He can commit suicide....that's another option.

He can become a hooker. They don't pay income taxes. Just their pimps.

It would be remarkably not unlike what he does now.

We're having trouble getting other countries to take our Guantanamo prisoners. You think we can get someone to take Jonah Goldberg?

Just out and tell him, "America: love it or leave it."

I pay my taxes also, but I don't want to pay taxes to red states that get subsidized by our taxes, like South Carolina, Alabama, West Virginia. They hate liberals so why should liberals pay their share of taxes, also, the governors of those states & senator Lindsay Graham, who say they don't want the stimulus, I would say PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT!

"I will look for every means within the boundaries of the law to minimize what I pay in taxes . . ."

And this is a novelty for him?

He can just not pay his taxes. And then he can go to jail in support of his deeply held beliefs.

He may find that all those alternative countries (of the non-third world variety) he might move to have better government services, better worker protections......and higher taxes. While spending less on what I would guess is his favorite government expense, the military.

He can donate up to 50% of his income to charity.

then he would be in a lower bracket. His tax bill would go down by more than 50%.

Yes, only the most obvious.

He can become super wealthy and earn all of his money with inflated Halliburton stock options.

This way he pays NO taxes ever.

Duh.

He and the rest of the anti-tax, anti-govt wingnuts could go somewhere where there are no taxes or government. You, like Somalia.

He could put a steeple on his ass and call himself a church.

What's wrong with both? He can leave the country AND write less frequently.

Or, he could successfully lobby for legislation to create the Cheeto Deduction.

i think he should hold his breath until he turns blue, then maybe his mom or his wife will fix the situation for him.

for such a lousy, sloppy thinker, he is such a loathsome person. lumpy of "leave it to beaver" land comes to mind.

just not slick enough to be eddie haskell.

Someone set up a website where Golberg can notionally swap his income tax payments for the Iraq war with some lefty who wants to pay for national health care.

It would be totally symbolic of course, and no money would change hands but at least Golberg would feel pure.

Alternatively, he could just make a notation on his IRS check "For the Iraq war, past present and future." That would work, since we'll be paying for that catastrophe for Golberg's whole life.

If an American citizen is really offended by the decisions of the U.S. government, and his or her preferred candidates keep losing elections, he or she can withhold financial support by going to some other country, whose economic policies they find more appealing.

Actually, he not only has to do that, he has to renounce his citizenship and become a citizen of that other country. U.S. Citizens are taxed by the U.S. on their worldwide income. Failing that, he can move to a high tax nation, and he'll get a credit for taxes paid to that other country sufficient that his U.S. tax burden will be eliminated.

Snark aside, penalcolony nailed it. We have laws that say how much we're supposed to pay in taxes, and strangely enough, they don't say we have to pay any more than that. This is why people hire accountants. There are huge sections of the tax code that allow you to legally lower your tax burden if you spend your money properly (Jonah, these are typically called deductions). The IRS doesn't want you to pay any more than you are legally obligated to pay. I'm not sure why he thinks he's being really subversive by pledging to pay only what he owes. What a dipshit.

OK, maybe there is a country with an acceptable lifestyle and really low taxes he could move to. On another planet.

A US citizen's global income is taxed by the IRS. It is not enough to go to another country, he would have to renounce US citizenship.

Just trying to help.

Or he can give away or spend all he has, refuse to pay taxes and qualify for taxpayer-funded three hots and a shower daily plus shelter at a federal prison.

He can stop working completely. Then, to make ends meet, invest everything in the markets. That way, any profits he makes will be taxed at 15% as opposed to his current higher tax bracket.

I know a guy, Bernie something who would be a great person to invest with. Totally safe.

He can risk his very own life for the US military, and make sure to get deployed. Deployed servicemen and women do not pay any taxes on their income.

Of course, he'll have to sell his house (the cheaper the better, to avoid paying taxes on the sale), and avoid purchasing any products in the US, too. But that's a small price to pay for idealism!

I understand when people don't like paying for something that they consider bad. Some people hate paying for our huge military.

But I don't understand people who don't like paying for stuff they think are good: medical care, food, housing, education.

The basic idea is that they have "earned" their money through their own superior skills. For instance the small business owner has earned their $250k plus income. These are the same business owners who might have to fire an employee or two if taxes go up. (BTW, for the next $750,000 in income the small business owner should expect their taxes to go up a total of $30,000, less than the cost of one $15/hr job).

But these small business owners are said to have earned this money, their take home profit. Now, maybe one of the ways they earned their money was by paying lower wages. But they earned it because it is okay with them that they can find enough workers to work for lower wages.

Some of them went to school paid for by their parents, and then called this pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.

How come it's only the righties who get to say they don't wanna pay for things???

If anything SCREAMS for an annual audit of his income taxes, by the IRS, Goldbergs statement does. Are you paying attention IRS?

the alternative i could suggest can't be printed here.

:)

I take it he looked for ways to overpay for Bush, spurning the tax cuts he so vociferously lauded.

It's not that they didn't want the government to have a military; it's that they thought Bush's policy in Iraq would not work, it would be a waste of money, and it would undermine U.S. national security interests. And, flatly, they didn't want to pay for it..

that analogy is wrong on so many levels..

You can move to a friendly country and make less 80k and you dont have to pay uncle Sam a single penny.

Please the IRS for more information.

I, for one, would not object should he choose the "write less frequently" option.

I agree with earlier comments that say "don't pay taxes." It's called civil disobedience. Of course he also has to accept the consequences of his actions.

Myself, I like Obama's policies, so I'm going to find ways to pay more taxes. I'll probably get my tax software to close up some things I'm legally entitled to. Just following Jonah's logic.... Don't we already try to pay as little as we legally can????

"Second, he can leave the country."

And still pay US taxes. The US being an exception in that it taxes citizens on their worldwide income.

How is this any different from the attitude Goldberg has had toward taxes all along?

If you live overseas 335 days per year you can exempt the first 80,000 from income taxes - but not payroll taxes. You can avoid those taxes if you are paid by an agency that doesn't withhold them - say a foreign corporation.
I think his best option is to join the French Foreign Legion. Or maybe one of those International groups that works on removing landmines.....

Goldberg, You don't want to enlist and serve your country and now you don't want to pay US taxes. Why not relocate to another country? And BTW, good riddance! You smug son of a bitch!

He can find a good accountant to prepare his taxes. Lots of people do it and save boatloads of money minimizing the taxes they have to pay. I'm surprised he hasn't heard about it.

Failing that he can just send it to me as a gift. I'll take care of it.

Jonah on paternity:

I just don't want to pay for it. It's not that I don't want my offspring to be comfortable in certain circumstances. It's not necessarily that I'm hostile to my seed or that (though I am in fact hostile to some).

Perhaps he can become an ubermensch and simply stop paying taxes. But as the poet cautions us:

"To live outside the law you must be honest."

It is not enough to go to another country, he would have to renounce US citizenship.

And the IRS will try to bill you for expatriation tax if they make the adjudication that you're renouncing citizenship to avoid taxes.

Can't Jonah's mommy find him a good CPA?

I'm thinking what he really wants to do is to stop doing anything that generates an income, then adopt a dozen special-needs kids and go on TANF, so that he can both stop paying into the system and start siphoning out money that would otherwise help other people.

