Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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July 14, 2009

APPROPRIATE FOR TV.... Marcy Wheeler ("emptywheel" ), an award-winning blogger at FireDogLake, appeared on MSNBC yesterday, making the case for investigating Bush-era wrongdoing. Marcy, not surprisingly, presented a very strong argument, but that's not what became noteworthy about her appearance.

In response to remarks from Townhall's Matt Lewis, Marcy argued, "[Y]our idea is that after investigating Bill Clinton for a blow job for like five years, we shouldn't investigate the huge, grossly illegal things that were done under the past administration, only because Alberto Gonzales was too much in the back pocket of Dick Cheney to do it while he was still in office. That's ridiculous."

The problem, apparently, wasn't with the argument, but rather, her choice of words. David Shuster told viewers, "We all say things sometimes when we're passionate that we don't intend, and especially on a dayside family-oriented cable television news network." Anchor Tamron Hall added, "I'm sure she apologizes for that choice of words, she's very passionate about it. I'm sure she apologizes, and we do, too."

Well, I haven't spoken to Marcy about this directly, but I'm not at all "sure she apologizes." I'm not sure she should.

In fact, Marcy elaborated on her own site about MSNBC's discomfort: "[T]he DC press corps, I think, is apparently still horrified by the possibility that you can just say it, like that, blow job, and in doing so, expose it for all its tawdry but ultimately minor import. Perhaps just saying it like that would break the spell they were under for two years, break the magic of the Presidential blow job. I don't know. At some point, though, we as a country have to be willing and able to weigh what the Village did in the late 90s against the massive illegality of the Bush White House and, finally, realize there are more important things than a blow job, and we need to take those more important things at least as seriously as that magic blow job that captivated the press for so long under Clinton."

As long as the network is going issue on-air apologies for comments some viewers might find offensive, perhaps we can also hear some regret for the daily comments of Joe Scarborough? Or more to the point, DougJ noted, "MSNBC apologized for Wheeler's choice of words. They didn't apologize for Pat Buchanan's comments about killing Levi Johnston."

Steve Benen 8:35 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (57)

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Had a opportunity yesterday to watch the SCOTUS hearings and switched from CSPAN to MSNBC for that ever tasty "cheap starchy filler" (a.k.a. Tweety and the new digs).

Throughout the day the anchors laughed about the Buchanan quote, using it as a promo. Buchanan even quoted himself with a chortle when he appeared live. Guess they can't complain about Fox's "baby killer" quotes anymore..

Posted by: Bob Johnson on July 14, 2009 at 8:53 AM | PERMALINK

Hurray...

Wot?
She didn't whimper down and apologize?
How illiberal of her...

Posted by: koreyel on July 14, 2009 at 8:53 AM | PERMALINK

Sigh.

For the longest time, I wanted to get a bumper sticker that said "Please George, get a blowjob."

I thought that a blowjob might kill fewer people than invading Iraq.

Posted by: Jim Ramsey on July 14, 2009 at 8:55 AM | PERMALINK

Well, we'll let this one slide, but don't let us catch you saying anything like 'slicing open some Arab's dick like a Rut's Hut ripper,' or 'fucking a little boy up the ass,' or 'ramming a mop handle up his rectum,' or 'raping helpless captives' assholes with bananas or chemical light sticks,' or 'beating a guy's leg until it liquefies,' or 'gouging his eye out,' or 'ripping a feeding tube out of some guy and ramming it up the next guy's nose without even wiping off the puke and bile and chunks.'

Posted by: MSNBC censors on July 14, 2009 at 9:02 AM | PERMALINK

I am in agreement with Marcy's argument, but I think Marcy made a mistake. The one thing you don't want to do in any argument is allow the other side off the hook. Marcy's choice of words gave the Townhall twit an out.

We aren't talking about the apparent decision to give Cheney and Bush a free pass for all their outrageous usurpations of constitutional power. Instead we are talking about the phrase "blow job." Sorry Marcy, you had a golden opportunity to speak truth to power, but you blew it.

Posted by: Ron Byers on July 14, 2009 at 9:07 AM | PERMALINK

i think marcy is just disgusting... talking about alberto being in dick cheney's "back pocket" eewww!

and should a "framer" really and deliberately use the phrase "blew it" about Marcy?

Aren't these framer-types spoze to be brilliant second-order philosophy of propaganda scientists?

Posted by: neill on July 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM | PERMALINK

I'd pay to see Pat Buchanan taken down to the river, if you know what I mean. MSNBC could make it a pay per view event.

