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Tilting at Windmills

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July 9, 2009

THE RIGHT'S TWISTED OBSESSION.... Far-right lawmakers seem to realize that it's probably going to cost them if they compare Democratic leaders to Nazis, so they've embraced a more subtle way of making the same argument.

Take Sen. Jim DeMint (R) of South Carolina, arguably the chamber's most right-wing member, who promoted his book, "Saving Freedom," at the National Press Club last night, and delivered this doozy:

"Part of what we're trying to do in 'Saving Freedom' is just show that where we are, we're about where Germany was before World War II where they became a social democracy. You still had votes but the votes were just power grabs like you see in Iran, and other places in South America, like Chavez is running down in Venezuela. People become more dependent on the government so that they're easy to manipulate. And they keep voting for more government because that's where their security is. When our immigrants get here, they're worried, because they see it happening here."

DeMint said he does not believe the United States is on the brink of revolution, preferring to see changes made in "a civilized way."

I'll just take this opportunity to suggest that while Democratic leaders continue to reach out to Republicans to form "bipartisan consensus" on key issues, perhaps DeMint should be excluded from the discussions.

We have, after all, heard all kinds of talk about "pre-WWII Germany" from right-wing radio shock-jocks and bloggers, but DeMint is ostensibly a member of the United States Senate. If he's decided to be Rush Limbaugh in a suit and an accent, he's not to be taken seriously.

Steve Benen 1:15 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (101)

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Comments

But wait... I thought Barack Obama was a socialist, or so timid that he was Jimmy Carter 2.0.

Why can't these people make up their alleged minds?

Posted by: Mustang Bobby on July 9, 2009 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

This is the only way the Republican leaders and Rush Savage Hannity can appease the racists without themselves appearing to be overtly racists.

Posted by: gregor on July 9, 2009 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

For Americans like Sen. DeMint, the canyons of their minds run very deep - to the depths of primordial malarky! -Kevo

Posted by: kevo on July 9, 2009 at 1:17 PM | PERMALINK


if anyone knows nazi's...

its a republican...

Posted by: mr. irony on July 9, 2009 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

I think DeMint is actually comparing the Obama administration to the Weimar Republic, which means that the Democrats are not actually Nazis, but are paving the way for Nazis to come to power. That would make the present-day allegory for the Nazis a current political party which has the support of about 37% of voters. You know...Republicans.

Posted by: commie atheist on July 9, 2009 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

But, but, but...

DeMint seems to be talking about the Weimar Republic, but that ended in 1933 and not in 1939. It also wasn't a "social democracy", after 1920 only one social democrat was chancellor: Hermann Müller, for a bit under 2 years ending in 1930. After that, the German Reich was run by right-wingers under the increasingly autocratic rule of President Hindenburg -- the one who appointed that H. guy chancellor in January 1933.

Senator DeMint and History 101: EPIC FAIL.

Posted by: ogmb on July 9, 2009 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

You can't spell "douchebag" without "DeMint."

Posted by: BGinCHI on July 9, 2009 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

Are you sure about that spelling, Steve? I think it's DeMent.

Posted by: tamiasmin on July 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

Ms. Bachmann been beating that drum for a long time. This is not an isolated public official, it's a band of misfits.

Posted by: bodacious on July 9, 2009 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

...we're about where Germany was before World War II where they became a social democracy.

They're a social democracy now. Proving?

What a moron. He's like the Human Events edition of Refrigerator Poetry Magnets™.

Posted by: Davis X. Machina on July 9, 2009 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

Why get all lathered up about anything these rightwing assholes say about anything. If you haven't figured out that they'll say anything, lie about anything, do almost anything to try and maintain or gain power then you haven't been paying attention.

Posted by: Gandalf on July 9, 2009 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

DXM, that is a terrible thing to say about Refrigerator Poetry Magnets, which I like much much better than Sen. DeMint.

