Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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June 19, 2009

DEPT. OF ELECTIONS, CONSEQUENCES.... In light of George W. Bush's not-so-subtle shots at his successor this week, White House reporters pressed press secretary Robert Gibbs yesterday for a reaction to the former president's criticisms. In particular, Gibbs was asked about Bush's disparagement of Obama's policy on the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay.

Gibbs said Thursday that many of those policies were debated during last year's election.

"We kept score last November, and we won," Gibbs said.

The response is reminiscent of a closed-door exchange on the Hill in January, a few days after Obama's inauguration. Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) told the president that the Democratic plan to give a tax credit to those who don't pay income taxes isn't a tax cut, but rather, a check. Obama responded that this was a common point of debate during the presidential campaign -- McCain/Palin called the plan "welfare" -- and voters were not swayed by Republican arguments. "I won," Obama told lawmakers.

It's nice to see a little bravado from the White House on occasion -- I think it's what Bill Maher probably had in mind when he criticized the president last week -- but the message should be especially relevant to Congress.

After all, American voters gave Democrats a big majority in the House, a big majority in the Senate, and 365 electoral votes to the Democratic president. Obama has a 60% approval rating, and support for Republicans has plummeted.

It's tempting, then, to remind Democratic policymakers, as they negotiate with the shrinking minority party and back down on key priorities, "You won."

Steve Benen 8:35 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (113)

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And by contrast, even Republicans and Blue Dogs campaigned on the promises of affordable access to health care. So we end up with winners and liars.

Posted by: Danp on June 19, 2009 at 8:36 AM | PERMALINK

WE have way too many Democrats who are afraid that upsetting the Republican'ts will stop them from getting re-elected. I personally think more of them would get returned to office if they went to the people and had a a record of successes in getting us out of the mess we are in.

how did we elect so many wusses?

Posted by: madstork123 on June 19, 2009 at 8:41 AM | PERMALINK

Agree with Danp.

It is frustrating as a voter to see the backpedaling of Democrats. While I must keep in mind that the Democratic party is indeed a big tent, much more varied with respect to particular viewpoints than is the lock-step Republican party, we are (and have been) seeing the true colors of many legislators. The color of money. Will it always be thus? I'm sorry to say I think it will be. But what else can we do?

Posted by: terraformer on June 19, 2009 at 8:42 AM | PERMALINK

This is the Democratic Party's last chance. If they fuck up yet again as they did in Clinton's first two years, they are going to lose a LOT of the base to third parties. How many second, third and fourth chances do they expect voters to give them before concluding that they're just not worth bothering with?

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 8:47 AM | PERMALINK

Then SOTH Tip O'Neil reminded Jimmy Carter during the energy crisis when Jimmy ran the White House w/ no air conditioning, "Mr, President, we won." Big Tip couldn't take the heat...classic! Of course Jimmy continued to lead by example. He's the politician everyone says they want, but alas we the people turned our backs on him. Who's feeling the heat now?

Posted by: Heraclitus on June 19, 2009 at 8:53 AM | PERMALINK

I want the administration to say a bit more though. Saying "we won" all the time will start to sound arrogant. People need to be reminded of what this election stands for. I'd also like to see Bush and Co. called out their disrespect for the office.

Posted by: coral on June 19, 2009 at 8:54 AM | PERMALINK

It's tempting, then, to remind Democratic policymakers, as they negotiate with the shrinking minority party and back down on key priorities, "You won."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your audience's lack of nads has such entreaties falling on deaf ears. Kinda like egging on a eunuch to bang away at the lady of the manor. Sorta cruel when you think about it.