I can live with Goldberg's attitude that he opposes Obama's programs because he doesn't think they will work, they're a waste of money, and will hurt the economy. He may be wrong, but at least he is doing what he thinks is in the best interests of the US (as well as in his own best interests). Compare to Kristol's innaugural column in the Washington Post, where he opposed Obama's programs because he was fearful that they would succeed and thereby destroy the Republican Party as we have come to know and loath it.

I can respect an honest difference of opinion in the best of liberal tradition, but I cannot abide out and out treason.

Nothing wrong with doing everything you legally can to minimize your tax liability. How many people want to throw the government a few extra hundred bucks *just because*?

Thing is, you can't show up at the border with all your belongings and expect immigration and customs to let you in. You actually have to have a reason for coming in!

The way I did it was: sell my San Diego house in 2005 for a ridiculously high price; give up my marketing job in high-tech; use the net proceeds from the house sale to buy a house and a sandwich shop in British Columbia for cash; go to the Canadian consulate in LA and get a work permit for my own business; structure the business purchase as a loan so that any money the business makes goes to paying back the loan and is not counted as income; reconcile myself to the fact that my family and I will live on a lot less money than we have in the past.

In any event, you don't pay US taxes on the first $80k you make outside the country. You do pay taxes to your country of residence if you actually show an income. And in Canada you really can't avoid paying GST on about everything you buy, but Jonah could just grow some bud and use it as a bartering medium, eh?

he can pull an L. Ron Hubbard and start a religion...

As far as earned income, making it somewhere else would actually cut out a lot of the US income (but not FICA) tax. First, theres the Foreign Earned Income exclusion, something like $80,000. If Jonah could make more than that without wingnut welfare, then his new country of residence would get first crack at taxes, and the US would allow a credit for tax paid.

>I hear New Zealand is a favorite of the tort-reform crowd.

Thanks, guys. What did we do to deserve Jonah?

I suspect Goldberg is compensated fairly well

The question is... WHY?

Is the doughy pantload really upset about the costs of these programs, or that Sir Allen Stanford is no available to help him?

Concerning the second post (Guilty Carnivore) stating that Jonah can become a hooker to avoid taxes. True, but it's very difficult to survive on $1.25 a week.

Libertarianism is just a fancy word for selfishness.

These people are totally ignorant of the concept of social capital, and oblivious of how much they depend on the achievements of others. What a sad and sterile existence to think you are only the sum of your own efforts.

As Obama is well aware, we are all connected and ultimately rise or fall together. There is no gated community, much less an island, in which one can escape the effects of global warming and the other problems Obama is addressing. We all have a stake in might in addressing global warming, energy issues and our appalling education system.

The IRS doesn't tax the first $80,000 you make overseas, although it must be reported. And some states do count overseas income for state purposes (such as California grr grr, which screwed me and made me owe money for 2005 and 2006).

"He can become a hooker."

Or in his case, a reverse-hooker, extorting payment from women in exchange for promising to never, ever touch them, or even show up within their sightlines.

Shame on you! From my days back in the fifties when I demonstrated against nuclear testing on the streets of Philadelphia to today, the weakest response to disagreement has always been "Love it, or leave it." It's a truly disgraceful response to someone you disagree with, no matter how deeply. Furthermore, I find the post and the subsequent responses to it to be beneath the dignity of this usually reliable blog.

I suspect Goldberg is compensated fairly well

I believe what you meant was "...Goldberg is compensated UNfairly well".

Don't you need an income to pay federal taxes? I don't think the IRS taxes the welfare payments he gets from mommy.

Dear Jonah--

I didn't want to pay for Iraq, because I knew it would be a disaster.

Yours forever,
Danton

And Ted? Shove your indignation. Frankly, dignity left the party about the same time that Antonin Scalia was writing his "single-use only" opinion in Bush v. Gore. If, as you claim, you've been protesting against the establishment since the 50's, you are well aware of the tactics which members of the Right are willing to bring to bear. There's a line in a movie somewhere about bringing a knife to a gun fight. And as the rightards are always happy to point out, their side has a lot of guns.

Public opinion is on our side. Morally, we are in the right. Now is the time to step on the conservative windpipe.

So, Johan Goldberg is a selfish little whiner. This is news?

Of course he does'nt want to pay for food stamps or Head Start programs.Goldberg and his ilk are a nasty bunch who hate lower income folks,especially single moms.Never mind they are the people working in the nsg homes,or cleaning the homes of spoiled asses like him.The legacy of Reagan's "welfare queens" lives on.

He can risk his very own life for the US military, and make sure to get deployed. Deployed servicemen and women do not pay any taxes on their income.

Jonah ruled out enlisting long ago, because, he explained, he has a child and obligations and all.

Unlike all those servicemen and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan right now.

He can commit suicide....that's another option.

Posted by: BobW on February 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

That was the very first thing I thought when I read the Doughy Pantload's little outburst. Unfortunately for all of us, I don't think he'll elect that option so that leaves Steve's suggestions: mercifully stop writing all his drivel or move his fat ass to some other country.

As a small business owner, so to speak, I am really hoping this "take my ball and go home", refuse to participate catches on. I'm in a Red state and it would be nice if most of the competition stayed home from work in protest.

I know Goldblurb is yakking about taxes, but there were those McCain commercials where the surly small business owner said he would not invest in his biz if Obama won. I said, please don't, don't advertise, don't come out of your office, please...

I'm glad to see Mr. Goldberg admits that he refuses to support our troops.

Or does he think that our country can just borrow the money for bullets and body armor from the Chinese?

For being such a scholar on the roots of fascism you think he might hear an echo in the current knee jerk reaction to "communism".

Don't worry, Jonah. The nice Chinese people will pay for everything for the next six months. By that time Obama will have put Social Security on a sound footing by appointing Bernie Madoff Commissioner. When young people express their worry to me about getting their share, I quell their worries by quoting JFK: "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Just paying the interest on the national debt is enough burden for you to bear. Don't worry about the rest of it. Just printing money makes it go away, and of course there are our children to do their duty. We are so deep in the hole the odds of actually paying for our spending is negligible.

Goldberg would have to give up his citizenship altogether and find some low-tax, small-government country. I hear New Zealand is a favorite of the tort-reform crowd.

Actually, if he wants to live his principles and move to a land with low to zero taxation, no gun control, no separation of church and state, no overzealous enforcement of civil liberties, and a a strong emphasis on family values, then Somalia, Afghanistan, and Iraq all come to mind.

RE: Jonah Goldberg

That closeted little miss's literary products aren't worth the energy expended in any effort to even read them, let alone comment on them afterward.

He could put a steeple up his ass and call himself a church.

Fixed

Jonah ruled out enlisting long ago, because, he explained, he has a child and obligations and all.

He was going to say "he had other priorities", but I guess that line had been taken already.

They say that 50% of all voters don't pay any income taxes. Looks like most of them post here. Here's a few ideas though. Buy tax expempt bonds; when tax rates go up, so does your return. Donate more to charity. It reduces your AGI and really pisses liberals off, they being so much less generous than conservatives. Put more money in deferred comp. Take more time off and do volunteer work (which conservatives do way more of than liberals)

Please, lets not burden New Zealand with the likes of Goldberg. He's done enough damage here.

