I wander who O'Reilly's Brown shirts are gonna kill next.

O'Reilly loves to brag about how influential he is, but here he uses the excuse that he just throws opinions out there. The problem with this argument is that he, Limbaugh and many other rightwing pundits are not making reasoned arguments. They are stirring emotions with insincere arguments. They are, to use the metaphor, yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. And they are preying on the vulnerable, just as al Qaeda, the Moonies and other religious sects do.

"the 60,000 fetuses who will never become American citizens."

The late-term abortions performed by Tiller were on fetuses that were either dead, dying or doomed. They would nevere have "become American citizens" in any meaningful sense of the word citizenship.

And what about the women, American citizens all, who would have died if the abortion had not been performed. Did they lose their citizenship when they became pregnant.

O'Reilly is inciting terrorism. It may be protected speech, but let's call it what it is.

Okay, let's say O'Reilly's frequent inflammatory remarks against Dr. Tiller had nothing to do with the assassination. Let's say also the same about Glen Beck's and other rightwing extremists' paranoid calls for action against our current government and accept that words do not in any way encourage violence. Why then, do law enforcement officials often worry about "copycat" murders of highly publicized murders, say, like Dr. Tiller's?

If the situation was exactly the same, except it was Keith Olbermann who said those things and not O'Reilly, you know all of the Right Wing would be calling to have Olbermann hung in the public square.

I really, really hope that Dr. Tiller's family will sue this bastard. It'd be worth their while- talk about your deep pockets. Take every penny this son of a bitch has "earned" with his obscene hatefulness.

Can we please stop playing on these people's field by giving them the ridiculous and offensive monniker "pro-life?" The immediate implication is that anyone else is "anti-life."

The term we should use is "abortion prohibitionists." This is a descriptive, unemotional rendering of what they want to do, i.e. make abortion illegal. I'm not particularly fond of "pro-choice" either; I call myself a supporter of legal abortion.

It's always about O'Reilly. Who he hates, who's persecuting him, building himself up by putting others down, all the while extolling how virtuous and magnanimous he is. There is nothing but O'Reilly.

If the situation was exactly the same, except it was Keith Olbermann who said those things and not O'Reilly, you know all of the Right Wing would be calling to have Olbermann hung in the public square.

Not really. Olbermann has lashed out against the Iraq war and the military (aka, the torturers) for years. Not once has the right blamed Olbermann when a leftist attacked a military veteran.

Yesterday, a leftist assassinated one officer and wounded another at a military recruiting station in Arkansas.

There has been no, repeat no, national coverage on this, much less any right-wing calls for Olbermann to be tried as a co-conspirator.

And a special award goes to Rufus for being the perfect exemplar of the right's mental and moral degeneracy.

Rufus, that was likely a gang-related shooting and the victims were not Officers. They were PFCs fresh out of basic, probably joined up to get out from under something, then the Army unwittingly sent them right back to where they were trying to get away from as part of an end-of-FY-recruiting drive. A drive-by shooting with an assault rifle, committed by a prison convert? That doesn't scream militant, that screams gang-banger.

There is a hard core/corps of haters out there, not terribly bright and certainly not open to dialog of any kind. They Know what they Know (having 'learned' it from limbaugh et al), but suffer from a deep -and unrecognized- sense of inferiority.("I ain't much, but at least I ain't Black/Jew/Yankee" was their mantra in the pre-Hate Radio era)

Because of that largely unrecognized sense of inferiority thay need their daily dose of reenforcement from o'reilly, beck, malkin, etc.

Sponsors know this, and pay for those listeners.

Next time you stumble across one of these hate mongers, check out who the sponsors, and what products they are peddling to that narrow, but loyal band of listeners.

Probaly a term paper in there, somewhere. . .

Suppose someone had assassinated a member of the Bush Administration. O'Reilly wouldn't have paused a breath before condemning every Democrat alive for fostering the "culture of hate" that led to it.

I heard an interview on NPR years ago with a white supremacist Christian who reconciled his evil as being divinely inspired. He said, "I hate non-white people with a perfect hate that is a gift from God."

This type of brainwashing is the result of precisely the same scare language O'Reilly and Limbaugh and Coulter repeat in order to smooth out the brains of these weak-minded people. Their followers have proven again and again that they cannot think for themselves.