Posted by: steve duncan on June 19, 2009 at 8:55 AM | PERMALINK

There is an argument that goes both parties are under the thumb of the same entrenched banking and conglomerate interests. We have two parties because the powers that are believe they can use a sham democracy to keep tens of millions of well educated Americans in check. That in reality they only allow one outcome. That explanation neatly explains the hard blue dog drive to the right and the timidness of Congressional leadership. Of course since we don't believe money is equal to speech, we don't give corporations "human" status, we don't select judges nearly exclusively for their willingness to back corporations at every turn at the expense of regular people, a handful of giant corporations don't run all the media, contracts of adhesion aren't the norm and there isn't a well defined system of legal corporate bribery called the "election laws," it is hard to believe that corporate control of both parties is real.

Posted by: Ron Byers on June 19, 2009 at 9:03 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for demonstrating Republican political thinking that led to the results of the last two elections, steve 'dipshit' duncan.

Posted by: The Dark Avenger on June 19, 2009 at 9:07 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for demonstrating Republican political thinking that led to the results of the last two elections, steve 'dipshit' duncan.

Thanks for being too fucking stupid to understand the reality of which Byers mockingly speaks above, Dark "Dipshit" Avenger.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 9:11 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for demonstrating Republican political thinking that led to the results of the last two elections, steve 'dipshit' duncan.

The Republicans didn't lose the last two elections because they were willing to push through policies they thought were right; they lost the last two elections because their policies sucked and hurt people.

I swear, it's like every thread on the "nice" liberal blogs is full of commenters who just came out of Sunday school class.

Posted by: Tyro on June 19, 2009 at 9:12 AM | PERMALINK

Another classy move by The One.

Bush was gracious enough never to wave his mandates in the faces of the opponents he'd vanquished.

Obama sneaks into office by a couple of points thanks to ACORN and we're all supposed to bow down to his Supreme Leadership. Remind you of anybody?

Posted by: Myke K on June 19, 2009 at 9:12 AM | PERMALINK

madstork123, while I agree with you, may I amend your first sentence to read: They are afraid that their campaign coffers will diminish should they cross their "bosses", i.e., the Big Banking, Big Insurance and Big Pharma. Just seeing the photo at HuffPo of Baucus standing with Grassley was akin to eyeing two peas in a pod.

Posted by: berttheclock on June 19, 2009 at 9:13 AM | PERMALINK

In today's two-party electorate, a Democratic "victory" can just as easily indicate a Republican failure. This does NOT mean that everyone supports the Democratic agenda. I think Democrats need to practice a little more restraint when trumpeting their "mandate".

Posted by: Jon Karak on June 19, 2009 at 9:14 AM | PERMALINK

I think Democrats need to practice a little more restraint when trumpeting their "mandate".

I think idiots like you need to read the fucking polls which clearly show the Dems are actually proposing far LESS than the public wants- especially on health care.

Get your mouth off David Broder's dick and maybe you can start noticing what's actually going on around you.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 9:17 AM | PERMALINK

In today's two-party electorate, a Democratic "victory" can just as easily indicate a Republican failure. This does NOT mean that everyone supports the Democratic agenda.

How about the Democrats push their agenda through, and we let the voters decide in 2010 and 2012 whether that's what they really wanted?

Posted by: Tyro on June 19, 2009 at 9:18 AM | PERMALINK

Jon Karak is ever so correct - Mandates only occur when the Fab Five Supremos say so.

Posted by: berttheclock on June 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM | PERMALINK

Get some anger management training, LaBonne.

Posted by: intervention now on June 19, 2009 at 9:24 AM | PERMALINK

Get some anger management training, LaBonne.

Real reforms happened in the 1930s because enough people got angry.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 9:27 AM | PERMALINK

Myke K. Your killing me, that's hysterical. Really funny shit.

Posted by: Scott F. on June 19, 2009 at 9:27 AM | PERMALINK

It's not the anger that's the problem, LeMal. It's what you do with it and whether you control it or it controls you.

Posted by: i.n. on June 19, 2009 at 9:30 AM | PERMALINK

It's not the anger that's the problem, LeMal. It's what you do with it and whether you control it or it controls you.

