Goldberg's perspective is even more twisted than I realized.

The perspective of Conservatives is going to get much more twisty. The cognitive dissonance required to come up with this kind of 'explanation' is the only way that Mr. Goldberg and friends can keep their heads from exploding.

I guess it takes one who is objectively crazy to know one who is.

One expects this sort of utter nonsense from The Internets, but not so much from the Broadcast/Print world.

Until, say, 2001. . .

Goldberg's perspective is even more twisted than I realized.

The dabate I've had with myself lately is whether these guys are lying or delusional. I've decided delusional is the only possible conclusion.

And sadly, his perspective is spreading - one delusional step at a time.

ol' shit-for-brains goldberg is sounding a lot like the iranian interior ministry...

i suspect they share epistemological (& ethical) principles and precepts...

Goldberg's perspective is even more profitable than I realized.

Fixed. Sorry, Steve. You need to get a whole lot stupider, get a different mother, and try again.

Terraformer

You may find the following article offers a cogent report of the process of denial. Denial is one of the more dangerous coping mechanisms employed by people experiencing cognitive dissonance.

Charny, I. W. (2003). A classification of denials of the Holocaust and other genocides. Journal of Genocide Research, 5, 11-34. http://www.ideajournal.com/articles.php?id=27

The oxymoron Liberal Fascism speaks for itself, and to think a publisher would even attempt to publish such an exercise in polemic torture.

Where is the intellect on the Right? Is it too wrapped in want of power not to see some of these basic examples of madness and danger? Why can't the Right plainly and often say what Von Brunn, or any other definable democratic opposer with a violent intent, is or is not?

Instead we are treated to rhetorical nonsense, strewn with denial and projection - the kind of stuff never appropriate even to an adolescent of pre-teen age! I say pull the plug to idiotic and dangerous media personalities. We don't need their sophistry and we certainly don't need their emotional dross spewing on the rest of us.

What we need is a good old fashion word of mouth campaign to get our friends and loved ones to stop listening to the nuts among us! -Kevo

The RWingut movement has been built on a binary principle that all RWingnuts are saints and Libs are the evil. Period. Stop. End of story.

When you live in that kind of world it is hard to accept that your side can be scumbags. Considering the hardline ideology the RWingnuts have been throwing out, anything less that total fealty is not acceptable.

As pointed out above, they must transmute all their weaknesses and failures (from what I've seen, plenty plenty to go around) onto their enemies in order for their pathetic little mental universes to remain stable. Otherwise, they'd be forced to deal with reality and gosh darn it, actually change their minds or, horrors, turn librul.

Truth is, most of us have had to deal with this disappointment and failures as children (no Santa, no Easter Bunny, Dad and Mom are flawed human beings, not going to be the sports hero, I'm not perfect, etc, etc.)

I've found in my experience that people like Jonah have a serious case of arrested development. Look at the arguments set forth lately. Look at the behavior. The temper tantrums. How can you not feel like that they're kids? They are. Until these maturity retarded kids like Jonah can grow the fuck up (unfortunately a big IF) and realize that the world isn't what the they think it is, the better we all will be. I'm personally sick and fucking tired of seeing children pretending to be adults thinking they deserve a chance at running the show.

Wait - I thought we liberals were supposed to be supporters of Islamic Fundamentalism. And godless atheists. Now we're also nativist Nazis. I gotta write all this down to keep it straight.

Is there anyone who does not share the morbid fear of twisty baked goods ?
Inoculation from sure twisty baked death is the vaccine from it . In immersion , as demonstrated by the omniscient commander busshie is where security may be divined at long last .
The emotional surge is enough to choke ones breath in gaspy surrender to the clear unfolding of reason in faith .
For the trepidation felt by those of little faith , remember that only by acting may we frail mortals approach the all mightiness's shadow . If there is a technique which can make the frail strong , it is good . If it is merely a lie that motivates the flock , it is better . For how easily these unwashed become mighty with the holy lie . Amen

Jonah pantload Goldbrick is a goddamn, slanderous piece of shit esp. for saying "his hatreds echoed the kind of stuff we hear from the Kos crowd, Chris Matthews, Andrew Sullivan et al." Really. "Hatreds" maybe sometimes from some Kos commenters (so what, they aren't as bad as the con-blog threads), but to pick like that on Matthews (mostly ragging on Dems anyway, the prick) and Andrew Sullivan?! This whole thing has gotten rancid.

BTW, one way to fight that left-Brunn bit is to check into his other opinions, about economics, abortion, State's rights, guns, etc. We already know some; just need more, and more publicizing.

