Pope Benedict, whose entire life and career have been centered on the realm of make-believe, is utterly clueless regarding the kinds of responsible positions he should be upholding. Also, the Roman Catholic church, based on the recently documented, rampant sexual misbehaviors of its clergy, is egregiously lacking in credibility for administering lectures to anyone, anywhere, on issues and standards of morality.

"a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development."

If I remember correctly, Catholic doctrine is just as clear on the immorality of capital punishment. Why is it that conservative Catholic politicians never seem to take any public heat for their stances?

Somebody might want to remind the Pope that in the United States, at least, elected officials are supposed to represent the views of their constiuents, who in Pelosi's case are almost overwhlemingly pro-choice.

...and were prohibited from entering the country.

It is a shame, though, that the Phelps-o-saurs were not likewise prohibited from re-entering the US.

********************************************

Oh, and about the Pope-thing: It seems that he's actively engaging in the effort by the de facto head of a foreign government (the Vatican having sovereignty and all) to interfere with the lawful workings of the US Government.

Don't we have a carrier group or something in the Med right now? I move for a little "shock and awe"....

I thank a merciful God that my father renounced the Catholic Church years before I was so much as a gleam in his eye.

Ratzinger's intestines would no doubt make excellent king-stranglers.

the U.S. Speaker of the House, who happens to be a devout Catholic

This is inaccurate. Pelosi, at most, has said that she was raised Catholic. She has never made a public statement in her adult life expressing an actual, literal belief in any Catholic dogma or theological doctrine.

I would like to see the Roman Catholic Church speak out about other examples of supporting the dignity of human life that legislators should honor, such as NOT supporting illegal and unjust wars, torture, and on and on. Their obvious focus on the unborn devalues the present living.

The Phelps news is *awesome*. The only thing that could have made it better is if our own U.S. border agent had rejected him as well, and then the Earth herself had rejected him and expelled him into space. Oh yes, along with his daughter. What morally bankrupt folks those two are - it's good God made 'em ugly so we'd be wary of them from the get-go.

And the Hitler Pope? Who gives a good s**t what that monster with the crazy eyes says? If all the Catholics in this country who didn't follow the Pope's advice were to suddenly stop being Catholic tomorrow, all that would be left in the faith would be little old ladies. This country would be rid of the faith entirely in the next 20 years. And, really, it couldn't happen to a more deserving faith. Next up: The Protestants!

I seem to recall that ages ago, when JFK was running for president, that there was great angst on the right about "the pope in Rome" running this country---guess that's okay with the right-wing on these issues. I wonder too about church attendance and adherence to doctrine when the world's population reaches about 10 billion.

For comic relief about God, try these links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsPwtJCuC-U

Also at http://www.fiveshock.com/ran/scary.html

More of this Plan-9 grade stuff can be found all over the Internet, I can't imagine why I just found out about it recently.

> human life at all stages of its development
>> capital punishment

See, once you get past reproductive age, the stages of development are over. The stages of degeneration follow.

After the time when the genes can have been passed on, neither the Church nor evolution care what happens to the individual human body.

It all makes excellent sense.

If the Catholic Church is going to lobby the government on public policy issues, shouldn't they be subject to the same laws as every other lobbying group? And really, shouldn't they be taxed the same as any other business would be?

Matthew Shepard? How many straight children have been molested and murdered by homosexuals like you? A lot. How many Christians have been assaulted by homosexuals like you because you didn't like the way they voted? A lot. How many Christian churches have been burned down by homosexuals like you because you disagree with the Holy Bible? A lot. Matthew Shepard is in eternal hell fire now and will never get out.
Whatever you think, you will not be able to change God's Word and will one day have to pay the price for not believing what God has written.
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:22-27

V22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, V23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

V24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

V25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, Who is blessed for ever. Amen.

V26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

V27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life.

"See, once you get past reproductive age, the stages of development are over."
Hank Roberts on February 21, 2009 at 5:01 PM

And for the Church in its current form, that would be, what, about 16, 17?
Or does that only count for boys?

Yeh, right -- Pimpmaster Law is living out his dotage in luxury in Rome, but I'm the @$$hole here. Riiiight.

Rev. Donald Spitz:

"He rails against "filthy faggots" and "lesbos." Islam is "Satanic," Arabs are "Rag-Heads," and Muslims "should not be allowed to live in the United States." New York City is a "sex perverted cesspool" that richly deserved Sept. 11.

But there is one type of vicious group hatred Don Spitz has always denied — the "false accusations of racism" against blacks "put out by desperate babykilling abortionists." If a black man accepts Christ, "then that man is my brother."

Well, maybe. And maybe not.

This summer, on the Web site long run by Spitz, a remarkable series of headlines began to appear under "Current News Stories for Christians." To almost anyone but Spitz, these racy one-liners reflect the crudest kind of racism."

Hey Donny, there's medication out there. Seek help.

Pelosi should officially excommunicate Pope Benedict.

I wonder where Phelps gets the money from, to gallivant not just around US but the world. Maybe from from slime like that spittle-flecked abomination that has posted at 17:44. I needed a hot shower after reading just the first paragraph.

