O, but if Obama only were to speak out more forcefully, then everything would be all right.

At one time southern whites were just as cruel toward black slaves. Sooner or later there will be accountability for such cruelty.

The blow back, when it comes, is going to be extremely ugly.

The mullahs and their henchmen are going to reap what they've sown.

we might not have "bullet fees" -- yet -- but we got "rape kit" fees here in the land of the uh, the uh, i'm thinkin', i'm thinkin' -- oh, yeah: the land of "... all others pay cash..."

wow. you would think that abject emotional cruely might be something the current regime would want to avoid. That is the kind of stuff that never heals and creates jihadists. Well played hard-liners. well played.

eric

When will the family get the bill from Ma Barker Bush's Arbusto Oil Company for using 'valuable' energy resources to spread the news?

Obviously the "bullet fee" should be paid by the person who used the bullet. Not the person who stopped it.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to imagine who giving the Iranian people the right to bear arms would have stopped an innocent bystander from being shot. I just don't see it.

There goes what's left of the current regime's legitimacy as an islamic government.

And by "who" I mean "how."

btw...I find this story really hard to believe. It's easy, deservedly or not, to take advantage of this ongoing tragedy making us ready to believe what could be pure propaganda, just to play on our increasing sympathies because I am just filled with disgust and so accepting of horror stories...yet I don't even know where this story originated from, I just see it repeated here.

Bloody republicans are everywhere... even in Iran.

At one time southern whites were just as cruel toward black slaves. Sooner or later there will be accountability for such cruelty.

That's a poor example. Sadly I don't think Southern whites were ever really held accountable for their cruelty towards black slaves. Let's hope Iran does better.

bjobotts - It's reasonable to be skeptical of many stories coming out of Iran, since everything will be thinly sourced. Among other things, Iranian basiji have definitely been on Twitter, spreading disinformation. Look for multiple confirmations on stories, use common sense, etc.

The mullahs and their henchmen are going to reap what they've sown.

"mullahs" is a term for Islamic clergy (often used derogatorily, especially by non-Muslim westerners); its not really appropriate to use it to identify the Khamenei-Ahmadinejad regime as opposed its domestic opposition, since the opposition includes members of the clergy, including fairly senior ones, and, the leadership of the Khamenei-Ahmadinejad regime includes many (like Ahmadinejad himself) who are not clerics, and probably not well described as "henchmen" of any clerics.

Sounds like Iran is buying bullets from KBR at $3k a pop.

I have to wonder about the mental state of the Iranian government. They know these reports are getting out and yet it's having zero impact on their actions. Who is going to stand behind these clown now ?

For all we know this was a legitimate election, but their behavior seems to confirm that even if it was legitimate, it wasn't an election in any sense of the word. This government is proving to the world that it is out-of-touch with reality and it's own people.

You've got a little yellow cake on your chin, ther, Benen.

Until someone can get a ridiculous story like this properly sourced AND confirmed and triple-verified through open sources, it is irresponsible to run.

That it is in the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal is no excuse.

Remember the black guy who killed some guys wife? Or the black guy who carjacked those kids? Or the Iraqis who played hackeysack with Quwaiti preemies? Or how about the scientists with solid evidence of Iraqi WMD?

Try not to be such saps for propaganda operations, please. It's embarassing.

Next year Kaveh Alipour's family will meet on the anniversary of his death and they will talk about the bullet fee. Five years from now his family will meet again to honor his memory and the family will talk about the bullet fee. Ten years from now an even larger family will meet at a wedding and they will talk about the bullet fee. A hundred years from now the bullet fee will be a sore point for his distant relatives on the occasion of a family reunion.

Such an insult to injury doesn't silent protest or beat people down. It gives them focus. The regime has created enemies that will endure long after the memory of the 19 year old man has long faded. Stay classy Supreme Leader, stay classy.

a "bullet fee" is nothing new. stalin used the same tactic to terrify people.

"btw...I find this story really hard to believe. [...] could be pure propaganda"

I totally agree. A lot of what I read about the protests reminds me of "babies torn from incubators," "WMDs spirited away to Syria", "Zarqawi"....

Even the story of the poor young woman Neda. Nobody really knows what happened. I would guess it probably DID happen as reported in the West, but also believe there's about a 30% chance that something even more nefarious occurred. A beautiful innocent girl gunned down and captured (after the shooting) on camera. The propaganda value of that is SO high, many groups might be interested in making it happen. Could be the protesters themselves, knowing how much a telegenic martyr could help the cause, could be foreign intelligence agencies.

But seriously, $3,000 for a bullet? Asked of a grieving family? Maybe there was a problem with the translation, but something is off.

Be careful with this 'bullet fee story'. It sounds like propaganda from the protestors. People on the right side spin yarns in their favor just as good as the bad guys. It reminds me of the 'Iraqis are taking babies out of incubators in Kuwait' story. And $3000 US is a ridiculous amount of money in Iran for a fee of any kind. This story just smells to me.

Thanks for bringing up Neda, flubber. I don't like to mention it, because it seems so heartless, but if someone emails you and says they are the sister of someone killed in Iran, how the hell are you supposed to know if it's true or not? You can't. But you feel compelled to publish it anyway, because you want to believe it, and you want to feel like you are part of the story, too.

But "the sister" could be a sister, it could be a fellow Iranian protestor, or it could be Cindy McCain... there's no way to tell.

"Bullet fees" are grotesque Orwellian impositions, but making rape victims pay for their own testing kit is almost as bad. (Are you listening, Sarah Palin?)

could be foreign intelligence agencies.

