How be a loss would Texas leaving be be anyway. Their bought and paid for by big business court system is a national laughing stock. Their embrace of crony capitalism is second only to Mexico. They consistently elect politicians like Tom DeLay, Phil Gramm and Kay Hutchison. Who can possibly forget George W. Bush, Karl Rove and their pet attorney General Alberto Gonzales. All in all there isn't much love for America happening in Texas.

While the notion of seceding from the union is silly, you must admit that the nature of the act is different than that threatened by Alec Baldwin et. al. a few years ago.
In the former, people are saying that they and their fellow state residents want to live in a society that adheres to what they believe are founding principles. They prefer self government to being governed by the east coast establishment (DC in particular).
In the other, you have Hollywood elites saying that they would rather move 5,000 miles and an ocean away to live under the French notion of government and lifestyle.
Neither is reasonable, but there is a pretty big distinction.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The North lost the Civil War when the South surrendered. Let Texas go!

non-binding resolutions on the nullification of the U.S. Constitution.

In other words, pompous bloviation, disguised as legislation. Now that Republicans are out of power, they really are in their element.

And Texas becoming it's own country is bad why?

can we begin to build that big wall on the Louisiana and Oklahoma border now? create jobs for citizens and be done with a few more idiots.

"It's odd, then,..." - Not really, it is so rather to be expected. Republi/cons have long wallowed in inconsistency on just about everything, whether it's deficits, state's rights (like local medical marijuana), privacy, "flat tax rates" combined with calls to eliminate taxes on capital gains, foreign entanglement, supporting or attacking the President/Congress/government, etc. They hate the government when it bothers white militia types (Randy Weaver, David Koresh) but love to defend from liberal squishes, cops who beat black suspects. And so on ...

Consistency is the hobgoblin of liberal minds, not of conservative ones. (Or maybe the foolish kind of consistency is their hobgoblin.)

And people have the nerve to call tim robbins and susan Sarandon nutty. Of course to them Chuck Norris is a hero.

If a Democratic governor of any state made the same statements in the same context as Perry did, they would have already been compelled to resign.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it isn't going to happen, period. There is no way in hell that a movement to secede from the U.S.A. would actually get majority support from the people of the state of Texas (or any other state) unless things change a LOT.

More to the point though is that anyone that speaks publicly about the possibility of secession is NOT a patriot. So the next time anyone on the right accuses anyone on the left of being unpatriotic or "blaming America first" or any of that other garbage, they should be laughed at by every sane person in the country if they haven't also condemned Gov. Perry, Chuck Norris and the other loons that have speculated about secession.

At this point, I don't like calls for sedition prosecutions. Only a few crazy people are really taking this stuff seriously and sedition is too easy to interpret in an overly broad manner for me to be comfortable. However, if some of those few crazy people start committing acts of terrorism, I might change my mind and support prosecution of the elected officials and celebrities that egged them on.

Roger misses the point. Blowhards such as Baldwin express a knee-jerk reaction to leave the country if their favorite candidate does not win; failing to realize that if the result of the election is as calamitous as they say, they should stay, because their country needs them more than ever.

Imbeciles like Perry are far worse. They took oaths to support and defend the US Constituion as elected officials, and think that secession, treason, and rebellion aren't off the table? They must really, really hate having an African-American in the White House.

Roger, it is much more reasonable for individuals who can't stand what happens in the USA to move away, than for the disgruntled to want to take their whole State with them which also includes plenty who e.g. voted for Obama and wouldn't agree with being moved. What ever happened to your vaunted conservative "individualism"? Like I said, consistency ...

Roger, there's a flip side to your argument you neglect to see. Had Baldwin stood by his douchey comment and fled the good ol' US of A after election of 2004, the nation would still have been united. The WATBs in the GOP believe in the Constitution when they win elections. Now that they're potentially on the fast track to irrelevancy, they want to take the ball & go home. And since we all own the ball, they want to carve off their own piece of the ball. Ever try to play ball with an incomplete ball? Not as much fun.

