Why do the Republicans refer to Chavez as a dictator? Even if he is obnoxious, and "virulently anti-american", he was undoubtedly democratically elected.

"Pence added that it's 'demoralizing' for those who hope for freedom to see an American leader greet 'the very people who are oppressing them.' "

No, no. It is important for Democrats to continue to talk to Republicans.

Oh, Snap!

Someone get the feinting couch.

I like that.

I swear it looked like she was trying not to laugh at that idiot. And I love that look on his face, so serious that it looks like he's about to stick out his lower lip and pout.

Clinton: Point, Set, Match. You go girl!

Even if he is obnoxious, and "virulently anti-american", he was undoubtedly democratically elected.

he's virulently anti-Bush, for which he gets points for taste. (i suppose he's be virulently anti-obama too, if obama supported a coup against him.)

That was just wrong! She mine as well told him to sit in the corner afterwards.

Good on Hillary. She might have made a good president, but she's doing a damn fine job as Secretary of State.

Someone get the feinting couch.

That the couch that tiptoes away every time you want to faint on it?

Not to mention the multitude of pro-American dictators we've been in bed with for decades.

That the couch that tiptoes away every time you want to faint on it?

It's the one you flop on when you are pretending you're offended.

What amazes me is how polite she was to this jerk. He raises this phoney, drummed up concern about (OMG!) a hand shake and makes it sound tantamount to treason, and Hillary simply forcefully disagrees with him. I would not have been able to avoid going after the guy for pushing ridiculous talking points that he got from Sean Hanity, but I guess that's why I'll never be a cabinet secretary.

Hillary must have been thinking, Damn, where's that picture of Rumsfeld hugging Saddam when I need it?

And Pence thinks there's "nothing more demoralizing" to our troops than to see Obama shaking hands with Chavez? How about being sent into an unnecessary war with no plan for victory, and no body armor and vehicle armor?

Also, I spewed my coffee when I heard the word "profound" come out of his mouth. That word would have more credibility coming from Spongebob.

"I appreciate your feelings", which is why I'm not going to tell you, to your face and in public, that you're an idiot. You gotta love that motherly, understanding smile on her face. And her statement that she's lived a long time? Suggesting that he was still poopin' his diapers when she was paying attention to the world around her? Priceless.

Danp @15:55,

Nope. That would be a *feigning* couch. A "feinting" one is the one which pretends to be there and, just as you aim at it... gone.

And we all want our president, no matter of which party, to succeed, especially in such a perilous time.
==========

Well, actually, no. The Republican leadership wants our president to fail, especially in such a perilous time.

Party uber alles.

Steve, you buried the lede, which of course is that Clinton finally admitted that Obama and his ideas/approach beat her and her ideas/approach in the primary....

Seriously, though, would you please stop, just STOP! accepting the wingnut talking point that Chavez is an odious dictator?

I don't think that went as Pence thought it would. Unless he wanted the Secretary of State to put him in his place and articulate a sane foreign relations philosophy and remind Republicans their candidate lost and their way of seeing foreign relations lost.

... to see an American leader greet "the very people who are oppressing them."
And exactly how is Chavez opressing us ??? Oh I know, he makes us look cheap by giving oil to our poorest citizens during the winter.
What an asshat , and as Rob Mac said he needs to turn off Fox news.

Why do the Republicans refer to Chavez as a dictator?

Same reason they call Obama a socialist, communist, nazi, fascist, or whatever else. It "sounds bad", to people who have no idea what the actual meanings of these words are.

The Republican base, IOW.

As someone who had doubts about whether this Obama-Hillary team would work, I think I just found another item to put into my "Barack Obama is Smarter Than I Am" folder.

Really, what a bunch whiney assed losers. Any nay say will do for the fucking clowns. "profound concern"; yeah, that's rich!

And we all want our president, no matter of which party, to succeed, especially in such a perilous time.

See the problem Pence has now? If he agrees with Clinton, he gets in trouble with Rush Limbaugh, the de facto leader of his party. If he sticks with Limbaugh, Hillary Clinton, let alone any reasonably intelligent Democrat, makes him look like an ass. Perhaps Indiana will be the next state to threaten secession...

exlibra - it also means "to make a deceptive show of"

I was wondering about this oppressive dictator stuff too. As I understand it, Venezuelans democratically elected Chavez. Is it because he's socialist or anti-American (anti-Bush) that makes him an oppressive dictator?