Posted by: zeitgeist on July 9, 2009 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

DeMint isn't in any discussions of bipartisanship. Those are limited to about 5 GOP Senators--Collins and Snowe, Grassley and Voinovich (sometimes), Specter before he came over. That's really about it. Plus the Conservadems.

Posted by: Mimikatz on July 9, 2009 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

Fascinating drivel! DeMint demonstrates clearly the right-wing's utter hatred and contempt for democracy!

"You still had votes but the votes were just power grabs like you see in Iran, and other places in South America, like Chavez is running down in Venezuela. People become more dependent on the government so that they're easy to manipulate. And they keep voting for more government because that's where their security is."

So, if people vote for "more government" that means it's a "power-grab" not a democracy.

The fact that Chavez wins free election after election is proof that he's a dictator! Nobody we don't like, especially not anybody who favors SOCIALISM can be democratic! Only right-wingers (even if they're fascist generals who take power in a coup) can be that!

Because, of course, nobody would vote for "more government" ordinarily. Obviously people voting for "more security" to better their own lives is undemocratic.

Conclusion: DeMint: "I a complete Ass-hat who doesn't actually know SQUAT about 1930's Germany but I'll compare Obama to Hitler without coming out and saying it! Why? Because I don't like him! He's popular. And too many of the wrong people voted!"

Posted by: Cugel on July 9, 2009 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

So I guess DeMint is hoping that his National White People's Republican Party will take over like Hitler's National Socialist German Workers Party (or Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei just for purity, er, clarity) did back in '33.

Or something. Maybe he just got a bad batch of gefilte fish last week and is really annoyed about it. Oy.

Posted by: Curmudgeon on July 9, 2009 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

jim demint is a traitor to the united states of america.

he should be removed from office and arrested for treason and put on trial for it. and if found guilty, he should be hung.

You assholes in on the extreme right want to go up agst me in hyperbole? ... yer welcome.

Posted by: neill on July 9, 2009 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

DeMint is confused about why we don't like Hugo Chavez. It's not because he's a power-grabber. Sure, immediately after he was elected in 1998, he changed the Venezuelan constitution to extend presidential terms and powers. But he also had to stand for election in 2000. The changes also allowed for presidential recall elections, which Chavez survived in 2004. When Chavez tried to abolish presidential term limits, voters said no. All in all, a robust democracy.

What we don't like about Chavez is what he does with his duly-authorized presidential powers, not how he obtained them.

Posted by: Grumpy on July 9, 2009 at 1:57 PM | PERMALINK

It's been the same fucking tune from these assholes for decades. I'm reading a book on the Kennedy years. Same shit coming from the same place. And that ended well!

Posted by: Jay B. on July 9, 2009 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

Republicans have been calling all things government "dictatorial" since at least the New Deal. Southerners have been calling the federal government dictatorial since long before they joined the Republican party. Indeed they have been calling the government of the United States dictatorial since the founding of the Republic and formed an armed rebellion to overthrow that government, mostly to protect the freedom of Southern elites so they could run an aristocratic plantation economy.

South Carolina is a third world region in a first world country. Hell, if it wasn't for wealth transfer from Connecticut and the rest of liberaland it would be a third world country. If the Republican party, which is now the party of the South, ran the country for any amount of time the entire US would be like South Carolina- no tax, no infrastructure, semi-segregated, old time religion and belligerent nationalism.

The latest "liberal-fascism" meme that seems to confuse liberals is just a repackaging of an old old insult. But this is just the old propaganda so it doesn't have to make sense or square with anything to do with real fascism or Chavez it is just name-calling to get the opposition to react with "We are not fascists or Chavez's friends because...". It is tar baby propaganda. If you answer it you get all stuck. Best thing to do is not take the bait and just talk about how the entire leadership of South Carolina is a failure.

