We don't need no stinking facts. They just get in the way of our talking points!

Haha!! pig manure!! That's funny!

How about if you called it a noxious mixture of gaseous ammonia & sulfur compounds? Kinda like a low-level Bhopal that spreads thru the air & leeches into the water. That's what we mean when we talk about ag pollution.

I view a lot of web sites to get perspectives on what is happening in the political world. There are a handful that I view on a daily basis and there are 3 that I have repeat visits to most days.

The Washington Monthly is the 1 site that I view multiple times a day & try to find time to read all of the posts & comments. Big time thanks to Steve & Hilzoy!

McCain's attacks on earmarks has an remarkable resemblance to Senator William Proxmire's (Wisconsin Sen. 1957-1989) attacks on what he deemed to be "waseful" spending. He routinely issued the "Golden Turkey" award to various research projects (e.g., Why do people fall in love). This was never accompanied by any analysis of why the proposed projects were deemed to be ridiculous but it played well with the press and the public. The New York Times notes that he was known as "a maveric".

What really stinks here is the stupidity of the MSM.

For every talking head vomit that is presented on the MSM, there should be a fact check by a third party explaining to the "audience" and the lemming pitching their "pig shit" just what the facts are. Good/Bad/Ugly. Item by item. Then let the GOP obstructionists comment. We have not become a country of stupid people. We have become a country of stupid leaders. Nauseating...

I brought this up the other day, but I think it got lost in the shuffle of a delayed comment.

I understand that the stimulus bill wasn't written to specify any particular HSR project, and that the bump to 8 billion was at the request of the White House-- Obama's Signature Issue. I KNOW that there is no line item for a HSR between Disneyland and Vegas. Here's my question: WHY THE HELL NOT?

I have, many times, driven the 15 freeway north from San Bernardino toward Vegas. It's a nightmare a LOT of the time. A 350 mile parking lot. HSR between Anaheim and Las Vegas could ease a great deal of congestion and reduce pollution.

But more than that, two of the top tourist destinations for both domestic and international travelers are Disneyland and Vegas. Do we believe that the economies of either state wouldn't benefit from an HSR line connecting these two attractions? Would visitors to one be more or less likely to make the other a part of their vacation plans if there was a rail like that could get them there in an hour?

We're missing the boat on this discussion. Yes, the rebumblican talking point is ridiculous. That's not the point. What we should be talking about is not that it isn't in the bill, but why it should be.

I can't stipulate to a lot of the health concerns suspected here, but I do know this: when an "intensive hog farming" operation went into business a couple of miles from my grandparents' farm in Iowa back in the late 80s, when the wind was blowing the right way, there was no escaping it. Residents in the area had to stop hanging laundry on the line; if the wind shifted while the stuff was hanging out, everything would have to be re-washed.

The irony here in the GOP picking this out as an example of "waste" is, of course, that they are the party who has trumpeted the rights of people (specifically, corporations) to do as they wish with their property, consequences to the neighbors be damned.

Wasn't 45 million allocated in '05 by Congress to study MAGLEV systems in Riverside and San Bernadino Counties? Was it ever funded and spent? HSR has been considered since the '60s. Is it because Reid might get the credit instead of Rep. Jerry Lewis (R) that this system is derided. However, perhaps not to Vegas, but, at least to Whiskey Pete's at Primmville. Gary Primm would be ever so pleased.

"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."
-- Barack Obama, 8/5/2008

All may change "When Republicans Fly"

I think we're framing this argument wrong. Yes, pig odor can cause health problems, but conservatives have never worried about people's health. Pig odor can also devalue a property. Now there's an issue that will get the attention of conservatives. A private citizen can actually lose money due to pig odor. Frame it that way, and the Republicans will want to triple the budget for this study.