Government isn't supposed to do nice things for 'deserving' people, it's supposed to do nice things for everybody, 'deserving' doesn't enter in to it.

You cannot find 'deserving' or anything like it in the Constitution.

Jonah could chug an entire gallon of Clorox.

I highly recommend it for him.

America really really needs him to do it.

UriahHeep,

Behind that "umble" facade, do you have any proof to back up those bullshit statements?

I thought not.

I guess you're just full of shit like all the other trolls.

As others have pointed out, he's issuing a lot of noise and steam about something he already does anyway: pay as few taxes as possible (like everyone else) while complaining incessantly about the ones he does pay (not like everyone else).

The guy's priorities are, of course, stoopid, but he's no different than someone I know who claims to choose to remain unemployed so as not to the Iraq war with taxes. Since the war has been almost exclusively off budget, this person is, of course, more effectively denying critical social, scientific and other positive programs -- programs this person demands that the government support -- of needed cash, but whatever. People have to live out their principles as they see fit, even if they don't think them through.

If that fat, cowardly, piece of shit moves out of the country, I would recommend Somalia. Great climate, little government regulation, no taxes, loosely run by religious conservatives.

Sounds like a National Review paradise!

Anytime I can help to educate a liberal... http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2008/20081222130915.aspx

Actually Goldberg could probably avoid paying taxes on all his labor income by moving over seas. Between the foreign earned income exclusion and the deduction for foreign taxes paid, you really have to earn a lot to pay US taxes of foreign earned income if you are a foreign resident.

I should point out that the form for the deduction for foreign taxes paid contains the paperwork reduction act calculation that it should take about 6 hours to fill out the form. Compare with the notice that it should take 10 minutes to fill out a 1040.

To UriahHeep:

I pay my taxes, all of them, including income tax. I don't whine about them like WingNuts do. You lost, bohoo for you.

You know what really pisses off liberals (like me)?

When stupid people vote for selfish, corrupt, and criminal people (like the Bush admin). We hate it because we know that people like Cheney & Bush will loot the treasury, flaunt the law (like torturing prisoners), and cause the general economy to collapse.

Thanks, shithead, people like you made it all possible.

I don't want to pay for it either (defined as big government - spread the wealth). Mostly, I don't want my hard earned dollars to go to scum such as the people who post on this blog.

And you can be angry all you like, but people like me will find a way to pay less - work less, whatever. It a principal with us.

To all you wingnut knuckledraggers whining about paying for "it:" I didn't want to pay for Bush's Iraq fiasco. I didn't want to pay for Vietnam. I don't like paying for a lot of things our govt does but that's one of the ground rules for being a citizen of a representative democracy. No one's forcing you to live here. If you really don't want to pay for it bad enough, risk going to jail or get your worthless asses out...permanently.

I agree with UriahHeep, he can donate as much as possible to charity. Liberals are control freaks, it's why they love big government and can't stand it when people do things their own way. He's also right that conservatives donate more, studies have proven that (yes even excluding church donations). Liberals hate this fact, as it undermines their self image of "compassion" and moral superiority. Watch the angry replies to these comments, as liberals demonstrate their "nuance" and how they "see things in shades of grey", and also how "tolerant and open minded" they are.

This is faint praise on liberals...

When you eliminate time and money given to churches, they are even with conservatives.

If you equate church giving with charity, you can be proud.
If you realize you're really donating to a favorite club it's weekly membership dues, maybe more humility is involved.

Mind you, I'm not buying it until I see the raw data. A conservative millionaire can afford to give 95% of his money to charity and survive. A liberal guy pulling minimal wage may be in debt despite giving nothing and living as frugally as possible.

I need more info before I sing conservatives' praises.

Mr Goldberg believes fervently in tripling down in the GOP's Iraq quagmire, but declines to serve because he has a child, wife, pet, mortgage, whatever.

Of course, a lot of the men and women serving in Iraq also have (or had) children, spouses, pets, and mortgages back home too, and thousands of them have come back missing arms, legs, eyes, or part of their brains, or not at all.Many vets are now jobless or even homeless to boot. Young fathers have died without ever seeing children born during their (serial) deployments.

Over the last eight years, Mr Goldberg has regularly and loudly called people who disagree with his right wing politics--generically classed as "liberals" all kinds of nasty names, in public and in print.

In a book that sold well (at least to zealots and bulk buying conservative organizations) he argues that famous liberals like Margaret Sanger (who first campaigned to make provision of birth control INFORMATION legal) were in fact Fascists, and from there generalized to the idea that most (maybe all) liberalism is in fact fascism.

(In this, Mr Goldberg seems as ignorant as he is offensive. He appears not to have understood Hannah Arendt's famous, acclaimed and magisterial 1960s study of how extreme fanaticism of both right and left can be transformed into totalitarian dictatorship. And she had first hand experience).

Mr Goldberg has had a good gig these last 8 years, getting paid by National Review's rich wingnut donors to accuse people who disagreed with the Bush Administration of treason or near-treason. (In fact, it pays so well that he can't tear himself away to put his body where his mouth is in Iraq).

And now that Obama has gotten in with a level of popular support that reminds people of JFK or Reagan (and leaves both Bushes in the dust), he has decided that not only doesn't he want to pay for the debts run up by his idols Saint Reagan, Bush pere, and W (which as of Sept, 2008 constituted 70% of the accumulated debt of the US since George Washington), but, further, he does not want to pay for the extreme measures that the lately, legally, and democratically elected government of the United States has, in its wisdom, decided are necessary to repair the damage wrought to our country's economy, spirit, and reputation by the policies of the GOP wrecking crew he has so energetically supported.

By all evidence, then, it appears that Mr Goldberg is quite simply a hypocritical, dishonorable, unpatriotic coward.

Hmm, if we apply his criteria, that makes him a liberal.

It a principal with us.

We has no dowt that finding ways no to work are a tenant of you philiposophy.

What conservatives mean by 'charity' is their crazy churchgroup which can then set about piously trying to undermine society, tax free.

Mr Goldberg believes fervently in tripling down in the GOP's Iraq quagmire, but declines to serve because he has a child, wife, pet, mortgage, whatever.

I believe the wife, unsurprisingly, left and took the mortgage with her. He tries pets but cannot seem to keep another creature alive. Really, no one would miss him if he decided to put his booty where his military fetishist mouth is.

Bush presided over the biggest government intrusions into private lives of American citizens in history and wingnuts will still complain about "big gov liberals" to their last breath (the sooner the better). It's essential to their entire superstition/myth filled ideology.

uriah, sometimes I actually envy stupid like the type you're pretending is yours. If ignorance were bliss, a-holes like that would be in a perpetual state of nirvana, and, as a result, not in the way.

Article at New Scientist,

Porn in the USA: Conservatives are biggest consumers,

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

Although a citizen can not state directly that his money is used for certain purposes, he can certainly assume that those monies are used for certain purposes. For example, Goldberg can assume that all of the money he pays in taxes goes to support our troops. Is he then going to say that he wants to find ways to not pay taxes in that case? It is just as likely that all of his money is going to defense and all of my money is going to social causes. If you just assume your money is being spent on the thinks that you like government to do, then there should be no question that you would want to pay your taxes.

alan says:
"What conservatives mean by 'charity' is their crazy churchgroup which can then set about piously trying to undermine society, tax free."

