Khamenei is a lot like the Republicans. He may as well have said, "We own the media. We own the math. We laugh at those who even perceive deception."

As an aside, how interesting you include the article from the two correspondents of the LA Times. Not long ago, Sam Zell wanted to disband all foreign reporting operations. "Wise" old Sam believed cats up trees in Silver Lake trumped all for "important" news. However, inaugurations prior to elections save ever so much time.

it's also a perfect illustration of how democracies are lost -- its citizens sit on their asses while their rights, their economic futures and their social contracts are ripped apart and thrown down the rathole.

Regardless of what eventually happens in Iran, the demonstrations have succeeded in forcing the government to reveal more and more of its true nature to the people. That the authorities, religious leaders no less, are willing to go to any means to preserve power unto themselves is not likely to be forgotten.

"This is how countries that have freedom and democracy get it... They have to fight and die for it."

Isn't it amazing how the people who seek freedom understand it so much better than the fat-assed, fat-headed, neo-con chicken hawks who inherited it -- believing it's some sort of natural right, a "gift" that can be given or imposed through intervention.

Sad to think many of those described supra by beep52 once considered themselves to be liberals. At least, several were from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party, i.e, strong on defense, but, believers in needed social programs. Would Scoop even recognize them, today?

Steve, re: "since the Iranian regime wouldn't necessarily have any trouble assigning vote totals as it saw fit",
On what basis do you say this ? Do you have enough of an understanding of their legal system to make such a statement with confidence ? If so, what is your background on this ?

Well, if it was such an overwhelming landslide as they claim, how come there hasn't been millions & millions of people out in the streets, celebrating that victory?

There have been previous elections, right ? Where there millions out in the streets celebrating after those elections ? I don't pretend to know. Does anyone ?
What still bothers me is the ease with which we project our values onto other cultures and behavior. For me this is the height of arrogance, a characteristic we've inherited from every western power which has had some kind of empire, and perhaps one of our ugliest traits. Have we learned nothing from our cheer-led and clumsy invasions and decimation of Iraq and Afghanistan ?

"On the first point, tampering with 11 million votes, I can't speak to the audience's laughter, but it seems funny to me since the Iranian regime wouldn't necessarily have any trouble assigning vote totals as it saw fit."

Actually, on the Charlie Rose show a few nights back, Dr. Flynt Leverett made the point that Iran has a decades long history of very contested elections, and that as with anywhere there can always be some irregularities, but their election process, with it's legal checks and balances, simply does not allow for wholesale fraud on the level of tens of millions of votes.