I'm kind of curious about why you so quickly assume a wiretap was legal because an anonymous source said it was.

It seems more likely to me that the wiretap wasn't legal, so they used it to essentially blackmail her rather than bring charges up against her.

Remember this one, people. Remember the call for more and **BETTER** Democrats. This is precisely the kind of quid-pro-quo corruption we need to squash within our party.

What really annoys me about this is not the individual case. What gets to me is that I've been saying for a while now that democrats had to be complicit in the Bush administration law breaking, and a lot of people told me I was at least exaggerating. Here's proof that I wasn't. And I am not the least bit happy about being proven right.

DR: I've been reading about this at several sites this morning, and I haven't yet found any evidence that it was a legal wire tap. But there are indications that it was part of a regular investigation into suspected Israeli agents, which would imply that it was legal.

But this is definitely an angle that needs to be followed up.

I wish Jane Harman would resign today. With this news, she's an embarrassment to Dems and progressives everywhere.

Shade Tail,
It may very well have been a legal wiretap. However because Steve emphasized the word "legal" I would have hoped he could link to something not quoting an anonymous source.

This tape will self destruct in five seconds

Time to clean house, again....

This does explain the head scratching swings in Harmon's positions of warrantless wiretapping and Bush's policies in general regarding national security. One question, is whether her wiretap was legal as some accounts claim. And was this Israeli agent in the US and the target for intercept. Or, was Harman the target, which would raise all sorts of sordid questions likely with sordid answers.

Either way, if true, it looks like Obstruction of Justice for Harman and possible blackmail by Gonzo. Not to mention influence peddling for both to obstruct justice.

Anyways, I will trade a Harman for a Bushie any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Score one for the hippies. We knew she was rotten from waaaay back. Hence the primary challenge.

This could be a great way to open up an investigation into several things, Harman will look to bring down others to protect herself, and who knows what that will uncover...

And if Bushies were blackmailing, hopefully, they will serve time for SOMETHING, since the Prez won't prosecute them for torture/war crimes...

I saw this in Blue Girl's newswrap last night, and figured that you would expand on it. If you two aren't in cahoots, you are obviously twins who were separated at birth.

Why does everyone overlook the treason to get at
the wiretap - which I view as likely legal, since
it was targetting Israeli spies?

Is this back to the view that Israel could not spy on the US ... BY DEFINITION?

It's coming out in dribbles but we're getting more confirmation on the Bushies abuse of power and the co-opting of many Dems n the process. Bush really killed the Republican party, killed it dead.

it also may help explain Democratic passiveness on the wiretapping issues and other Bush wrongdoing in general -- do you really think Harmon was the only one doing things like this and for whom Gonzales or others "intervened" (and were then owed reciprocal favors)?

*adjusts tin-foil hat*

Why does everyone overlook the treason...

Jesus, people, enough with all this idiotic talk about 'treason'. It’s the only crime defined in the Constitution, not in the criminal code, and it’s a clear definition.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." See also 18 USC 2381, roughly ditto.

Unless a.) Israel is an enemy of the US, or b.) we’re at war with Israel, or both, Harman's not treason, Gonzo's not guilty of treason. Blackmail, bribery, influence peddling, illegal receiver downfield, double parking — but not treason.

Precision matters in language, in thought.

Why does everyone overlook the treason to get at
the wiretap

Treason has a special definition in the Constitution with specific criteria to be met, and since it is in the constitution, therefore, arguably the most serious crime an American can commit. You could be right that this meets the colloquial definition of the term, though I think it is overused in general. Motive is relevant here, and it seems the motive was not to damage America, but was pure self promotion.

This story has more plot twists than the current Russell Crow, Ben Affleck pot boiler.

The real question is why are liberals and progressives so eager to believe a story based almost in its entirety on anonymous sources. Nay anonymous former Bush officials. I thought it smelled fishy from the time I first read the article. Turns out I might have been right.

http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2009/04/20/1004472/why-the-harman-leaks-smell-to-high-heaven

The Israeli government wouldn't damage America to promote Israel? Let me tell you a story about a US Navy ship that came under Israeli fire a few years back. Don't kid yourselves, Israel might have a lot of friends in Washington and New York, but it is still a foreign power playing its own power game.