Actually, it is a brilliant strategy, and we need to work vigilantly to counter it.

Their goal is no less than to redefine the political spectrum so that right wing as well as left wing extremism is blamed on the left. In other words, we lefties are responsible for everything bad that has ever happened: Hitler as well as Stalin; the Holocaust as well as Mao's collectivism.

Meanwhile, the right is pure and innocent.

Goldberg's perspective is even more twisted than I realized

The minimum requirements for somebody who wants to be taken seriously as a professional contributor to the public discours has to be that his/her contributions have to be grounded in reality and they have to be made in good faith.

Jonah Goldberg's 'Liberal Fascism' tome fails in both aspects. Jonah Goldberg therefore is either delusional or a BS artist, but in either case he has forfeited the privilege, and that is what it is, to be taken seriously as a public persona.

Fucking stupid.

I grew up in the south. My dad was from Mississippi and I went to college in Alabama and men spouting off in a similar fashion and using similar words on the same issues (though not necessarily acting on their words) were always affiliated with the GOP.

Just because Goldberg doesn't like it doesn't mean that it isn't true. I guess there are still many in the GOP that are still making their own reality.

Goldberg is using classic Goebels propaganda techniques. Take your weakness and project it onto your opponents. keep repeating until it sticks. The irony practically reaches up and slaps me. Specially considering his Jewish ancestry. Sad really.

if anything Goldberg is more akin to Brun than he realizes. Fascism lies in the heart of hatred towards "the other", of which Goldberg is clearly filled with.

Aside from scoring political points I don't see what can gained assigning a place on a one-dimensional left-right line for someone like James von Brun. Wouldn't describing him as delusional or paranoid be more useful. As for Jonah Goldberg, I read his book "Liberal Fascism", it was nonsense. As far as I know Eric Hoffer still sets the standard with "The True Believer"

As I've said, righties tend more to hate Jews as a people/"race"/religion(iffy) and in combination with blacks, and lefties are more against Israel as a State (often for good cause.) Von Brunn is more the former type.

The Goldberg comment is, as expected, mind-numbingly stupid, maybe, just barely,more insane than his average.

But the real 'tell' in the article is the quote from Randall Terry. He could have 'gotten away' with a quote along the lines of 'now they will try to link anti-abortionists with white supremacists.' (With the assumed addition 'that shows you how unfair those nasty liberals are.')

But, if Weigl has it right, it was Terry who made the linkage.

"“Let me pre-empt all the bloggers in the world,” Terry said. “Here’s where the bloggers are going to head: the white supremacists and the pro-lifers really are terrorists, just like the paper from Homeland Security said… they’re going to go ‘See, she was right! Pro-lifers and these white militiamen from Idaho, they’re all terrorists!’”

The last time someone on the Radical Religious Right so unwittingly revealed himself was Tony Perkins' infamous shout-out to the Phineas Priesthood.

I do believe that Marcos (of Kos) would rather not be lumped in with the likes of Chris Matthews. I certainly see little if any commonality.

A 5-4 win would have been good enough...

Von Brunn was a frequent poster on the far-rightwing hate site "Free Republic".

His postings were well accepted by the "Freepers".

His hateful screed "Obama is Missing" is signed by him, IN HIS FULL NAME, James W. von Brunn, on December 02, 2008 It is still up on that site... check it out before it's removed.

His Free Republic nick was "wannabegeek"... read his other rightwing hate posts.

Google "Obama is Missing" Type in user, wannabegeek if the link below is broken and read von Brunn's racist rants as well as the "Freepers" hateful, SUPPORTIVE responses.

This is irrefutable proof von Brunn was a racist, murdering rightwinger.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:wannabegeek/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change

I can only conclude that Goldberg is repeating this Big Lie in order to not alienate a subset of the people who sit between himself and von Brunn on the political spectrum. This is another sign that the Republican party as we know it is disintegrating.

oops... up above intended for another thread

As near as I can tell this particular lie was created by Boss Limbaugh the day after the shooting. If you watch the tape it is pretty clear that Limbaugh is frantically trying to find a way out of the obvious link between von Brunn and his dittohead base on the twisted far right. Goldberg is echoing Limbaugh's deluded rant. Neither has made an argument grounded in reality. That both are honored by being repeated by the MSM and some in the liberal blogosphere says more about the MSM and the liberal blogosphere than anything.

If Limbaugh rant is repeated often enough it will be accepted as a version of "reality" entitled to some grudging support.

Damn I wish the MSM demanded that it's regular voices be grounded in reality to keep their jobs.