Thanks for the long-distance diagnosis, Senator Frist. I'll give it all the consideration it merits.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 9:31 AM | PERMALINK

Hey, Myke K, was that you standing with Shrub cheering on the Texas Rangers, last night, and, thereby bringing good fortune to the Astros? Keep showing up for Ranger games as the A's need help in moving up. But, please, both you and Shrub, stay away from any games at Wrigley.

Posted by: berttheclock on June 19, 2009 at 9:33 AM | PERMALINK

Your funeral. Hope the M.I. is quick and painless.

Meanwhile, on to more powerful voices for health care ... the ones who want real reform just as much as you do, but who can express their anger and sense of injustice more rationally.

Posted by: i.n. on June 19, 2009 at 9:35 AM | PERMALINK

As a Curmudgeon First Class, screw Anger Management - Mr LaBonne, son, let it rip.

Posted by: berttheclock on June 19, 2009 at 9:36 AM | PERMALINK

Well written, Ron Byers.

Steve LaBonne: we're all angry. But we don't have to abandon civility. Please tone it down, thanks.

Posted by: terraformer on June 19, 2009 at 9:38 AM | PERMALINK

Wrong, Benen. What Bill Maher was referring to was Bush's ability to muscle extremely bad policies through the system on a phony mandate, namely the Iraq war, and how aggravating it is to see Obama appear unwilling to use his genuine mandate to push through progressive policies that will actually benefit millions of people.

Republicans won't hesitate to hurt people and Democrats will hesitate to help.

Posted by: badass4peace on June 19, 2009 at 9:39 AM | PERMALINK

Whoever you are, if you are not writing your congresscritters to urge them to block this oncoming disaster, you understand nothing about health care reform. Anything resembling the Finance Committee draft must not pass because it will actually make the problems worse while poisoning the well for future efforts at real reform. If you don't get that, you're being anything but "rational".

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 9:40 AM | PERMALINK

In response to this, Lucianne Goldberg's site is calling Gibbs "Gibbels" (scroll down to the photo).

Posted by: Steve M. on June 19, 2009 at 9:47 AM | PERMALINK

If you don't get that, you're being anything but "rational".

Strawman.

I'm doing all that. And considerably more. I get what's happening in this appalling proposed legislation.

You assume that getting that necessitates continually acting like a psycho asshole. You're wrong.

Posted by: i.n. on June 19, 2009 at 9:51 AM | PERMALINK

Oh, c'mon, I know it hurts to admit it guys but Democrats are fey. Evolution will do them in. Survival of the fittest often means survival of the meanest, most voracious predator. Think crocs and sharks. Dems don't have the stomach for this game. Republicans may be wounded but they're still gnawing holes in their opponent's asses. Throw in a little help from the Vichy Blue Dogs and Obama is toast.

Posted by: steve duncan on June 19, 2009 at 9:53 AM | PERMALINK

You assume that getting that necessitates continually acting like a psycho asshole.

I think you need psychological help for your pathological prissiness.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 9:55 AM | PERMALINK

That's the ticket. Never consider the possible merit of others' criticism. As you were! Forge on, wondering why you just can't seem to get people to listen to you. Perhaps an increase in volume and unguided venom will help! It hasn't worked before, but this time it will!

Posted by: i.n. on June 19, 2009 at 10:00 AM | PERMALINK

"We kept score last November, and we won," Gibbs said.

When I look at what's been done so far, the gifts to Wall Street and the thumbs up to business as usual, the shocking continuation of secrecy, and the refusal to address DADT and other civil rights issues, my response to Gibbs is, "Did we?"

Posted by: doubtful on June 19, 2009 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINK

Yeah, because unwillingness to call a spade a bloody shovel HAS worked so well- it's gotten our country into the unparalleled era of peace and prosperity that we currently "enjoy".

Whatever.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 10:06 AM | PERMALINK
When I look at what's been done so far, the gifts to Wall Street and the thumbs up to business as usual, the shocking continuation of secrecy, and the refusal to address DADT and other civil rights issues, my response to Gibbs is, "Did we?"