MrMicawber replies:
Studies show that even adjusted for church giving conservatives donate more, I guess you missed that point.

Besides, Big Government is the liberal's "crazy churchgroup" which you use to force your version of religion/morality on the rest of society. For example, liberal teachers and professors constantly prosyletize their students. They are allowed to preach their gospel in the school systems.

Well, since Goldberg's mother got him his job, why doesn't she just pay his taxes too.

The US only taxes its citizens abroad if their taxes there are lower than what they would be in the US (because you can deduct foreign taxes from your US taxes). If Jonah moves to a low-tax country, he'll still have to pay US for infrastructure projects, food stamps, and all those horrible things. If Jonah moves to, say Europe, he'll have to pay for Europe's even more horrible infrastructure investments and social safety net. What's a Doughy Pantload to do?

What was it that Jesus said about ostentatious "charity?" Something about the widow's "mite," wasn't it?

I didn't see too many insightful comments on this board? neil wilson, don't you realize that charitable contributions are being capped for the wealthy so there is no longer a tax incentive for generosity to certain causes.

Perhaps one of you can answer this question.

This tax increase is being sold as "fairness". How is it fair that the wealthy pay 42% of federal taxes and that almost 50% of people pay no taxes at all? And that the solution to the natures current ill is to tax the wealthy even more? I don't really understand this. I also believe that the size of the budget is so large that taxes will be increased for most wage earners - even those well below $250,000 in income. That's why the attitudes towards the wealthy are disturbing. Just about anyone with any income and savings can be defined as wealthy, when you consider how many people don't seem to have any income or savings.

uriah heep: anytime I can edumacate a conservative asswipe...
http://volokh.com/posts/1164012942.shtml
Your argument about conservatives being more generous than liberals is typical conservative bullshit--as is your contention that liberals don't want conservatives to give to charity.
I swear, all you conservative trolls know to do is misquote, misunderstand and obfuscate--oh yeah, and junior-high trash-talk.

Behind that "umble" facade, do you have any proof to back up those bullshit statements? -- bdop4, @18:13

Actually, I read something like that too; that there is a study, which shows that Republicans donate more money and time to charities than Democrats do. I remember being very suprised because it's not what I see at the Free Clinic. 3 out of 5 of our volunteers are Dems, while, among the entire paid staff, only one is a Dem, the rest being staunch Repubs. And I hear the situation is similar at the local food bank.

I've been thinking about that, and came to the conclusion that Repubs are, probably, more likely than Dems to volunteer and donate to church-sponsored activities (as long as it's *their* church) and less likely to do the same for secular and/or non-sectarian institutions. And there are a whole more churches -- all tax exempt and with charity status -- than there are non-sectarian charities.

@digitus

Neoconservatives LOVE Jesus.....except when it actually comes to adopting his philosophies. You know, like 1) Charity to the poor, 2) Do not judge your fellow man, 3) A camel has a better chance of getting through the eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven...Who said that?

These assholes invoke Jesus so much, yet Jesus would vote against EVERYTHING they stand for if he came back today.

Hey MrMicawber! You think our Saviour would bitch and moan about paying his taxes that gave poor people health care?

Ah, better rebuttal here:

http://biobrain.blogspot.com/2008/04/compassionate-hackery.html

"And while both religious groups gave more than non-religious liberals, all three groups gave more than non-religious conservatives; who were apparently the most stingy. And that completely undermines the entire right v. left tilt of the book, because if this was a right-left thing, then non-religious conservatives should give more than religious liberals"

"much of underlying data came from surveys, which can be notoriously unreliable. This involved people telling pollsters how much they donated, to what charities, "

"he found that in almost every case, states that voted for Bush gave more than states that didn't. You can see maps of this at the bottom of this page. But what he forgot to mention was that he didn't adjust for cost of living. This was based upon total income, not discretionary income. And when adjusted for cost of living, it turns out that eight of the top ten states were blue states; not red states"

"when religious giving is excluded, religious people only gave $88 more on average than non-religious people."

"the point of the book is to show that the bleeding heart liberals don't really do as much to help needy people as conservatives, yet...he includes any charity. And that includes universities, museums, hospitals, civic groups, public radio, or anything else the IRS considers charitable... this book doesn't differentiate between how much of this charity actually addresses the issues that liberals are passionate about, but instead considers a conservative who gives a $10,000 donation to Oral Roberts University to be more compassionate than a liberal giving $1,000 to Habitat for the Humanities."

In the comments section at same page:

"Fully 40% of every dollar received went to utilities. That doesn't count staff, mortgage, or internal funds. When all is said and done, not a lot is left over for real ministry - feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, all that jazz."

More info received, doubt vindicated.

Kiss my tuchus, lying sacks of...

OMG! Taxes cutting into Jonah's discretionary spending!

SWEET JESUS!!! UNLOAD YOUR CHEETO'S STOCKS!!!!!! And if NAMBLA sells shares, I'd onload those, too.

Micawber,

You can only say that if you think of every single thing as an expression of religion or religious interest from infrastructure repair to a rock doing what comes naturally, sitting there, the ideal social conservative.

I hear New Zealand is a favorite of the tort-reform crowd.

Steve, are you in a position to initiate hostilities with New Zealand like that? I thought only Congress or Cheney had that power?

Besides, Big Government is the liberal's "crazy churchgroup" which you use to force your version of religion/morality on the rest of society.

It never fails to amaze me how so many conservatives are unable to grasp concepts outside their sharply proscribed world view, and project their own weaknesses and banalities by creating cartoon counterparts that coincidentally fit perfectly into that world view. Mr. Micawber, unable to take in the gobsmacking idea that religion or the notion of a higher power is not shared by everyone and that a firm moral center is not reliant on such beliefs, tries to resuscitate this hoary failed analogy. And fails epically.

Maybe Goldberg can get a high paying job with the International Monetary Fund, like Tim Geithner, and avoid paying any taxes at all. Or maybe he can get a job as a super-deluxe Washington lobbyist, and get various freebees withoug paying taxes on them, like Tom Daschle.

Since I don't see anyone here who has a problem with tax evasion when it is engaged in by liberals, obviously all Goldberg need do is claim he's converted to liberalism, and voila! Free pass on all tax evasion, not to mention other actions (sexual molestation of pages, sexual harassment of interns, for example, leaving women dying in submerged cars, etc., etc., etc.).

I love it when liberals moralize. It reminds me of a Jimmy Swaggart sermon...

How is it fair that the wealthy pay 42% of federal taxes and that almost 50% of people pay no taxes at all?

50% of people pay no taxes at all? Even Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, gasoline, or sales taxes? So 50% of the people in this country have no job, no car and never buy anything? Well, no wonder we're in a recession!

digitusmedius says:
What was it that Jesus said about ostentatious "charity?" Something about the widow's "mite," wasn't it?

MrMicawber replies:
Since I commented about charity I assume this was directed at me. I wouldn't know the answer to this question as I haven't attended church in over a decade, all of my donations go to secular charities. Yet another example of the liberal open mind, they never stereotype, uh-uh, never, except for: conservative == Christian churchgoer == evil.

But I have nothing against churches, or people donating to them. You see, the Baptists or the Episcoplians have a pretty short reach.

