If he's really worried about confined spaces, elevators are freaking petri dishes for communicable diseases.

Jeez, Joe, lighten up.

I know this was a gaffe, but I have to admit I'm with Joe on this one. The last few times I've been on a plane I've gotten sick. When they pressurize the cabin that air is not going anyplace.

So just to take a straw poll, how many people are encouraging their family members to take the train, a subway or a bus today? I can tell you for damn sure I'm not. Its a shame that we punish politicians over and over for speaking the truth. What Joe Biden said was imminently reasonable because he added the caveat "if they have other means of transportation". But because its Joe Biden and the press are going to try to blow it up then it has to be walked back. If you have a car I for one think taking the bus right now when we are on the verge of a pandemic is pretty effing stupid. If you think every person who feels sick is going to stay home you're crazy. Not only that, the swine flu is reported to have about a week latency period. How what Biden said is somehow a major gaffe is beyond me.

My only question is, is verbal diarrhea a symptom of the flu, or is it a chronic condition?

The national debt is worrisome. Auction off rights to sneeze on George Bush's and Dick Cheney's door knobs. Probably put a dent in the numbers just a bit.

i was gonna say that in this time of pandemic (well, in the media anyway) the veep should avoid putting his foot in his mouth.

Obama needs to keep Biden busy in the office.

I read two plague scenario books years ago. In both books planes were the fast delivery system for the flu virus around the world in a week's time. By Monday the world should have a good idea how bad this virus is going to be.

After watching the whole clip I can't say this was any kind of major gaffe. At least it didn't come across that way.

Mountains our of mole hills. I doubt his comment about advising his family to avoid mass transit and confined spaces is going to cause wide spread panic. I'm not even convinced what he said was at all inappropriate. Mexico City, afterall, is closing restaurants, stores, etc and advising people to avoid unnecessary contacts to "mitigate" the spreading of the virus.

Biden's comment just isn't that far off mark.

Agreed, but on the flip side this was one of the worst interviews in Matt Lauer's history, and he's done some real stinkers before.

First, the question about not closing borders, Americans are "shaking their head" - who told you that, you idiot?

Second, the question about 'beatiful' people, and effectively calling Biden 'ugly' to his face. Who gave this buffoon a job?

Maybe he went a little beyond what Obama was saying, but nothing that I wouldn't recommend myself. Of course people have to make a big deal about this because the "Joe Biden is a gaffe machine" myth has become the MSM groupthink position just like the "Al Gore the liar said he invented the internet" myth. It distracts from the fact that they enabled a true moron and gaffe machine who couldn't even pronounce basic words for eight long years.
Morning show hosts are the absolute bottom rung of the ladder--just look at Morning Joe or Fox & Friends or any other one. Awful, and usually filled with right wing talking points.

I'm glad to see some candor. Talking heads have to have something to talk about. They've could just ignore the comment, you know.

Biden is just ahead of the curve on this. Sure, you might call his advice 'premature', but IMHO, better safe than sorry. I would advise my family just as Joe described.

I don't see a major gaffe. Biden's statement was sensible and honest. Bush told us to keep shopping or the terrorst would win. I can imagine Bush saying to keep flyin' and ridin' buses or the virus wins. If you want gaffe, imagine possible answers to the same question from Vice President Sarah Palin.

I dont really see an issue with what he did. Was it a bit extreme? Maybe, maybe not. I work in law enforcement and our main disaster management personnel has been in meetings for the past week on the swine flu and he said the shit is serious and that precautions *should* be taken such as staying away from large groups of people, say like you might find in a subway or plane.

What Joe Biden said was imminently reasonable because he added the caveat "if they have other means of transportation".

Like driving alone in cars, polluting our little hearts out.

Like driving alone in cars, polluting our little hearts out.

As opposed to getting sick and dying from a pandemic flu? Get a grip.
And it's not like buses, subways, planes and trains don't all belch pollutants, and aren't filled with people taking unnecessary trips.

"unnecessary trips" - Such as the A's travelling to Texas to play baseball, eh?

Now, moving on to stop spitting in dugouts.

Yes, Biden is ahead of the curve. Lauer is a flack.

As opposed to getting sick and dying from a pandemic flu? Get a grip.

Oh, it's a bona fide pandemic now? I missed the announcement.

And it's not like buses, subways, planes and trains don't all belch pollutants, and aren't filled with people taking unnecessary trips.

Uh huh. And China and India pollute recklessly, so why should we even bother trying to cut our own emissions? And why does Al Gore have such a big house anyway?

There's a grip that needs to be gotten here, but I'm pretty sure it ain't on my end.

Oh, it's a bona fide pandemic now? I missed the announcement.