He wasn't talking about us, he was talking about himself and his boss.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on June 19, 2009 at 10:08 AM | PERMALINK

Forge on, wondering why you just can't seem to get people to listen to you. -i.n.

Your pedantry is no less off-putting. Move on.

Posted by: doubtful on June 19, 2009 at 10:10 AM | PERMALINK

It's tempting, then, to remind Democratic policymakers... "You won."

They may have won the last few elections, but they seem determined to always be losers.

Posted by: qwerty on June 19, 2009 at 10:39 AM | PERMALINK

Labonne your right to get angry and your right to throw civility down a notch, The asshat republicans are basically acting in a way that just screws the whole country and those of you that think just talking nice to them and thay'll see things our way need a plexiglass window in your stomachs so you can see where your going because your heads are up your ass.

Posted by: Gandalf on June 19, 2009 at 10:53 AM | PERMALINK

Steve Duncan - "Fey"? sounds like evolution's already done its number on you.

Posted by: Scott F. on June 19, 2009 at 11:58 AM | PERMALINK

OK, I am joining in because I am pissed off as hell. Our country is a joke. Our politicians are jokes.

We, the majority of voters, elected democrats on '06 to stop the war and put a check on the rogue Bu$h regime. Didn't happen.

We, the majority of voters, elected Obama on '08 to put a stop to Wall Street rapaciousness, to end the war in Iraq, for real health care reform, and to put our contry back on the right track. Isn't happening.

It's as if the powers that be really do not give a shit about this country or the people in it.

As much as I hate to say it, without a different form of government, this country will continue it's downward spiral.

I love my country but hate what it has become. I am no longer going to follow politics like I have for most of my adult life. I am giving up on any and all hope that anything can be done to change the status quo.

I wish the best of luck to the Obama administration, but they have shown too much weakness and have let a minority party with absolutely no power, a party that was soundly repudiated in the last two election cycles, determine the fate of this administration.

Our two party system is corrupt and incapable of change. I can no longer have this stress in my life.

Sorry for the Howard Beale moment but I have had enough.

Posted by: citizen_pain on June 19, 2009 at 12:03 PM | PERMALINK

citizen-pain - I appreciate your frustration. However, collectively, we not only elected Obama but also a representative and two senators. We came together as Americans centuries ago in large part due to unhappiness with an unchecked powerful government. The irony, in most things apolitical, both conservatives and liberals can be most sympathetic to the powerless -- the minority.

With regards to politics, we are more likely to rally behind party identification than policy implications -- and politicians EXPLOIT this for the all important political power.

For example, it is dumbfounding that those trying to protect the environment for future generations are often at odds with those protecting future generations from repaying debt related to spending for which they receive no value and vice versa.


Posted by: m on June 19, 2009 at 12:52 PM | PERMALINK

>"Bush was gracious enough never to wave his mandates in the faces of the opponents he'd vanquished."
1.) He lost the popular vote.
2.) Cheney said they had a mandate from the people.

>"Obama sneaks into office by a couple of points thanks to ACORN and we're all supposed to bow down to his Supreme Leadership."

That's President Obama to you, and he won by a landslide, not by a Supreme Court ruling.

Posted by: The Sailor on June 19, 2009 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

If dems don't give us what we voted for it doesn't mean we'll go running back to electing republicans again...it just means we need better dems. At least their lies are on the right track even if they don't perform as promised.

As said above..."What else can we do"...we can already see who we need to replace and hopefully we can get good primary challengers to these blue dog and DINOS.

The main message now should be "Stop trying to appease republicans. We voted them out and voted against a continuation of their policies and ideas. They have no concept of bipartisanship besides getting dems to filibuster with them".

Posted by: bjobotts on June 19, 2009 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

Sailor, should I ask Senators Hutchinson and Cornyn, as well as, Congressman Sessions to disregard there campaign promises and agree to anything the President chooses to propose?

