Thanks for the additional detail, Steve.

I gave up on AmericaBlog during the election, and Aravosis has become even more kneejerk and unreliable since then.

So if CAPT Brown is to be believed, this was about the job? Was something special on the boat being guarded? Was something stolen, sabotaged? Is this now terrorism? His statement raises more questions than it closes out (if his reason to assert this is to move the discussion away from hate crimes).

It seems that this incident is/will become an opportunity for the Right, Left, and In Between to pile on with smears, half truths, and innuendo. . .

the details help dispel some of the rumors. nothing will prob discourage those who want to blame obama for too much or too little.

but the idea that it was not a hate crime (just a crime crime?) is a little hard to believe from what we know.

was the navy running medicinal marijuana? oh, okay...

If I was the Navy, I would release a map showing the location of that guard shack if I was going to go with the "anyone could have been killed there" argument.

In fact, there are grounds for this being true, if we were to assume that guard shack was on the east side of the base. Camp Pendleton is the last large open space in Southern California, right at the border of northern San Diego County and southern Orange County. There are lots of mountains to the east, and it's a fact that smugglers have been using those mountain areas because they are not as tightly patrolled by the Border Patrol. Given the turn to violence by Mexican drug gangs, a killing to get rid of a guard in an isolated post would be believable.

But again, that all depends on where the event happened.

Steve,

There was absolutely NOTHING in that report that indicated that the Obama administration was doing "nothing". All that was, was John Aravosis' extreme kneejerk reaction to ANYTHING government related to the lgbt community. He has been incredibly reflexive as of late, and appears to have some sort of personal vendetta (to all those Aravosis supporters, I don't think he's mad about the Doma brief, read lawdork.wordpress.com for more info).

In sum, to take anything he says at face value would be a horrendous mistake.

Talk from one side of a bitter, often hateful nature that leads to people (soldiers, no less) and abortion doctors, etc. being killed - wrong to pin on them, what - are you against free speech? And people do things on their own ...

Talk of a usually snarky nature from the other side that is alleged to pressure some poor self-inflicted prima donna out of office after many mistakes of her own - a horrendous act of personal and political destruction.

Get it?

I wonder if race AND orientation were both involved? The black community is very homophobic, and they might be more offended by a gay black person than a gay white one. Of course, white racists are also no friend to gay black people, either. Never mind.
--
I am not buying the drug runner theory at ALL. Why would they burn the body? That's something somebody personally involved in the murder, someone who feels guilt and knows the victim and is going to be involved in the society of the victim and is vulnerable to getting caught... nope, ain't the mejicans.

Elements of "A Soldier's Story" in this.

"Third, Navy Capt. Matt Brown, a career Navy officer (not a political appointee), … suggested Provost's killing may have been more a matter of his location and timing, not his race and sexual orientation."

Geeze, Steve, and we always know that military information officers always tell the absolute truth without fail and never “tweak” information to make their branch of the service look less bad. Uh-huh. Does the name Pat Tillman ring any bells?

John Aravosis (who was, until the Nineties not merely a Republican but a foreign policy advisor to Ted Stevens) has done much good for our community (I think most of you know I am bi), but recently he is turning into the "gay Rush Limbaugh." And his dittoheads (hi, nanuq) quote him just as unquestioningly.

We criticize republicans for acting this way, but it is good to remember we can do the same -- and VERY gratifying to see how many of you have seen through him.

Where is the record that the Navy will conduct a proper investigation? The opposite exists. Remember the explosion on a battleship that the Navy claimed was a gay jealousy bit? It wasn't true. The administration need do nothing knowing the Navy will do the coverup for them. It only remains for the coverup to be validated.

If Obama and Co. really intended to do something about DADT this incident would be the crystalization nuclei around which some rational new policy would be formed. We have laws named after other crime victims. Isn't about time there was one for a victim of gay bashing? Matthew Shepard comes to mind, but August Provost sounds good to me.