Here's some more desperation getting ugly:

http://www.examiner.com/x-5697-Grassroots-Politics-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Arkansas-Tea-Party-Rally-to-feature-speaker-who-says-thousands-will-be-dead-in-streets-if-no-change?cid=examiner-email

I'm wondering if Jonah's mother is still dressing him. Another spoiled little rich kid whose mother took care of his every need and want, whose spoiled brat opinion fails to note that people like Roeder would shoot him dead after shooting his mother right in front of him simply because of his name being Goldberg.

What a stretch to attribute Roeder to the KOS.

btw...u can't say the word "slutty" even when quoting, at media matters or you will get a note that says try to make a comment without using profanity-ha! No wonder it's O'Reilly's favorite site, huh?

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Stalin supported a strong military and distrusted the Chinese communists; by employing Jonah's logic, we come to the conclusion tha Stalin was a rock-ribbed Republican.

For pseudo-intellectuals like Goldberg, the most difficult step in constructing bullshit stories like this is deciding exactly how deep you need to pile it in order to buttress your position.

So it's really more of an engineering task than an intellectual task.
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I e-mailed Goldberg on this... he refused to answer my post on this so I ended up calling him for what he is... a liar by omission.

This is irrefutable proof von Brunn was a rightwinger.

James Van Brunn was a frequent poster on the far-rightwing hate site "Free Republic".

His postings were well accepted by the "Freepers".

His hateful screed "Obama is Missing" is signed by him, IN HIS FULL NAME, James W. von Brunn, on December 02, 2008 It is still up on that site... check it out before it's removed.

His Free Republic nick was "wannabegeek"... read his other rightwing hate posts.

Google "Obama is Missing" Type in user, wannabegeek if the link below is broken and read von Brunn's racist rants as well as the "Freepers" hateful, SUPPORTIVE responses.

This is irrefutable proof von Brunn was a racist, murdering rightwinger.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:wannabegeek/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change

ANSWER is an anti-Semitic organization so why are you so shocked?

In addition to many articles on the topic, there are plenty photos around to substantiate their animus. Google it.

Dave Weigel's Ornicus blog is outrageous, for instance making the wild charge that Rush Limbaugh's radio show is like Rwandan radio (you know, where people were massacred en masse by machete-wielding genocidal maniacs), with the latest gem from his comrade Sara being a claim that conservatives are trying to start a civil war. Pretty incendiary talk, dontcha think? They better shut up or they might incite some madman pick up a gun.

According to this thinking (and that of the 'anti-corporatist' Sara who, btw, thinks Dr. Tiller was some kind of Saint), criticism of sacred progressive ideas is out of bounds because some loon might get angry and commit an irrational act of violence.

It's just an excuse to silence dissent and drum up (dare I say it?) hatred for people who don't hate corporations, capitalism, Israel, free-markets, and all the things that "progressives" loathe.

"Goldberg called Von Brunn "objectively crazy," but argued that "his hatreds would be easier to find at an ANSWER rally than at CPAC."

what was the give away...

the CONFEDERATE HAT that witnesses said von brunn was wearing before he started shooting?

This is irrefutable proof James Van Brunnwas a rightwinger.

James Van Brunn was a frequent poster on the far-rightwing hate site "Free Republic".

His postings were well accepted by the "Freepers".

His hateful screed "Obama is Missing" is signed by him, IN HIS FULL NAME, James W. von Brunn, on December 02, 2008 It is still up on that site... check it out before it's removed.

His Free Republic nick was "wannabegeek"... read his other rightwing hate posts.

Google Free Republic "Obama is Missing"

Type in user, wannabegeek if the link below is broken and read von Brunn's other rightwing rants as well as the "Freepers" hateful, SUPPORTIVE responses.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:wannabegeek/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change

And, as we all know, leftists often post on anti-Obama websites under the name "Rush is Right." It's all becoming clear now...

Oops. I confused David Weigel with David Neiwert. Which was easy to do since they essentially make the same ludicrous arguments.

The arguments you Lefty commenters are providing are so weak they hardly deserve a response. Because a neo-con hating, Christian hating, 9/11 Truther left comments at Free Republic, that's irrefutable proof that he was a right winger?

No doubt you all were terribly offended by conclusions that Obama palled around with terrorists. And speaking of Obama, is his Jew- hating pastor a right winger too? Come to think of it, the fact Barry spent 20 years in his "church" must be "irrefutable proof" that Barack's a Jew-hater too. Heck, while we're at it, let's add Eric Holder to the list since he just dropped charges against the Jew-hating, racist thugs in the New Black Panther Party (who endorsed Barack Obama) and blogged at Obama's campaign website.