There you go, and we thought the Know-Nothing party was long gone history!

why, its as if the Republicans don't like people.

we wouldn't really need a hog odor study if we just did away with CAFOs. but of course that isn't what the R's are suggesting as an alternative. So through deregulation and favoritism toward mega-business, the R's encourage creation of massive, polluting, inhumane, unhealthy, stinking corporate hog confinements. Then when we want to do something to try and mitigate the adverse consequences for the unfortunate humans who have to live nearby, they make fun of us for that, too.

class act these Repubs. If you make less that $5 mil (and can't afford to live on a southwestern ranch or a Wall Street condo), why should we care about you?

Republicans have only one job to do and nothing else, protect the interests of the wealthy in anyway no matter how. Lie when needed and prevent any bill benefiting the nation from passing.

They get all the help from journalists who never ask them to back up what they say and if they ask accept the meandering no answer from the politicians. But then the journalists don't do their homework, they are ignorant.

Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA)'s earmarks in the omnibus spending bill include $428,000 in two separate earmarks for the avowedly fundamentalist Vanguard University, for science and nursing education.

Vanguard is proud of their association with the Assemblies of God, a denomination that

believes strongly that God has declared great displeasure and opposition toward homosexual conduct.” Homosexual orientation is not genetically determined. Ministers and psychologists are successfully treating homosexuality with success. Members are encouraged to reach out to homosexuals in love, so that they may repent and receive forgiveness. Churches practicing a gay-friendly theology of compassion are lowering God’s holy standard to mankind’s preferences, and this is an abomination in God’s sight.

Sounds like the kind of place where they really could use some money for science education, but with the many pressing needs in the district, why is money being allocated to a fundamentalist college?

Vanguard's application includes a "Christian Experience Essay" and requests a Pastoral Reference

On a separate sheet of paper, answer the following questions completely in your own words. One page maximum per question.
Type-written essays required. Essays will be evaluated on content as well as form and style.
1. Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior? If so, describe how you came to know Christ and explain how your
relationship with Him impacts your daily life and morality.
2. Describe your present and past involvement in church and ministry activities.

Faith Confession from Vanguard's website.

As a Christian comprehensive university of liberal arts and professional studies, informed by its evangelical persuasion and Pentecostal heritage, VU affirms the following confession of faith. We believe:

* The Bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God.
* That there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
* In the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in his virgin birth, in his sinless life, in his miracles, in his vicarious and atoning death, in his bodily resurrection, in his ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in his personal, future return to this earth in power and glory to rule over the nations.
* That the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the precious blood of Christ.
* That regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential for personal salvation.
* That the redemptive work of Christ on the cross provides healing of the human body in answer to believing prayer.
* That the baptism in the Holy Spirit, according to Acts 2:4, is given to believers who ask for it.
* In the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a holy life.
* In the resurrection of both the saved and the lost, the one to everlasting life and the other to everlasting damnation.

Vanguard is currently having trouble with accreditation and finances.From the Register College Life Blog:

A decision about the accreditation status of Vanguard University has been postponed until June, to give the university time to put into effect some of the changes that accreditors had been requesting, the college said late Monday night.

Vanguard officials had asked the Western Association of Schools and Colleges to delay any decision on its future until its next quarterly meeting, so that the university can make some required changes in how it’s governed.

Top university officials with the Christian university, based in Costa Mesa, flew up to Alameda Feb 18 to meet with the full accrediting board, to ask for the extension, and to discuss what the university has to do to get back into its good graces.

The commission wants the university of 2,000 students to show it can operate with an independent board of trustees, and to demonstrate how it will get out of a severe financial jam that reports say was caused by previous mismanagement.

It’s possible the passing of Bruce Lindsay, a benefactor of Vanguard who died recently, will help the college improve its bottom line. Lindsay was an eccentric millionaire who ate every day at the Vanguard cafeteria, initially because it was cheap, and later because he befriended many people there.

Far worse than pig shit odor studies.

What's especially ironic about this is that if the government mandated that odors from pig farms be controlled, or that pig farmers be made to pay for their externalized costs, Republicans would claim that we need "more study" before determining that pig odors are really a problem.

I was surprised the hog odor study didn't get more attention. McCain's right, in a way, it's a total waste of money. There's plenty of existing research establishing the toxic quality of hog factories, and if there wasn't all you'd have to do is stand next to one and sniff. One of these manure generators can take out a whole county.

The study is there because it was insisted on by the Ag right as a delaying tactic to fixing the problem; if they don't get it, they can say sorry, can't do a thing, we need more research. So, propose a wasteful, useless study, then kill it as, ironically, "pork," then do nothing because the research supposedly wasn't done. I think I just heard Mobius cry out in agony over the twisted logic.

Unfortunately, both ericfree and Steve are closer to the truth than I wish.

There is already a sizable amount of research money spent on de-odorizing hog farms at land grant schools in the midwest. Almost exclusively, these research efforts focus on finding and scaling methods to metabolize the medium-chain fatty acids in the manure that cause the odor. However, reducing the vapor trail emanating from one of these shit ponds is like rebarreling nuclear waste... the main problem still exists but at least peoples sensibilities aren't assaulted.

And yes, the tired canard about "studying the problem" still substitutes for any type of substantive reform of pollution laws concerning concentrated animal feeding operations. Shit in your water? Fumes that'll curl your nose hairs and cause respiratory distress? Don't worry 'cause we're studying it!

The pig-odor problem is worse than you've described. In Iowa, family farms are rapidly disappearing, bought up by large agri-business conglomerates which proceed to use the worst, least-sustainable methods possible in order to produce food in vast quantities. Hog farms have seen this happen in spades - where the family farms disposed of their much smaller volumes of manure in eco-friendly ways, for example, by spreading it in place of chemical fertilizers, agri-business funnels it into noxious lakes of manure which are creating horrific odors and real health problems for the surrounding communities. This problem is not just about the odor of the manure; it's mixed up with foul business practices by an agri-business community which benefited mightily from the lack of regulation by the Bush administration.

Steve Benen wrote: "Yesterday, conservative Republicans, undeterred by their constant and embarrassing errors, went after a new example: a $1.79 million appropriation for 'swine odor and manure management research' in Iowa. How would anyone defend this?"

That's a good question.

How can anyone defend government support for corporate industrial animal agriculture, a.k.a. "Confined Animal Feeding Operations"?

At a time when we are borrowing huge amounts of money to make urgently needed investments in human health, crumbling infrastructure, and renewable energy development, who can justify millions of dollars in handouts to one of the most destructive, cruel and costly industries on the face of the Earth?

Industrial animal agriculture is an environmental disaster. It is a disaster for human health. It is a disaster for animal welfare.

I sure as hell don't want to support it with my tax dollars.

As far as I'm concerned, not only this particular line item, but all Federal support for industrial animal agriculture should be stripped from the budget.

This is just another destructive, exploitive industry that relies on government handouts -- e.g. taxpayer funded "research" and "training" through the Land Grant university system -- in order to enrich a few irresponsible, greedy corporate oligarchs while causing grave, costly harm to humans, other animals, and the biosphere in general.

What we need to do is to end all such handouts, and let these industries pay their own costs for training their workforce and "researching" more efficient ways to abuse animals and produce their toxic, unwholesome products which are responsible for epidemics of preventable disease.

And we need to impose extremely strict environmental, animal welfare, and health regulations on these industries and then let them pay the costs for meeting those regulations.

Steve Benen wrote: "Another far-right senator said it's not 'the responsibility of the federal government to control pig odor.'"

It's not the responsibility of the federal government to give taxpayer handouts to cruel, polluting industries so that they don't have to spend their own profits on reducing the harms that they cause to the rest of us.

Democrats just don't understand marketing - it's all in how you pitch it. For example, if they had suggested that pig odor should be studied for its potential weaponization, with a view to employing it as a Muslim-killer in the Greater War On Terror, not a single Republican would have dared to call it stupid, or pork. Some of them might have even offered to invest. Wise up, Democrats.

Steve Benen quoted Jon Chait: "They think the very idea of trying to learn about something before you take a position on it is a joke."

With all due respect, Steve, this is one case where you should have tried to learn something before taking a position on this measure.

The Republicans may have picked it out of the budget for bogus reasons -- because it "sounds funny" as you have said in earlier articles. But the fact that Republicans oppose it doesn't make it a good thing.

It's nothing but a handout of precious, much-needed taxpayer dollars to the corporate oligarchs of one of the most destructive and cruel industries in the country, an industry that harms the environment, harms human health, and subjects billions of animals to unspeakable torment and abuse every year.

Please don't fall prey to a habitual knee-jerk response that any spending the Republicans oppose must be good.

I thoroughly support McCain's effort to stop funding these studies. In fact, I think they deserve their own bill, in which we not only remove the funding for the studies, but obviate the need for them by outlawing giant agri-factory feed-lot operations, and requiring small-scale farming of hogs with inherently limited odor and water-contamination issues.

Why should I be paying for studying ways to make that hellacious method of agriculture more acceptable? Stop it entirely. Then we won't need to pay to sustain it.

Pink Stink Pork: Good point, missed target. The problem isn't money being spent on the study of the stink created by corporate pig farming, it's corporate pig farming. You don't need a $2mil. to know that to eliminate the stink only requires the elimination of the source. It would be my opinion, that the nincom/poops have a point here, it's just they don't understand what it is.

You gotta love it when John Kyl attacks other legislators earmarks out of one side of this mouth and defends his own out of the other.

Around our house, we have a catchphrase for this Republican thinking (which we hear often at our local watering hole).

"Senator, what about the millions of earmarks YOU put in the budget?" Kyl, "That's different."

Pig manure = waste. Get it? ha ha ha

The media desire for easy to understand stories provides a perverse incentive to avoid looking into anything any further than is necessary to support outrage.

Republicans have been feeding this perversion quite well lately. They don't even have to find actual waste, fraud or abuse, they just have to alleged that it is there, if anyone cares to look. Of course, nobody usually is willing to look any further, or it takes a few day to finally get around to it. By then, the republicans are off on another hyped-up crusade.

Since we can't expect anything but nonsense out of this crowd (republicans and the mindless media), we might as well hope that Rahm can dream up another Rush-bo controversy. It is really simple: question of the day for republicans. The media love being fed good questions to ask anyone. And they have a stupid habit of continuing to use it the harder it is to answer while sounding sane.

Matthews exposed a contradiction yesterday (although he didn't recognize it). Pat B. had gone on and on with the meme of the day: that the stock market is tanking because of Obama. After a few minutes of that, Matthews asked a simple question: when does Obama assume responsibility for the economy? Is he responsible now?

Pat B. said: not yet!

BTW, did anyone notice that with the revised unemployment figures (new claims) released yesterday, February was slightly improved over December and January.

One study of people living near large hog farms in North Carolina, for instance, concluded "persons exposed to odors from intensive hog operations experienced 'more tension, more depression, more anger, more fatigue and more confusion' than a group of unexposed persons."

It's no wonder Republicans are against research on hog stink...seems to contribute to people voting Republican.

MMMmmm, it's been quite a week for pork-- roasted Rush butt and barbequed Rove chops-- you just can't appreciate pork without putting up with the hog manure. Perhaps the aroma of hog manure should be pumped into Republican Senate offices over the next few days. Then we could see if John McCain changes his "tweet" about the porkiness of hog odor elimination. McCain's fellow Republicans are responsible for the top 3 poriest projects and 6 out of the top 10 most expensive earmarks in the omnibus bill. With all his thumping, grumping and twittering, McCain somehow fails to mention that earmarks for Arizona are included in the bill. It's all political theater.

Perhaps a condition that causes "more tension, more depression, more anger, more fatigue and more confusion" is the only hope for the republicans.

"One far-right senator said the money is trying to "take the stink out of manure.""

Too bad it won't take the stink out of the Republican party

Have they at least shut up about the pork that doesn't even exist, like the high-speed rail from Disneyland to Las Vegas or the whorehouse or Area 51 whatever it was supposed to be?

STUPID republicans and MORONIC right wingers honestly belief:

it's not the responsibility of the federal government to control....

1) FDA and USDA which resulted in people dying from Peanut Products, and eating contaminated lettuce, tomatoes as well as 'downer cows' used in hamburgers and pizza for school lunches.

2) SEC which resulted in no oversight of the Financial industry... How did that work out?

3) FCC which has resulted further monopolizing on the few media outlets remaining. Rupert Murdoch anybody? Rush Limbaugh and Clear Channel?

4)Department of the interior, which resulted in auctioning off drilling rights in the vicinity of National Parks.

5) EPA which resulted in lowering air quality standards, refusing to regulate CO2 levels, refusing to implement better mileage standards.

The list is much longer, but you get the drift...unless you're still drinking the Kool-Aid of course

(A little late to the party on this one, but...)

Something occurred to me yesterday re: the "Disney Train".

The first version was that there was an earmark in the stimulus bill for a high-speed train from Disneyland to Las Vegas. Then it became an earmark in the budget bill for a high-speed train from Disneyland to the Bunny Ranch.

Note that the first one was an earmark in the stimulus bill. And the second was an earmark in the budget bill.

Excuse me, but if there was an earmark in the stimulus, why the hell would you also need an earmark in the budget bill?!? Money earmarked is money earmarked. You wouldn't put an earmark in both; there'd be no point to that, no need to do that.

So which is it, Fox News? Were you wrong with your 'earmark in the stimulus' story, or are you wrong about the 'earmark in the budget bill' story. One or the other HAS TO BE wrong.

(Of course, they could both be wrong...)

Hey, I got an idea! Let's put some pig farms in Kennebunkport and some in Crawford. Lets see just how close to the land those bushes really are!

I'd also stress another important aspect of pig stink research. Along with the vile smell, industrial pork operations release massive quantities of methane contributing to global warming.

Capturing the smell would be a side benefit of capturing the methane, which is, you know, valuable. A requirement that pig manure lagoons be replaced by closed pig manure tanks and that the methane be captured and used, would be a useful step against global warming. Reduced suffering for unfortunate neighbors would be a beneficial side effect.

An accurate estimate of the costs and benefits of a possibly reasonable regulation is valuable. This is not pure science (ok not a likely miss conception I admit).

I'd guess Republicans object only partly because the program sounds funny. I guess another part of it is that they don't like any investigation of any kind of pollution or, indeed, any possible advantage of any regulation.

Finally, of course, extensive discussion of "$1.79 million" is on its face crazy. That is less than one 200 thousandth of the cost of the bill.

I'd also stress another important aspect of pig stink research. Along with the vile smell, industrial pork operations release massive quantities of methane contributing to global warming.

Capturing the smell would be a side benefit of capturing the methane, which is, you know, valuable. A requirement that pig manure lagoons be replaced by closed pig manure tanks and that the methane be captured and used, would be a useful step against global warming. Reduced suffering for unfortunate neighbors would be a beneficial side effect.

An accurate estimate of the costs and benefits of a possibly reasonable regulation is valuable. This is not pure science (ok not a likely miss conception I admit).

I'd guess Republicans object only partly because the program sounds funny. I guess another part of it is that they don't like any investigation of any kind of pollution or, indeed, any possible advantage of any regulation.

Finally, of course, extensive discussion of "$1.79 million" is on its face crazy. That is less than one 200 thousandth of the cost of the bill.

I've had three so called "rural subdivisions" spring up next to my Illinois farm miles from town. I couldn't get into the hog business if I wanted, the state won't let me.

I'll save the government a few bucks and share my solution for free. If you live near a smelly hog farm, MOVE. There, that was easy. Now, if the Appropriations Committee could please send me a check - I'll settle for 10% of the budgeted cost of the study - I'll move on to solving the banking crisis. After all, Tim Geithner doesn't seem to have a plan.

Will the pig odor study include the Republican Caucus Room in the Capitol?