Being from Alabama, my first thought was: Seg Academies for California! Fifty years late, but who's counting?

I agree with this decision, actually. If you want to run a private school that caters to Christians, or whites, or left-handed people, or whatever, go for it. Steve's right that they shouldn't expect any government money, though.

No vouchers,

Exactly; any school can show good #s if they can choose who to admit and who to expell

And who doesn't think those girls are better off in their new school?

I wonder what the dynamic is between the girls, their parents and the school...

Did the court create a bright line against vouchers? With such a ruling, no taxpayer monies should ever find their ways to such discriminatory depositories! -Kevo

We already subsidize religious institutions by making donations to them tax-deductible.

If you can give $100 to your church and get $30 taken off of your federal and state taxes, the effect is the same as if the government matched your $70 contribution with a $30 check of their own.

Joe Buck hits the nail on the head. It's long past time to eliminate the religious tax exemption, particularly if we are going to allow church entities to legally practice discrimination.

Don't, however, discriminate and then ask the government to use tax dollars to subsidize the institution.

Yeah, well, good luck with that - not that I disagree, mind, but I think that this is just a first example of the pushback against anti-gay antidiscrimination rules: and the flipside of the "religious freedom" exceptions being included in several recent gay marriage laws in various states.

Once the principle of being able to discriminate on "religious" grounds in enshrined in the law, it's a given that Organized Religion (Big God) will jump on any opportunity to do so: and I don't have a lot of confidence that our judiciary is going to stand up for any principle of true secularism (even where government money is involved).

Especially when it will be framed as an Appeal To Authority: "God's Holy Commandments vs. the State Human Rights Board" or whatever. Not good news.

Wait -- _social_organizations_ can give diplomas now, in California?

The christian college I was forced to attend grudgingly desegregated in 1968 rather than loose federal money. Isn't this the same sort of thing?

What's the legal principle that distinguishes between forcing a religious school to tolerate or even endorse behavior it exists to proscribe as sinful, and forcing a church to recognize or even perform marriages that its doctrine prohibits, e.g., those of divorced people, same sex unions, etc?

If the government is powerful enough to tax a private school out of business because it teaches homosexuality is wrong, doesn't it also have the power to tax out of business any church that won't perform EVERY marriage that is allowed by the law, but banned by that faith?

Gonna pick and choose? Who's first, second, third on your list?

Hell, if you're okay with a little anti-religious policy: why not force every Catholic hospital to close its doors because they won't perform abortions? Do the math, too.

You guys gonna put up the money to replace all those inner city emergency rooms? And for the guy who thinks that parochial schools are good because they can expel bad students: where are you going to get the dough to replace the only decent elementary schools in Baltimore?

So, let me get this straight: a middle-aged man got himself a job which he used to haul young women into his office, apparently without their having access to legal counsel, their parents, or each other's testimony, and then invited himself to ask them questions about the most intimate aspects of their lives? Uh huh.

forcing a church to recognize or even perform marriages that its doctrine prohibits, e.g., those of divorced people, same sex unions, etc?

They're not being forced to do anything. They're just being told that if they want to discriminate on bigoted grounds, they can pay the same tax rates as everybody else.

If the government is powerful enough to tax a private school out of business

So paying the same rates as everybody else is being "taxed out of business"? They must have pretty low profit margins.

Wrong argument, right answer and Steve had the right argument.

The commenters followed up with the natural conclusion.

Tax deductibility fosters religious views. This is unconstitutional. Perhaps one could make it kosher by including philosophies that are not supernatural. Heritage Foundation, GreenPeace, the ACLU, the NRA, the SEIU, etc.

Because this one kind of non-business group discusses the supernatural, they pay less tax? Why?

"No more Vouchers"...

and uh,,, Pay some Taxes for the right to be a bunch of snots.

I had a next-door neighbor who taught at the Catholic school down the street.

Why didn't she teach in the public schools? She had a felony DUI.

If private schools take vouchers, how long is it gonna take some showboating legislator to add an amendment that forbids voucher-funded schools from having felons teach? Who is gonna vote against the amendment?

The next thing that will happen is that we'll find that a large number of private school teachers have felony convictions of one sort or another.

That's the business model of private schools. They cut corners that public schools can't cut. That's why they cost less.

If you give private schools public money, the ability to cut corners is gonna go away. Private schools will start to be more like public schools, including costing closer to public schools.

Folks, strive to focus on THIS planet -- you know, the one with the yellow sun and the occasionally blue sky?

While there may be some private schools, particularly the elite academy sorts of places, that make money, the major parochial school systems, e.g., the only decent elementary schools in Baltimore, are hardly "profit centers". They lose money. They are run as charities. Every few nickels more in cost is a few more kids they can't teach.

Tooweary, among others, thinks that a practice that has developed over 200 years is unConstitutional. Go make the case -- and good luck, because it's been tried before: the tax exempt status of churches in general, including parochial schools, is not exactly new Constitutional law. It's been upheld repeatedly since at least the Civil War.

Who's delusional?

It's a basic premise of parochial schools that they literally indoctrinate: that's their purpose. (And no, it's not unconstitutional that they're not taxed, except for their purely commercial aspect, e.g., withholding, etc. Nice try.)