Ask the WHO, they've got the rating at 4 or 5 out of 6 now. Maybe you did miss the announcement.

Uh huh. And China and India pollute recklessly, so why should we even bother trying to cut our own emissions? And why does Al Gore have such a big house anyway?

It's not a general discussion on pollution, it's about what people should do when there's a contagious disease speading around the world. If it makes you feel oh-so-superior to compare me to a global warming denier, go right ahead. I'm sure your holiness has never driven alone in a car.

I will admit I was wrong to say you should get a grip. What you need is a clue.

I guess even lefties are getting in on the manufactured gaffes now.

What Biden said is sensible and correct. It's a shame that even otherwise reasonable people like Benen are piling on. You're making us all look dumb, Steve.

Doesn't it have to go to 6 before it is, officially, a bona fide pandemic?

Ah, for the days, when one could only think of Roger Daltrey instead of health problems, when WHO was mentioned.

And, now back to a discussion of the mercury laden formerly pristine lakes in the Cascades from the filth floating across the Pacific from China. Don't eat any fish from those once magnificent lakes, nor from the toxic waste fisheries off Somalia. We fight the pirates, yet, we do nothing to stop the Mafia controlled toxic dumping which has killed the fishing industry. Shortstop is correct in stating there are many other health concerns facing this world.

Allan, come on. Your statement about public transit polluting was totally irrelevant. Of course buses, trains, etc. pollute. That they pollute considerably less than the number of cars that would be required to transport their passengers is not even remotely in question.

Look, I understand that some fears are more visceral and immediate than others. A couple of friends of mine, if they're reading this, are laughing their asses off because a few days ago I was earnestly telling them about my swine flu symptoms, which unfortunately arrived on the heels of my leprosy, brain tumor, spinal meningitis and recurring shoulder cancer. I know all about how the threat of serious disease can scare us.

But it's pretty much universally agreed by health experts that we're going to see more of these epidemic/pandemic scares, not fewer. Most of them will not pan out. We're going to have to learn how to balance our natural fears with our desires/needs to live normal lives, taking reasonable precautions but not freaking out before we need to. And we're also going to have to learn how to balance potential dangers like the swine flu against existing dangers -- like global warming -- that seem faraway and non-pressing.

I'm going across town now for a refinancing closing. I'm taking the bus, not the car, and I'm wearing gloves (admittedly not a hardship in this weather), not touching my face, and scrubbing up thoroughly on the other end of the trip. Should I need to sneeze or cough, I'll be doing it into my elbow with my head turned away from others if at all possible. You may feel that's an insufficient response to the threat; you may prefer to stay completely away from crowds or enclosed spaces. That's your right. But to accuse me of insufficient awareness for pointing out an actual, inarguable downside to masses of people eschewing public transit for their cars is pretty hyperdefensive.

I suppose the VP will be handing out samples of the new "swine flu" at the White House later today.

I've been told I'd better clarify my second paragraph at 12:16 in case anyone's feeling extra-literal: No, I do not have swine flu symptoms. Every time I read about a disease, I start imagining the symptoms, much like when you see a spider and then keep feeling one crawling on you. I was being self-deprecating about my own fear of illness and disease.

I just think the possible short term spike in CO2 emmissions might be outweighed in this instance by the need to prevent the spread of disease.
Ezra Klein also noted that Biden was essentially correct. He might look silly in retrospect if people restrict their human contact and it doesn't become too widespread, but not if it gets much worse.

I really dont get why Obama chose Biden as his VP. I also dont get why Biden is always putting his foot in his mouth like this. It's just weird that he has so little self-control.

Given that this is as bad as we've seen of Biden, one has to give him credit for watching his foot-in-mouth problem. Overall, and especially in comparison to his previous gaffes, this isn't really that bad.

I just read that the "common" flu kills an average of 36,000 each year in the U.S. So people need to keep things in perspective, as the Obama Administration would LIKE to do. But with an assclown like Biden around, its a bit more of a challenge. People should be more concerned that "the sheriff" is in charge of the stimulus oversight.

That's enough to make anyone feel ill.

i live in "flyover" country, not on the coasts, and I think that Biden's remarks are getting repeated, criticized etc is another example of the way in which those who use planes a lot (i.e. the cable news anchors/writers and Washington pols) are hyper attentive to anything having to do with planes and plane travel. It's very hard to figure out if this is a serious pandemic and we should be all thinking of taking some serious steps OR if there should be a real ratching down of the constant trotting out of government talking heads...

It's not considered a "pandemic" until it hits Phase 6. And all Phase 6 means is that there is human to human infection in more than one WHO region. It's not really that big of a deal in and of itself. But "pandemic" is a scary word, especially for those who don't bother looking up what the WHO defs of the phases are.

