Sorry, this about a different subject, I urge all who are regulars on this website to join in on Daily Kos this morning, there is a call from Dr Howard Dean there regarding health care and the conservative push to stop it, it gives numbers to phone,please call and fax these people!

Typo in 2nd last para when should be what

The only thing we would learn from these memos is whether 1) Republicans believe the CIA for the time being or 2) Democrats do.

I am so confused.

My idol Mark Levin and Senator Carl Levin don't pronounce their names the same way.

Shouldn't we force them to agree? This is America. We don't want no stinkin' foreign names to creep into our country!!!!!!

"These claims have gone almost entirely unchallenged, due to the classified nature of the documents," Greg explained. "You'd think that a contrary claim from a well-respected Senator who has also seen the docs would merit a few passing mentions, too."

Well, you'd think that the news media would do its job. Unless you actually pay attention to the news media.

Don't know how Cheney kept us safe, but, kudos must be given to various draft boards for keeping our GIs safe from being, accidentally, shot by Cheney in basic training.

...the documents in question don't say what Cheney thinks they say.

There you go again...misunderestimating the dark lord. Cheney is a bright guy -- MALEVOLENT as all get-out, but bright -- and he knows what the documents say and don't say. He also knows that they are probably properly classified as secret in this case, and there isn't a snowball's chance in Dick Cheney's front parlor, that they will be declassified. Therefore he is free to make whatever claims he wishes about what they say and it will never be proven, one way or the other.

More importantly, if the documents are declassified for reasons that could be interpreted as political, and shown to have an adverse effect on national security, nobody will note that they prove Dick Cheney lied. The right wing echo chamber will ramp up a campaign accusing Obama of putting political gain ahead of national security. Nevermind that Cheney is a past master of doing exactly that. It is the Dems who are thought to be soft on national security, so the accusations will find fertile ground to take root.

It is a win/win situation for Cheney. He can either lie with impunity or, if called out with the real evidence he is calling for, open Obama up to relentless attack for jeopardizing national security for political gain.

One question is always in the back of my mind when Cheney makes any claims, when was he ever correct in any statements he made? I know there must be one, but I can't think of it.

majun, let us be clear about something: when someone's thinking is consistently stupid, they cannot be rightly labelled as "bright." "bright" people demonstrate their brightness by saying and doing smart things, something that cheney has never done.

effective? yes. but bright? not a chance.

Steve Benen quoted Greg Sargent: "You'd think that a contrary claim from a well-respected Senator who has also seen the docs would merit a few passing mentions, too."

You might think that if you are an oblivious liberal blogger who labors under the delusion that the handful of giant corporations that own virtually all of the mass media in the USA are in the business of impartially informing and educating the American people as a public service, out of the goodness of their hearts and their idealistic devotion to high journalistic standards.

IF, and it's a BIG "IF", there were proof anywhere that 'torture by Dick' worked (aka "Dick Torture" which actually may work in an entirely different context, but that's for a different blog), which is irrelevant anyway, but IF such documentation existed, it would have been touted by the 'W' misadminstration a long, long time ago as evidence of how their EIT's are working and just how 'safe' they are keeping us. Just Cheney/Rove, et al leaked everything else. Just ask the 5000 dead servicemen, or the 10's of thousands of permanently disabled vets with arms, legs and chunks of their faces missing how safe the nation is now for Haliburton and Blackwater and KBR. Dick the Torturer must be proud. His tiny black heart weeps with joy as we speak. Btw, isn't torture a form of terrorism? Prosecute the terrorist bastard, and his little dog too!

I just scanned both the NYT and WaPo websites. Not even a mention of Levin's speech.

That's just pathetic.

But let the Dick or his insufferable daughter utter one word about anything, and it will be on their front pages in banner headlines.

If declassification of the torure memos was so important to "President" Cheney, why didn't he declassify them while he was in office? Not only didn't he move to declassify the memos, he scoffed at the notion, and deemd the memos to be unimportamt.

It would be nice if we had a news media that could do the work to point that out.