If it isn't treason it is something damn close. Harmon should go directly to jail. She shouldn't collect $200. She shouldn't have been given a get out of jail free card if she played ball with Gonzo.

sgwhiteinfla, the reason people are buying the story is that it sounds like of stuff both the Israel lobby and Harmon would pull. Of course you are right. They are both entitled to the presumption of innocence.

It might be too early to declare a conviction, but this:

http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2009/04/20/1004472/why-the-harman-leaks-smell-to-high-heaven

...is very weak tea. It reads far too much like a press release from Fox News or the GOP, playing around with facts to make them sound either more or less damning than they really are. And that site seems to have a rather severe pro-Israel bias, which could easily come into play considering that the wiretap in question was focused specifically on a suspected Israeli spy.

Glenn Greenwald has a more compelling take:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/20/harman/index.html

Folks, I love to watch the Israel lobby when they come to the defense of one of their own. Very soon they will be calling people anti-Semitic.

Stick with the facts of the story. Don't let the professionals at AIPAC side track it. Even if the wiretap was illegal the fact remains Harmon might have been engaged in trading favors with the Israel lobby (Israel) to get the Intelligence job. She got caught and then used by the Bush administration. That is the real story here. We need to find out how and just how many foreign powers have compromised elected officials.

Steal French fighter? 'S OK
Steal US nuclear secrets? Yep
Kill US sailors in attack on ship? Check
More nuclear espionage? That, too.
Suborn US politicians? Good
The US has been putting up with punking like this for decades, and the wingnuts get upset about a HANDSHAKE making us look weak?

Harmon got caught trading favors with a foreign power, and she should pay a price for this, but AIPAC has been caught spying and influence pedeling again.

In exchange for Harman's help, the sources said, the suspected Israeli agent pledged to help lobby Nancy Pelosi , D-Calif.

Somebody needs to ask Speaker Pelosi what the hell LOBBYING means, and just exactly how much influence AIPAC has over her.

We don't allow foreign agents to operate freely in the US whether it's China or Russia or Israel. When are we gonna outlaw AIPAC?

I don't know whether or not what she did was illegal according to the law, but it was seriously stupid. And frankly I think she should resign. She represents her constituents in California and the United States, she is not an elected or appointed official of the government of Israel.

Glad now that she didn't get that committee chairmanship.

Although everyone is talking about Harman, it seems to me that the real story here is that Gonzo committed a blatant obstruction of justice and could very realistically do jail time for this if anyone bothers to investigate and bring charges.

...overheard on an NSA wiretap telling a suspected Israeli agent that she would lobby the Justice Department reduce espionage-related charges against two officials of the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, the most powerful pro-Israel organization in Washington.

If these events actually took place, then the defined charges against Harman could conceivably include "collaboration with a foreign government for profit" (in this case, political profit). That would constitute "espionage."

But if the facts were to bear out that Harman, in exchange for that "political profit", had gone so far as to deliberately seek to prohibit the prosecution of foreign agents, then---depending on what these agents were trafficking in---she could face any level of charges. For example, suppose (just hypothesizing here; don't go all bizarro yet) that the agents originally facing prosecution has sought information of a national-security-related nature; anything that might have constituted an act of treason, had it been attempted by a U.S. national. By definition, Harman might well have placed herself in a position to be called out for "aiding and abetting", or "giving aid and comfort".

It's my understanding that "spying on your own country", depending on the circumstances surrounding the act, could qualify as an act of treason....

In defense of my gal Pelosi, it sure looks like this "lobbying" backfired. Harmon didn't the seat she wanted, she didn't get an Obama appointment, and she's relegated to the bank benches.

Time for the Democrats (at least) to stand up to AIPAC, but other lobbying outfits as well. AIPAC is more "dangerous" in geopolitical terms since they represent a foreign nation, but the financial crowd needs to be tamped down as well.

I smell a ratfucking.

For example, suppose....that the agents originally facing prosecution has sought information of a national-security-related nature; anything that might have constituted an act of treason...

US Constitution, Article III, section 3: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." See also 18 USC 2381, roughly ditto.

Are we at war with Israel? Are they an enemy?