The Soldier

Posted by: m on June 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINK

Posted by: Ron Byers on June 19, 2009 at 9:03 AM

An article called the "Money Party" sums this up nicely claiming that the leadership of both parties belong to the money party whose main purpose is to protect the profiteering of the wealthy 2%.

Only way to break the money party is removing corporate personhood; campaign finance revolution allowing public financing only; and reversing the Reagan Tax cuts. Those 3 things would save our democracy and our economy. Our elected leaders will do everything possible to ensure these 3 things will never happen.

Posted by: bjobotts on June 19, 2009 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

We could also eliminate party identification. Is Nelson really a Democrat and is Collins really a Republican?? And Spector ... well he seems to be an opportunist.

Posted by: m on June 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

Republicans flogged its critics with the word "mandate" for the better part of a decade, and look where that got us. Maybe progressives could find a better method of governance than using the same cudgel as Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the right wing.

Posted by: Jon Karak on June 19, 2009 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

Progressive thought. With 21st century technology why don't we allow individual taxpayers -- within limits-- to earmark where their tax dollars should be applied.

Education
Infrastructure
Defense
Conservation
Energy
Social Services
Social Security
etal.

Posted by: m on June 19, 2009 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

Couldn't agree more. It's beginning to look like Obama's biggest obstacles are being thrown down by ostensible members of his own party. What's the point of winning if you're not going to do what you told the voters you were going to do. The vote was for 'change' - from what I'm hearing the past couple of days, Congress is the one that really needs to change.

Posted by: consumetheconumer on June 19, 2009 at 2:29 PM | PERMALINK

I guess I am just an old codger, but I am upset at the gutter language that seems to take the place of reasoned argument. Do you guys talk like that to your mothers?

Posted by: Jim B on June 19, 2009 at 5:42 PM | PERMALINK

As to Ron Byers: Congratulations; you put forth a reasoned suggestion. I disagree, though; the "personhood" of corporations simply recognizes that they are commercial entities which can sue or be sued. Public financing of elections? Would you want the Repubs deciding who gets what and when? Reversing the Reagan tax cuts is in the works...see how you like it when it happens.

JimB

Posted by: Jim B on June 19, 2009 at 5:51 PM | PERMALINK

I will never get the civility police. Don't they understand that the only way they get anything done is because the other side is afraid of the uncivil people? We'll be unreasonable, and you can get the credit. Now get to it.

Posted by: Punditus Maximus on June 19, 2009 at 9:28 PM | PERMALINK

Saying "We won" is fine, right up to the moment when it isn't.

It's important to realize that the complete package of things a candidate stands for might not have been what sold the public on that candidate. They might like 70%, but detest a few other things.

So, I suggest listening to the public when they say they're concerned about too much debt. Likewise Republicans should notice the public wants a public option in the healthcare reform legislation. Some people use such things to political advantage, but I think it's just important to not go overboard with what you want and forget the public isn't far from the next ballot box.

Posted by: MarkH on June 19, 2009 at 11:56 PM | PERMALINK

to remind Democratic policymakers, as they negotiate with the shrinking minority party and back down on key priorities, "You won."

yea, but many, maybe most democrats are closer to republican positions than the positions of the American voter, so what difference does it make. Democrats didn't really win so much as republicans lost.
.

Posted by: pluege on June 20, 2009 at 12:01 AM | PERMALINK

Jim B: the personhood of corporations does NOT simply recognize that they are commercial entities which can sue or be sued. It gives them the full rights under the constitution and the law of real, flesh-and-blood people, without any of the responsibilities or handicaps. This effectively makes them immortal artificial "people", with virtually unlimited resources and without any of the ethics or conscience or limitations of *real* people, and who's sole purpose is to gain power and money. If possible, ALL the power and money. It's not hard to see how this might cause problems, and in fact just look around and you can see how they might tend to take over the world.

As they have done. The supreme court made a big mistake when they made that decision, and now it's gonna be a bitch to undo it.

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