Who cares

Me.

I wonder whether the people who put the financial system at risk spared a thought for people like Lamin.

Are they really all that different from the Thai policemen?

Anyway, this is the libertarian ideal... That there be no restraints on the powerful praying on the weak, to focus exclusively on the dangers of governmental coercion and pretend that private coercion doesn't exist or is somehow morally different.

um, er... prey

Me, too. Thank you for taking a poll.

This summer I had some clothes made by a Burmese tailor while staying at a Thai hotel. I assume he is being affected by the slowdown, but maybe not.

I fell in love with SE Asia this summer. I wish they didn't have to pay for Western stupidity.

hilzoy: "I wonder whether the people who put the financial system at risk spared a thought for people like Lamin. Somehow, I suspect not."

Of course they don't. People like Lamin are less than human to the all powerful on Wall Street, the bush admin, etc. etc. For that matter, we in the middle and lower classes in America aren't much better in their eyes. The mucky-mucks don't care about labor. Workers are plentiful; when one goes down, another fills his/her place. Who needs worker safety? Who cares if the average guy has health care? Those things cost too much, cut into their profits, and cramp their lavish lifestyles.

I often wonder how these scrooges would survive if they actually had to do some real work, something positive and useful for the world and its inhabitants.

Thanks for posting this, hilzoy.

Who cares

Anyone who isn't a heartless, soulless piece of shit?

I could be mistaken but bjobotts does not generally come across as a "heartless, soulless piece of shit".

I suspect he was being ironic, or was channeling the idiots who got us all into this mess.

These are the people who worked 14 hours a day, SEVEN days a week for folks like Ralph Lauren and their buddies and whenever anyone would confront that crowd with the truth, they would bleat that they had no way of knowing.

They knew. They know. The garment industry in particular, operates on a global scale and it ALWAYS seeks the lowest common denominator.

You buy a Nike shoe...you are getting about 5-6 bucks of actual shoe and about 120 bucks of marketing hype.

One hopes there is justice after death.....

They care no more about Lamin sewing pants in Thailand than they do about Joe working the assembly line in Detroit.

Hi,
I am impressed by the work. The person did a great job.
Joe
Online Dating

I wonder if Thailand has free medical, free college, and other welfare programs if there would be any reverse migration.

This article would have more meaning if the Obama Administration did not have a policy of increasing government benefits that will keep illegal aliens in the U.S. As the Obama Administration pursues a policy of welfare expansion while maintaining open borders means that reverse migration is unlikely in the United States.

"I wonder whether the people who put the financial system at risk spared a thought for people like Lamin."

The idea that people who don't give a damn about people who live within 10 miles of them would give any thought to impoverished peasents half way around the world is the most laughable thing I've read in a long time.

"This article would have more meaning if the Obama Administration did not have a policy of increasing government benefits that will keep illegal aliens in the U.S. As the Obama Administration pursues a policy of welfare expansion while maintaining open borders means that reverse migration is unlikely in the United States."

Yeah, because that's the underlying theme of what Hilzoy was trying to say. It's those God-damned illegals taking advantage of us poor US citizens that's the problem here. I mean, Christ on a bike, it's not like they're working and paying taxes or anything.

So, let me get this straight:

You're willing to give up access to "welfare" like an affordable college education for your kids and affordable healthcare, just so some dirty illegal doesn't get access to the same, even though they are paying income and payroll taxes, some of which they will never actually be able to collect SS/Medicare on ?

Sometimes I wonder how long we're going to have to suffer fools like yourself, and then I stop because it is too depressing.

Of course Lamin's personal story of duress and hardship is heartbreaking. How could anyone with a sense of compassion not feel badly for her?

However, her job, like hundreds of thousands of other such jobs in Southeast Asia and abroad are based on American textile jobs being outsourced. I think most of you should think of where our job priorities should lie, especially during this crushing recession.

And yes, I do agree that as bad as it is here in America, it is often worse in third world countries. Are you willing to give up your job for those less fortunate? Don't let your bleeding heart drown you. It's tough all over.

-A

I suspect this has also had a huge effect on Mexican immigrants, which weirdly should make Republicans happy. I say weirdly because even though it was always those bastards complaining loudest about them being here, guess who was paying them slave wages under the table encouraging them to make the trek in the first place? Maybe they can hire a few desperate Americans now to build the wall and shut the door completely. But then, who will clean their houses and nurse their babies?

OhNoNotAgain,

If the progressives in the U.S. want a welfare state, then one of the necessary conditions is that they will have to seal the borders, end chain migration, and end anchor babies. If not, the costs will go out of control very quickly

Also, illegal aliens know how to avoid taxes. They know to claim five or six children so that no income taxes are withheld. They know how to use their stolen identities to file income tax return to get the tax credits as refunds, and they since they are using stolen identifies, someone gets to collect the social security taxes.

Do the Democrats really want to claim that there solution to social security is flooding the U.S. will illegal aliens?

