I'm really sorry Catholics , but where were you and all your "protests" as we snuffed out countless Iraqi and American military lives in a trumped up war. Oh I see it was the patriotic thing to do. Or how about those other 7 children that are killed by guns every - out of the womb so they don't count. Selective enforcement of "right to life" just don't cut it.

Another way to describe this appearance would be to say that BO wiped the floor with these assholes, enjoyed doing it, and came off looking better than they ever could. Once again, this guy proves to me that he knows more about what he's doing than I do. Remarkable.

Any pro-lifer who is pro-Iraq War can go f**k themselves.

Obama Fu in action.

Imagine GWBush addressing a room full of people who disagree with him-- let's say a NARAL meeting --and showing that level of class.

Class? Hell, I can't even imagine him entering the room . . .

"I'm really sorry Catholics..."

Fact:
The Catholic Church has spoken out against the war in Iraq in the person of both popes who have served in the papacy during it, both publicly and to Bush specifically.

As George Carlin noted, most so-called pro-lifers are pro-death penalty, anti-gun control, + pro-death squad; in short, they're pro-their right to decide who lives + who dies.

-Z

It seems that,unlike Barak Obama, his supporters are incapable of recognition of legitimate differences. Just read the above for examples.

second what zorro said, and adding that the most vehement "pro-lifers" are completely uninterested in "reducing the number of abortions." if they were, they wouldn't also oppose comprehensive sex ed and contraception.
they're not pro-life... they're anti-sex.

From the White House's silence these last several weeks as the controversy at ND percolated you just knew that the President was preparing this to be another "teaching moment" in which the message of reconciliation and healing would be paramount. He did not disappoint.

I lectured at Sunday mass yesterday and was struck by the appropriatness of the first reading, from the Acts of the Apostles, in which Peter preaches reconciliation with the Roman soldier Cornelius. The priest in his Homily struck a similar note of getting beyond our own sectarian tribes and finding points of common ground. While he did not mention the readings directly, Obama is too good a community organizer not to have had them in the back of his mind. Here is the reading:

When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."

And Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality,
but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.

For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

If you can call bronze-age superstition and tribal bigotry legitimate...

"President Obama has come to Notre Dame, though he knows well that we are fully supportive of Church teaching on the sanctity of human life...
George W. Bush delivered the 2001 commencement address to Notre Dame. As Texas governor, Bush had presided over 152 executions - more than any governor in recent history. Despite that, there was no hue and cry over the appropriateness of having Bush as the speaker.
It would be easy to call many of the anti-abortion advocates who invoke "the sanctity of human life" hypocrites. Instead I'll just say that they've neglected to explain that, for them, life begins at conception and ends at birth.

Zorro--you are wrong.

Catholics are anti-death penalty, anti-War, anti-abortion, and anti-"mercy-killing." In short, they are consistently pro-Life in all its aspects.
Talk about creating monsters, Obama's supporters, unlike him, are apparently incapable of objectivity toward anyone who disagrees with them. At least, this is the case of those who have spoken thus far.

ditto what impartial said. President Obama specifically asked that people of good faith not debate caricatures of the "other" side. That some people on the "other" side of any issue, are in fact, caricatures of themselves is not the point. Most people are probably not.

Admittedly, the repuglican base is largely a caricature of itself. Catholics, ont eh other hand, are not.

Catholics are anti-death penalty, anti-War, anti-abortion, and anti-"mercy-killing." In short, they are consistently pro-Life in all its aspects.

Absolutely true. Which is why it's so disappointing that the church has devoted hundreds of times as much effort protesting abortion than it has to protesting capital punishment and war. In fact, it's so quiet about it that most non-Catholics don't even realize the church's stand on these issues. Hmmm.

Evangelicals at least have the excuse that most of their churches don't teach that capital punishment is wrong. Catholics, not so much.

Catholics are anti-death penalty, anti-War, anti-abortion, and anti-"mercy-killing." In short, they are consistently pro-Life in all its aspects.

And as other posters have rightly noted, the protesters were conspicuously absent when Bush--pro-war of choice, pro-torture, and very pro-death penalty-- was invited to speak there.
I guess they aren't as passionate about certain church teachings as others. You can't ignore the facts.

Impartial, you are not. Why did the bishop of that part of Indiana refuse to attend, but happily attended the commencement where Bush spoke? Yes, official church doctrine truly embraces the White Cloak worldview. But too often, politics trumps religion. John R. and Z paint Catholics and pro-lifers with too broad a brush. And so does Impartial. As a Catholic, I can be proud that there is no greater charitable organization on earth and that for all its flaws, and ugly history, the Catholic faith is at its heart beautiful. As a liberal, I know that the ultra conservatives within the faith often high jack it to push their narrow agendas. But there is hope. More than 2/3 of Catholics approved of Obama's visit to Notre Dame. Of course, I didn't. Not for religious reasons. I'm a Georgetown fan. Go Hoyas!

impartial,

Where was the Catholic Church during the run-up to Iraq 2003?