It's got that written all over it. A mysterious roof sniper shoots a beautiful young woman just standing on the street? Come on....

The increasing credulity of progressives as these events continue to unfold is embarrassing to watch. 30 yrs of anti-Iranian propaganda has certainly done its job.

At least the most guillible and enraged progressives aren't going to be rooting for an unwinnable and counterproductive war.

At least the most guillible and enraged progressives aren't going to be rooting for an unwinnable and counterproductive war.

I wish that I shared your optimism, but not only do I remember how a depressingly large number of so-called progressives rallied around GWB's Afgan and Iraq wars after the shock of 9/11, but I'm having flashbacks in the present every time one of these same folks discusses NKor or Iran.

Shades of "Brazil": OFFICIAL (upon "arresting" Mr. Buttle) I hereby inform you under powers entrusted to me under Section 47, Paragraph 7 of Council Order Number 438476, that Mr. Buttle, Archibald,residing at 412 North Tower, Shangri La Towers, has been invited to assist the Ministry of Information with certain enquiries, the nature of which may be ascertained on completion of application form BZ/ST/486/C fourteen days within this date, and that he is liable to certain obligations as specified in Council Order 173497, including financial restitutions which may or may not be incurred if Information Retrieval procedures beyond those incorporated in Article 7 subsections 8, 10 & 32 are required to elicit information leading to permanent arrest notification of which will he served with the time period of 5 working days as stipulated by law. In that instance the detainee will be debited without further notice through central banking procedures without prejudice until and unless at such a time when re-imbursement procedures may be instituted by you or third parties on completion of a re-imbursement form RB/CZ/907/X... That's your receipt for your husband.
(taking blue book from her)
Thank you. And this is my receipt
for your receipt.

I remember an even larger contigent of progressives on the streets and protesting...

And my definition of "progressive" is someone educated about the dangers of military interventions and someone who knows about the history of the United States' interventions in the last century. There are probably some progressives more focused on domestic policy, but any one even remotely progressive on foreign policy is resistant (ok, not immune) to facile war mongering...

Well, that's at least what I'd say now.

And, what the heck, in for a pound...

http://www.inquisitr.com/26883/new-details-image-and-video-of-neda-iran-emerges/?obref=obinsite

Check out Neda's "identity pic." I have never had such a well lit and posed identity photo. It's a bizzarely high quality photo...

Also, I think the kerning on her scarf is off.

And while we are trading movie quotes... From Wag the Dog:
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: What's the thing people remember about the Gulf War? A bomb falling down a chimney. Let me tell you something: I was in the building where we filmed that with a 10-inch model made out of Legos.
Stanley Motss: Is that true?
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: Who the hell's to say?

I'll get my own blog soon, too, but I recall that the Lebanese released some footage of doctors trying to revive a child apparently wounded by Israeli bombs. The video was fake, because the "doctors" really werent doing anything that made any sense.

Not saying that Neda isn't real, or wasn't shot, but christ, folks, propaganda is a very real and serious possibility. Truth is the first casualty of war.

But it's nobody's interest -- except the Iranian government -- that this is faked, so nobody will really care.

It's amazing that so many people are questioning the death of a young woman.

If it is a hoax, then, let this be a lesson for how foreigners view Americans.

If it is true, this woman was killed, then shame on you for making such outrageous comments.

The sad part is, people don't have a clue as to what goes on different countries. Even more so, the GOP, they like to invade countries without knowing the language, culture, or anything about its people.

Whatever the case may be, this should be a wake up call to the GOP, people of countries in the Middle East, Africa...they will fight to the death. They will use whatever weapon at their disposal to do what they need to do.

Maybe Larry King needs to ask John McCain who are the Secret Police, the Moral Police.....there are different laws for different countries. We don't like their laws, yet, they don't like ours either.

John McCain needs to be asked the hard questions. It's time for him to put up or shut up.

>"A mysterious roof sniper shoots a beautiful young woman just standing on the street? Come on.... "

Could go either way on whodunnit.

On one hand it looked like something the Israelis would do. They would certainly have an interest in stirring up trouble in Iran.

On the other hand, I don't put things past the generic right-wing crazies either. I remember in Serbia some of these nice folks were shooting dark-haired children playing in the streets... just 'Killing Turks' one sniper casually explained.

From what I could see, she was dressed in modern clothing and apparently didn't even have a headscarf on... that would certainly make her a target to right wingers.

It's been a long day with me on this one. My conclusion is that first, this doesn't matter. People ARE being killed on the streets for protesting; whether this one video is faked or not doesn't make a difference to the situation on the ground. It could be art -- aka the lie that reveals the truth -- or it could be, you know, just the truth.

Second, that I don't know for sure whether it is real or if it is faked, but none of the coverage I've seen addresses any of the obvious doubts. Not just the provenance of the video, but simple things like the role of militias in attacking protestors, and how it works. For instance, one of the key reasons I doubted this video was just the story... we are having the discussion in a threads conversation on a blog, when it should be part of the newstory talked about, you know, people who know shit. I also don't know what the burial customs are there, for instance, but from what little I know anytime anyone is killed there is a big march down the street with a coffin and then the government or a competing sect throws bombs and I get to see Peter Jennings talk about it at 7:03. (ok, i have old information, clearly).

That's in a general sense, news-story sense. But for a specific look, would it be so hard to get a few experienced EMT and ER docs together with magicians and movie gore artists for a quick discussion? It would take maybe an hour of their time and we could get a lot of information, instead of running around wondering and accusing each other of insensitivity and credulity.

Bleh. All I'm saying is I don't know, nobody else knows, and nobody seems to be bringing any information to the table.