So yeah it's apples and oranges. Threatening to leave the country because you don't believe in the principles of the rulling party is far less scumbaggy then threatening to tear it asunder because your hate filled xenophobic worldview doesn't jibe with the people who think the new boss ain't the same as the old boss. Pussies. All of 'em.

I've got a very conservative friend from El Passo. I asked him what was up with this - is Perry just posturing because he wants to be able to paint Kay Bailey Hutchinson as one of those interfering Washington types.

He said this is an example of what, in Texas politics, is technically known as "talkin' shit".

Exactly.

These people are coming across more and more like a bunch of toddlers who have been denied a favorite toy. I shudder to think what their reaction would have been had a Democratic governor started talking about secession during the Bush years.

This can be their farewell letter:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/80714812.html

Dear Red States...

We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and
we're taking the other Blue States with us.

In case you aren't aware, that includes Hawaii, Oregon,Washington,
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We
believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially
to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.
We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get Elliot
Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.

We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood.
We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.
We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.
We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You
get Alabama.
We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states
pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the
Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a
bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and
anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at
once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have
kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no
purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their
children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq, and
hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our
resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent
of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple
and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of
America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners)
90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most
of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and
condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools, plus Harvard, Yale,
Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88
percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care
costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the
tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern
Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh,
Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was
actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred
unless we're discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say
that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was involved
in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy b*****ds believe you are people
with higher morals then we lefties.

By the way, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt
weed they grow in Mexico.

Peace out,
Blue States

You're right Roger, there is a big difference. The celebrities upset by Bush were considering giving up the privileges were saying that as a matter of personal conscience, they were willing to give up the benefits of citizenship and residency in the U.S.A. rather than continue to endorse his policies by their presence. The only silly thing about it is that as far as I know none of them did emigrate when Bush was re-elected.

Governor Perry, et. al. on the other hand, think they have the right or ability to drag the rest of the residents of their states along with their insanity.

Bah, first sentence came out a bit confused in last post. I started to write it one way, then changed it and forgot to delete original text.

The Governor of Texas had a really wicked dream last night, in which he saw all of the things mentioned in inthewoods' post (see@8:43, above) come to pass---so now he's going to "walk it back a bit."

Good on yer, itw!

DJ, please do not refer to my wife as a blowhard. Can't count the times "She who must be obeyed" has sat in front of C-Span and declared, "If Roe v Wade is overturned, we're outta here, or If the RepuGs take back our government, ditto, or If Shrub........ same-0". We're still in the lovely Pacific Northwest and haven't called U-Haul, yet. Of course, Roe is still with us, thankfully.

Like I commented upblog, the Right-wingers are ever more unstable, and show what miserable sore losers (in every sense of the term) they are.

Rick Perry and Todd Palin can form a new Secession ticket! Chuck Norris can be their Secretary of Defense. Sarah Palin can be . . . hmmm, I'm stuck there.

I say, let them go. It is only a loss if there is something there worth having to begin with.

I say if it becomes the desire of Texans to leave the union...GO FOR IT...aside from one author I enjoy reading (betting I could still find her stuff) there is nothing I would miss...AND, it would get BUSH outta the country!!!

I'm starting to get the distinct feeling that one of these days, one of these "one-uppers" will pull a Daffy Duck magic trick.....but only be able to do the trick once.

The political discord continues to fall deeper and deeper into the quagmire of the right-wings lunacy.

How is it possible to have a rational discussion of anything!?!?!?

Perhaps, at their new Right House, St Sarah can decorate their bordello, er, Ovaluate Office. And, Tom DeLay can reprise the role of General Hood.

Ah, they just want to be the Quebecois of the US. Whine about taking their ball and going home loudly enough and hope the rest of the country will bend over backwards to keep them happy.

Hey, it worked well enough for Quebec.

