Ah, Hilzoy.
Exactly right - while the GOP is under the delusion that the US lost out during Watergate, the nation gained immense respect internationally. It also created a halo around a newspaper which since has taken that and broken it apart and thrown it away.

McCain would never be able to grasp this, he's too locked into a power play version of force, where all you end up doing is depleting your strength for no real gain.

The Dem's were dismayed that Obama didn't begin issuing instructions to go after Bush administration crimes from Day 1. That would have seemed vindictive and partisan, and could easily have been attacked.
Now he's solidifying his position, and taking measured steps towards reeducating portions of the US, including the media, as to what the Constitution really says, and gain a measure of whether the US wishes to live by those ideals.

It's only been a few months, and even the most fired up GOPer knows that Bush/Cheney was an absolute disaster, on all fronts (with the exception of where they have financial interests).
That realization is serving as a foundation for what Obama, Holder and the various investigative arms of the government can do.

And Congress might want to have a look in the Constitution. Wouldn't hurt, as I doubt they worked hard to get elected, in order to serve as a puppet parliament for someone who actually stole the presidency from the person who was actually chosen to be president/king by the Supreme Court. (Those eight years are too irrational to be properly described, I guess.)

Congress bowed before Cheney, and now they'll want to straighten their backs. Obama will get the support he needs, if this is drawn properly.

And the world will stand in amazement, realizing what the US Constitution can mean, when it's not pissed upon by despots.

"Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, said on "Meet the Press" on NBC that despite his dismay at the Central Intelligence Agency's past interrogation methods, including waterboarding, he opposed a criminal inquiry into torture, which he said would "harm our image throughout the world.""

Translation: McCain enabled "Saddam Lite" (the Bush/Cheney regime)---and the memories of how Saddam "checked out" are still vividly fresh in his mind....

Amen, Hilzoy.

Back when Campaign '08 was just taking shape and I didn't know which Dem to favor, I saw Barack Obama's strongest suit as simply what electing him President would prove to ourselves and the world. Going in, it was the single best argument any candidate had -- and later as his "No Drama" campaign management proved something equally crucial, this remained his strongest appeal.

Now, his single best argument for re-election will be a track record of doing what's right despite political risk. And nothing else his Administration might do will prove him a man of his word as solidly as re-establishing and honoring the rule of law and the independence of DoJ.

Causing the Bush-Cheney thugocracy to pay for its crimes is the essential way to achieve that. So you GO, Eric Holder!

Sounds good, but it will probably never happen.

The last country, I think it was Spain, tried to bring charges against Bush & Cheney failed.

Other countries said if Bush or Cheney step foot on their soil they would be arrested. It never happened.

There are too many odds working against this. First, too many GOP members holding office in Senate & Congress.

In addition, as I stated before, it would take WTO, IMF, U.N., and all the other multinationationals to effect this.

Thing is, we have too many agreements with other nations, or have membership with world organizations.....Surely, because troops from other nations have joined "The War On Terror" it would bring to light some of the wrong-doing, profit-scandals, and other things they don't want us to know about that other countries participated in.

Example, look at Tony Blair, he didn't go away, nor did he retire from politics. He now has a cushy, more powerful, prominent job on a national level.

***BTW, with all the talk about the interest only mortgage loans, these type of financial instruments have been in the U.K. for years. Canada didn't have a problem with their mortgage instruments because they never offered them.

Let's make this clear, I am not a republican.

I am just saying why it sounds good, but what are the chances that Pres. Obama can do this?

Other countries said if Bush or Cheney step foot on their soil they would be arrested. It never happened.

'Course not -- they and their henchmen know better than to budge out of the US. (Not that visiting other countries interests any of 'em anyhow.)

what are the chances that Pres. Obama can do this?

The point is that the Attorney General, not the President, is the one to do this. Eric Holder has to reconfirm that his office is our, the US citizens', law firm, not the Presidency's. And not only is he independent of Obama, but the prosecutor he'll name will be independent of him. These calls aren't Obama's to make.