And as for comparing Tiller to Hitler — this is profoundly disturbing. To my knowledge, Tiller never attempted to inspire anyone to break with reason or ideology to murder someone. Can O'Reilly, as a mouthpiece for the most extreme factions of conservative America, make the same claim? Or is he twisting so-called "Christian values" with rabid right-wing rhetoric in order to nurture this perfect hate in more and more people?

Rufus, that was likely a gang-related shooting and the victims were not Officers...A drive-by shooting with an assault rifle, committed by a prison convert? That doesn't scream militant, that screams gang-banger.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-06-01-army-recruiter-killed_N.htm?csp=34

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7730637&page=1

I have yet to hear one media outlet express outrage at this attack. They simply don't care when leftist Muslims terrorists, spurred on by a media who equates our soldiers with torturers, assassinate our soldiers in our homeland.

This is the second story of black Muslim converts planning attacks on the Homeland. You'd think this was the beginning of a pattern. Something that might be highlighted in a DHS piece.

No, we have to worry about military veterans and Ron Paul supporters...

Yesterday, a leftist assassinated one officer and wounded another at a military recruiting station in Arkansas.There has been no, repeat no, national coverage on this

Really? Then why did I see it on the Today Show this morning? Also, why are there nearly a thousand news articles on it?

I've often wondered, and I think DAY explained it to some degree for me, why it is that O'Reilly has in the past and continues to maintain his highest ratings for viewers. Are there really that many people out there that like what this clown has to say? I suppose there are. I'd imagine that most people who aren't watching O'Reilly are doing something else, such as surfing the web, watching movies on DVD/HBO or some such, or something else. But the fact that O'Reilly consistently--night after night--brings in those numbers of viewers is kind of chilling, I think, especially as his kind of schtick is emblematic of the Bush Administration's "us vs. them" mentality and denigration of all things they defined as not sufficiently 'patriotic.'

You'll excuse me if I take a wait-and-see attitude. Indications from Little Rock are that they authorities are leaning the way I am and investigating it as such. They have the guy, and he is going to prison for the rest of his life. Let's see where the investigation takes us before we assign blame.

On the other hand, Roeder's affiliations were well known and he was arrested with bomb-making materials in the 90s, was a militia wacko and had contact info in his car when he was arrested. We also have a history of right wing domestic terrorism perpetrated by a group of Army buddies.

Reality, liberal bias, blah, blah, blah...

Are there really that many people out there that like what this clown has to say?

Yes. There are too many people for whom stoking a constant rage and sense of victimhood is a full-time hobby. Cf. Rufus, a poster of many handles, above.

I have yet to hear one media outlet express outrage at this attack. They simply don't care when leftist Muslims terrorists, spurred on by a media who equates our soldiers with torturers, assassinate our soldiers in our homeland.

Well, the Today Show called the murder an act of terrorism. I would say that's pretty strong language and something I haven't heard said about the Tiller murder.

But, Dufus, you consider Muslim radicals to be leftist? I suppose Osama Bin Laden is just another baby-aborting eco-nut in your book? Wow. No wonder why the brainwashed dittoheads hate the rest of America so much.

Rufus said:
I have yet to hear one media outlet express outrage at this attack. They simply don't care when leftist Muslims terrorists, spurred on by a media who equates our soldiers with torturers, assassinate our soldiers in our homeland.

Wait . . . a religious extremist who (presumably) wants to replace secular law with religious law is a leftist?

I thought we leftists were all Godless Commies.

Rufus,

To my knowledge O'Reilly is not a contributor to ABC News or USA Today. Nor are Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, or any of the right-wing noise machine folks. The incident happened yesterday. The media doesn't seem to be shying away from the fact that the perp is a recent convert to Islam. It'll take a day or two for "the leader of the Republican Party" and his ilk to start making the connection between this killing and a vast left-wing conspiracy.

But, Rufus, it will happen. You've already made the connection. Fox News can't be far behind. Will you be here tomorrow to defend them?

Indications from Little Rock are that they authorities are leaning the way I am and investigating it as such.

Wrong again. He's the subject of an FBI investigation - not for gangbanging or any other gang-related activities - but for his travel to Yemen and other terrorist-related activities.