I think this whole issue is yet another sign that many politicians still don't understand that they can't tailor their message for the group they're addressing. You might be pleasing the crowd by talking about succession or making fun of "Macaca," but the rest of the world can still hear your words. That's one of the biggest problems Republicans face: They can't talk crazy without the non-crazies hearing about it and rejecting them.

And seriously, can yall stop talking as if you'd support a Texas succession. It makes you sound as stupid as that jackass Perry. Well, except that Perry clearly realizes the need to pretend he's not this crazy, while yall continue to spout this nonsense.

At some point in time, this is the only choice because as a nation, our tax revenues are too great as to invite total corruption. The solution is to break up into 5 or six separate countries. We can then better control what happens to our tax dollars instead of sending them south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Governor Blow Dry (y'all can thank Texas for Molly Ivins) has no street cred here in Texas, where all the urban areas went blue in a big way. No need to feel all superior to Texas--even a fine state like Illinois can elect a moron.

@ inthewoods on April 17, 2009 at 8:43

Thank you for illustrating a VERY important point. The private citizens on the left disagreeing with Bush, bitched and moaned and joked. I remember even talk about the new nation of red states being renamed "Dumbfuckistan".

The right is a whole different animal. On the right we have elected GOVERNORS and STATE REPS saying secession talk IN PUBLIC and NOT JOKING.
See the difference?

members of the Georgia Senate, the South Dakota House, and both chambers of the Oklahoma legislature have also unveiled non-binding resolutions on the nullification of the U.S. Constitution.

But wait, I thought the Tea Parties were full of signs lauding the Constitution? Did the right just embrace for one day (they surely didnt give a damn about it during the Bush years.)

Since when did Anti-Americanism become so popular among the GOP? Apparently it's 'my way or the highway' for these people when it comes to patriotism.

"No need to feel all superior to Texas--even a fine state like Illinois can elect a moron."

Yea, but in Illinois we eventually kick him out of office and replace him with a normal person.

We're waiting for the process to finally kick in in TX.

Another hypocritical fraud the Right perpetrated about "States rights": Bush offered federal statues that not only provided for weaker regulations than state regulations, but prevented states from applying stronger ones. Even under federal law is "the supreme law of the land" this is a fallacy and likely unconstitutional: for a law to be supreme means its provisions must be enforced and cannot be impeded by a state law. But if a federal law said top speed limit in the USA was 80 mph, a state law could have a lower limit of 60 mph that was enforced as a state law.

IOW, a state law that makes *more things illegal* is not in defiance of a weaker federal law, or else all state laws would be invalid. (There could be an exception, in the case of Federal laws that specifically require rights to be addressed etc but they are specially written.)

But, states can't lessen what is illegal under federal law by e.g. making a 100 mph speed limit and preventing federal officials from enforcing the national 80 mph limit.

"What the elected chief executive of one of the nation's largest states is supposed to say is secession is ridiculous."

If the Founding Father's believed that we'd be singing "God Save the Queen."

What was the American Revolution itself but a secession from the British Empire? Hmmm?

Secession is legal and the Constitution would not have been signed if certain states and statesmen of the time didn't feel they could leave the union for whatever reason.

The executive branch and congress will be making a number of decisions about investing federal dollars in long-lasting infrastructure. It makes little sense for the residents of the United States to spend tax dollars funding infrastructure improvements for a Texan Republic. It would also be wise to close military bases in Texas and transfer those operations to northern states.

WTF is up with Chuck Norris and his terrorist jargon? "Thousands of cell groups will be united around the country in solidarity over the concerns for our nation." Later he quotes Sam Houston-
"We view ourselves on the eve of battle. We are nerved for the contest, and must conquer or perish."

Bat Shit Crazy

Hopefully MA, England, and/or Scotland will grant my family asylum as we have relatives living there. I'm checking into it now....

What, whichwitch, there's no blue state you want to move to? We've got room here for you. The winters do suck, I'm warning you.

I beg your pardon. Looks like you've got that crazy liberal-ass Massachusetts on your list. Carry on.