But the liberal church, a.k.a. Big Government, has a very long reach indeed.

He can't escape the taxes by moving, but he can escape them going to the US. I moved to Canada after Bush got re-elected. Making up numbers (I don't remember the real numbers), the deal was basically this.

Canada wanted 25% of my income and the US wanted 20%. I could either pay Canada all 25% and give the US none, or I could give the US 20% and Canada the other 5%. In essence, I had to pay the higher tax rate no matter what, but I could choose which country got it.

Plus, I entered Canada under a student Visa and earned my MA while I was there, so I got to write off tuition, school supplies, rent, sales tax, mass transit costs, etc. For a country known for supposedly high taxes, it seemed like an insanely high percentage of my costs were tax deductible and my overall tax burden was very small.

How things change. Liberals used to get all pissed-off if someone told them to Love or Leave America, but now it's okay to say it about conservatives.

Dissent, obviously, is only patriotic if a liberal is doing the dissenting.

@Anti dhimmi

Ah YES, more wingnut strawmen.. WHERE pray tell do you see anyne on here advocating Geithner's tax evasion? Where do you see anyone on here touting the liberal virtues of sexual harassment (though, if you had a F-ing clue, you'd get the irony of the "sexual molestation of a page" comment. Which party was that guy from you?)

Again, create more straw men and ascribe our evil liberal values to them....

I've seen a lot of puerile, idiotic, mindless stuff on the Internet over the years, but as I began to read the comment thread for this article, I was absolutely amazed. It is evident that this venue is inhabited by complete imbeciles who wouldn't know proper argumentation if it bit them, who are so terrifically spiteful that they offer no rejoinder to his complaint beyond suggesting he either leave the country, become a prostitute, or - yep - commit suicide. It's as if all of the world's capacity for shitheardery were collapsed into a neutron dingleberry that is this single comment forum. Incredible.

MrMicawber (I hope there's irony in that choice of "handle?")

Jesus' point about giving charity applies to secularists giving only secular charity as well as it does to Christians. He knew that hypocrites come in all stripes. (Assuming he existed at all, but that's beside the point)

shorstop says:
Mr. Micawber, unable to take in the gobsmacking idea that religion or the notion of a higher power is not shared by everyone .....

MrMicawber replies:
Amazing! Regarding my comment that conservatives give more to charity, every liberal replying somehow mentions religion, Jesus, neocon, or my favorite, "crazy churchgroup".

Yet I don't attend church, all of my charitable donations go to secular groups. Talk about your stereotypical liberal stereotyping! I guess, like all cults, anyone who disagrees with the liberal holy gospel, must somehow belong to another cult, it is the only explanation to them.

I've seen a lot of puerile, idiotic, mindless stuff on the Internet over the years, but as I began to read the comment thread for this article, I was absolutely amazed. It is evident that this venue is inhabited by complete imbeciles who wouldn't know proper argumentation if it bit them, who are so terrifically spiteful that they offer no rejoinder to his complaint beyond suggesting he either leave the country, become a prostitute, or - yep - commit suicide. It's as if all of the world's capacity for shitheardery were collapsed into a neutron dingleberry that is this single comment forum. Incredible.
Posted by: Mark Marinelli on February 27, 2009 at 7:51 PM

Thank you for your "puerile, idiotic, mindless" (not to mention entertainingly projecting) tantrum. Now back to the daycare with you.

@Anti dhimmi

So, only you rightwingers are allowed to play the "love it leave it" game? I think we've had enough of this IOKIYAR shit. You've apparently drunk too much of your home brew kool aid over the years and you think liberals really don't hit back. Surprise!!!!

Bobby writes:
Ah YES, more wingnut strawmen.. WHERE pray tell do you see anyne on here advocating Geithner's tax evasion?

Did I say that? Please read more carefully.

Where do you see anyone on here touting the liberal virtues of sexual harassment

I've never seen anyone on this site express any problem with the sexual harassment of Lewinsky. Never.

(though, if you had a F-ing clue, you'd get the irony of the "sexual molestation of a page" comment. Which party was that guy from you?)

Thanks for proving my point. Obviously the activities of Mel Reynolds and his pages are not an issue for you.

I love it when liberals moralize. It's like a sermon from Jerimiah Wright...

Again, create more straw men and ascribe our evil liberal values to them....

Gosh, you forgot to respond to my "leave a dying woman in a car underwater" "strawman". Shall I remind you again?

digitusmedius says:

@Anti dhimmi

So, only you rightwingers are allowed to play the "love it leave it" game? I think we've had enough of this IOKIYAR shit. You've apparently drunk too much of your home brew kool aid over the years and you think liberals really don't hit back. Surprise!!!!

What on earth are you babbling about?

Once again, wingnuts show how well they can lie out of both sides of their mouths simultaneously. One one side they can rail about the horrible socialist FICA tax and on the other tell us that people who pay FICA "aren't paying any taxes at all." I really think you have to be homozygous (no,wingnuts, it doesn't mean "queer") for the dishonesty gene to be a resident of American Wingnuttiaville.

not to mention other actions (sexual molestation of pages, sexual harassment of interns, for example, leaving women dying in submerged cars, etc., etc., etc.).

Exactly! I wish I'd used these fresh examples!

dead weight mike says:
not to mention other actions (sexual molestation of pages, sexual harassment of interns, for example, leaving women dying in submerged cars, etc., etc., etc.).

Exactly! I wish I'd used these fresh examples!

With reasoning like that, you are qualified to be the Secretary of the Treasury, unless of course you've paid your taxes...

PS: There's no statute of limitations on murder.

digitusmedius says:
"He knew that hypocrites come in all stripes..."

MrMicawber replies:
These ad hominem attacks are really quite beneath you digitus. I mean, an outstanding liberal of your character should really be above it all. But then again, I guess one of the commandments of liberalism (how many are their now?) is "thou shalt smite Christians". So you continue to mention Jesus, assuming I belong to a church, which I don't. You, like your liberal brethren, are the true believers, the true cult.

Really, what a bunch of welfare state queens. You don't like conservatives, you don't think that everyone should pay a fair share for government, instead of a few paying for everyone else's share, and you whine...a whole lot.

What are ya gonna do...make us work overtime if we decide we'd rather not pay 70% of every additional dollar over a certain amount to the government to piss away? You libs are always saying high taxpaying citizens are greedy MF's who don't enjoy life. Ok, we'll just quit working and enjoy life.

My accountant and tax attorney tell me they are getting asked how to shelter what they can, and quit working to the extent they can, in 2-3 years.

We don't plan to be the milk cows for the welfare state. Have a nice life when you find out what happens when the people who make society work, quit.

digitusmedius says:
What was it that Jesus said about ostentatious "charity?"

He said "don't", in the very short version.

Something about the widow's "mite," wasn't it?

No.

But look here, you aren't really interested in any of that stuff save as a means to score debating/flaming points, isn't that so? Please do a search on the phrase "pearls before swine"...

Have a nice life when you find out what happens when the people who make society work, quit.

Today is truly the "white guys over forty pretending they're actually quite wealthy who'd rather die than pay slightly higher taxes" day on WaMo.

What makes you think you earn more than the lawyers, accountants, analysts, and business owners who post on this blog? And are you seriously threatening to take all your marbles and go home? THAT'S your threat, that you'll stop earning money?