Posted by: oh my on July 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM | PERMALINK

You know what is sad, Marcy probably DID "blow" an opportunity because that's the way the "game" is played today...for instance anyone watching/listening who things the opening remarks of that sleazy Senator Sessions were "polite" towards the nominee (after his typical Southern "butter wouldn't melt in my scummy mouth" comments) is deaf/dumb/blind...TRUTH must not be spoken...it must be written by Frank Luntz!

Posted by: Dancer on July 14, 2009 at 9:14 AM | PERMALINK

The Religious Right is far more squeamish about noneuphemistic language about sex than it is about noneuphemistic language about violence. If you say "blow job," it's offensive because that's about sex. If you say, "suck their brains out," it's not offensive because's that's about violence, when taken literally at least. Sex is bad. Violence is not bad.

The offended Religious Right is far more likely to call, email, otherwise communicate to the media outlet their outrage than others are likely to communicate their indifference. You apologize so you don't have to deal with them.

Posted by: jpeckjr on July 14, 2009 at 9:15 AM | PERMALINK

Ah, puns are up to date in Kansas City, this morning.

The Truth, MSNBC, You Can't Handle The Truth (Thanks, Jack and writers)

But, Tamron Hall is a bit of a twit. During the Caroline Kennedy purported run for the Senate, Hall said that there had been independent criticism of her actions. O'Donnell had to point out to her, very forcefully, that Rep Peter King (R) was going to run for office and was not an "independent" voice of dissent.

Posted by: berttheclock on July 14, 2009 at 9:15 AM | PERMALINK

See, people want to pretend that they are dignified persons, regardless of what they are truly supporting, and they want others to pretend that they are dignified.

I like it when commentators refer frankly to "blow jobs" and although I do not wish Levi Johnston any ill, Buchanan's joke about killing him was amusing (and I don't for one second think Buchanan was serious).

Posted by: Algernon on July 14, 2009 at 9:15 AM | PERMALINK

No wonder the MSM get the vapors. If they can't even be direct about a BLOW JOB then how can we expect them to ask direct questions about Iraq?

Prissy Twits.

Posted by: Former Dan on July 14, 2009 at 9:17 AM | PERMALINK

Violence = the right winger's porn.

Posted by: ogmb on July 14, 2009 at 9:17 AM | PERMALINK

At least she didn't say "torture."

Posted by: RZ on July 14, 2009 at 9:18 AM | PERMALINK

Yeah, ol' Pat is such a jokester - Why, who could take his words seriously about the lack of deaths in the DC subway proving gassing during the Holocaust was a myth or, his extolling those wonders of the world, the Waffen SS. Not to forget putting the words into the mouth of St Ronny, that those Waffen SS buried at Bitburg were "victims". Pat is, indeed, such a kidder.

Posted by: berttheclock on July 14, 2009 at 9:20 AM | PERMALINK

OK, I guess I'm about to have my credentials pulled as a liberal, but... She was wrong to use the words she used. It was during the daytime on a non-subscription channel. Like them or not, there are expectations as to what people will hear, and these comments went over that line. It doesn't win anyone over if they come across blue language in a supposedly safe space. It gives the mainstream media an out and lets them slip past actually discussing the point raised. And, despite that vicarious thrill of being naughty, it doesn't add anything to the argument.

It's just a distraction and a misplayed hand.

Posted by: Bernard HP Gilroy on July 14, 2009 at 9:21 AM | PERMALINK

The game is rigged. You can't "win".

She did good.

Posted by: Joey Giraud on July 14, 2009 at 9:22 AM | PERMALINK

what's esp funny about msnbc's miss manners reaction -- this is the same cable outlet that runs nothing but basic cable porn on the weekends -- prison 'docs'; gruesome rape/murder stories detailed in all their bloody gore.

oh, and buchanan's 'let's drown levi' comment was so funny, he reprised it on hardball later that day -- to the great delight and laughter from tweety and eugene robinson.

Posted by: linda on July 14, 2009 at 9:26 AM | PERMALINK

For years every media gasbag was filling the airwaves with talk of "oral sex". Guess what? Same mental image.

George Carlin would be rolling in his grave at the fact that there are now 9 words you can't say on television, and that two of them are "job" and "blow".

Posted by: Newton Minnow on July 14, 2009 at 9:28 AM | PERMALINK

Except, of course, Clinton wasn't investigated over a blow job- he was investigated for lying under oath (you know - perjury).

And what about Mark Rich?

And Mary Jo Kopechne?

Now there are two subjects worth investigating.