Wasn't the recent Republican Vice-Presidential candidate married to a person who belonged to the Alaska Independence Party? This phenomenon is nothing new in right wing circles. They don't truly believe in democracy, and if they can't win an election or get their way in some other fashion they'd rather just take the ball and go home.

Dunno if anyone's thought about this, but if the Texans (or any other states) want to secede, they're going to need to buy out their share of the national debt. They can either pay cash or make their own arrangement with the chinese (though in the latter case I imagine they won't get as good a deal as they have now using U.S. treasuries).

If we don't make them do that it's yet another swindle perpetrated by this bunch of assholes. Particularly since so much of the debt was run up by either texan presidents, or by presidents they enthusiastically elected.

shortstop - I was afraid (except if kept in hiding in MA) no blue state would accept us! We are very fond of Oregon & Washington....

This is what happens when the fact that your part's nominee for vice president is an unapologetic supporter of a seccessionist organization in her own state. Palin was allowed to call Barrack Obama a friend to terrorist and the press ignored her association with the Alaskan secession movement, without paying any political consequences for it during or after the campaigne. When the media and other politicians allowed this, the heretofore batshit crazy notion of seccession gets normalized.

I lived in Texas as a child. Every morning, we sang "Texas, Our Texas," THEN said the pledge, THEN said a prayer of some generic kind, in that order. Texas has always thought of itself as another country, as far as I can tell.

pj in jesusland:

"Rick Perry and Todd Palin can form a new Secession ticket! Chuck Norris can be their Secretary of Defense. Sarah Palin can be . . . hmmm, I'm stuck there."

Sarah Palin can be the ambassador to Russia.

I doubt, though, that Chuck Norris would consent to Sec'y of State. He's already stated that he wants the presidency.

I used to watch the Texas Ranger series. If all you wanted to do after a hard day was plop down in front of the boob tube and put your brain on hold for an hour, the Texas Ranger shows satisfied as well as anything. Very black and white. Good guys always triumph. Easy to tell good guys from bad guys. Norris wore a black hat, though, but his chief sidekick, an Afro-American, wore a white hat. Always. Go figure.

Judging from the show, Norris never proceeded past adolescence in emotional development, something I believe to be true of most of our current wingers. He also has a massive ego.

The curious thing is that he advocated mostly liberal causes on the show, a fact which I doubt that he realizes. I remember shows where he went after people owning plants which were polluting water supplies of Native American tribes. He helped defend a Native American friend of his against a murder charge. He featured a sheriff of a small Texas town who made sure no brown people infested his town and who threw visiting browns into jail on the flimsiest of charges. IN this particular show Norris let his sidekick be the top star, to go after the evil sheriff.

I could cite more shows. The legal framework which allows Norris to present his fantasies of stopping the bad guys, is a framework fought for, and created by, liberals, with Norris's political cronies, or spiritual ancestors thereof, resisting with all their might, sometimes even unto violent acts. Norris's mental disconnect is awesome.

I live in Arizona and worked hard for Obama. We voted for McCain but barely. We're trending blue. I think this is true of quite a few red states. Please don't throw us out of the Union, ok?

The Right complained about anti-war protesters during the Vietnam era, but none of those (that I know of) advocated secession from this union.

How can they complain about taxes and then discuss secession at the same time? If you don't like taxes then act within the system to get what you want. Secession is entirely different.

If they really wanted secession they wouldn't even bother to bring up their anti-tax views.

For once, Texas Governor Rick Perry is correct. Many conservative and libertarian Americans agree that the right of peaceful, democratic secession by state convention is a legitimate constitutional right of every state in the union.

There are only two solutions to the massive Washington national debt now threatening the economic future and prosperity of every productive American. One is peaceful secession on the state level from the Washington Empire leaving the illegitimate federal debts with the Washington and Wall Street interests who created the debts. The second alternative is a constitutional amendment by the states to cancel the Washington national debt. The cancel the Washington Debt by 12/21/2012 Constitutional Amendment is now online at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=67594690498&ref=ts