I wish she had told Pence, "Geeze, for God's sake, it was only a handshake. Get a life. He didn't look into his eyes and see his soul." I know, I know, Secretaries of State don't say things like that in public.

I wish I could understand why this point isn't obvious to clowns like Pence.

Perhaps I can help. It may have something to do with the fact that President Obama is black. It'd be nice to think that the opposition party's opposition is based on something loftier. But I don't think that's the case.

Nice job Hilary!

Outstanding job by Sec. Clinton.

And check out the video with Rohrbacher. With that suit and haircut it looks like he's on his way to audition for the part of Luca Brazzi in a "Godfather" prequel.

I was wondering about this oppressive dictator stuff too. As I understand it, Venezuelans democratically elected Chavez.

Chavez was elected three times, in fair elections, with an overwhelming majority each time. The reason GOPers refer to him as a dictator is that the Venezuelan elite don't support him.

I will say, Secretary Clinton was far more diplomatic than I would have been - I gues that's why she's SoS and, well, I'm not.

What the hell is Pence talking about with "oppressed peoples"? Please, spare me. Like him or not, Venezuelans have elected Chavez twice, by large margins, so who, exactly, is being oppressed? Oh yeah, that's right, the oligarchs who can't shit on poor Venezuelans so easily any more!

Chavex certainly has his faults, but the attempt for those on the right to paint him as a modern day Stalin or Mao is patently absurd, and offensive to the memories of the millions of innocents slaughtered by those despots.

Hillary! This is why I soooo love you! This was priceless. You handled this goofball with class, yet put him in his place! God Bless you!

It was like watching a Relief Pitcher that comes in and strikes out the side on 9 pitches! Suuuweeet! :-))

The reason GOPers refer to him as a dictator is that the Venezuelan elite don't support him.

The GOPers couldn't care less about "the Venezuelan elite". US and other Western oil interests, OTOH...

hah! She should have added " now pretty please, with sugar on top, STFU"

Ah, cmd, how I have missed your supreme ability to miss the forest for the trees. Of course, the VZ elite are proxies for Western capitalists of all sorts. Is there any else who didn't get that?

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS! FOR HILLARY!!!

Ah, cmd, how I have missed your supreme ability to miss the forest for the trees. Of course, the VZ elite are proxies for Western capitalists of all sorts.

Sure, but the GOP doesn't care about those "elites" in their own right, only about the interests for which the politicians in the GOP are, just as are the Venezuelan elites, proxies.

Its like saying that Obama supports health care reform because I do, when (assuming, arguendo, this is the case and Obama doesn't have secret motivations that I don't know about) in fact the relationship is that Obama and I happen to both support such reform would be good for the vast majority of the American people, American business competitiveness, etc., and there is no direct causal link between my opinion and Obama's, in either direction.

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS! FOR HILLARY!!!

Actually, it is. And it's kind of nice to see the line that made us all laugh during the primaries now applies without irony to her so far very solid performance as SofS.

Seriously, though, would you please stop, just STOP! accepting the wingnut talking point that Chavez is an odious dictator?

He no can do. It's in the WM contract, right under the paragraph requiring Drum to keep blithely stating that Michael Moore's movies were just chock full of erroneous information and characterizing everyone left of Dan Lipinski as living in the fever swamp of liberal hysteria. The day the Carpetbagger closed up shop was a sad day indeed.

Best of all was seeing Pence after getting his clock well cleaned by Secretary of State Clinton, he thanked her for it. Sweet.

'As someone who had doubts about whether this Obama-Hillary team would work, I think I just found another item to put into my "Barack Obama is Smarter Than I Am" folder.'

Without a doubt, Obama has always been smarter than his supporters.

Nice going, Madam Secretary.

Disputo: "Steve, you buried the lede, which of course is that Clinton finally admitted that Obama and his ideas/approach beat her and her ideas/approach in the primary ..."

Huh?

Disputo: "Seriously, though, would you please stop, just STOP! accepting the wingnut talking point that Chavez is an odious dictator?"

Oh, you were making a funny. Heh.

Seriously, though, where exactly in Steve's post, pray tell, is he "accepting the wingnut talking point that Chavez is an odious dictator?"

While I'll agree with your opinion that Hugo Chavez is no "odious dictator", I happen to consider him an odious buffoon prone to pompous spats of neo-populist demagogy, who was unfortunately given instant and perpetual credibility when that insane clown posse led by Dick Cheney actively courted his removal in a failed April 2002 coup d'etat.