Now why isn't the DHS talking about black Muslim converts and the threats they pose?

There are too many people for whom stoking a constant rage and sense of victimhood is a full-time hobby

Liberals never do that.

rufus, are you trying to defend O'Liely?

I'm not sure how pertinent this comment is to the thread, but I'm stunned that I have heard almost no discussion of the fact that Tiller was gunned down in his church as he was handing out the Sunday morning bulletin.

He was gunned down in his church!

I don't care if you're left, right, center, God-fearing, agnostic, or atheist; the fact that this shooting took place in a church before the Sunday morning service just absolutely shocks me. I've long known that "life" is just a marketing term for the "pro-life" crowd, but I thought they would still respect the sanctity of a church--that's a place that's supposed to offer sanctuary, protection, and solace. The fact that someone has turned a church--and this is what, the third time in just months?--into just another crime scene is unfathomable to me.

And to bring O'Reilly back into this, I don't think he mentioned that aspect of this murder on his show last night.

Slightly OT: Last night, when Rachel Maddow had Frank Schaeffer on, did it seem like he was saying that there are no major "Pro-life" groups which aren't privately advocating the death of abortion doctors? Because it sure sounded like that, to me.

There has been no, repeat no, national coverage on this...

As he cites--in the same comment--a USA Today report in an attempt to make his point.

Wasn't there a movie about the assination of George Bush? And some sort of "art work" with Bush being targeted? There are few people who approve of late term abortions, but this Tiller guy is being touted as some sort of martyr. The nut should not have murdered him, but the reaction is way over the top.

Sorry, it's too early on the west coast. By "death", I obviously meant "murder".

how long to you think it will be before some zealot decides that guns are too inefficient and decides to strap on a suicide bomb for his next clinic visit?
not looking forward to it, but i fear it's inevitable.

I'm thinking of the radio broadcasts that incited the murder of tens of thousands in Rwanda, and I the only distinction I see between those broadcasts and O'Reilly's screeds against Dr. Tiller is scale of the target.

LD, there has been some discussion on blogs -- probably not in the MSM -- on the point that murdering this guy in a church is crossing a line the most violent of the anti-abortion rights crowd previously wouldn't step over. Whether that's a peculiarity of Roeder's or yet another sign of how out of control the fringe right's anger is getting, I can't say.

i>how long to you think it will be before some zealot decides that guns are too inefficient and decides to strap on a suicide bomb for his next clinic visit?

My memory's a little hazy, but these groups routinely bombed abortion cliincs back in the late 70's. Seems like there may have been a suicide bombing, but i can't remember for sure.

rufus, are you trying to defend O'Liely?

Not at all. I can't stand O'Reilly either. He's a populist scumbag who just wants ratings. Before he became a bombastic populist/conservative commentator at Fox, he was a bombastic populist/liberal local anchor/newsman. He portrayed his true lack of ethics in his ridiculous dealings/stalkings of a younger co-worker.

My point is, the left is all about tying the terrorist who gunned down Tiller to right-wing groups and media personalities.

It makes about as much sense as tying the terrorist who gunned down Long to left-wing groups and media personalities.

It doesn't make much sense in either case. Just trying to point that out. But if you insist that the right-wing media personalities are complicit, then so are the left-wing media personalities who rant against the military, calling them torturers and occupiers, etc.

Lifelong Dem, I've been thinking about this angle myself; I was raised in a church much like the one where Dr. Tiller was shot. It seems to me that to the Christianist holy warrior, mainstream Protestants and liberal Christians just aren't really Christians. Part of the "message" (deliberate or unconscious) in the Tiller assassination is to punish the baby-killing faithlessness of the fellow worshipers in the congregation who harbored him.

It makes about as much sense as tying the terrorist who gunned down Long to left-wing groups and media personalities.

What crap. Roeder was active in Operation Rescue and several other right-wing groups. This is an indisputable fact. What "left-wing group" is the Arkansas killer supposed to have been attached to? Recent Muslim converts via Yemen are left-wing to you? Any other groups mentioned as having been among his interests?

Which liberal or liberalish major media personalities have suggested that the U.S. military is a bunch of murderers who must be stopped? Which have called recruiters killers who will "answer to God"?