All thanks to Milton Friedman's twisted, but addictive vision. Should he go into history as one of the greatest villains of all time?

I wonder whether the people who put the financial system at risk spared a thought for people like Lamin.

Umm... what? People didn't spare a thought for people like Lamin when we were at the height of financial prosperity a few years back. The essence of this argument, and your post, is that the downturn in the U.S. economy is critically affecting our overseas sweatshops. Jesus Christ, the problem here started a lot earlier than when Lamin lost her job making Americans' clothes for ten cents an hour.

Expressing dismay over the economy causing strife for the people we've systematically enslaving for the last half century to make record profits is like Michael Jackson complaining that because of the economy he can only afford to rape one boy a month now. You're kind of missing the bigger crisis here.

Okay, but you know, let's not get too self-congratulatory about our ability to spare a thought being so much better developed than that of our trolls, the people who put the financial system at risk, etc. When times were better, I very much doubt any of us spent much time thinking about why goods are so plentiful and cheap in the U.S., and answers--don't patronize companies that exploit workers? Then what practical options do these workers have to support themselves?--aren't simple.

We are all part of this system. The difference between us and the people we're angry at is much more a matter of degree than of kind.

Actually, the WaPo story says, "...as the economy here suffers the worst of the recessions in Southeast Asia," rather than "...as the economy here suffers the worse recession in Southeast Asia."

"If the progressives in the U.S. want a welfare state"

Again, since when is affordable college and health care a "welfare state" ? Or are you now officially declaring anything the government does as "welfare" ? How about those agriculture subsidies that we hand out ? Do you refer to them as "welfare" ? Or the tax breaks that we hand to oil companies ? Or the fact that we look the other way when wealthy companies and individuals use off-shore tax havens to avoid paying taxes ?

"Also, illegal aliens know how to avoid taxes. They know to claim five or six children so that no income taxes are withheld. They know how to use their stolen identities to file income tax return to get the tax credits as refunds, and they since they are using stolen identifies, someone gets to collect the social security taxes."

If they're doing the above in a widespread fashion (and that's a big if, since I suspect that you're talking out of your ass), then they're doing it in plain view, and with complicity on the part of their employers.

"Do the Democrats really want to claim that there solution to social security is flooding the U.S. will illegal aliens?"

Dude, you're just making shit up now.

"I wonder whether the people who put the financial system at risk spared a thought for people like Lamin. Somehow, I suspect not."

Other people have already hit both sides of this--of course they didn't, but neither did the rest of us, etc. I just want to add that we should not expect them to think about anyone but profit. I'm not saying that as an attack, but as a reality of a capitalist system. The "thinking about things other than profit" part is for people--through government, perhaps regulation--to impose on business.

We can argue about how people should behave, but it's a waste of time until you accept how they will behave, and react accordingly.

Also, good point about US manufacturing jobs. They build the middle class, college education for more Americans than ever, etc. And now they're gone.

shortstop: "I very much doubt any of us spent much time thinking about why goods are so plentiful and cheap in the U.S."

Well, I do, shortstop. And I think plenty of others do, too, whenever we read labels about where items are made, or hear about plants closing, jobs gone and sent overseas. When we hear about the foreign sweatshops, children being forced to work countless hours instead of being in school. How to do anything about it is another story. It would be very difficult to live without buying any of this stuff that is necessary (clothes, shoes, just the basics, nothing designer). Even the materials that go into these things are made elsewhere.

"I wonder if Thailand has free medical, free college, and other welfare programs if there would be any reverse migration."

They do have such programs, but the Thai are racist to the core, so immigrants from Burma don't get such things. But that's not the issue. The Thai are ruthless about removing refugees from their country. Refugees are allowed to stay when their labor is needed, but no longer. And they don't treat their internally displaced people much better. Let's just say that human rights is a low priority for the Thai. Lamin's story is only a little bit unusual. Most Burmese women would have become prostitutes to stay in Thailand. But I'm guessing she's probably Karen rather than Burmese. She is more experienced at suffering, so she won't resort to prostitution. This may paint a very bleak picture of Thailand, but that's what makes it so scary. The Thai are not evil people. In fact, they are really wonderful people. And even they can commit such horrible acts.

To me, that's the real lesson. No matter how good people may be, anyone can fall quickly into appalling behavior. And nobody has ever come up with a religion or system of morals that can prevent us from falling into barbarism. If anyone ever came close, it was the Thai. And they obviously didn't come very close. When we ever face hardship like the Thai have, we will fall much lower. We tend to think of Hitler's Germany as an anomaly, but I'm not so sure. Can we really say we would be better if we faced a situation that bad? What we will do to the Mexicans when things get really tough?

So here's a scary thought: Lamin made a little over $3 per day as an illegal immigrant in Thailand. Half the population of India can only dream of ever making so much money. Mothers in Southeast Asia may sell their daughters into prostitution, but mothers in India will sell them for body parts. Ever wonder where that new kidney came from?