Nevertheless, President Chavez was democratically elected and re-elected three times by the people of Venezuela, and Americans surely need to respect their collective decision, even if some of us deplore their particular choice of leader.

And for all his faults and machinations, Hugo Chavez has in fact respected the democratic political processes of his own country, and has accepted his occasional electoral setbacks acordingly, albeit grudgingly and sometimes gracelessly.

Well done, Madam Secretary. Wouldn't have bothered me one bit if you had really taken him to the woodshed, though....

Congressman, we're living in serious times. And while we really, truly want to move forward with a bipartisan foreign policy, we simply do not have time for partisan games. Your party's feigned outrage over President Obama's basic decency toward a fellow head of state is not only misplaced, it's silly. The pictures of President Obama politely shaking hands with Mr. Chavez disturbed you? What about the pictures of former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein? What about President Reagan shaking hands with Secretary Gorbachev? President Nixon with Mao Tse Tung - a true dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands of his people? Did those pictures bother you? If they did, I'm sorry. I'm sorry if they're demoralizing to you. But Congressman, diplomacy is a difficult business. It - by definition - involves dealing with people you'd rather not. But we had eight years of trying it the other way, and the results speak for themselves.

And so forth.

Capt. Kirk: "Best of all was seeing Pence after getting his clock well cleaned by Secretary of State Clinton, he thanked her for it. Sweet."

That was good, but I really liked the fade-out at the very end, when the committee chair's detached voice matter-of-factly stated for the record while the camera was still trained upon Mr. Pence, "The gentleman's time has expired ..."

Truer words were never spoken.

That was a great comment, Donald...

@Michael W "Good on Hillary. She might have made a good president..."

@Disputo "Steve, you buried the lede, which of course is that Clinton finally admitted that Obama and his ideas/approach beat her and her ideas/approach in the primary...."
________________-

And still the fringe far-left Obama supporters use this amazing moment to grind their misogynist anti-Hillary axe.

The reason Obama's foreign policy is sound (or was sound until his release of state intelligence secrets opened up a crapstorm) was because Hillary has been propping him up and laying the groundwork. The reason he's a mess domestically is because she's not involved.

One day, the fringe Obama supporters are going to have to admit they were wrong about Hillary -- like Obama had to. Or maybe not. Since she has the highest approval rating of anyone in his White House including the President, she doesn't need them anyway.

alert

danger will robinson, danger
d.k. jamal, CONCERN TROLL

My estimation of SoS Clinton just went up ten fold. Actually it's been on the increase sense she was confirmed.

What I want to know is, why can't the Democratic talking heads on the Sunday morning talk shows deal with idotic republican talking points and false premise questions in a similar fashion?

They seem to send the dumbest spokespersons they can find to go on these shows and allow Newt, Will, and Boner to clean their clocks.

That's why everone thinks Newt is some kind of high brow intellectual, when in reality he's a dumb as a bag of hammers.

Mr. Pence looked stupid and shallow.

Mrs. Clinton looked smart and talked sense.

I'm glad she's Secretary of State and not somebody like Pence.

I forgive her for her entire presidential campaign, even for hiring that bloated, red-faced creep.

Chavez was anti-Bush. The mouth-breathing Republicans that acted as W's cheer leading section were anti-American

D.K. Jamal, sez:
And still the fringe far-left Obama supporters use this amazing moment to grind their misogynist anti-Hillary axe.

It was a joke, you delusional racist prick.

We fringe far-left Obama supporters are in the majority now, or did you sleep through the election? Talk about not being able to let it go.

But, hey, thx for reminding me why I spent the last yr away from the blogs.

Why do the Republicans refer to Chavez as a dictator? Even if he is obnoxious, and "virulently anti-american", he was undoubtedly democratically elected.

Because when the Bush administration tried to overthrow Chavez, Chavez refused to go. Since Chavez is not the president that the Bushies wanted, that means he's an illegitimate dictator even if he was elected by the people of Venezuela.

It's pretty simple, really. :-)

Seriously, though, where exactly in Steve's post, pray tell, is he "accepting the wingnut talking point that Chavez is an odious dictator?"

You know, you're right, and I retract my criticism as it relates to this post. Steve has made several posts of late in which he has, disappointingly, boosted unsubstantiated winger talking points about Chavez, but he didn't do it this time. Apologies, Steve.