Please do. In fact, we'd love to monitor your secession from the workaday world to punish us. So if you can provide us with your employment history and income (pay stubs) will do, maybe post them on a blog, we'll all follow along as you make good on your threat. Should be loads of (scary!) fun.

@digitusmedius: "Now back to the daycare with you."

The prosecution rests.

You were right the first time, Steve. He can move to another country - and pay taxes there instead of in the states.

Sure, we don't have agreements with all countries - he can't move to Malta, for instance, to take advantage of their low tax rate.

But he can move abroad - and as long as he's paying his taxes where he is - we can forget all about Jonah.

And wouldn't that be grand?

So, if you don't think I, and a lot of other doctors, lawyers, accountants, small and large business owners make enough money to make a difference, what do you care? I just think this is hilarious...like Obama, you may just succumb to the ancient curse "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it." More to the point, a bunch of you are all like Obama...like the dog who caught the car, and doesn't know what to do with it.

You completely miss the point, as usual. Nobody is leaving the country; they are simply going to reduce effort at earning more money once they reach the Obama wall of taxes. This sort of thing happened in Sweden in the 60s as senior doctors quit working once they had reached the 95% bracket, usually about October. They left for the Mediterranean and returned after New Years. Nobody could find a senior doctor between October 15 or so and the new year. Sweden eventually figured it out. Obama still has to learn everything again. Like socialism doesn't work.

At least it will be good for municipal bonds although I would avoid California if I were you. In fact, red state bonds are probably a better bet anyway.

If an American citizen is really offended by the decisions of the U.S. government, and his or her preferred candidates keep losing elections, he or she can withhold financial support by going to some other country, whose economic policies they find more appealing.

Other options are to work for the government, teach in public school and to go on welfare.

I agree that it's better to stay here, and work to get politicians elected who will change the tax structure, but lots of rich people will respond by hiding their capital so it can't be taxed. That will have the net effect of reducing investment in the U.S. economy.

Ayn Rand Foundation Says Sales Of Atlas Shrugged Surging

So, if you don't think I, and a lot of other doctors, lawyers, accountants, small and large business owners make enough money to make a difference, what do you care?

I don't care -- you're the one who posted the juvenile, unsupportable threat and the amusing assumption that people who post on this blog don't make money like "you" guys.

I was just pointing out how ridiculous your thought process was. Carry on.

Lots of high income people can forgo income in favor of leisure at the margin, and will once taxes get high enough. I could probably get a side gig and knock down a couple extra tens of thousands per year; it's not really worth it to me when ~50% of it will be taken away, in addition to losing my weekends. And that's under the current tax rates.

Also, the "chickenhawk" argument doesn't work so well for lefties now, seeing as how Obama hasn't spent a day in the military and is sending off American troops to die in Afghanistan.

"I just don't want to pay for it."

Got the new motto for the Greedy Old Plutocrats right there.

Or at least that portion that are not ReThugs simply because they hate gay people and abortions.

As to avoiding taxes, assuming he's freelance and not an employee, he could maximize his SEP-IRA, an HSA, and if incorporated, could pay himself quite a low wage. Then, as noted above, he could give half to charity.

The best way, however, would be for him to just stop working.

That would be win/win for all of us.

"... reconcile myself to the fact that my family and I will live on a lot less money than we have in the past."

red@cted: you and your family will also have to reconcile yourself to BC weather rather than San Diego weather. That's the part I couldn't handle, given that my lifestyle could hardly get any cheaper.

Cal Gal says:
As to avoiding taxes, assuming he's freelance and not an employee, he could maximize his SEP-IRA, an HSA, and if incorporated, could pay himself quite a low wage. Then, as noted above, he could give half to charity.

Or he could just emulate former NY Federal Reserve Bank head, former International Monetary Fund consultant, and current Secretary of the Treasury Tim Geithner...and just not pay income taxes. Of course, "That Would Be Wrong", because Goldberg isn't a liberal.

I love it when liberals moralize. It reminds me of a sermon by Jesse Jackson...

"Behind that "umble" facade, do you have any proof to back up those bullshit statements?

I thought not."

I think he might be thinking that "Republicans" give more to charity, but you have to realize that for tax purposes, and fundie crazy, homo hating, clinic bombing "church" -- including science-fiction based "religions" -- are considered "charities" for tax purposes. Fiscal conservative "republicans" however, not so charitable.

He could withhold the tax, go to jail, and then write an essay about it, like Henry David Thoreau ("On the Duty of Civil Disobedience"). But that takes cujones, and our little chicken-hawk Jonah is no Henry David Thoreau.

T-Rex says:

That's true. Heck, he's not even as brave as all those liberals who refused to pay their Iraq War Taxes, went to jail and wrote essays about it. Could you please refresh my memory and name all those brave souls?

Thanks, in advance.

"How is it fair that the wealthy pay 42% of federal taxes and that almost 50% of people pay no taxes at all?"

It's fair because they made all that money because of the safety provided by the United States government. Go live in Zimbabwe and see if you could keep your money.

And "fair" is a very value-laden word. Is it "fair" to be born into a ghetto family? Is it "fair" to be born with a developmental disability? Is it "fair" to be born just plain stupid?

From those who have been given much, much is required in return.

Even under a flat tax, the rich would pay "more" because they earn more.

Do you mean you want to pay the dollar amount a poor person makes? Then I hope you have a good security system, an armored car, a live-in teacher for your children, and a big source of water and generator for fire protection.

And, yes, that you don't care if terrorists fly planes into your house.

Better get an in-house doctor, too, cause you'll be in mortal danger every time you leave your house.

Oh yes, you'll also have to grow all your own food, butcher your cattle, etc., because there aren't going to be any roads to get to a store. And probably few stores either, since they're all going to get looted as soon as police are dissolved.

Sheesh. You Greedy Old Plutocrats are not just greedy, you're seriously stupid about what the public sphere provides TO you in return for the taxes you pay.

"I love it when liberals moralize. It reminds me of a Jimmy Swaggart sermon... "

I love it when conservatives whine. It reminds me of a Jimmy Swaggart crying jag.

"PS: There's no statute of limitations on murder. "

Tell that to Joe Scarborough.

Cal Gal says:
"I love it when liberals moralize. It reminds me of a Jimmy Swaggart sermon... "

I love it when conservatives whine. It reminds me of a Jimmy Swaggart crying jag.

Do you love it when people are laughing at you? I hope so...

Just sayin' If you're going to compare liberals to a conservative like Jimmy Swaggert, you've got to take the whole package.

Also and even says:
"PS: There's no statute of limitations on murder. "

Tell that to Joe Scarborough.

Why? Did he leave a dying woman underwater in a motor car, too?

Nope, in his office. And he didn't fess up like Teddy.

Congratulations Sarah B!

You win the Most Intolerant Liberal award!

This award is presented to you for being the first to use the term "fundie". Some others have come close with comments about "crazy church group" and such, but we could only accept "fundie", so you win!

Your brand new Obama poster will arrive by mail in a few days.

Now remember ... Hope, Change, We are the Change we have been waiting for... We are the world, we are the children, we are the ones who make a brighter day, so let's start giving... There's a choice we're making, we're saving our own lives, it's true we'll make a brighter day, just Obama and me...