Influence peddling. Blackmail. Bribery. General corruption. Mis- and malfeasance in office. Possibly.

Treason, no.

Indict Gonzales now! Harman's a sleaze, but it's just as devastating an indictment of Gonzo. This indicates that he engaged both in suppressing a legitimate case and, quite possibly, in blackmail. It's stronger evidence of wrongdoing than anything the Republicans ever had on Clinton. Attorney General Holder, get on this immediately.

Does anyone think Israel is going to react badly to the fact that the US Government was/is spying on their 'suspected agents"?

Obama is merely human, however, if he somehow manages to navigate the Cl*&^%$#*ck George Bush, Dick Cheney and Condi Rice left in the ME and create a better outcome than now appears likely, he may will transcend his humanity to some more highly evolved life form.

Davis X: I was inaccurate on treason, by the definition in the constitution. We are not at war with Israel, but spying on friends is considered in bad taste. (In other words, we probably do it to them, too.)

Does that mean that since we were not at war with
the USSR during the 50's that spies working for the USSR could not be considered treasonous?

I should have written espionage - i.e. Harman
apparently promised to work to
advance the efforts of Israeli spies.

Why do you seem to consider the case one of
influence peddling, or maybe mis-feasance,
rather than spying against the US?

The real question is why are liberals and progressives so eager to believe a story based almost in its entirety on anonymous sources.

Because Harman has been fucking liberals and progressives over for years. I used to live in her district, and she's an idiot who has way too much power.

Not to mention that Harman's 180-degree turn from "wiretapping is bad" to "wiretapping ROCKS!" was more than a little suspicious to begin with, so no one's really surprised to hear that it may have happened due to outside pressure and not her own "conviction" that something that was bad and wrong one day was perfectly fine the next.

DXM has a point, but: we have long prosecuted citizens for spying, even for "friendly" nations (Pollard etc.) We just can't call it "treason" in law.

Not to mention that Harman's 180-degree turn from "wiretapping is bad" to "wiretapping ROCKS!" -Mnemosyne

Something tells me she'll be back on the side of "wiretapping is bad." :)

I am not being persnickety for persnicketiness' sake. The term "treason" is thrown around far too casually. (I am predisposed to be tetchy on this subject, since I spent basically the entire period from 2002 to 2008 being accused of it.)

Stick with the facts of the story. Don't let the professionals at AIPAC side track it. Even if the wiretap was illegal the fact remains Harmon might have been engaged in trading favors with the Israel lobby (Israel) to get the Intelligence job. She got caught and then used by the Bush administration. That is the real story here. We need to find out how and just how many foreign powers have compromised elected officials.

Exactly.

This is the Obama admin's first test to demonstrate that they are not beholden to AIPAC. If nothing happens to Harmon, we'll have our answer.

Although everyone is talking about Harman, it seems to me that the real story here is that Gonzo committed a blatant obstruction of justice and could very realistically do jail time for this if anyone bothers to investigate and bring charges.

That Gonzo is a crook isn't new or surprising; that Harmon is a crook is surprising to some of the more, er, moderate Dems. They both belong in jail.

I am not being persnickety for persnicketiness' sake. The term "treason" is thrown around far too casually. (I am predisposed to be tetchy on this subject, since I spent basically the entire period from 2002 to 2008 being accused of it.)

Point taken, but your continuing insistence that people eschew the common dictionary def of the word "treason" and only use it in its strict legal jargon sense is merely serving to derail this thread from its point.

For an elected US representative to break their oath of office and conspire with another country to subvert the legal process in the US is plainly *treason* by any common use of the word.

It's highly possible that the wiretapping was legally targeting an Israeli communications line related to the ongoing investigation of the AIPAC officials, and Harman got picked up that way. Not only that, but if Jane Harman was suspected of acting on behalf of a foreign government while not in an official position to do so, that's acting as an "agent of a foreign power." If Justice was investigating her for such an unlawful act, or for espionage related to it, then wiretapping her communications was perfectly legal and would have been approved by the FISA court.

CREW is pushing for an investigation.

By the common definition, Velveeta is cheese. It isn't. But no harm comes from tossing that definition around carelessly.