And, winddancer, @14:30,

The previous Pope *was* against all the stuff you mention, including unjust wars. But, with Nazinger, what can you expect?

Well, the Pope would be well advised to re-excommunicate the British bishop who is a history revisionist. Argentina just kicked him out of the country for "offending Argentine society, the Jewish community, and humanity in general" by denying the Holocaust never existed.

That the Pope has the nerve to excoriate Pelosi for her position on abortion, after he re-admitted into the church an avowed revisionist, is beyond the pale.

Yet, Pope Benedict was indoctrinated at an early age in the "Hitler Youth Movement". This might explain the latest "faux-pas", but in no way does it exonerate him, or the Catholic Church. Quite the contrary.

You tell 'em, Rev. Spitz. God hates shrimp, too![1] And clothing made of mixed fiber -- NO MORE MIXING![2] And any woman having her period is unclean and cannot be touched by a man.[3] And if someone rapes your daughter, it's all good if he pays you fifty shekels of silver and marries the lass.[4]

The Middle Eastern God of 4,000 years ago that you worship is great and wise and deserving of all praise for all time. Nothing has changed since that time that would ever make us alter this fixed, unchanging view.

[1] http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Lev.%2011:9-12&version=9;
[2] http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2022:11
[3] http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2015:19
[4] http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2022:28-29;&version=31;

p.s. And the pope's a dick, too.

"His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church's consistent teaching on the dignity of human life..."

There is noting 'natural' nor 'moral' about the Catholic church, or it's beliefs and behaviors. it's religiosity is continually contrived and politicized for the usurpation of wealth and power, has been so practically from it's inception. There have been on occasion justice seeking liberal movements that have found their way out of that flock, but they have been few and far between...(for expedience on this point: some Catholic clergy were hard-core anti-war activists and civil rights people of the 60's, of course many were excommunicated for their actions). This current Pontiff clearly represents dropping back in time several centuries, embracing archaic and conservative dogmas on many levels and with concerns to many issues (antisemitism anyone?). He clearly needs to realize that the 'liberals' have assumed power in America, so for the time being he will have to resort to previous finger wagging disciplines in regard to the abortion issue... in other words, sweep it back under the rug for the time being.

I think that there a couple of potential errors in Steve's story:

"The Pope's public statement neglected to mention any of these issues."

This appears to be a missunderstanding of what Roman Catholic dogma on "pro life" actually is. Look at the Pope's statement:

"...the Church's consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death..."

This is being treated as code words for "abortion", but that is not the case. See ChristiFideles Laici #38:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_30121988_christifideles-laici_en.html

This is not a narrow teaching, but a very, very broad one. Pelosi is (seemingly) in public dissent about some particular types of attacks on the inalienable rights of the human person.

So, from a Catholic theological point of view, the Vatican appears to be saying, the speaker was reminded that it is incoherent (from our point of view) to promote our teaching on life piece meal. The foundation is the believe that every human life has value, regardless of stage of development or condition. If we are not uniform and consistant (torture, death penalty, modern forms of slavery, abortion, euthanasia...) we undermine the whole.

Pelosi, in turn, is pointing out to aspects of the very broad teaching with which she and the Holy See are in seeming complete communion. All the items listed are, most assuredly, "right to life" issues for Catholics, even climate change (see Benedict's statement at the Vatican's Conference on the subject).

"For his part, Pope Benedict has expressed support for excommunicating elected officials who support abortion rights, though his spokesman later said he has no plans to formally punish anyone in specific."

I would have to say that, based on everything I have studied, this is an incorrect interpretation. Benedict seems to have stated, in a less formal setting, that politicians "risk" excommunication. Further, that certain types of pro-choice political activity can rise to the level of Canon Law for the refusal of communion (CIC 915).

Because we are historically, and still predominantly, a Protestant nation, one might naturally picture this as one would picture a seperatist theology group, like the Puritans - watch out, lest you be cast out...

But the word Catholic means 'universal' (see the Nicene Creed, which many non Catholic denominations still use). We also pray at each Mass for unity and peace. The point of all punishment, including extraordinary punishment, like excommunication or withholding communion, is supposed to be instructional.

In other words, it is not to 'protect the Church', but solely for the salvation of the individual. So, the pope was not saying, 'toe the line in public or else!'

The Pope was saying, 'be careful! look at our written dogma, you are getting precariously close to a teaching which already carries an automatic sentence of excommunication (latae sententiae)...'

If this seems like hair splitting, remember what excommunication actually is - the person cannot take the sacraments (ex. communion) or directly participate in the liturgy, but is welcomed and expected to be at Mass and remain within the community (remember, the goal is their salvation, not protecting the Church - where should sinners be, surrounded by the body of the faithful, or alone with tempation?)

LOTs of US Catholics don't get this either. But, again, we grow up in a largely Protestant/Puritan culture.

Regards.

If it's not too much trouble, could you please explain to me the difference between a devout catholic and the rest of us?

Umm, why do we care what the Nazi Pope says about morality? Given the Catholic Church's support of pedophilia and genocide, they aren't exactly the people we should be looking to for moral guidance. Although one could argue that we should listen to the Pope as an example of what is morally wrong. But I'll stick to ignoring His Naziness.