It seems I read more anti-war screeds from rabbis and atheists then from the Catholic Church. Where were the protests?

Catholics are anti-death penalty, anti-War, anti-abortion, and anti-"mercy-killing." In short, they are consistently pro-Life in all its aspects.

Your statement is much broader than Zorro's and at least as likely to be incorrect in any individual instance. How does your description of Catholics apply to Pat Buchanan for instance? I happen to have gone to the same Jesuit High School that all of the Buchanans attend and I am quite well acquainted with the sort of right wing Catholicism that Zorro is complaining about. I am just as well acquainted with the sort of social justice oriented liberalism of many Catholics. Catholic individuals, like individual in most every other group, have a complex range of opinions, some of which are contradictory. That doesn't mean that the sort of pro-life, pro death penalty individuals don't exist or are some sort of caricature. Far from it.

Everyone loves to attack the Catholic Church, whether they be far-right Evangelicals or far-left liberals.

Of course, no one complains about the Catholic Church when they are on the receiving end of their charities, which of course, are the largest private charities in the US.

So the hand that clasped Hugo Chavez's has also now clasped the hand of Fr. John Jenkins and Binyamin Netanyahu.

Oy vey, I have a headache. Is Obama talking to people he agrees with or disagrees with?

Open hearts. Open minds. Fair-minded words.

The protests are absurd, and I'm a Catholic. The notion that Catholic doctrine should be imposed on the entire country is ridiculous, we don't need an American Taliban.

As mentioned, where were the Catholic protests against Bush? Obama is being protested because abortion is against Catholic doctrine? So is divorce. Do these people also protest speakers who think divorce should be legal?

This is pure politics, nothing more. Obama showed his class and intellect.

"second what zorro said, and adding that the most vehement "pro-lifers" are completely uninterested in "reducing the number of abortions." if they were, they wouldn't also oppose comprehensive sex ed and contraception. they're not pro-life... they're anti-sex."

I think a lot of people secretly get off on seeing others suffer the consequences of their actions. If a teen is going to ignore abstinence education, they need to suffer -- they shouldn't be able to avoid the consequences by using birth control or having an abortion! HA! Your life is ruined, YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO US!

As mentioned, where were the Catholic protests against Bush? Obama is being protested because abortion is against Catholic doctrine? So is divorce. Do these people also protest speakers who think divorce should be legal?

Divorce isn't the right one to use because it doesn't involve "human life" and the rules for divorce is specifically tied to Catholics (while rules about sanctity of life are expected to be universal and not just tied to believers).

The better counter example is the death penalty - which the Catholic Church has been opposed to for years and also steps into the sanctity of life issue. Another good one is unjust war - which the Catholic Church has labelled the Iraq War and which they have also issued edicts about.

And I do see a good number of Catholic protesters at anti-war rallies and at anti-death penalty rallies. The trick is that they get tarred as "Dirty F'ing Hippies" and ignored - just like all the other DFHs. And you rarely see the hierarchy get behind an anti-war rally or get heavily into anti-death penalty work. If a bishop is involved it is usually as a personal expression of his own politics and not as a representative of the Church. Which is very disappointing given how much effort the Church puts into its anti-abortion politics in this country. If they put half as much effort into the anti-death penalty movement there would probably be many more states where the death penalty is outlawed right now.

It's very nice of Obama's opponents to play to his strengths like this. They consistently provide him opportunities to look like an adult surrounded by spoiled, unruly children.

Argue with him all you want on policy, but you must admire Obama's blessed ability to model civil discourse and honest debate to a public long-bereft of such an example.

"...he addressed the debate over abortion with relish."

What, no Grey Poupon?

Kill them (metaphorically speaking) with love. Amazing how often this works, and it drives the opposition apoplectic.

I don't understand why this Obama kid agreed to go to Notre Dame anyway. Why doesn't he stick to small gatherings at which all attendees are screened for loyalty? Guy must not be too bright.

You know even I know that a lot of Catholics ARE against the Iraq war and the death penalty. You shouldn't equate Catholics with Evangelical Christianists.

In retrospect I think we were all punked by the MSM , playing the few protesters in a loop. Certainly got us all riled up now didn't it. There are fringe players in every religion and it makes for good TEEVEE copy , used by both sides. Me personally - all religion is a crock ...just a means to justify your moral outrage on________subject DuJour

The Bishops and the Right To Life.

While Bishops criticize the president for being unwilling "to hold human life as sacred," an examination of the United States Catholic Conference of Bishop's (USCCB) public positions in two historic legal cases makes clear that that the USCCB itself is unwilling to "hold human life as sacred" when the life belongs to a pregnant woman.

Where is that concern for "life" when it's already-born Palestinian children having their bodies burned by white phosphorus? ...**crickets**...

I read the whole speech and it is beautiful. Now I want to see him give it. Is there any chance of that? Youtube? Democracy Now? Anybody?

John Cole over at Balloon-Juice has it embedded. Well worth watching

Mari....also at msnbc.com. Enjoy. It brought me tears of appreciation and joy several times.