Since Levin is so sure Cheney is wrong about the still classified memos, why not release them ? Doesn't seem to compute.

So, Mike K, if the memos were so important to the Bushies, why didn't they declassify them before they left?

Maybe Mr. Cheney knows there are truly classified information on them, and therefore knows that the Obama Admin will not release them. So he looks like a hero for asking for "transparency" (which even you, Mike, should scoff at the notion of Cheney asking for transparency in anything), all the while knowing release will never happen.

Cheney is the guy who made himself VP while serving on the VP search committee.

He can apparently get away with absolutely everything, no matter what the "left" says.

He is a very powerful world-wide war-profiteer. We had better be careful how we trash him...he might tell us all to Go F**k ourselves.

At this point.... I vouch for total and absolute media blackouts of anything he says.

It won't happen ofcourse; wishful thinking on my part.

The thing we forget is his vast wealth and war profitting buddies. You don't mess with that kind of clout.

(oh yeah...don't forget his energy giant buddies)

I continue to be disgusted, embarrassed, and ashamed of being an American!

I believe that the German people of the 30's & 40's have a level of responsibility for the acts of their leaders.

I believe that the Japanese people of the 30's & 40's have a level of responsibility for the acts their leaders allowed to take place in Korea, China, southeast Asia and the Asian Pacific.

I believe that the American people of today have a level of responsibility for the acts that their leaders have done in Iraq, Guantanamo and throughout the world during their 'war on terror'.

We can have a discussion about what that level of responsibility is, but we cannot claim to have none!

The recent discussions about the pictures that Obama was going to release and is now fighting to keep from being released have had a media focus on them including 'depictions' of rape and sodomy. That is fiction that can no longer be maintained. They are not depictions, they are real photos of rape & sodomy.

Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba — who conducted the Abu Ghraib investigation — confirmed the photographs' authenticity to the Telegraph, telling the paper that they "show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency."

Until the criminal acts of the Bush (and now Obama?) administrations are investigated and prosecuted as appropriate, there is a stain on the Amerikan public that will not go away. Following the Japanese example of denying the acts took place for decades will not erase the stain.

Cheney's insistence that Obama release the intelligence that proves torture has saved American lives is a genius stroke for the Republican party.

Since there is no intelligence proving this point, Obama can't release it. He can release everything there is to the contrary and all Cheney has to do is say, "Why won't you released the intelligence in support of torture?" To Republicans this is the same thing as showing them original documents proving torture has saved the lives of three million innocent Americans. So, when Obama doesn't cough up the nonexistent intelligence, well he's a lying socialist!

Levin spoke last night.

Not a month ago, when Cheney first began spewing his filth, and the opportunity presented itself to repudiate his Big Lies, and when he might have squared off with Cheney news cycle for news cycle.

Last night.

So, Dick, if torture was so effective and you have documents purporting to state that, why did you not declassify them 6 months ago? Better yet, why did you stop using those "techniques" two or more years ago?

Do you want American's to die in a terrorist attack? I thought torture was keeping us safe...so why stop doing it?

So now we have Senator Levin and also General Petraeus challenging the ubitquitous Cheneyspeak.
Maybe we won't have to be affronted with the former vice president on this week's Sunday news shows?

Petraeus Interview:

"Question: So is sending this signal that we're not going to use these kind of techniques anymore, what kind of impact does this have on people who do us harm in the field that you operate in?

Gen. Petraeus: Well, actually what I would ask is, "Does that not take away from our enemies a tool which again have beaten us around the head and shoulders in the court of public opinion?" When we have taken steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions we rightly have been criticized, so as we move forward I think it's important to again live our values, to live the agreements that we have made in the international justice arena and to practice those. "

Since the documents are classified (notice Levin didn't give details) the only way Cheney can argue this with current officials is in secret.

9/11 was an important time in American history and we should seek to understand that time, our leaders and how we responded.

What position does/did Liz Cheney hold that would allow her to read these "Classified" documents if not, under what law was the Vice-President allowed to discuss or show them to her?