Posted by: t on July 14, 2009 at 9:36 AM | PERMALINK

Wait a second here, isn't David Shuster the one who made all the puns about teabagging on Countdown? He went on about how the protestors are "nuts" and want to give Obama a "tongue lashing" and how they "whipped out" the protests and were "full-throated" in their protests? What about his famous line about how if you are going to have simultaneous teabagging protests all over the country, you're going to need a Dick Armey?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaKAY99fahE

This was a two and a half minute segment. Wheeler said two words and suddenly her argument is invalid because of it?

My guess is if Wheeler were a man, this would not have been an issue.

Posted by: Freddie on July 14, 2009 at 9:37 AM | PERMALINK

"non-subscription" - Please, tell me where I can find MSNBC on a non-subscription basis. Comcast in Portland, Oregon, apparently, has not heard of such.

However, MSNBC has become such a travel network on weekends. Why, they take us to such exotic locales as Angola, Lansing, Leavenworth, Marion, Folsom, Deer Lodge, Walla Walla and the like - Locals are ever so interesting. Quaint customs.

Posted by: berttheclock on July 14, 2009 at 9:38 AM | PERMALINK

On a semi-unrelated note, I do wish she would have put her hair up-- yes, it's superficial, but this is tv, not radio, and some people who may not otherwise care about using a slang term are still less inclined to listen to someone who looks like they've just been doing housework. I don't care for the overly-made-up bimbettes of the right, but they're taught to put on somewhat professional-looking costumes when they want an audience to absorb their message, and it generally works.

I can't believe that media training-- and I know the higher-level bloggers go through it-- isn't covering this.

Posted by: latts on July 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM | PERMALINK

the right (and their lickspittles in the supposedly "liberal" media) do whatever they can to marginalize, trivialize and make ineffective the words, actions & passions of the left. If they can make the messenger come across as loony, or crass, or unreliable or just-plain-"common" then they can dismiss the message no matter how valid that message is.

I've got nothing against the phrase "blow job." Hell, I've got nothing against blow jobs (and for $9.95 a month, you can see for yourself). And I think that even in this year of double-aught-niner, people still are too uptight about language.

But in the venue of MSNBC, Marcy's choice of phrase risked taking emphasis off of the POINT, And on to the PHRASE. And that means the point risks being lost. If this winds up being a slow news day - or more likely, if some Republicans really humiliate themselves trying and failing to trip Sotomayor up - expect some right wing pundits to try to make this an issue. Is this the language that passes for civilized discourse in their certain circles? Yet ANOTHER reason why you should never visit firedoglake, the Daily 'cus' or any other leftwing blogsm when they're not filling your head with lies, they're offending your ears, with hate? What more proof do you need than this young lady using coarse language to shock the masses? It's all they want to do, you know, shock you, blah blah blah...

That's how they operate, that's how they roll, and if necessary, it's what they'll do.

I appreciate Marcy's point, and she's right of course. I take some small degree of solace in that the types of people who would make a fuss over her choice of phrase wouldn't normally be caught dead watching MSNBC. But you know, you just know, that footage, in bleeped form and with the bare-bones minimum amount of head and tail, will make its way on Faux News for Sean & Billo & all the other schnozzles to get the vapors over. The point will be ignored; the words will be discussed ad nauseum, if the news day is slow enough.

Posted by: slappy magoo on July 14, 2009 at 9:43 AM | PERMALINK

I don't see a big conspiracy here, folks, trying to get someone to "simper down" about facts. They just don't want to offend people by having a news program saying "blowjob." Prudish? Perhaps, but also predictable and not all that contemptible.

Why invent more? Just don't say "blowjob."

Posted by: eadie on July 14, 2009 at 9:45 AM | PERMALINK

I like Shuster and Tamron Hall could blow me anytime. But, isn't Shuster the guy who said HRC was pimping Chelsea?

Posted by: Trollkiller on July 14, 2009 at 9:49 AM | PERMALINK

I don't know if this one is really worth getting enraged about. Were Marcy Wheeler's points right? Definitely. Is it important to realize the insignificance of a presidential sex act in comparison to a program of war crimes? Of course. But you can't say "blow job" on the air. You just can't. When you say it on late night TV, it gets bleeped (happens on the Daily Show all the time). I think the reaction from MSNBC could have a lot more to do with FCC regulations than with an unwillingness to "break the spell" people were under in the '90s.

Posted by: YDV on July 14, 2009 at 9:52 AM | PERMALINK

sweet jesus on a stick, the united states of america is such a silly infantile place!

Posted by: neill on July 14, 2009 at 9:58 AM | PERMALINK

Public discourse in the USA suffers from infantile neurosis. That's why we can no longer engage in solving wicked problems. We can only pull the covers over our heads and cry about the monsters under the bed.