Mr. Pence looked stupid and shallow.

Well, sure, but he was extra stagy and pompous to make up for his ignorance and lack of depth.

Keep in mind that Pence is not some obscure backbencher or a cuckoo gadfly like Rorhbacher. He's the Conference Chairman of the GOP House caucus. He's the NUMBER THREE LEADER of the GOP in the House. This is one of their best and their brightest. And here he's revealed as a clueless, petty idiot who Hillary spanks like a naughty child.

If Pence is the best the GOP has to offer, they are completely, utterly f__ked.

Hillary, you go, girl!!

[Unlike Disputo, you have no standing here. If you wish to engage in discussion, that is one thing. But spewing PUMA garbage will not be tolerated. Take it over to No Quarter or post it at your own blog. -Moderator]

To compare Obama's recent tour of apologies to two bit dictators to Reagan's defeat of Communism is ridiculous and show an unbelievable ignorance and naivety. The ONLY thing the the two situations might have had is a hand shake. Reagan criticized the soviets to the point where he call them the Evil Empire. He promoted freedom and the greatness of our country. Much to the contrary, obama is doing a two bit dictator tour and apologizing for freedom and America. Reagan defeated communism. I get the feeling that obama would like American defeated by communism.

Obama and Clinton are very dangerous for the well being of America. Moreover, citizen's ignorance and stupidity as illustrated on this site contribute to the danger.

To compare Obama's recent tour of apologies to two bit dictators to Reagan's defeat of Communism

Reagan didn't defeat Communism. China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, and Laos are still communist. As for the USSR, it was bankrupt, crumbling from within and desperate for change. If anything, McDonald's, blue jeans and rock music "defeated" it.

And you might not have been following the story, but the Russians never got rid of all those missiles and despite Bush's metaphysical ogling of Putin he's quite the brash autocrat.

Much to the contrary, obama is doing a two bit dictator tour and apologizing for freedom and America.

Obama hasn't apologized one bit for freedom, but you sure are an ignorant lying asswipe for saying so. What he has done is apologize for the sabre-rattling and smug dick-swinging of the Bush administration, who created enemies so cowardly dopes like you would feel like all the bogeymen were safely at bay so you could cower just a little less under your blankie at night.

I get the feeling that obama would like American defeated by communism.

Really, how do you even function in modern society when you're so estranged from reality? Obama has gifted hundreds of billions to banks, the engines of capital, without so much as taking controlling interest or nationalizing them or dictating bonuses. Capitalism has never had such a benefactor.

Really, aren't you ashamed of your stupidity? I sure am. I would like to live in a country where people were educated, informed, analytical, impartial, and not a little brave. You and you ideological littermates are none of those things.

Shake their hands? Hell, St. Ronnie sold them friggin' WEAPONS fer crissakes.

Don't these idiots remember ANYTHING?

I take that back. It's pretty darned clear that their heads are playback machines for the Talking Points of the Day and have no memory at all.

"What amazes me is how polite she was to this jerk."

Hell, she IS becoming a good diplomat.

"...why can't the Democratic talking heads on the Sunday morning talk shows deal with idotic republican talking points and false premise questions in a similar fashion?"

WHAT Democratic talking heads? They put on two or three Republican pundits/party hacks and a mainstream MSM journalist. There are Dem talking heads, but they don't get booked.

Or maybe they're just too busy running the country. Barney Frank did a great job every time he appeared on The Stim.

Florida has a couple of good spokespeople, Wexler and Wasserman-Schultz. I just recently learned she's been fighting cancer, but even when healthy, she didn't appear much on the Sunday gasbag shows.

Krugman hits back pretty well, but he's not a party spokesman, which has been pretty clear.

That guy Steve, McNamara?, they have on MSNBC drinks ReThug milkshake pretty well, but I've never seen him break through to the Sunday shows.

How's about Eliot Spitzer? He's available, smart, and articulate. If adulterer Gingrinch can appear, why not Spitzer? Because he PAID for it? Oh come on.

If Tom Delay is OK, so is Spitzer.

Sunday shows are run by Republican media, and don't you EVER forget it.

Good, Cazart. Just one addition: it is just so that the people you need to negotiate with are the people who oppose you. Those who support you will go along. Diplomacy is the art of reaching those who do NOT oppose you.

Then a final, "dimwit."

