComment.do?commentId=5777
Nationalizing some banks temporarily may translate to "Sacrificial lambs that mask the boondoggle for Alan's friends."
Posted by: desmoinesdem on February 19, 2009 at 12:07 AM | PERMALINK
Capt. Ahab "Sick and Tired of Chasing Whale"
Alexander Of Macedon: "Greece Good Enough For Me"
Odysseus: "Why Don't We Just Camp Out On This Beach?"
And Don Quixote: "Oh, It Is Just a Windmill!"
Posted by: Proper Gander on February 19, 2009 at 12:14 AM | PERMALINK
Larry Craig launches "You Better Be Pooping in There" campaign to rid America's airport men's room stalls of vice.
Posted by: tosser on February 19, 2009 at 12:19 AM | PERMALINK
i believe
there are two things
that we each should know how to do
admit it when we are wrong
and
be able to say i'm sorry
one is for society
the other
our own
eternal soul
Posted by: estebanfolsom on February 19, 2009 at 12:26 AM | PERMALINK
Truman: "Didn't really need to bomb Hiroshima to defeat Japan, just did it to raise the Russkies outa the game. Didn't work for that, either."
Reagan: "I just found out the special effects guys can't really stop missiles. Cancel Star Wars."
Nixon: "Honesty is best. Release the tapes."
T Cruise: "L Ron is a major loon."
Matthew: "Oops. A typo. Isaiah just says young girl. Ah well, who'll care? Virgin, schmirgin."
Posted by: The Pondonome on February 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM | PERMALINK
Britney and Federline split up.
Posted by: Stuck on February 19, 2009 at 1:11 AM | PERMALINK
A close runner up. George Bush survives attack of the Pretzels.
Posted by: Stuck on February 19, 2009 at 1:12 AM | PERMALINK
Bonds: "It was stupid to lie to the feds."
GWB: "Wow, this science thing is cool!"
Posted by: joebdoc on February 19, 2009 at 1:22 AM | PERMALINK
Mel Gibson: "My bad, it was really the Romans that crucified Christ. Kind of ironic how they ended up in charge of his church, isn't it?"
Posted by: tanstaafl on February 19, 2009 at 1:24 AM | PERMALINK
Since Alaric the Goth has come up, an historical tidbit from a descendant:
"In 410, my illustrious forbear, Alaric was obliged to undertake a "collection" action against Honorious, Emperor of Rome in the West. The unpaid bill was eventually satisfied in events later exaggerated by meretricious historians who styled it "The Sack of Rome" I should note here that Alaric (unlike George Bush) adhered to the admonition later enunciated by that profound political thinker, Tony "Scarface" Montana: "No women, no kids". That is to say, despite the unpleasant necessity of killing all the adult men of arms in order to collect the unpaid wages of his soldiers (who had fought faithfully for Honorius), Alaric gave and enforced orders that no women or children were to be harmed"
Posted by: jollyroger on February 19, 2009 at 1:50 AM | PERMALINK
Bush says, "We should have taken the time to get it right and counted every vote in Florida."
Posted by: Howard on February 19, 2009 at 1:57 AM | PERMALINK
godwin to bloggers: i luv hitler references!
(sorry, it's a little meta.)
Posted by: skippy on February 19, 2009 at 1:58 AM | PERMALINK
Israeli government admits "Gazans are human, should be treated with respect"
Posted by: rbe1 on February 19, 2009 at 2:44 AM | PERMALINK
Sir Salman Rushdie: Saying "Khomeini was right," commits suicide in Najaf.
Posted by: Petronius on February 19, 2009 at 2:56 AM | PERMALINK
Greenspan continues: "However, Nationalization of banks should ideally be replaced in 4 years with Privatization of banks."
Whew! That's more like it.