Posted by: bellumregio on July 9, 2009 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

So, Senator Demented, how far back is "pre-war"? The last national election in Germany was in March, 1933. After Hitler consolidated his powers, he was able to pass an Enabling Act. As a result banning of opposition parties began. Thus, no need for any further elections. Ironically, Senator, you keep referring to our President as a Socialist. Hitler banned the SDP forcing their leaders to hit the road for Prague.

So, who has introduced an Enabling Act in Congress? I'm sure you believe in term limits - Well, Hitler said he was only going to serve one term. He just never told the German people how long that term was to become. Senator, you really should go back to Head Start.

Posted by: berttheclock on July 9, 2009 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

It's a given that the Republican party should attract at all times a small portion of the electorate. Their device for expanding their appeal is often called fear mongering. What it is more precisely is xenophobia. Appeals to X don't have to be rational,specific, or consistent.

Posted by: Michael7843853 on July 9, 2009 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

DeMint clearly doesn't know beans about history, but he is buying into the right's attempt to rewrite the political lexicon so that both communism and fascism will be seen as products of the left. This means we liberals are responsible for all the evils of recent history and conseratives are innocent lambs.

Posted by: Virginia on July 9, 2009 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK


I know it's a pointless task trying to decode wingnut screeds, but for the life of me I can't figure out what manner of revisionist fantasy DeMint is trying to describe.

"We're about where Germany was before World War II where they became a social democracy."

Which would be 1918, yes?


"You still had votes but the votes were just power grabs like you see in Iran, and other places in South America, like Chavez is running down in Venezuela."

Which would seem to be describing the post-1933 period when the Nazi Party used staged elections and plebicites as power-grabs, but that was long after "Social Democracy" went out of the window.

"People become more dependent on the government so that they're easy to manipulate. And they keep voting for more government because that's where their security is."

That didn't happen in any pre-War Germany I've ever read about.


I think this is just another example of GOP officials speaking in a tongue only their own Base can understand.

Posted by: Tony J on July 9, 2009 at 2:20 PM | PERMALINK

And they keep voting for more government because that's where their security is.

How did this guy live through the Bush administration constantly shrieking "9/11" to shut up their critics, FISA abuses, the Plame outing, etc., etc. and decide that it's Obama who is pushing our country toward fascism?

Posted by: David Bailey on July 9, 2009 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

Wow, we live in the modern equlivant of Weimar. I didn't know that. But NOW that I do, I can have a lot more fun. So it onward to the local Caberet so I can BE like ELSIE...

Fro Caberet...

I used to have a girlfriend
known as Elsie
With whom I shared
Four sordid rooms in Chelsea

She wasn't what you'd call
A blushing flower...
As a matter of fact
She rented by the hour.

The day she died the neighbors
came to snicker:
"Well, thats what comes
from to much pills and liquor."

But when I saw her laid out like a Queen
She was the happiest...corpse...
I'd ever seen.

Posted by: Kurt on July 9, 2009 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINK

Pre-WWII Germany was a 'social democracy'?

WTF, one of the first things the Nazis did was the so called 'Gleichschaltung' in which they eliminated all parties with the exception of the NSDAP and disbanded most social organisations in order to replace them with structures of which they controlled every aspect.

Posted by: SRW1 on July 9, 2009 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

An addition:

The Weimar Republic is ususally considered Post-WWI. Pre-WWII Germany means the period after the Nazis came to power in January 1933.

Posted by: SRW1 on July 9, 2009 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK

Among the dominant supporters of National Socialism and Hitler were the lower middle class, that is small businessmen and small farmers whose savings were wiped out during the inflation of the 1923-24. Now which party, I wonder, represents small business and the farm community in this country? And which party brought about the worst economic crisis in this country since the Great Depression? The right never seems to be able to get its historical analogies to fit the facts.

Posted by: Robert Abbott on July 9, 2009 at 3:27 PM | PERMALINK

Cugel:

Because I don't like him! He's popular!

That sounds like a Yogiism: "Nobody likes him-- he's too popular."