Reagan defeated the USSR, my ass. While Gorbie, the Pope, and Lech Walesa may have had something to do with it, anyone knows that the ultimate blow was landed by Bruce.

rwood is kind of funny defending Reagan since spend, spend, spend was his theory on how to "defeat" the Soviets, but I bet rwood thinks Obama spending us out of another Great Depression is a bad idea.

But more to the point, to think Reagan "defeated the Soviet Union" is to be unaware of the history of Europe where, I'm sorry to tell rwood, Russia is. And in case rwood doesn't know, Russia ran the Soviet Union although the Soviet Union was much bigger than Russia.

Anyway, rwood should read a little about the breaking away of Eastern Europe from the Soviet Union. Rwood MAY have heard of the Polish Solidarity movement. Rwood probably does NOT know about similar underminings by both the other "soviets" (now independent and widely diverse countries from Ukraine to Kazakhstan) but also Iron Curtain countries like Hungary and the Czech Republic.

Once Eastern Europe was gone, the "soviets" (supposedly like our states) left, too, leaving Mother Russia alone.

Reagan was around at the time of Gorbachev. I never liked his politics, from California to Washington, but I've got to admit, the guy was Lucky.

ImpeachJB: Don't these idiots remember ANYTHING?

It is one of the great ironies that the party that cannot possibly act with any foresight whatsoever is also damned with chronic amnesia.

The GOP has no interest in the future [because Jesus is going to come take them away before the shit gets really bad] and refuses to recognize anything it has done in the past. That makes them scrappers, saying now whatever they believe will bring them more power now and more money now and more votes now! There is no benefit for Republicans in saying or doing or recognizing or admitting anything that is not squarely rooted in now.

Global warming? Not now.
Economic collapse? Not now.
Downside to an illegal war fought with contractors and using torture? Not now.

I am amazed at the hate directed at President Bush on this site. While you may not agree with his policies his first responsibility after the 9-11 attacks was to insure America was never attacked again, and he was successful. PS. He also was a qualified single seat US Airforce attack pilot. Based on the fatality rate of military pilots he certainly could have chosen a less risky military occupation but he chose to risk his life in service to his country. Take a look inside a 1960s era fighter and tell me an unintelligent person could master its controls.

his first responsibility after the 9-11 attacks

...was the same responsibility he had before the 9-11 attacks. Unfortunately, he ignored the intelligence reports that warned him of the imminent attack, telling the messenger, "Okay, you've covered your ass now."

was to insure America was never attacked again, and he was successful.

Similarly, my technique of snapping my fingers has kept tigers from appearing on the streets of Chicago and the sun from rising in the west. Gotta say how pathetic it is that the Bush apologists all use the "he kept us safe line" now. It's literally all they have left, and it's still a lame attempt to prove a negative. Do y'all have no dignity whatsoever? An embarrassed silence is really your best option going forward.

Based on the fatality rate of military pilots he certainly could have chosen a less risky military occupation but he chose to risk his life in service to his country.

The risk goes down to zero when you're AWOL while your countrymen are dying in your place in Vietnam.

Epic, epic fail.

Man. I just stumbled upon this site but you guys are a bunch of wackos. I do think that you liberals are very entertaining. When it is clear that you naive world is irrational you resort to name calling - very typical.

Getting back to the point. Reagan was not lucky, he knew what he was doing. I completely understand that one man did not defeat the Soviet Union, but he led the defeat of the Soviet Union. This leadership did not involve apologizing for the US - that would have been naive and stupid. Imagine how a freedom movement leader would have felt in any one of the countries that you had mentioned if the leader of the free world is apologizing for freedom. That freedom movement leader would find it difficult to gain support and at some point would just give up.

Reagan did not indiscriminately spend to defeat the soviets. he spent on national defense. Obama is like a little child spending money that does not belong to him for no particular good use.

To say that Obama is spending government money to save capitalism is ridiculous. Government intervention in the free markets is the opposite of free markets. For God sakes, Obama fire a CEO in the private sector. GM should be bankrupt and Obama has wasted our money in a futile attempt to bail out a failing company.

The people on this blog have very little understanding of history and capitalism and I suspect the constitution. Or, it is possible that they understand it but want the reality to fit Obama's naive view of the world. Most liberals understand the constitution but merely dismiss it as a worthless piece of paper.

rwood:
To paraphrase Hillary, we just had an election and Barack Obama won it. Deal.