Now stop trying to derail the thread, which seems to be your only purpose here.

The term we should use is "abortion prohibitionists." This is a descriptive, unemotional rendering of what they want to do, i.e. make abortion illegal. I'm not particularly fond of "pro-choice" either; I call myself a supporter of legal abortion.

I prefer "forced birth" myself. They don't care about what happens after birth, it's the birth they want to force on someone, even if the fetus is dead, or doesn't have a brain or a heart or lungs.

And 1st Paradox, you're absolutely right. Real True Christians, or RTCers, as they're called over at Slacktivist, don't believe other Christians are "real" Christians.

I am waiting for the family of the murdered doctor to sue Fox and O'Reilly. I think they have a damn good case.

You can't yell fire in a crowded theater, and this is what the right wing talking heads do, day in, day out, 24/7/365.

I recall a court ruling several years ago that ruled in favor of Fox news, which is why they are allowed to unabashedly be the propaganda arm of the right wing.

A loss in the case of Tiller Vs. fox news/Bill O'Reilly could work to stop this egregious abuse of the airwaves

I really, really hope that Dr. Tiller's family will sue this bastard. It'd be worth their while- talk about your deep pockets. Take every penny this son of a bitch has "earned" with his obscene hatefulness.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 2, 2009 at 8:28 AM

Therapy for the criminally murderously insane , yer appointment is scheduled ...

In Heck !

Special political party bonus , support home grown terror for identity wedge issues and be included in fiscal therapy 101

What crap. Roeder was active in Operation Rescue and several other right-wing groups. This is an indisputable fact. What "left-wing group" is the Arkansas killer supposed to have been attached to?

Exactly. Manufacturing bullshit equivalencies is pretty much the cornerstone of right-wing "discourse".

And by "manufacturing bullshit equivalencies", I of course mean "lying".

Yeah, those radical Muslims are simply aflamed over comments from left leaning commentators about our troops. Their hatred of the US and our troops had absolutely nothing to do with that Wild Eyed Liberal Cap Weinberger talking Reagan into allowing the USS New Jersey to take sides in a civil war and fire into homes of Muslims in Beirut.

Interestingly, that "Father of American Extremism", the Connecticut born and Ohio raised John Brown was not executed for involvement in killing of any pro-slavery men in Kansas or Missouri, but, was strung up for treason in the raid on the Armory at Harper's Ferry. He was, also, charged with murder for the deaths of five pro-slavery men, but, it was the Act of Treason against the State of Virginia which led to his demise. Although a hero to some of the radicals in the Abolutionist Movement, he was condemned for his actions by Lincoln. Did McVeigh worry about the lives of any military personnel in that Federal Building? An extremist is despicable, no matter where their position on the political spectrum is placed, as well as those who give them oral support.

What crap. Roeder was active in Operation Rescue and several other right-wing groups. This is an indisputable fact. What "left-wing group" is the Arkansas killer supposed to have been attached to?

That's the problem: the media isn't researching the Arkansas killer. Google news is 10:1 in articles of Tiller versus articles of Long.

I'd like to think that the media will do their due diligence and research Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad's background like they did Roeder. But I'm not holding my breath.

You should stop trying to explain to Rufus that a muslim terrorist is NOT necesarily a lefty. The troops all belong to the right wing so anyone who kills a soldier is, by definition, on the left. The fact that the only person who hates progressive changes more than a republican is an islamic fundamentalist is beside the point.

O'Reilly should be put on trial and, if there is any justice found to be criminally liable for Dr. Tiller's murder. There is precedent for such a move:

Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines (RTLM) was a Rwandan radio station which broadcast from July 8, 1993 to July 31, 1994. It played a significant role during the April-July 1994 Rwandan Genocide.

The station's name is French for "Mille Collines Free Radio and Television", deriving from the description of Rwanda as "Land of a Thousand Hills". It received support from the government-controlled Radio Rwanda, which initially allowed it to transmit using their equipment.

Widely listened to by the general population, it projected racist propaganda against Tutsis, moderate Hutus, Belgians, and the United Nations mission UNAMIR. It is widely regarded as having played a crucial role in creating the atmosphere of charged racial hostility that allowed the genocide to occur.