Posted by: c4logic on July 14, 2009 at 10:03 AM | PERMALINK

This is downrigt hilarious theatre. Two things come to mind about his whole affair. Just who exactly is it that thye think got offended by the the words blow job? Young children? Yea like the're watching that lame bullshit during the day. Older children? They know more about blow jobs then their parents do.
The second thing that sticks out is the Lewis Black bit about not being able to swear at the correspondents dinner when he performed during the Bush administration. THose words just turn those people to mush.

Posted by: Gandalf on July 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK

Oh, my gawd - Ms Wheeler had long hair and it was somewhat askew. No wonder, I was able to stay focused whenever Dana Perino was on. As her vapid thoughts meandered, I was able to work on the NYT Crossword, complete needed correspondence and the like. Image is ever sooooo important, eh? Shame that Central Casting is getting into the act of providing information.

Posted by: berttheclock on July 14, 2009 at 10:18 AM | PERMALINK

Instead of blow job she should have just mimicked the Republicans and said oral sex?? Since bitch is now ok to say on tv, I really don't understand why blow job is so forbidden. None of them are four letter words.

Posted by: mlm on July 14, 2009 at 10:42 AM | PERMALINK

Seems to me that if we can stand to bring the machinery of our government to a standstill over a blowjob, then we should be able to stand saying the word "blowjob."

Posted by: Roddy McCorley on July 14, 2009 at 10:59 AM | PERMALINK

"I am in agreement with Marcy's argument, but I think Marcy made a mistake. The one thing you don't want to do in any argument is allow the other side off the hook. Marcy's choice of words gave the Townhall twit an out."

***

Exactly right. Bloggers have a place in the public discourse because they are the next wave of journalism, but bloggers should also realize that when they go on the airwaves, they represent more than just themselves. They represent their entire slice of the blogosphere.

Instead of throwing up our hands and whining, we should accept that there are certain levels of professionalism that should be maintained. Her word choice did nothing at all to advance her point and, as noted above, shifted the post-interview chatter from what was at issue to a pointless micro-scandal.

Posted by: castanea on July 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM | PERMALINK

i still waiting for msnbc to apologize for having Pat Buchanan.

Posted by: tgp on July 14, 2009 at 11:09 AM | PERMALINK

And there I was, trying to figure out how even right-wing fundamentalists could get in a snit about "being in the back pocket" -- did they think it was some sort of weird gay practice (cf: tea bags) or something?

Posted by: PQuincy on July 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM | PERMALINK

Image is ever sooooo important, eh? Shame that Central Casting is getting into the act of providing information.

Image is undeniably important, because people who might be persuadable respond better to a neat, professional presentation. For whatever reason, someone with the appearance and demeanor of a perpetual grad student doesn't sell anything well, including ideas and information when outside a classroom (and sometimes even in the classroom). It's a central vanity among the left that deliberately ignoring personal presentation is "authentic" and "serious," but for the casual observer-- and again, these are the people we want to persuade-- seeing people who look disorganized and unkempt doesn't say "expert to whom I should listen."

As much as it sucks, there are reasons that perky young women are pharmaceutical reps visiting middle-aged male doctors and that even the smarmiest used-car salesmen are typically well-groomed and tidily dressed-- and the higher-ticket the items offered (or more challenging the idea), the more this stuff matters. I'm an old theatre geek, and one thing I learned right out of the gate was that if I wanted directors to pay attention to me and consider putting me out front to tell the stories they were presenting, then I needed to look like what they expected to see and not how I felt that day. Yes, this is casting, and it's also basic media professionalism.

Posted by: latts on July 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM | PERMALINK

Is "blow job" on the formal (but is it really never "shown" to anyone) list of seven (or more?) forbidden words or phrases? I remember from a PBS show last night on edgy comedians like Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, that the FCC won't even release the list (directly?) I guess because that would mean having to print the words!

Let's remind Marcy's critics about Dick "fuck you" Cheney, etc.

Posted by: demoraptor on July 14, 2009 at 11:25 AM | PERMALINK

"Let's remind Marcy's critics about Dick "fuck you" Cheney, etc."

***

If Cheney had made that comment when he was on the airwaves, sure. But he wasn't.

latts' comment above hits the nail on the head. If you want to persuade someone who is, say, undecided about an issue, you behave differently than when you are back on your blog preaching to the choir.

Posted by: castanea on July 14, 2009 at 11:40 AM | PERMALINK

The Villagers' squeamishness is more understandable in light of the fact that they don't want to use the word "torture" do describe Bush's torture programs.