Posted by: steverino on July 9, 2009 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINK

Shorter DeMint: "Just give us what we want, and then nobody gets shot."

Posted by: Bokonon on July 9, 2009 at 3:40 PM | PERMALINK
Far-right lawmakers seem to realize that it's probably going to cost them if they compare Democratic leaders to Nazis, so they've embraced a more subtle way of making the same argument.

Are you sure its the same argument? Because if you follow the analogy DeMint lays out, Democrats aren't being compared to Nazis (and, oddly, if anyone is being compared to Nazis, the comparison is clearly intended to be positive.) He says:

"Part of what we're trying to do in 'Saving Freedom' is just show that where we are, we're about where Germany was before World War II where they became a social democracy. [...]"

Ignoring whether this is a valid comparison on DeMint's part, wouldn't that make the Republicans the opposition conservative nationalistic party seeking to gain power against the ineffective "social democratic" and other liberal forces that are jeopardizing the greatness of the nation? Depending on exactly which point in time before WWII one is referring to as the "social democratic" period, that would make the Republicans analogous to either Hindenburg's conservative faction that displaced the first government of the Weimar Republic, or the better known party that challenged even them from farther to the right, and who displaced Hindeburg's faction in 1933, and whose dictatorial powers under the Enabling Act of the same year were opposed only by the Social Democrats.


Posted by: cmdicely on July 9, 2009 at 4:31 PM | PERMALINK

What's really ironic is that while DeMint and our side argue stupidly over whether cap-and-trade = fascism, the Obama Admin is taking most of Bush's worst due process abuses and making them worse. See any of Glenn Greenwald's recent columns. That both sides pretty much allow this to go on without complaint should warm the cockles of any real fascist's heart, and is a good example of how the destruction of democracy can and does proceed apace behind a smokescreen of "change."

Posted by: Qbert on July 9, 2009 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

This really ought to be a bigger scandal than Sanford and Ensign's boinking around.

Posted by: kc on July 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM | PERMALINK

Fascism is extreme *right-wing* ideology and was flirted with in many ways in the first eight years of this century.

Posted by: stevenz on July 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

When I think of "pre-WW2 Germany", I think of Limbaugh and his ditto-heads in their brownshirt uniforms, kicking Jews, social democrats, non-Nazis and homosexuals into the gutter.

I think of the Mitt Romney/Olympia Snowe Republicans standing on the curb averting their eyes from the spectacle described above.

I see Senator DeMint in his black SS uniform, with the insignia of an Obergruppenfuehrer, a member of the "Leibstndarte SS" shouting "Sieg Heil! Mein Fuehrer!" at the 1934 Nuremburg Rally, with Leni Riefenstahl putting him center-frame.

Posted by: TCinLA on July 10, 2009 at 1:43 AM | PERMALINK

I am so glad they (GOP) are finally admitting that this was their intention all along.

As I said this was the case for them wanting to go into Iran. I said they needed to shutup because our "so-called" enemies had calmed down.

When Boy George was in office, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela, Bolivia all made it clear they will not bow-down, they are the leaders of their own country.

The thing is, noone expected Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan to fight back the way they have. The GOP fail to recognize that people will fight for what's theirs.

The behavior of the GOP is what makes other countries not trust any Americans.

I already know what's happening, they are doing what I like to call "gladiator type ethnic cleansing."

The GOP, however, is afraid to go into any of the African countries. That, and the fact, they are hoping the Africans kill each other. They won't go into Haiti. Then there's a situation about to break with Haiti-Dominican Republic.

Because no one trusts Americans, the Chinese is going into countries we dare to go in. The Chinese are giving grants/loans as a guesture of goodwill for other countries resources.

The Chinese are moving into almost all Caribbean, Latin American and African countries.

All you have to do is listen to people of other countries, and they will tell you, Americans like to bully and cause war to get what they want.

BTW, no one is talking about the 2 American citizens beating and shot to death in Mexico a few days ago.

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