Well, the track record of the military in dealing with anti-gay violence has not exactly been stellar over the years. One of the shipmates who did the following to Allan Schindler in 1992 was sentenced to less than three months for the murder (http://www.chipbrown.net/articles/martyr.htm):

"He had eight broken ribs, fractures in the back of his skull and in the bones around his eyes; his nose was broken; his upper jaw was broken; the whole middle portion of his face was detached and floating loosely. There were bruises and cuts on the surface of his neck, head, and chest; there were bruises on his brain, on his lungs, his heart. The pericardial sac around his heart was filled with 250 milliliters of blood, enough to top off a juice glass. His liver had been turned to pulp “like a tomato smushed up inside its cover.” The impact of blows to the chest had torn his aorta; his bladder had been ripped open; his penis had been bruised and lacerated. There were sneaker-tread marks stamped on his forehead and chest. The pattern of his T-shirt had been impressed on his skin. Seven months later Commander Edward Kilbane, the forensic pathologist at Okinawa who had performed more than one thousand autopsies, would testify that he had never seen a more severe beating. The sailor’s injuries were worse than the damage to a person who’d been stomped by a horse; they were similar to what might be sustained in a high-speed car crash or a low-speed aircraft accident."

Let's hope times have changed.

I know very little about the Provost case -- just that it happened and that his family suspects hate crime reasons. And I don't read Aravoisis, so don't think I'm influenced by whatever he says/writes/thinks. But, Benen's automatic acceptance of what an official says because he's "a career Navy officer (not a political appointee)" had me in stitches; Steve, it's not like you, to be so trustingly naive. Don't you remember Pat Tillman?

The point Steve made, libra, was not that Moore is automatically trustworthy -- but that he wasn't a political appointee, and thus Aravosis was lying in claiming that he was 'part of the Obama Administration' and thus part of the cover-up. (I know a little something about this because I was the one to e-mail Steve about this.)

Moore has NOT denied it was a hate crime, he has simply stated that there might have been other reasons for the crime, as there may well have been. (In fact TCinLA makes a very good point above.)

In fact, my original response was precisely the same as rrk1's above, that this would be a good spur to ending DADT. And, if it DOES turn out to be a hate crime it may serve just like that.

But gays do get killed for reasons having nothing to do wityh the fact they are gay. Blacks do get killed for other than racial reasons. Sailors do get killed for other reasons than they are sailors.

I can hear a certain right-wing loudmouth saying (around his super-sized cigar) that "See, Obama's election has unleashed the anti-militarism of the leftwing. Case in point, the brutal murder of a sailor in San Diego on July 1st." Nonsense, almost certainly, but his listeners would be quoting it for months -- just the way the zaravois dittoheads are quoting his "This is a cover-up by the Obama Administration.

No one is saying that we must trust Brown or the other investigators. All I am saying is that
WE
DON'T
KNOW
THE
FACTS
HERE
YET.

And jumping to the conclusion that, because Obama -- who has, in fact, very little actual contact with the investigation (Steve's point and mine) has not immediately decided this is gay-bashing means that this is part of 'the cover-up' that the 'raging gay hater' is conducting isn't just Limbaugh-like, it's approaching the absurdity of the birthers.

Libra, you know I have admired you from the Carpetbagger days. You are a remarkably clear-headed commenter. But this time you are simply 'arguing ahead of the evidence.'

I don't care why Prevost was killed, I want his killers caught. And yes, if it turns out to have been gay-bashing, I expect to see the August Prevost law introduced -- and backed by the President -- who has, so far, been the most gay-friendly President in history. (Not a high hurdle, admittedly, since Clinton -- not the Republicans -- gave us DOMA and DADT and i don't remember Carter ever mentioning us when he was in office.)

Imeant "Brown" not "Moore.' Stressful day, with a slightly ill 13-year old cat whose medicine has the side effect of explosive diarreah (sp?) and who never had the best 'aim' to begin with. Cleaning the floor of the cat room (our cats have their own room for meals and catboxes) twice a day frazzles you.

I know. I know, "more than you needed to know."

So wait. A US sailor was shot, on a military base, while on guard duty? That is either an act of war or an act of treason.

Let me reiterate. This was a US military man shot and killed in the performance of his legal duties. How many US servicemen or women have been killed while on active duty in the United States lately? He was killed on a base, while doing his duty. The person who did this is a traitor. That cannot be made clear enough. And traitors hang.