Posted by: maya on February 19, 2009 at 3:01 AM | PERMALINK
This won't be a well-received point of view here, but I think Greenspan is getting a bad rap. He was wrong about the asset bubble, but he's one among many. Yes, he deserves censure for that, and for making it worse; but all-in-all, Greenspan was a strikingly pragmatic and level-headed Chairman of the Fed considering that he's a Randroid. I don't know how he reconciles his professional life with his Rand association, but he's somehow rejected most of Rand's views on macroeconomics. I vaguely recall an article I read that detailed his youthful association with the Rand clique and that, even then, he had independent ideas about economics.
I think the man is more a pragmatist than an ideologue and his willingness to embrace Keynesian stimulus is an example of this. It doesn't surprise me in the least and I feel that Hilzoy doesn't know that much about the man or she wouldn't find this as ironic as she does.
Keep in mind that the true-believer Randroids tend to be strong libertarians and followers of Austrian economics. That view quite directly attacks the very existence of central banks...Greenspan simply cannot be a card-carrying member of that lunatic fringe and still have had the professional career he's had.
Posted by: Keith M Ellis on February 19, 2009 at 3:55 AM | PERMALINK
Cheney to United States: Oops! My Bad!
Posted by: Colin on February 19, 2009 at 4:11 AM | PERMALINK
Cheney to Congress: "F*** me!"
China to the world: "Lead free is the way forward!"
Limbaugh swears undying loyalty to Obama administration and Democratic (no-sic) Party; Christian Taliban endorses matriarchal belief regimen as "one true way."
Posted by: Steve W. on February 19, 2009 at 4:24 AM | PERMALINK
"Global warming is not only anthropogenic, but also being hugely accelerated by my insistence on hydrocarbon driven transportation," says Dick Cheney, who in continuation recommends "moving low-lying cities inland."
Posted by: SteinL on February 19, 2009 at 4:51 AM | PERMALINK
Everyone's talking about the Swedish solution to the banking crisis. Here's Sweden's prime minister to GM:
GM is setting a trap for us. They're trying to walk away from their obligations, hoping the gov't will step in and take over. But we were elected to improve infrastructure, the school system and health care (it's a conservative gov't, go figure), not to support a car brand that's been losing money for decades due to GM mismanagement.
Hmmm - where does that figure in the order of things?
Posted by: SteinL on February 19, 2009 at 4:53 AM | PERMALINK
"He's also one of the people most responsible for the calamity"
A very disputed p[inion and as near as I can tell only a minority of economists now believe this. Hilzoy's real theory gopes something like this:
"I want things from government, so my best path to get these things is to believe whatever nonsense gets me these things"
Posted by: MattYoung on February 19, 2009 at 5:09 AM | PERMALINK
Charles Goren: One peek is worth two finesses.
Posted by: Danp on February 19, 2009 at 7:32 AM | PERMALINK
Plato: Reality Rules. Everything else is just a figment of your imagination.
Posted by: Tim H on February 19, 2009 at 7:51 AM | PERMALINK
Keith M Ellis wrote: "I think the man is more a pragmatist than an ideologue and his willingness to embrace Keynesian stimulus is an example of this. It doesn't surprise me in the least and I feel that Hilzoy doesn't know that much about the man or she wouldn't find this as ironic as she does."
You have any example of Greenspan as a pragmatist that aren't 6 months old? To me, Greenspan is/was a one-trick pony - things aren't going well - lower interest rates.
MattYoung wrote:
"A very disputed p[inion and as near as I can tell only a minority of economists now believe this. Hilzoy's real theory gopes something like this"
I think he's certainly viewed as central to the discussion in terms of whether or not he kept interest rates too low for too long - not many economists would say that his actions were correct there. As for his involvement in the rest of the mess, I think it's a wash - some good, some bad. But by keeping interest rates too low, he allowed the asset bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble - and that is the beginning of the housing crisis. I don't think there is much disagreement among economists about that. If you've got examples, let's see them.
Posted by: inthewoods on February 19, 2009 at 7:54 AM | PERMALINK
Rush Limbaugh - What we need now is a little humility.