Thank you! Will it be the Shepherd Fairey one? I LOVE that one.

I take it you think that a person three days dead can come back to life? Or that a virgin can give birth to a MALE child? (Where did the Y chromosome come from?)

Cal Gal says:
Just sayin' If you're going to compare liberals to a conservative like Jimmy Swaggert, you've got to take the whole package.

Why is that?

Americans living abroad have to file tax returns, but they are not necessarily taxed. The US has tax treaties with many other countries, and a person making a modest income who pays the income tax abroad is given an exemption up to a certain income level.

To put that more concretely: US citizens living in the UK pay UK income taxes. If their income is below a certain level ($75k when I was there, IIRC) then they do not have to pay US income taxes.

That was what I did after Bush was re-elected. Mind you, the re-election wasn't my sole motivation for living in London for a couple years, but it did play a role in my thinking.

As for Mr. Goldberg, since his only claim to fame is being the son of a woman who betrayed her friend, why should anybody care a whit about what he thinks about economic policy? Does he have any relevant education? Or is he just a glorified know-nothing? I'm guessing the latter.

And it's really not a guess.

Because.

I must say, your arguments are BRILLIANT.

BTW, anti, what do YOU have against Christians.

Sarah B,

No, I personally haven't attended a church in over a decade. But why the animosity towards fundies? You have alot in common, you are both very religious and have alot of faith, just in different gods. I guess you can't stand the worship of false idols...yours is the only true religion. But have faith, your blasphemy laws... errr fairness doctrine... will soon be in place.

Cal Gal says:
Nope, in his office. And he didn't fess up like Teddy.

When did Edward Kennnedy confess to deliberately leaving a woman to die in a submerged car?

Cal Gal said:
Because.

Oh. Thanks for sharing that. It's really very novel...

I must say, your arguments are BRILLIANT

Yes, they are. Why? "Because"...

Trex, non sequiter.
Bye. I think I will go listen to a podcast of Rush Limbaugh now and figure out how to make as much money as I can for the next two years before I drop off the radar screen...good luck with this socialism thing.
And see ya in Costa Rica...plan to start up a medical clinic for rich American expatriates when Obamacare arrives. You know, like for Senators, Congressmen, etc...liberal elistists who won't want to stand in line for the "free" health care.

Cal Gal asks:

TW, anti, what do YOU have against Christians.

Why do you ask?

Several commenters have made the standard supply-side point that if taxes are too high, then skilled, hard-working people who really make the economy go will work less, and then the economy will shrink.

They implicitly equate high pay with large contribution to the overall output of the economy. I guess they missed the events of the last year. There are a whole lot of bankers who get paid scads of money, and we'd really all be a lot better off if they'd simply not done a whit of work for, oh, about the last decade.

Of course, getting paid a lot doesn't mean you AREN'T doing something useful, but it also doesn't mean you ARE.

That's what dhimmi's are.

Sorry, that should have been plural rather than possessive.

"Cal Gal said:
Because.

Oh. Thanks for sharing that. It's really very novel..."

Thanks. I see it didn't take long for you to use it.

So, Mr. Dhimmi, do you think a President who tells lies to the nation to start a war that results in the deaths of several hundred thousand people should be held accountable in a criminal court?

Vincent Bugliosi (you know, the guy who tried Manson), thinks Bush and Cheney could be tried on murder charges.

OTOH, Ted Kennedy got drunk and was in a car accident nearly forty years ago. Let's obsess about that some more!

I suppose Hillary Clinton shot Vince Foster, too? And Bill Clinton shot down Ron Brown's plane?

And hell, I bet LBJ was the shooter in the Texas Book Depository in 1963!

Murder is a fairly serious accusation to make. Please stop wasting our time. If you had actual evidence, I mean something other than what you think is an utterly reliable "gut feeling", I'm sure you could get somebody in Massachusetts interested. Try Mitt Romney - I'm sure he knows people!

Cal Gal says:
That's what dhimmi's are.

Ah, you do love it when people laugh at you...

"Of course, getting paid a lot doesn't mean you AREN'T doing something useful, but it also doesn't mean you ARE."

Yeah, I could certainly name a number of pitchers the Giants have had recently that prove your point.

Look it up.

What do YOU think dhimmis are?

Whispers says:
Ted Kennedy got drunk and was in a car accident nearly forty years ago. Let's obsess about that some more!

He's gotten a free pass for how many years? Thanks for making my point for me.

Suppose that Bush, either one, had nominated a tax cheat for SecTreas. You'd have ranted and raved, long and loud. Yet I see that you have no objection to Geithner's tax evasion at all.

Clearly, all Goldberg need do is "convert" to being a liberal, then he can just quit paying his taxes altogether. Just like Geithner and Daschle.

I love it when liberals moralize. It's like a sermon about arson from Al Sharpton...

[as you have nothing substantive to add you are done trolling for the day -- mod.]

I love it when conservatives analogize.

It's like the stink from a garbage dump.

Damn, moderator. I was really having fun feeding the troll!

Guess I better reform my feeding habits.

Sorry.

I will look for every means within the boundaries of the law to minimize what I pay in taxes...

What a tool. So before 2009, he was purposefully paying MORE taxes than he needed to simply because he was a big fan of the President?

Jane: "And you can be angry all you like, but people like me will find a way to pay less - work less, whatever. It a principal with us."

And the seven-fold increase in the national debt our country has incurred since Ronald Reagan first took office in Jan. 1981 -- was that also a principle with you clowns, too?

When Jimmy Carter left office, the the national debt was $1,028,729,000,000 -- or $4,483 per person.

Under Ronald Reagan, the national debt had increased to $2,857,430,960,187 by time he left office in 1989. That's $11,117 per person.

(Oh, and before you blame Democrats, Jane, you best realize that congressional Democrats during the 1980s had annually trimmed close to 20% off Reagan's budgets after he initially submitted them to Congress each January. I know such facts are terribly inconvenient to your principles, but still ...

Under George H.W. Bush, the national debt increased to $4,411,488,883,139 -- or roughly $17,113 per person.

Bill Clinton had actually eliminated deficit spending by the end of his first term and was producing surpluses by the time he left office in Jan. 2001, but because he had inherited enormous annual deficits from his two predecessors, the national debt by the end of his second term had still increased to $5,807,463,412,200 -- or $20,392 per person.

As of 2006, the sixth year of Dubya's term, the national debt was clocked at a whopping $8,348,224,303,886 -- or $28,229 per person.

As of January 2009, when Dubya finally split the scene, the national debt stood at $10,894,028,210.

So all told, in eight years your precious GOP effectively doubled the national debt they inherited from Bill Clinton -- and that's not counting the costs of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which were deliberately kept off the books to mislead people about the true size of the red ink Dubya and his Republican cronies ran up.

That said, I really don't want to hear another word about your fuckin' so-called "principles", lady.

So, why don't you and the rest of your Republican bimbo friends and fuckturds just STFU, and let the adults figure out how to get out of this royal fuckin' mess you assholes created with your precious "principles"?

In the meantime, go take your Mother Superior act someplace else, Jane. Most of us are no longer in the mood to indulge such juvenile, irresponsible, and anti-American rants as yours, and we'll have absolutely no problem telling ignorant, selfish people like you where to get off.

Aloha, you bimbo.