Wow, I don't understand why people always say that blacks are homophobic.

I have blacks, whites, native americans, egyptians, lebanese in my family.

I think some of the people making these statements are just repeating this statement that they have heard from other people. Just like when the proposition passed in Cali-the right tried to blame blacks for this.

To make this clear - anyone and probably everyone, who knows someone who have been to prison, or even jail - 9 out of 10 have had a same-sex relationship, whether it was voluntary or involuntary.

It is harder to be accepted as a LGBT in the Muslim world, conservative-christian.

It's time to stop blaming blacks for everything. Casey Anthony blamed a Puerto Rican for her child's disappearance, then you had another lady blame a black guy of kidnapping her daughter and stuffing them in the trunk. This should be considered hate crimes - to blame people of a minority groups for a crime the minority never committed.

first of all.. I knew august provost personally. He was a nice guy and wanted nothing but the best for everyone. The mere fact that these "assassins" had to do something like this is completely appalling. This is bullshit and as a sailor i hope that whoever did this will seek the same fate that they brought upon BMSN Provost. This is sick, and i wish his family nothing but my best regards. We will always remember you, Provost. Not only as the sailor he was, but as the honest and caring person who touched the lives of anyone he encountered.

But this time you are simply 'arguing ahead of the evidence.' -- Prup, @17:07

Since the only argument I made was that one shouldn't trust military (or anyone else, for that matter) to police/investigate themselves, *whether or not* they're political appointees, I don't see how you can say I was arguing ahead of evidence. Evidence that *any* organisation -- including military -- is very likely to cover up anything that's to their detriment is, has been, and will be *overwhelming*.

I do accept however, that -- also as per your message -- I misread what Steve was saying:

"The point Steve made, libra, was not that Moore is automatically trustworthy -- but that he wasn't a political appointee, and thus Aravosis was lying in claiming that he was 'part of the Obama Administration' and thus part of the cover-up."

That's because, not having read Aravosis, I didn't know what his accusations were and what Steve was *really* rebutting. All I knew, was that it looked like Steve was taking Brown's statement on its face value, just because Brown was career military and not a political appointee.

'And [Aravosis'] dittoheads (hi, nanuq) quote him just as unquestioningly.' ~ Prup

Well, 'Prup,' first you should admit that you know nothing about me. Then you should apologize for making unwarranted assumptions. I don't read Americablog. Did once a few years ago, and that was plenty.

Anyone who has been subject to persecution or discrimination on the basis of gender, skin color, sexual orientation, religion (or lack thereof), or 'handicap,' knows full well that cops and military are quite adept at coverups and quite prone to use them to pretend that racism, homophobia, and other anti-social beliefs don't exist in THEIR organizations.

And you'll note that Pat Tillman's death, which I mentioned in my comment, presumably had nothing to do with racism or homophobia -- and they STILL lied to his family and the rest of the country. Coverup is the default setting.

To the individual above asking about the location of the guard shack, it is on the west side of the base, well within the confines of Camp Pendleton, south of San Onofre and west of Edson Range. It is a well-lit area as these gates tend to be, from which a long approach road is clearly visible. It is very close to the I-5 and visible from the freeway, though separated from that freeway by fencing and barbed wire. For any locals, the giant cement wall along the 5 reading "Honor, Courage, Committment" and "No Beach Out Of Reach" is the landmark under which the shack sits.
Having stood in that shack for countless hours myself, I can say that the only people that go far enough out of their way to reach that gate are those with an official reason to be there. Save the occasional strange interactions with freeway drivers on the shoulder, it's generally a quiet post.

Since the Navy did lie to the victim's family and to the press in the Allen Schindler (an anti-gay murder) case why should we believe anything the Navy has to say without independent verification?

"Provost made no complaint of harassment to his chain of command"

Why would he make a complaint... that would just get him fired!

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Nope! August was killed because he stopped a guy and his non military cousin from coming on base. The one guy had been resently speaking about burning a hovercraft.

My friend August wouldn't let them on base and paid the consequences. Please quit reducing his life to a gay/straight issue. He was a sailor first and foremost and was protecting our country!!!

Don't use my friend for your agenda!! He was and is a hero!!