What you guys want to do is SUBVERT that Constitutionally-protected religious exercise. And yeah, it would put most of these schools out of business -- they're barely making it now, so a 20-30% hike in costs would do 'em in.

There are lots of cases, yanno: a single woman who teaches at a Catholic school gets pregnant -- and gets fired. She sues for discrimination -- and the courts tell her she's SOL: it's a RELIGIOUS school, and so yeah -- they CAN fire her for failing to exemplify the doctrines that are the purpose of the school.

A couple kids courageously come out as gay in high school? More power to 'em -- but they quite literally don't belong in a private school that exists to teach that their orientation is immoral.

And "We, the People" have never given the government the power to change that. A government that IS that powerful, is also powerful enough to pick and choose which religions are abolished.

LOL -- and let's face it, nothing would make you happier: y'all have a list of religions you don't like, in descending order.

You may not like the religious doctrines taught at any particular denomination (for example, the Saudi-funded schools throughout the US that don't show Israel on their maps), but they ARE protected by the US Constitution.

I'm not saying that there isn't legit grounds, now and again, to question a denomination's tax status, e.g., over racist exclusions. I'd have been more impressed if folks had gone after the Mormons right after 1965, but going after Bob Jones University in the early 80s was fine with me.

I'm just noting how easy you find it to pry a plank out of the Constitution whenever it suits you.

And I'm also noting that if the US government DID follow your bigoted logic, you'd put many religious institutions out of business, including all Catholic hospitals, since they will not prescribe contraception nor perform abortions. I asked for a legal principle that would allow what you want -- forcing a school out of business because they teach that X is wrong -- which would not also do lots of stuff you lack the courage of your convictions to admit.

So I'm asking if you're ready to walk the walk, not just talk the talk: ever looked at the elementary school system in Baltimore? Think it'd be better off without Catholic schools?

How about all those inner city emergency rooms at places named St. Vincent's and St Paul's? How long d'ya figure they'd stay open if their owner was taxed like it was a chain of hardware stores?

And they'd close TOMORROW if they had to perform every medical and surgical procedure that is legal ... and, in fact, Constitutionally protected.

So I was asking a couple practical questions: you guys ready to step up for the elementary school kids of Baltimore? For anybody hit by a bus in a whole lot of American cities, where a Catholic hospital emergency room is your first, best hope?

Makes me wonder what other planks you'd pry out of the Constitution -- and if you've ever had the first thought of the practical consequences of what you want.

As a public HS teacher I have nothing against private schools. They serve a purpose. And *some* probably do a better job of educating *some* students than the public schools do.

That said, I'm utterly opposed to vouchers in any form unless the private schools accepting them agree to comply with ALL of the laws and regulations that apply to public schools. You want public education dollars? Fine. Then you must comply with the curriculum requirements of public schools, the NCLB high-stakes testing requirements, the teacher certification requirements, the special ed requirements, the Title 9 requirements, AND, the non-discrimination requirements. I would be willing to bet that you'll not find a single public school anywhere in the country willing to accept vouchers under those terms. Not one.

For that matter, I've never seen the logic of paying for vouchers out of existing education funds. If public and private schools are separate then no reason at all why vouchers need to come out of public school funds. Cut oil company subsidies, or farm subsidies, or highway funds, or whatever and use that money for your voucher program. Don't rob the public schools.

How about all those inner city emergency rooms at places named St. Vincent's and St Paul's? How long d'ya figure they'd stay open if their owner was taxed like it was a chain of hardware stores?

If you're talking about Federal taxes, probably forever. The Federal government taxes profits not revenues. I doubt many inner city Catholic hospitals are turning much of a profit these days, if they ever have. Certain high-end non-profit hospitals, like say the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale AZ probably turn a profit. But the generic inner-city Catholic hospital? I doubt it. For that matter, most churches would owe no Federal taxes either even if they lost their tax exempt status. Where it would hurt them is in their donations. Losing tax exempt status would mean that donors to churches and hospitals would no longer be able to write off their donations. That would probably be a much bigger deal for churches than hospitals.

Where hospitals and churches do skate by on the public dole is with respect to local property taxes that fund things like fire and police protection. Since property taxes are not based income everyone pays equally, except of course for religious and governmental institutions.

As a Lutheran, I felt the need to do some research on California Lutheran High School. I found that it is run through the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) and something called the Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS), which I had never heard of. These groups are both very, very conservative and small. WELS has 390K members and ESL only 21K.

In comparison, the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (conservative, but less so than WELS and ELS) has 2.4 million members and the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), the most progressive Lutheran group in America, has 4.7 million members. I am a member of the latter. We are still, as a body, struggling with some social issues, but we're pretty progressive, though of course there are some members and some churches that are more conservative.

BTW, evangelical is not a "dirty word", just means in agreement with the Gospel. It's a shame the religious right have sullied it.

Thanks for letting me clear this up, both for myself and for you all.

Make sure they pay their full share of property taxes too. No exemptions.

"It's simple, really. If a private school wants to discriminate, fine. I don't like it, but it's a private religious entity. Don't, however, discriminate and then ask the government to use tax dollars to subsidize the institution."

I agree. Nor should such schools take vouchers if they wish to remain a private institution with a straight face. They're should be vouchers period.