Donald, that one is going into my Book of Great Rants.

Yeah, trex, a great rant it was.

For a minute there I thought it was you.

Donald, you are absolutely right. You just forgot to mention that Obama and the Democrats will add a projected 2 Trillion plus to that figure in 2009 alone. Face it, we're screwed no matter who is leading the government.

Donald, way to give 'em hell. Pisses me off every time I hear one of those ahoes complaining about deficits. Glad to see you posting.

Oh, and Fedup, you must be repub troll, hard to miss the tell tale false equivalency. Can't you guys ever discuss any issue honestly?

Would it be wrong to wish Goldberg to be raped to death by trained animals?

I know it sounds harsh, but in light of his past misdeeds, it's entirely fair.

Donald, that one is going into my Book of Great Rants.

It was good, but you might want to take the standard sexist insult (Donald just can't ever seem to help himself) off the end before you file it.

Also, the "chickenhawk" argument doesn't work so well for lefties now, seeing as how Obama hasn't spent a day in the military and is sending off American troops to die in Afghanistan.

Right, because a 47-year-old man would have had how many opportunities to dodge the draft like Bush did?

God, Steve, where did all these idjits come from? Did you get a link from AOL or something?

Aloha, you bimbo.

Sexist? I don't think so. Here's why: in Hawaii, aloha can mean either Hello or Goodbye.

I tend to think Donald meant to welcome Jane to the reality-based world. Whether she stays or not is beyond anyone's control.

Cute avoidance, HM. You're up mighty early. Insomnia?

This thread is comedy PLATINUM!!!!

I might believe Goldberg had some integrity if:

1. I didn't think he has ALWAYS paid accountants a LOT of money to make sure he paid as little tax as possible. Even when the policies he supported were carried out.

2. He didn't decline to fight in the very war he did everything he could to start.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Goldberg can't seem to understand that all of us in this country have things in the budget we don't like but we all understand our responsibility toward our country and we pay our fair share of taxes. My brother thought the war was a bad idea but went there a fought it because it was his duty.

Mr. Goldberg has no integrity. He doesn't want to do anything concrete for his beliefs except sit in front of a keyboard and seems to have little or no logical thinking, compassion or bravery.

In other words, he is a typical rich, Winger, neocon "intellectual."

Right, because a 47-year-old man would have had how many opportunities to dodge the draft like Bush did?

Look, Obama could have gone to Vietnam in 1979, when he turned 18. He just chose not to....

And don't even get me started on him sitting out the Grenada War as an able-bodied 22 year old, or the Panama War as a 28 year old! Where was he when his country was calling???

Jonah also has the option to engage in civil disobedience, along the lines of war tax resistance, except in this case it'd be, uh, food stamp resistance, I guess. And I suppose he'd blow the uncollected tax on cheetos and hentai rather than charity or mutual aid to cover fellow tax resister's IRS audits. But then he'd be just like Thoreau.

My understanding is the the stimulus package only contains tax cuts, so Goldberg should only be worried about the coming expiration of tax breaks for well off Americans.

There is a way for him to avoid the increases in the estate tax without breaking and tax laws if he takes action now.

To avoid income tax increases, I think he should follow the example of John Galt in Atlas Shrugged, and organize a strike of super productive people like himself. The goverment will relent when it sees how necessay he and his fellow strikers are the economy.

Sorry, I forgot:

Liberals:
d)Seeking to pass a blaspehemy law... err Fairness Doctrine.

Fundies:
d)Marginalized on the sidelines, one of the few groups you can openly make bigoted remarks against within the media. Powerless and incapable of restricting political speech of anyone.

Quick poll, which group is more fundamentalist,
the Liberals or the Fundies?

Liberals:
a)Have spawned numerous terrorist organizations, from the old school Weather Underground, to the new school "eco" terrorists and "animal liberation" terrorists. Eco terrorists currently the number one domestic terrorism threat as ranked by the FBI.
b)Constantly use their preachers in the schools, universities, and media to proselytize the non believers. Sorry for mentioning this tired cliche, it is so well documented I probably need not mention it.
c)Use the court system to circumvent the democratic process when unable to convince their fellow citizens of their latest religious beliefs.
d)Seeking to pass a blaspehemy law... err Fairness Doctrine.

Fundies:
a)Have spawned a few isolated instances of abortion clinic bombings.
b)Virtually zero influence in the schools, universities, and media.
c)Virtually zero influence in the courts.
d)Powerless to suppress political speech even if they were so inclined.

"To clarify a good point Atrios raised, when I said Jonah "can leave the country," I should have said, he can "become a citizen of some other country." It's not enough to just move, because Americans working outside the country are still taxed. Goldberg would have to give up his citizenship altogether and find some low-tax, small-government country. I hear New Zealand is a favorite of the tort-reform crowd."

Actually, if you work more than 330 days of a year in another country and make less than $80k, you're not required to pay income taxes. I've been doing it for the past five years. He doesn't need to take another citizenship, he just needs to make less than a certain amount of money in another country.

You inadvertently made the case against income taxes, which is thay they reduce incentives to work, therefore making society poorer.

Jonah is right, everyone should strive to pay as little as possible within the boundaries of the law. This way more resources stay in the private (voluntary) sector, where they are more likely to be assigned efficiently, and away from the public (coercive) sector which is notoriously wasteful and assigns resources according to political instead of economical criteria.

Woah woah woah! I'm an American that has emigrated to New Zealand and has dual-citizenship and let me say. We don't want, we don't need and we can't feed Goldberg.

The comments here are just making his case. Why should he pay taxes to support programs that would benefit the posters here, who are full of hatred?

He has every right to reduce his tax burden if he likes, especially if it reaches coercive levels to fund programs he finds repulsive. As long as it is done legally, there is nothing anyone can say about it: we are not required to assume a higher tax bracket just so Obama can give a half-million dollars to the NEA to get new drinking fountains.

Congratulations, liberals. You sow hate, you reap disengagement.

Sorry TT, not a troll. Just a member of the reality based community, unlike you and so many of the other commenters here. I recognize the ability of many in the upper income brackets to find legal ways to shelter income and the probability that, as increased rates kick in during the 2011 tax year, they will do so.

Small business owners are a good example. Reorganize as C-Corps, becoming the shareholder, pay 25% corporate tax on profits while keeping individual income below the threshold and then plow after tax coporate money back in to the company in order to grow it. In the alternative, continue to pay taxes at the individual rates but plow 40% of income into SEP IRA's in order to avoid taxation on that money at that time and wait to pay taxes on it during retirement, when presumably their income will be lower, as will their tax bracket. There are a myriad of ways to shelter income and legally avoid taxes. These are the people with the means to find those loopholes.

As I said, given the spending plans, we are screwed.

Wow, you liberals really know how to show yourselves up as small minded idiots.

J Goldberg states that he disagrees with Obamas spending plans and wants to legally minimise his tax. In response you call him unpatriotic, that he should leave the USA, insult his Mother and spew out a host of random insults, all completely ignoring the point.

Incidentially, high taxes do result in lower tax takes. High earners do cut back on work and watch out for a brand new brain drain.

Obamas spending is going to retard the US economy. It will hit wealth creation, but i don't suppose that's really what you liberals care about, who cares about the economy when you've got a chance to hurt the people you're so envious of?