Ratzi the Nazi, busy leading the world back to the 10th Century, when Popes - no matter how many women they had sex with and how many children they fathered - were In Control.

This from a Pope who recently rehabilitated Richard Williamson, a bishop who recently said: "I believe that the historical evidence is hugely against 6 million having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler."

AND

"I believe there were no gas chambers" and only up to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, instead of 6 million. And there were no gas chambers."

Give-me-a-break.

Thank you "Reverend" Spitz for demonstrating so well what ten generations of hillbilly incest can create. Maybe you should wipe the sawdust out of your hair and go play with that rattlesnake.

Fundamentalist southern dumbass.

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made clear to Pope Benedict XVI Wednesday that he cannot advocate for protecting pedophile priests and still be a good human being."

I like the news better in *my* world, thank you very much.

And since when is the Pope allowed to be a cafeteria Catholic when it comes to public policy priorities?

As offensive as the comments about the Nazi pope are, I'm more offended by professional Catholics giving lectures. Like the bizarrely named TruthfulCitizen, who is simply mistaken about Nancy Pelosi's personal history, and our boy Fitz, who gives a long trendy lecture about ya can't be Catholic in our Protestant culture, blithely ignorant of the world Pelosi (and I) grew up in.

If, as I do, you would seriously discourage almost anyone in most although not all circumstances from having an abortion, who are you going to turn to -- popes (and I respect Benedict, if not his successor) who not only have no families of their own but haven't even had siblings trying to raise families, or a woman who said of her five children as they grew up that she wished she could leave them out in the rain so they shrank and she could do it over again? But then if the Catholic church had chosen to serious rather than indulging clerical fantasies in the last forty some years the Polish sociopath would be a very obscure footnote and Patty Crowley would be a household name.

Although it's great fun in a way, we liberals do not do ourselves any favor by insulting the Pope or poor Reverend Spitz. The folk (volk?) on the right use such insults against us. Also, I say poor with regard to Spitz because the mind he inhabits has to be a cesspool of horror. As an Episcopalian, I will pray for him. May he come to realize just how much harm he does with his views.

I personally think that the Catholic Church lays WAY to much emphasis on abortion and not enough on the lives of the post-born. I hope that more balance will come to be the case for Catholics. By all means do be consistent as to respecting the dignity of all humans. This also means defrocking priests proven to be pedophiles.

But I will say that the Pope and the Catholics who agree with him are being irresponsible in the extreme vis-a-vis birth control. Birth control is an absolute necessity today and is an essential component of respecting the dignity of every human being. Period. Moreover, the more birth control is used, the fewer abortions. DUH. IMHO, anyone who claims to be anti-abortion and also anti-birth control simply is not serious. I hope that future Popes will figure out how to extricate the Catholic Church from its outdated position in this case.

"Pope Benedict XVI made clear to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Wednesday that she cannot advocate for abortion rights and still be a good Catholic."

So then excommunicate her. Shit or get off the pot, godboy.

TruthfulCitizen ...is simply mistaken about Nancy Pelosi's personal history

Gene,

You must have confused my comment with someone else's. I didn't say a word about her personal history. I was addressing the claim that she is a "devout Catholic." As I noted, she has never publicly affirmed a belief in any Catholic dogma or other theological doctrine. This is to be contrasted with the Christianity of Obama, who in interviews has specifically expressed a belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ, the Resurrection, etc. If you have evidence of similar statements by Pelosi (other than general claims of being Catholic or going to church), please provide them.

Thank god the Founding Fathers and Mothers were not Catholic. The whole point of this country is, everyone is free to indulge in their own religious delusion but they are not free to impose their delusion on others. (My delusion is that the great god Jefferson will damn unto eternity all Dominionists.)

So far as I can tell, the crux of the Vatican's opposition to abortion has something to do with a posited "immortal soul" --- historically, the justification for its terrorist actions around the world --- which, ghostlike, enters the fetus at conception.

I think it's more likely the "soul" does not obtain immortality until it is experienced enough to reject Delusionism in its many forms. If it were up to me, these ecclesiastical heretics would be drawn, quartered and burned at the stake for their offenses against the great god Jefferson. But the great god prohibits me because theological speculation should never be the basis for real-world sanctions.

Isn't it time that the Catholic Church be relegated to the status of cults like Scientology and Amway Sales or the Man-Boy Love Association?

He's got a lot on his plate, but I look forward to Obama's working on reducing the abortion rate as the Democrats promised to try to do.

I suspect they'll succeed as long as Bush's depression doesn't cause mothers-to-be to fear for their children going hungry and being homeless.

The food stamps cuts may cause some of those abortions the GOP claims to lament so much.

Morality isn't always free, friends.

Rev. (sic) Spitz's opinion on the beliefs or actions of others should carry no weight whatsoever. He uses his own website to try to make heroes out of murdering terrorists like Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, John Salvi, and James Kopp. He is so delusional that he thinks that he was ordained by the International Gospel Crusade, a denomination that only exists in his imagination.