I don't know. Maybe McCain has a point...

On a similar note, I believe that if WalMart chooses to prosecute me for shoplifting it will harm WalMart's image throughout the shopping world.

Acknowledging the crime is always much worse than the crime itself.

Ah... Political Animal is always the best that takes seriously the idiocy that comes from the right.

The Republican position has always been to enable as much torture as possible:
1. There is no torturing going on.
2. Torture has already prevented terrorists attacks
3. Ok there is torturing going on, but is only against high level terrorist.
4. I'm sorry, did I say torture? I meant enhanced interrogation techniques.
5. Maybe there was some torture going on, but it wasn't sanctioned! Bad apples! Bad apples!
6. So there was widespread torture going on, but it would be worse if we released information about it... or if we prosecuted... or if he we ever talked about it again.

These sons of bitches just love torture, and would do it again given half the chance. They are just trying to stake out a position that's reasonable given the context of the day, and, right now, thank the gods, the right most reasonable position to take is, "it would be worse to prosecute."

As the saying goes, Republican live by the motto: "Block progress always, delay it when possible, dilute it if necessary."

And I wonder your Pakistani friends would think if they saw the domestic shitstorm about Obama being a muslim... Obama means more to them than maybe is strictly accurate.

Rule of law is extremely important. But keep in mind pursuing the crimes of Bush and Cheney will be like Watergate and add many months to passage of virtually every major bill.

Part of the GOP strategy will be to paint the Obama Administration as the anti-Bush/Cheney administration. Republicans will solidify & whine even more than they do about being victims. Talk shows will go non-stop about the investigation. Get ready for half of every press conference being devoted to questions about the CIA, Bush & Cheney. This could actually be good for quitter Sarah Palin & a host of conservative lightweights & ideologues who will burnish their GOP credentials by speaking against the investigation.

How do you create critical economic and social policy in an extremely polarized Congress? The evidence against Cheney needs to be clear and incontrovertible, no question of a vendetta. Obama needs to keep his distance, make it clear this is something Holder feels compelled to do, that they didn't seek out this prosecution. So far I think Obama has positioned himself correctly so that if this prosecution happens it may work.

As a German I'm proud that today I can say the holocaust didn't happen in my name.

I can say this only because we as a nation dealt with our history - and we are still dealing with it and will continue doing this for decades to come.

If you fail to deal with your history, you not only are doomed to repeat it - it also happened in your name simply because your inaction ratifies it.

I see that it's a very difficult political environment, and I can understand if the Obama adminstration would rather post-pone this process. But it has to take place sooner or later if the USA still want to have some moral authority left.

""Since anyone who is reading this probably knows what I think about these questions, I'd like to focus instead on this: "Senator John McCain, ""

Of course you would.
Because when the guy who actually won the election says the exact same thing, that's a little harder for you to deal with.

Does anyone know whether Mitt Romney favours habeas rights for Bagram detainees ? Cmon, somebody must know. If we can't get a soundbyte about what he thinks we might have to acknowledge the position the Obama administration and we simply can't have that.

Anyone who knows Hilzoy knows just how hard she rode Al Gore during the Bush administration on the topic of detainee policy. You couldn't get a word in about the actual President of the US edgeways once she got started on the guy who lost.

Pathetic.

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Anyone who knows Hilzoy knows just how hard she rode Al Gore during the Bush administration on the topic of detainee policy. You couldn't get a word in about the actual President of the US edgeways once she got started on the guy who lost.

Pathetic

The RepuGs and their fellow travelers only believe ends justifying means. Such as Pat Buchanan on Mourning Joe, this day, talking about Bush-Cheney being tough on Al-Quada, but, not one word about the rule of law. Yeah, Pat, just be tough such as your buddy General Abdul Rashid Dostum, a war lord in Afghanistan and a defense official in the Mayor's office, er Karzai's office. Yes, Pat, just stack prisoners of war to the ceilings of containers and leave them out in the Afghani sun. Leaves more room in the prisons and lowers food costs. But, as the General was on our CIA payroll, all is well and no investigations should be pursued, eh? Might hurt relations with Karzai. Yeah, ends do justify means in the warped world of the RepuGs.