Maybe this info will help assist those who are freaking out:

"In four weeks, around 1,700 Americans could be infected with the disease, according to a model programmed by Dirk Brockmann, associate professor of engineering sciences and applied mathematics at Northwestern. About 100 of those cases would be in Chicago, Brockmann said. But Brockmann said his model, based on direct and indirect measures of human mobility, predicts the spread of the disease as if no interventions are put in place to slow its spread."

Assuming this worst case scenario, and assuming that the reported 6% mortality rate seen in MX holds in the US (unlikely), that gives us 119 deaths. Tragic for the families of those who die, of course, but a one in a million (ie, negligible) risk for everyone else.

As I said before, the good coming from this scare is that people are actually starting to do things like wash their hands before they eat and covering their mouths when they cough/sneeze. This is unheard of in Chicago. And though those behavior changes will matter little to my already negligible risk of getting the swine flu, it will have a non-negligible effect on me catching some other flu or a cold, and for that I am grateful.

another example of the way in which those who use planes a lot (i.e. the cable news anchors/writers and Washington pols) are hyper attentive to anything having to do with planes and plane travel.

It's also an example of how people who are between 30 and 60 yrs old (i.e. the cable news anchors/writers and Washington pols) are hyper attentive to anything that kills people who are between 30 and 60. If all the people killed in MX were children and the elderly, this would be seen as just another flu bug, and no one in the media would be paying any attention.

Damn, people sure are desperate to paint Biden as a "gaffe" machine. Avoid nonessential travel and crowds during a Level 5 pandemic? Oh noes, what a stupidhead thing to say! This hardly rises to the level of concern for anyone except the airline industry shills, but then I can't say any of his supposed "gaffes" do. It's as stupid as nattering about Michelle's fistbump.

In fact, I'm ready to put to pasture this tired, wingnut-driven word "gaffe" entirely, along with its cousin the verb "bash", which seems now to be used solely by braindead fake news pundits to trivialize criticism without engaging its substance.

I just think the possible short term spike in CO2 emmissions might be outweighed in this instance by the need to prevent the spread of disease.

You have it completely backwards, but I expect nothing less from humans.

I've read here and on TPM that this was a horible gaffe by Biden, but watching the clip I have to side with Biden here. This is just common-sense advice, which is exactly what the White House has given us repeatedly.

1. Don't fly to Mexico (or drive, or walk, although flying is more likely to get you to Mexico City and the flu hotzone while walking is more likely to get you a mild case of dysentery). Note that Lauer previously stated that the US government is *not* moving to curtail flights to Mexico (as though the only way to have people stop flying to Mexico is to turn completely isolationist and stick our heads in the sand).

2. Avoid confined spaces for lengthy periods of time, where you will be rebreathing expelled fluids from uncountable others' lungs. He is perhaps slightly extreme in cautioning against the subway, but compared to open-air mass transportation (buses, lightrail, above-ground trains, as well as shared vehicles), the risk of mass infection in a subway system is significant. Compared to elevators, which another poster mentioned above, subways are several orders of magnitude more likely to harbor disease both from an air recycling perspective (the air in an elevator gets refreshed downright constantly in comparison) and mass contamination perspective (a dozen people exposed to a vector in an elevator versus hundreds or thousands in a subway).

Compare this with the previous "panic" gaffe, where a politician told his wife to take as much money out of the banks as possible - and then told his constituents that that is the proper response to uncertainty in the financial sector - and the differences should be grossly apparent. Biden's advice is good for the individual as well as the whole (the only possible downside is that subways are denegrated and people choose one-person-per-vehicle instead). Biden's advice is completely in line with public pronouncements by the other adults in the public eye. Finally, Biden's advice is being given quite candidly to the nation when it is useful, rather than selfishly to his own family and only to the nation later.

Honestly, I expect better analysis from WM. Stop blindly echoing conservotard talking points!

A little more water for the panic fire from a Loyola student in Chicago who contracted the swine flu:

"It was a chore to get out of bed. I felt absolutely terrible. I feel like it still is the flu, but it's not so terrible that people should be freaking out the way they are."

Joe Biden not so inappropriate after all: CDC saying no one who feels ill should board airplanes.

The problem is not so much the severity of the flu as the possibility of mutation into something more severe as it continues to spread.

Joe Biden not so inappropriate after all: CDC saying no one who feels ill should board airplanes.

First, that is not what Biden said. Second, not boarding a plane when you're ill is standard advice anytime.

What I find frightening is how many people view what should be normal everyday public health behaviors as somehow extraordinary.