Irrefutable Proof!

Danishova, people are looking at what von Brunn said at FR, not the bare fact of commenting there. A better point is, there isn't really a clear cut distinction between left and right all the time. But even if it's ambiguous, that wouldn't justify Rush/berg bending over backwards to saying von Brunn was more left-leaning anyway - but only that it might not be clear. But we need to know more about his other opinions.

"People are looking at what Von Brunn said at FR".

"We need to know more about his other opinions".

Von Brunn is a hateful madman. One can hardly claim that this mentally ill man represents mainstream conservative thought. Heck, we could just as easily blame this murder on Rosie O'Donnell who, like Von Brunn, is a 9/11 Truther.

Rush and Goldberg were reacting to Left who immediately shrieked that Von Brunn was a right-winger and it's the fault of conservative pundits that he went on a murderous rampage - and they provided evidence which contradicts their claims.

The bottom line is that the only argument the Left has remaining that cannot be debunked is that he was a white man. So there you have it.

How about blaming Von Brunn and his sick heart, soul and brain for his actions - instead of conflating it into an excuse to silence conservatives (like Rush) which is undeniably the ultimate goal of many on the Left with their Orwellian "fairness doctrines"?

"Rush and Goldberg were reacting to Left who immediately shrieked that Von Brunn was a right-winger and it's the fault of conservative pundits that he went on a murderous rampage - and they provided evidence which contradicts their claims."

Is that the same Rush Limbaugh who signed off his radio show just before Von Brunn's attack by accusing Obama of not having a U.S. birth certificate, something Von Brunn was similarly obsessed with?

Mike

One can hardly claim that this mentally ill man represents mainstream conservative thought. Heck, we could just as easily blame this murder on Rosie O'Donnell who, like Von Brunn, is a 9/11 Truther.

No we couldn't, because Rosie O'Donnell, being a leftist, is the antitheses of Von Brunn. She is:

not a racist

doesn't hate Jews

doesn't believe in an impending one-world gov't

doesn't post on Free Republic and Neo-Nazi websites

doesn't believe the "American government at the behest of the Jewish cabal" was responsible for 9/11, just elements of the Bush administration. Von Brunn by contrast believed that every administration was nothing but a Jewish-controlled tool in a larger worldwide plot.

doesn't hate -- and I quote from Von Brunn -- "liberalism," being a liberal herself

You're a pathetic goof. Von Brun is the classic right-wing nutcase. Whether or not he represents "mainstream" conservative thought is not the issue here: he did in some ways, and he also obviously took those ideas to extremes.

The question at hand is whether or not he was "right-wing," which without a doubt he was. Nazis are right-wing; neo-Nazis are right-wing; anti-tax milita members are right-wing; one-world government fearers are right-wing. Old school racists are right-wing.

Even the DHS, which had warned about right-wing extremists EXACTLY like Von Brunn, called him a "well-known right-wing extremist."

You're done here. You'll find the door to your left.

"Von Brunn] is a well-known right wing extremist," says Frank Cilluffo, director of the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University. "It's tragic.

Yep.

"If al Qaeda wants to demolish the America we know and love, they better hurry, because Obama's beating them to it" -- Rush Limbaugh, just a few weeks ago

Huh. I wonder if inflammatory rhetoric like that is inciting crazy right-wingers who listen to Rush to stockpile ammunition, fear for their lives, and go on killing sprees? If only there was some way to know...like basic logic.

Von Brun wrote articles for the Free Republic and white supremacist websites as other posters have mentioned. Can anyone confirm that the Free Republic pulled his posts almost immediately after the shooting? If so, how did they cross-correlate his real name with his screen name so soon after the events transpired at the Holocaust Museum?

I think the NY Times wrote about this right after it happened but it has disappeared from the MSM in general.

trex on June 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM:

*sigh* I used Rosie as an example of how absurd it is to blame the conservative movement for the acts of one crazed madman.

*sigh* If it were just one madman and one murder, you might have a point, but sadly, it is a progression of madmen, followers of fringe-right figures and or beliefseach and every one, who are committing these heinous acts. That is acts. Plural. As in more than one. As in a pattern is emerging and a common thread is an anherenct to right-wing nuttery.

Reagan literally and figuratively let the loonies out of the asylum. Now they are running the joint. This is the culmination of a process that was started in Philadelphia, Mississippi about 30 years ago.

What is Nationalsozialismus? National conservatism?

Hint, a cognate is involved.

No, it's national socialism, the sort of economy Dems go for.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalsozialismus

Great work, webmaster, nice design!