... The International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda's action against RTLM began on 23 October 2000 - along with the trial against Hassan Ngeze, director and editor of the Kangura magazine.

On 19 August 2003, at the tribunal in Arusha, life sentences were requested for RTLM leaders Ferdinand Nahimana, and Jean Bosco Barayagwiza, They were charged with genocide, incitement to genocide, and crimes against humanity, before and during the period of the genocides of 1994.

On 3 December 2003, the court found all three defendants guilty and sentenced Nahimana and Ngeze to life imprisonment and Barayagwiza to imprisonment for 35 years - this was appealed. The Appeal judgement, issued on 27 November 2007 reduced the sentances of all three - Nahimana getting 30 years, Barayagwiza getting 32 and Ngeze getting 35, with the court overturning convictions on certain counts.

What RTLM did, before the genocide started, was not all together different than what O'Reilly, and FOX News as a whole, is doing now. We could wait till there is a real culture war with significant loss of life or nip this all in the bud. What O'Reilly, and FOX, did was worse than yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. Much worse.

I love how Rufus complains there has been no national coverage of the recruiting station shooting, and then cites USA Today and ABC News.

That's the problem: the media isn't researching the Arkansas killer.

No, the problem is that you're just assuming that there "has to be" a connection to leftist politics in order for the point you're making not to be total horseshit.

Inventing equivalencies where they don't exist is patently dishonest, yet this is pretty much all conservatives do whenever they're criticized.

What's your point, John R? Are you saying Albert Einstein would advocate the assassination of a law-abiding doctor? Seriously?

Jeff @ 10:12: "The fact that the only person who hates progressive changes more than a republican is an islamic fundamentalist is beside the point."

OUCH. Very well said. Right wing zealots are only a white Christian version of the Jihadists. The only difference is the "god" they worship.

What's the only difference between an Islamic Fundamentalist and a Christian Fundamentalist?

Lipstick.

Thank you. I'll be here all week!

so are the left-wing media personalities who rant against the military, calling them torturers and occupiers, etc.

Name one. With a cite. Thanks in advance.

And I hate to break it to you, but the US actually did occupy Iraq.

Jackass.

That's the problem: the media isn't researching the Arkansas killer.

Shorter Rufus: It's the liberal media's fault I can't back up my assertions!

Jackass.

My point is, the left is all about tying the terrorist who gunned down Tiller to right-wing groups and media personalities.

Well, yes, when a guy works with right-wing anti-abortion and "sovereign citizen" groups and has a previous arrest for having bomb-making materials in his car, the media is going to report that. Are you arguing that those ties should be suppressed by the media? Are you saying that when someone that Bill O'Reilly has repeatedly called a "baby killer" on the air is murdered inside his church, we're not allowed to mention that?

It makes about as much sense as tying the terrorist who gunned down Long to left-wing groups and media personalities.

On what planet are Islamic fundamentalists "left-wing"? You sound like the morons during the Iran hostage crisis who insisted that the hostage takers weren't really religious extremists, they were Godless Communists in disguise.

Shorter Rufus: Damn liberal media won't manufacture nonexistent ties of black muslim convert to left-wing groups. Worse still, media is reporting all the known ties of anti-choice terrorist with right-wing groups - how unfair!!

Aww Gregory beat me to it, and was much more concise. Drats.

Ah, "Rufus" desperately Googles -- and typically comes up short.

"Accuracy in Media"? Are you kidding? And a column that's long on opinion and short on facts -- just like you, come to think of it -- into the bargain?

But you're wrong, as usual. Even your source doesn't cite O'Donnell as calling the troops either torturers or occupiers.

It claims -- and of course, the right-wing AIM is completely credible in this, right? -- that she implies that her criticizing the criminal -- and deadly -- policies of the Bush Administration should be taken as a slur on the troops. As usual, the chest-thumping chickenhawks on the right hide behind the honor of the troops to deflect cricitism.

So no, citatation fail. Care to try again?

Jackass.

Dumbass Ditto-Head Rufus wrote: "My point is, the left is all about tying the terrorist who gunned down Tiller to right-wing groups and media personalities."

Terroristic murderer Scott Roeder's ties to violent right-wing groups are established fact -- established by law enforcement, not by your idiotic, one-dimensional, cartoon comic-book stereotype of "the left".