Posted by: Danp on February 19, 2009 at 7:56 AM | PERMALINK
William the Conqueror: England's a nice place and should be kept as it is.
Posted by: MissMudd on February 19, 2009 at 8:00 AM | PERMALINK
Dali Lama-nuke China!
Posted by: the seal on February 19, 2009 at 8:04 AM | PERMALINK
Conquering and looting economically vulnerable countries may not always be the most decent thing to do - Milton Friedman
Posted by: Michael7843853 on February 19, 2009 at 8:23 AM | PERMALINK
Bush: "Good time to pick up some bargains in real estate, especially on the water near New Orleans"
Posted by: Patrick on February 19, 2009 at 8:26 AM | PERMALINK
TARKIN IMPEACHED
Emperor calls planetary obliteration "a heinous crime"
Posted by: BruceK on February 19, 2009 at 8:35 AM | PERMALINK
Steel to Washington Times: You are Whackjobs!
Posted by: Bob Johnson on February 19, 2009 at 9:16 AM | PERMALINK
Whenever someone tells me how brilliant some powerful man is I say "like Alan Greenspan?"
This about face illuminates his ideological foolishness.
Posted by: Harold S. on February 19, 2009 at 9:55 AM | PERMALINK
Murdock: In view of our present economic reality, Hugo Chavez has been offered a weekly guest opinion column in the WSJ.
Posted by: maya on February 19, 2009 at 10:13 AM | PERMALINK
Kaiser Wilhelm Backs Surrender To France, Allies:
Wars Of Aggression Wrong, German Monarch Claims
That's kind of what happened, actually, in October 1918...
Yeah, because reality smacked the Kaiser upside the head pretty much the same way that it has Greenspan, which is why it is almost the best analogy of the bunch.
But its important to note that Greenspan hasn't acknowledged that what he's always said was wrong and that the policy prescriptions he's embraced are a big part of what led us to this crisis, he's said that this circumstances are an exceptional, once in a century confluence of events, in which you have to make an exception to what he has always advocated, which remains the right path everytime except that once a century.
So, essentially, he's doing the minimum possible to acknowledge reality while still defending the general approach to policy that got us here, in effect embracing the idea that you should deregulate until that causes a massive collapse, and then nationalize until you've restored stability, and then repeat the cycle, rather than recognizing that maybe you should do something to stop the decline into collapse before you've gone deep into the whole, or maybe even not start down the road to collapse in the first place.
Posted by: cmdicely on February 19, 2009 at 10:21 AM | PERMALINK
Lack of regulation in banking is but a part of the accumulated debt problem, which is due largely to borrow-and-spend liberals like Bush (the old King of Spenders) and Obama (the King of Spenders is deposed, long live the King of Spenders) and free trade ideologues.
Posted by: luther on February 19, 2009 at 10:34 AM | PERMALINK
Duncan Black moves to the suburbs. 1 acre lot and 2 SUVS.
.
Posted by: agave on February 19, 2009 at 10:52 AM | PERMALINK
"Pope Benedict XVI: masses are the opiate of the masses"
Posted by: Tommy on February 19, 2009 at 11:19 AM | PERMALINK
Stalin: Collectivization bad policy, Kulaks to be released from gulags.
Posted by: cp1919 on February 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM | PERMALINK
Republican Reps/Sens: Maybe we should help the Dems pass the stimulus bill ... even though we haven't first bombed our US as we did in Iraq.
Posted by: Anon on February 19, 2009 at 11:30 AM | PERMALINK
"Maybe I should've stuck to teaching economics or playing chess." -- Ken Rogoff
Posted by: MarkH on February 19, 2009 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK
I thought "even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs" was one of the funniest things I'd read in a while. Then I did some some fast googling and discovered that it's an actual King James Bible verse and not a parody of one. At which point it remained just as funny. It won't be long until my friends are mightily sick of my incessant references to untimely figs.
Posted by: gogiggs on February 19, 2009 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK