I keep saying that the next major act of domestic terrorism is going to be home grown. Oklahoma is going to happen again.

I think it's fair to describe this kind of talk from elected leaders in positions of authority as irresponsible.

I think it might be more accurate to describe this kind of talk as typical from when coming from the GOP.

-Z

So, if a Republican said they were entering into a policy debate "armed" with the facts that would be objectionable? If they stated they were willing to use the full "arsenal" of methods at their disposal in defeating a bill does that merit derision? When did the use of martial metaphors in the world of politics become so, well, impolitic?

1994 was similar in tone as well. But this talk is sedition and the GOP has crossed the line. Again. They were supposedly keeping us "safe?" They are blaming Obama for their own economic meltdown, and predicting a collapse of the economy--again like fighting cancer causes death rather than the rampant tumors.

This is why they have always kept themselves well-armed. Scary people without conscience.

To his credit, I heard Hannity on the radio the other day describing the revolution he's advocating as a revolution at the ballot box. Good for him, but this instance was the exception.

Republican leaders and their media advocates are seeking to incite riots or worse, and I wonder what, if anything, we can do about it.

Advocating the overthrow of a legitimately elected government is treasonous and seditious. Let's see some prosecutions here.

Thomas Jefferson told us, having a revolution every now and then is a good thing.

Has anyone pointed out to Michelle that, you know, if a revolution should occur, she'd be on the wrong end of it? Per Jefferson: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

In this construction, Michelle is one of the "tyrants" i.e. the ruling class. She seeks to foment rebellion against herself.

In summation: not just crazy; stupid, too.

"Republican leaders and their media advocates are seeking to incite riots or worse, and I wonder what, if anything, we can do about it."

1) Impeach Obama
2) Impeach Biden
3) Impeach Pelosi
4) Impeach everyone else until John McCain becomes presidet

As a fallback position, you can let Obama be president, but let real americans (republicans) have veto power over all legislation and executive acts. Fortunately, with our allies Evan Bayh & Associates, we already have veto power in the senate.

Republican leaders and their media advocates are seeking to incite riots or worse, and I wonder what, if anything, we can do about it.

Posted by: CJ on March 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM
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I suppose we could label them enemy combatants, disabuse them of any notion they had Constitutional protections of any sort, followed shortly thereafter with rendition to a Syrian gulag. You know, the George Bush "Potential Opponent of the State" theory of dealing with dissent.

While not of the violent variety, there's another winger idea afoot: secession. Glenn Beck recently endorsed the pro-Southern, anti-Lincoln idea that our country is a mere confederation of states, and he hosted a New Hampshire legislator who is all giddy about endorsing the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions. See this short clip, esp. from about the 0:55 mark. Beck endorses the idea of secession at 2:57.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8b8VhAfiAc

Funny how these folks in favor of limited government were so silent for 8 consecutive years.

Republican leaders and their media advocates are seeking to incite riots or worse, and I wonder what, if anything, we can do about it.
Posted by: CJ on March 23, 2009 at 1:40 PM |
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For jone thing, Democratic leaders, pundits, bloggers and all who have a forum have to call them out on their tactics, at every step of the way. Publicly and constantly uncover their strategies so that if any of them come to fruition, the reasons/methods, and those responsible for the outcome will be abundantly clear. Then, hold them liable to the max extent.

I used to think that Slavery was the curse of America. Now I think it is modern conservatism.

The right sees democrats as the enemy. Not a rival political party, or a group of people that have philosophical differences. They are the enemy. it doesn't get any more straightforward than that.

United we stand, divided we fall.

But as I have mentioned before here, I find solace in the fact that the right is wrong on everything, always. So too will they be wrong about Obama's supposed failures.

Go Steve D! (@ steve duncan on March 23, 2009 at 1:47 PM)

steve duncan--

Most of us on the left can distinguish between literal and metaphorical expression. Can you? What about your friends on the right?

In addition, read about the 1994 slaughter in Rwanda and how mass media helped organize and initiate it, in part, with the use of metaphors (e.g. referring to Tutsis as "cockroaches" among other things).

Of course, Wikipedia should always be taken with a grain of salt, but just to give you an idea:

"According to recent commentators the news media played a crucial role in the genocide: local print and radio media fueled the killings, while the international media either ignored or seriously misconstrued events on the ground.[6] The print media in Rwanda is believed to have started hate speech against Tutsis which was later continued by radio stations. According to commentators anti-Tutsi hate speech 'became so systemic as to seem the norm.'"

So, take your ignorant sarcasm elsewhere. Nobody is buying what you're selling.

When did the use of martial metaphors in the world of politics become so, well, impolitic?

I don't think "armed," as you described, is bad. But I question "armed and dangerous."

Most of us on the left can distinguish between literal and metaphorical expression. Can you? What about your friends on the right?....Posted by: CJ on March 23, 2009 at 1:54 PM | PERMALINK
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CJ, Yea, you are on the left alright. Left out in the cold when common sense, authenticity and logical thought processes were handed out. Poser.

Let Steve D. and Charlie have their say. After all, it's just a bunch of floundering, whining, and complaining. Typical schoolyard behavior from bullies who finally got their noses broken.

Let's all repeat this together:
SUPPLY SIDE TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS, REPUBLICAN CONSERVATISM, IS A MASSIVE, OBJECTIFIED FAILURE.

I challenge the both of you to come up with at least 5 conservative acts that have benefited the majority of this country.

I'm waiting.

Bachmann and company are seriously mentally ill people and should be treated as such.

Sadly, the one thing that the Republican Party has done really well in the last 60 years is to legitimize this kind of paranoid claptrap to the point where many of us can't see it for the sickness it is.

Bachmann (and Beck and Malkin and . . .) are the 2009 embodiment of what FDR was referring to when he used the words "fear itself."

The good news is that, at least for now, a majority of the electorate aren't buying it. And of course, the bad news is that the "scare me some more" crowd have guns.

I certainly hope we're not reduced to granting personal liberties and tolerating certain speech by employing the observation "Look what happened when people in Rwanda were permitted such latitude!" If so Kenya serves as justifcation for U.S. citizens being denied possession of machetes. More than a few citizen's behavior in other countries would bar us from personally owning old automobile tires and cans of gasoline. Is every outburst of dissent, every call for action regardless the possibility of violence to be viewed in the most alarmist light possible? I thought it was Republicans that cornered the market on macho posturing and pugilistic rants when faced with a little push back from the opposition. Apparently Democrats can piss down their own legs with equal aplomb.

I forget, why did the GOP lose Congress, and then failed to win the White House?

And how will they be different the next time around?

Congresswoman Bachmann speaks of warfare with a naive casualness born of never truly experiencing the hell that war is. I suggest we make her dreams come true, and put her on the front lines in Afghanistan.

Perhaps she'll come back with more appropriate, less inciting metaphors. Honestly, at a certain point, we'll have to don our tinfoil hats and proclaim the right wing is intentionally using the language of violence in the hopes that someone will read between the waning lines.

Steve D. says: "Is every outburst of dissent, every call for action regardless the possibility of violence to be viewed in the most alarmist light possible?"

Yes Steve, after Oklahoma City, it is painfully obvious that certain factions of the right wing have become unhinged. It appears that the right wing militia movement of the 90's has taken over the republican party. Your heroes are Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, and of course Liddy, the guy who instructed his listeners on how to kill a federal agent... shoot them in the head I believe he said.

So yes, Steve, when we have a right wing nutjob who is actually in CONGRESS, speaks of the democrats as enemies, that bears some concern.

sd @2:13--

Thankfully, when it comes to free speech, no "granting personal liberties" is necessary. The First Amendment made sure of that.

Even so, we're not allowed to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, and we're not allowed to incite riots (e.g. In Connecticut, "A person is guilty of inciting to riot when he advocates, urges or organizes six or more persons to engage in tumultuous and violent conduct of a kind likely to cause public alarm."). There are limits.

And yes, Rwanda is a great example of the kind of damage that can result from mass marketed hate speech by politicians and others. Americans are not immune from such group think--as Limbaugh listeners have proven time and time again.

The almost indescribable inappropriateness of remarks from Bachmann and her ilk is exceeded only by their ability to sound consistently crazy and/or stupid at the same time. Normal people don't talk like this.

Is it my imagination or have these characteristics of so-called "conservatives" become more pronounced lately? Or have they always done this, but have become more shrill lately?

Bachmann is a dolt and a danger to our nation's democracy! I blame those who put her in office if she goes off the deep end and begins advocating anything more intense than the already indiscrete rhetoric she has been given to utter. -Kevo

p.s. The onus is on the local press to call her wild unsubstantiated screeds. If ideologues continue to get a pass from our media, our pathway forward will be littered with their obstruction, triggered to commit violence when a crazy decides to act on such political vitriol. -Kevo

Bachmann won her reelection by a narrow margin. You would think she would make efforts to reach out to those who rightly think she's batshit crazy. That doesn't seem to be the case, so she's either totally deaf or a hopeless captive of her extremist ideology. The woman either doesn't have a brain or has made a conscious decision to be a right-wing spear-chucker. And just how well does she serve her constituents if she's preaching revolution?

I don't think I would fit in well if I lived in her district.

PowerOfX:

Much like a wounded animal is most dangerous when backed into a corner, such is the right wing of today.

Their social, fiscal, and foreign relations philosophy has over the last 30+ years proved to be a colossal failure for the majority of Americans. The American electorate has soundly repudiated them in '06 and '08.

Now, their behavior is like that wounded animal I mentioned above; with full knowledge of their imminent demise, they are hell bent on bringing the whole house down with them.

Shouldn't the Secret Service be having a little chat with Ms. Bachmann? She is inciting violence and it's pretty clear against whom.

Many commenting here are strangely mute on a glaring paradox. Were the framers and founders as restrained in their words and actions against the British as those present demand of Bachmann we'd still be bowing before the Queen. When observing our current state of affairs defending the political structure and officeholders this nation has is strange indeed. The lack of riots is more curious (and possibly more troubling) than their occurence.

Steve D.: Are you comparing Bachmann to the founding fathers, and the current administration to the Royal Monarchy?

Your analogy is seriously flawed.

As for riots, time will tell. I've sharpened my pitchfork, have you? The question is who are you going after, the people trying to fix this mess, or those that created it?

Bachmann openly campaigned in 2006 of having a permit to carry a concealed handgun. Maybe someone should ask Bachmann if she's armed and dangerous.

sd @3:37--

The truth comes out. What were "martial metaphors" at 1:39 are literal at 3:37 (i.e. "The lack of riots is more curious...").

No riots are necessary. Sean Hannity had it right for once in his life. The American people have the power to fire every member of the House and a third of the Senate every other year (and change Presidents every four years).

Nobody's defending the power structure in this thread. We're defending peaceful transfers of power. We're defending free and fair elections. Where do you stand? Oh yeah--ACORN got Obama elected. Never mind.

The question is who are you going after, the people trying to fix this mess, or those that created it?

Posted by: citizen_pain on March 23, 2009
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You posit the question as if both the perpetrators and the fixers are clearly defined and agreed upon. Those that created this mess are a rather murky lot and some posing as Pinkerton may have originally blown the safe. Then of course there is the third class of scofflaws, those spouting off little bon mots of incivility that have so many here requiring a fainting couch. We're going to need a lot of pitch forks I guess.........

Damn, you Michelle Bachmann! Damn you!

Were the framers and founders as restrained in their words and actions against the British as those present demand of Bachmann we'd still be bowing before the Queen. -steve duncan

Extrapolating your silly analogy, do you know what the British would have done had they captured any of the founders? They knew they were committing treason and what the consequences would be.

Bachmann is just talking tough and playing a part. She has no concept of the weight of her words.

Worst. Comparison. Ever.

I suppose we could label them enemy combatants, disabuse them of any notion they had Constitutional protections of any sort, followed shortly thereafter with rendition to a Syrian gulag. You know, the George Bush "Potential Opponent of the State" theory of dealing with dissent.
************************************

I was supporting this notion (half-joking, of course) to apply to people like Bachmann, Rust Limpballs, Glenn Peck(er), et, al. Give them a bit of their own medicine, as it were. I thought Steve D. was doing the same. I somehow really missed the mark on that one. My apologies to CJ.

What this asylum seeking insane rep doesn't seem to get is "We the People" is the majority and her and hers are now the minority. So if she wants to fight for "We the People" then she must reject her minority party's opinion or tell it like it really is and that would be for her to attempt to change the mind of "WE the People", the majority of Americans who have rejected her ideas (or lack there of).

Maybe Bachmann should carry around a picture of Obama crowds in front of the arches in St.Louis to understand what a majority of "We the People" actually look like. To expect her to ever get reality is asking alot.

"...When did the use of martial metaphors in the world of politics become so, well, impolitic?
Posted by: steve duncan on March 23, 2009 at 1:39 PM

You forgot revolution every now and then.

It became dangerous with the introduction of hate radio and the cultivation by FOX and Rushbots of ignorant and racist behavior as seen in the McCain/Palin rallies which referred to Obama as a terrorist Muslim with shouts of "kill him" etc. These right wing goobers like Backmann are really trying to rouse brownshirt like activities with just enough nuance to suggest "Oh no that's not really what I meant". Was to. It's all they have.

Wow, a circular pitchfork squad. Never thought I'd see one of those...

I don't think sensible people help themselves by believing -- and stating -- that the Republicans as presently formed have anything as coherent as a philosophy. Not one that stands any scrutiny leastwise. And their ideology is built of straw also.

Which is why Bachmann is, as many of her ilk, simply a dangerous wingnut, a loose cannon hurling around the political deck with no sense of the idiotic and dangerous tripe falling from her lips.

Irresponsible is an understatement.

The "Dump Bachmann" blog, eh? I'm familiar with the author of that blog, who's a nutcase in their own right. It's a reminder that "the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend".

Personally, I think she is wasting ammunition on a wonky piece of legislation that very few people understand, much less care about.

It looks like she's trying to look good in order to score some election cash from energy lobbyists.

I'm happy to see Republicans act as if everything is a major crisis. When you throw too much fuel on a fire you smother it.