If the Republicans have lost Dianne Feinstein, the jig is up.

Funny how corporate suck-ups like DiFi have no problem with any Smirky-Darth program, no matter how illegal or unconsitutional, as long as congress was let in on the juicy-juicy.

But let Darth and the CIA doing something 24-ish behind congress' back and it's all How Dare They!

I'm tempted to say let's not investigate anything DiFi and friends want investigated. Concentrating on the shit DiFi and friends DON'T want investigated will keep us plenty busy for decades.

Bravo.

I'm thinking rice with squash for lunch.

""No, it's pathetic not to notice the difference when the target is a sitting US Senator who is continually going on Sunday shows so that he can spout his opinion.""

Yes, his concurring opinion.

""Al Gore had the grace to fade from the limelight, and he wasn't actually in government any more."" Posted by: Bernard Gilroy

Did you really think that was about Al Gore, you moron ?

Read what's quoted here. Then go to the NYT and read the full quote from McCain. Notice the part that's missing ?
Yeah... that's the difference.

Let's call McCain a Senator of 2 states, governor of 4 and award him 4 stars. That'll either make his as relevant as the POTUS or it won't. Post the rest of that quote for us and tell us which it is Bernie.

"Yes, Pat, just stack prisoners of war to the ceilings of containers and leave them out in the Afghani sun. Leaves more room in the prisons and lowers food costs."
Posted by: berttheclock

No, it kills them by the thousands. Just as thousands were killed by the Taliban during the civil war, by stuffing them into shipping containers to suffocate.

And somehow you think that a Republican being in office when the Taliban were overthrown was a relevant factor in this retaliation occurring.

I'm glad that it now appears there will be investigations of the torture, and in some cases killings, of detainees. Sadly, when it was only a question of crimes against humanity, our political leaders were content to look the other way and pretend nothing had happened. It was only when their vanities were bruised by the discovery the deference owed them by the CIA had also been abused that it became a serious matter!

The one thing the terrorists did accomplish is making America face its own hypocrisy. We either face it or continue it with the entire world now fully aware of our hypocrisy.

Holder holds the keys.

Yes, exactly. The Bushies loved to claim, without any supporting evidence, that our enemies "hate us for our freedoms." Those how have actually studied the sources of anti-American sentiment in many parts of the world have found that while it is true that people are familiar with what America stands for, what turns them against us our failure to live up to it -- support of convenient dictators, avoiding ruffling feathers by mentioning domestic movements in other countries that aspire to "our freedoms," and more.

There is plenty that is not going to turn around, because the US has national interests as well as ideals, and much as I would like it to be otherwise, following the idealistic path is not necessarily going to lead to the best outcome either for our interests or for those striving in other countries. But torture is not like that; it is a domestic matter of the rule of law, which simultaneously demonstrates our ideals to the world.

I hope Holder pulls at the string (or more) and unravels the whole thing. Until those who instituted the policy are held accountable, Obama's promise that America does not torture means only that America does or does not torture on the whim of whoever is elected.

What Vokoban said.

In about 35-40 years, Germany moved from pariah status to the strongest, most respected country in Continental Europe. How? By apologizing for its enormous crimes: repeatedly, consistently, sincerely.

It's not the German economic miracle. Japan had a similar (maybe greater) miracle, but never really acknowledged its relatively smaller crimes. Apologies came, but they were mumbled.

Both Germany and Japan have largely been ruled by conservatives, but nobody was more anti-Nazi than German mainstream conservatives, while Japanese conservatives kept truckling to the war apologists.

Nobody really trusts Japan to this day. Germany has completely redeemed itself. America's crimes in the Bush years were far smaller than Germany's.

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