"One Congressman seems to be confused about what freezing "natural growth" in West Bank settlements would mean"

I know you were being facetious, but it should be said that *of course* the Congressman knows he is deliberately misrepresenting a "natural growth" plan. So he's a pandering liar.

The LA Times doesn't even do a *he said/she said* article structure there, where they find someone else to say, "the official definition of natural growth doesn't mean anything like that" (while the reporter himself stays judgment free.

Or perhaps Israel commits to allowing the separate Palestinian nation-state, handing over the West Bank to Palestine. Any settlers there become Palestinian citizens. If they still want to build AND become citizens of Palestine, well that's their choice.

On the other hand, I cannot think of a country in the world that does not impose restrictions on building in some form. "Needing" to build where on pleases is a canard.

on whatever the Israeli analog of ice floes is

From my experience there, I'd say the settlements are the Israeli analog of ice floes.

Since at its core this is about how a finite amount of land is to be divided between Israelis and Palestinians, does Rep. Ackerman's "logic" not mean that supporting Israeli "Natural Growth" will inevitably amount to telling Palestinian families not to grow, get married, and to throw away their grandparents? But I suppose Rep. Ackerman does not see that as unthinkable and inhumane.

And a good portion of Jerusalem's neighborhoods are also considered to be "settlements" built after 1967. So where are Jews supposed to go? Probably close to 100,000 settlers are ultra-Orthodox who aren't wanted in the secular Tel Aviv area. What you're recommending is simply ethnic cleansing.

So where are Jews supposed to go? Probably close to 100,000 settlers are ultra-Orthodox who aren't wanted in the secular Tel Aviv area. What you're recommending is simply ethnic cleansing.

This has to be the most pathetic argument ever: because secular Jews in Tel Aviv don't want ultra-orthodox Jews in their neighborhood, the Palestinians in East-Jerusalem and the West Bank have to accept the ultra-Orthodox Jews on what the International Community considers Palestinian territory.

Is there any boundary of stupidity that is out of bounds for the pro-settler lobby?

Sorry, the last sentence should read:

Is there any degree of stupidity that is out of bounds for the pro-settler lobby?

"Natural growth" seems to be the new way of saying "Lebensraum". Now, where have I heard that term; that nasty little "Lebensraum" word before?

Oh---yeah.................

That's just embarrassing. Maybe it's time to establish a standardize test for members of congress.

So where are Jews supposed to go?

You have a point--I guess you ought to remove a bunch of Palestinians so the the Jews have somewhere to go. The Palestinians will just have to move back to their own country.

I think we need it most in times of recession.Financial crisis affect the health of people so it does bring impact to the concern of government.The financial crisis has taught us a lot. One of the things the financial crisis has taught us is that even giants can fall, and even though he lives down the street, the local banker cares more for a balance sheet than anyone's household. It's been a terrifying ride, and hopefully the whole thing will be back up faster than the fastest rapid payday loans. The financial crunch has put a hurting on many industries and millions of people, and the lessons to be learned for the future are legion. There are now record numbers of people running for payday loans because of unreliable banks during the financial crisis.

The congressman is a pandering liar, the pro-settler Israelis are pandering liars, the Bush Admin were pandering liars. All that is finally becoming common ground across the West. Thank God for Obama. But that is only step one.

Now I would like to see Arab (not Palestinian) hypocrisy be publicly defined, too. Then we might be able to get somewhere. A little bit of humiliation would help both sides lose their ridiculous poses.

So if we do the math, if 37% of the growth in settlement population is due to in-migration, then 63% is in fact due to "natural growth."

Then there's the question of exactly which settlements, where. Some the Israelis are no doubt expecting to give up control over in an agreement (although whether the people who live there would move is kind of another question). Some they're negotiating to keep. Whether they'll need to dismantle them I guess depends upon how the negotiations go.

Note also that notwithstanding Gorenberg's distinction between settlements and suburbs of Jerusalem, the Palestinians don't accept that distinction.

Since a lot of the conflict has to do with competition for land resources, and as smart as the Israeli's have demonstrated themselves to be, I don't know why they haven't followed the lead of the Dutch and reclaimed land from the Sea. All they have to do is move the Golan Heights. If they had faith, they could move mountains...

Keep building settlements as fast as they can. Israeli property which becomes incorporated into the interim Palestinian state will be welcome. They won't be dismantled, although some may be intentionally damaged before abandonment. The green line means nothing as it has been ignored for over 40 years. Whatever border that is set up will be eliminated within 100 years, as the muslim population of Israel will become predominant, and a new united country will reform.

Liebensraum!

But I suppose Rep. Ackerman does not see that as unthinkable and inhumane.

IMO, that's also the view of many settlers, which I find to be tragically ironic. They also believe that they were chosen by god to live there, so it's hard to have any sort of reasonable discussion. Of course, the Palestinians feel the same way.
Sometimes, it all just seems absurd, that so much death and destruction, and so much of our focus internationally, revolves around two groups fighting over a patch of sand the size of Delaware.
I'm just glad Obama is going all out from the beginning of his administration to try and reach an agreement. Won't be easy at all, but better than waiting until you're a lame duck.

I could have sworn I saw someone allude to the greenhouses. Too bad it disappeared. Pointing to the greenhouses is a common canard used by apologists for Israel. Some of us, however, were paying attention at the time and know that bullshit is being peddled wholesale.

The greenhouses were not gifted to the Palestinians, they were bought. Jobs were created and they were on the verge of profitability, and Israel closed the border and the flowers and produce rotted.

"IMO, that's also the view of many settlers, which I find to be tragically ironic."

If you know the history of zionism... extreme racism will not be a surprise. Its founding principle from day 1 (most people don't know the zionist movement started in the late 1800's) was the creation of a state based on cultural and racial purity.

The reasons the palestinans were driven off their land was that israel was not to be polluted by other cultures... and it's the reason they cannot be allowed to return to their homes.

Purity of the race. Sound familiar? In this case it is your tax dollars at work.

My grandparents raised 10 kids in a three bedroom house. They'll get by.

Probably close to 100,000 settlers are ultra-Orthodox who aren't wanted in the secular Tel Aviv area.

Gee, I wonder why the ultra-Orthodox aren't wanted in Tel Aviv. Maybe they would be better accepted if they pretended to be willing to tolerate their fellow citizens rather than rioting whenever they don't get their way.

There was peace in the Middle East prior to the Jews coming and stealing Palestinian lands. I bet there will be another attack (like 9/11) by the Mossad in order to get sympathies back on the side of the Israelis. Obama is correct. The Israelis don't want peace.