And no one has suggested any direct ties between Roeder and Bill O'Reilly -- Steve Benen's article simply points out that O'Reilly's long history of hate speech and open advocacy of violence against abortion providers, and specifically against Tiller, helped to create the environment in which someone like Roeder would choose to commit acts of violence including murder.

Dumbass Ditto-Head Rufus wrote: "It makes about as much sense as tying the terrorist who gunned down Long to left-wing groups and media personalities."

You have offered NO evidence that that killer has ANY "ties" to any left-wing groups, nor have you offered ANY evidence that ANY so-called "left-wing" media personality has engaged in hate speech and open advocacy of violence that remotely compares to what O'Reilly directed towards Dr. Tiller.

In short, as much as you may want to revel in being a poor, pitiful "conservative" victim of Powerful Liberal Elites And The Leftist Media Who Control Everything, you are really just full of shit.

Ah, "Rufus" desperately Googles -- and typically comes up short.

Of course. "Argument" first, facts as an afterthought. Is anyone surprised?

Rosie O'Donnell? LOL!!!

Keep it up Dufus, we need new clowns here to entertain us, even if you can't debate your way out of a paper bag. I'm not gonna bother repeating what many others here have explained to you, apparently you're allergic to common sense and reality.

Rufus the Dufus. Tiller was a national public figure. He figured in a very widely reported trial in which he was recently acquitted. His name featured very prominently in the attempt to block the nomination of Kathleen Sebelius. Probably millions of people recognized his name and the significance of his killing. When prominent people get killed it is news.

Pat Tillman was not the only soldier killed in Afghanistan that week, the reason his death was widely covered was because he was famous.

Phil Spector was not the only guy in America convicted this year for killing his girlfriend. It was news because of who he was.

The media covers the doings of the rich and the famous and the murders of blond coeds while ignore the poor, obscure and brown/black because that is what defines news for most people. Trying to make this natural response to the two events into some left-wing conspiracy is just brain dead.

All through the active stages of the Iraq War when American casualties were mounting a bunch of Doofi were asking why there was not more coverage of all the schools that were getting painted. As if your local news typically leads off with the top story "Jefferson Elementary on Elm Street go a fresh coat of paint on its Gymnasium! Details after this break."

Dead nationally famous abortion doctors and NFL stars turned soldier? News. Dead PFC shot down by prison convert? Still news, but not headline news. School painting? Well that is not news at all.

Rufus needs to get a grip. Or stop gripping something, I don't know which. But obviously he has lost all sense of proportion here.

Is Rosie a journalist? If so, where does Soupy Sales stand on this issue? Dufus, you've really got me thinkin' now.

I'm not sure all the fetuses had complications: at least some were healthy and did not threaten the health of the mother. Tiller did however, deal with those troubled cases as well, and was one of the only doctors who took them on at that late stage.

My thoughts on what a respect for life really means.

And what about the women, American citizens all, who would have died if the abortion had not been performed. Did they lose their citizenship when they became pregnant.

This cannot be stressed enough, IMO. Andrew Sullivan was on Countdown last night talking about his personal opposition to abortion, but his belief that the killer and the radical "pro-life"(talk about a misnomer) groups are in fact terrorists(and in many cases effective ones).
He also mentioned the many emails he received from women who were treated by Dr. Tiller and whose lives were saved by him, or those who were saved from a tragic situation where the baby would have certainly died or been born with major deformities.
That's what assholes like O'Reilly and most of the radical pro-doctor murder movement don't want to discuss. To them, women are just mindless pawns of the doctors, as opposed to intelligent people who want to make their own difficult decisions.

That's the name I'm using for the anti-choice zealots any more--the doctor murdering movement. Terry, O'Reilly and the rest of their sub-human ilk believe that Tiller deserved to die, they endorse the murder of doctors, and the best that their mindless followers can do is to try and find some bullshit equivalent where they can say "see, the left does it too" and act like it's all okay.
We've got a doctor who acted within the law who was murdered in his church and what do we get from the wingnuts? Rosie O'Donnell.
Pathetic.

Hopefully, one of these days, O'Reilly will "reap what he's sown" with one of his whackjob followers nailing him for not "keeping the faith."

TC, knock it off.