Posted by: Gregory on July 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

we've got enough on our plate with the piggy debt president and his piggy wife ripping us off.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/london.asp
'On Sunday, President Obama flew back to the United States on Air Force One. His wife, two daughters and her mother did a bit of shopping in Paris before taking their own Boeing 757 over to London to do some sight seeing

We all remember Obama's admonishment to corporate CEO's in February:

"You can't get corporate jets, you can't go take a trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayers dime."

Apparently that doesn't apply to his wife."

Posted by: Luther on July 14, 2009 at 12:14 PM | PERMALINK

I disagree that this is somehow some horrible mistake that Marcy made that undermined her argument. If she didn't say "blowjob," would anyone be talking about the segment today? Also, what better way to highlight the rank hypocrisy between the investigations of Clinton and the lack of them for Bush than by exposing the media as more concerned with Puritanical language restrictions than with war crimes.

When is the Left going to learn to defend its own rather than leaping to condemn them?

Posted by: kidcharles on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINK

Speaking of "Republican-speak", I've had the oddest feeling that when Mark Sanford was confessing he had NOT had actual sex with the six or so women he admitted having relations with, that he was talking about blow-jobs. (Evidently, he only had sex with Maria-from-Argentina). Blow-jobs to Republicans are NOT actual sex.

I agree that Wheeler probably shouldn't have used that term on TV ONLY because it gives her critics something to bitch about, while being able to ignore the true import of her statements.

Also, about the Hair Issue. There's an MSNBC newsreader on the weekends - Alex Witt, I think - who has the "biggest hair" I've ever seen. I really can't stand looking at her while I'm listening to her - and she actually isn't all that bad - because of that HAIR, which is so distracting! I can't believe her bosses haven't said anything to her.

Posted by: phoebes-in-santa fe on July 14, 2009 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, and I can't stand watching Tamron Hall, who's so fucking dumb. She also has NO sense of what she's reading; she acts with the same immoderation whether she's talking about a cat-in-a-tree in SnarkAss, Kansas as she is talking about a nuclear strike in Iran.

She's a moron.

Posted by: phoebes-in-santa fe on July 14, 2009 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

"who exactly is it that they think got offended by the the words blow job? Young children? Yea like the're watching that lame bullshit during the day." - Gandalf

Right. I'd rather they listen to a news show where they wouldn't know what they're missing, than say, daytime soap operas. They really don't leave much to the imagination any more.

Posted by: Marko on July 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

Luther, the President is a public employee and his salary and a certain level of expenses are paid by the public by definition. The corporate CEOs were members of private companies getting extraordinary bailout money, and we had the right to impose conditions on that - get the difference?

tyrannogenius

Posted by: n e i l b on July 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

The right would say my child then asked "Mommy, what's a blow job?" which is a complete lie. Who lets their small child watch MSNBC? And if they are a teen then they already know what a 'blow job' is. There were more depositions and hearings on the Clintons than all the presidents put together. Millions of tax dollars were spent investigating them...it was shameless and non productive.

Here we already have more than enough information to warrant an investigation that it is just infuriating that one is not in progress already. The crimes are much more serious involving the death and destruction of millions, illegal spying, and torture resulting in deaths...TORTURE for god's sake.

We are either a nation of laws or a nation of hypocrisy. If no investigation comes after the most corrupt administration in modern times blatantly broke our laws then we can no longer say we stand for justice and our motto truly will be ..."if the president does it then it is not illegal."

Posted by: bjobotts on July 14, 2009 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

btw Marcy...it may have been about a blow job but the law he broke was lying under oath to investigators. Marcy's anger was expressed by applying a 'shock' term...completely understandable but just became a distraction from her argument. Shouldn't but did.

Posted by: bjobotts on July 14, 2009 at 1:41 PM | PERMALINK

People's aversion to the word reminds me of the continuing storyline in the Harry Potter movies, to wit, the refusal by the older, and purportedly wiser wizards (i.e. the Villagers) to actually say the name of their longtime nemesis, Voldemort. Instead they say "he who must not be named."

So the villagers stick to "demeaning the office of the presidency."

Personally, if it meant my president would refrain from illegal spying and starting illegal wars I would gladly agree to weekly orgies in the oval office. No marriages were ruined by Clinton's blowjob. That can't be said for Ensigns affair, or Gingrich's affair, or Giuliani's affair, or McCain's affair. Vitter's affair only led to someone killing herself...only.

You are either for law and order, or you are not.

Posted by: coltergeist on July 14, 2009 at 2:16 PM | PERMALINK
George Carlin would be rolling in his grave at the fact that there are now 9 words you can't say on television, and that two of them are "job" and "blow".

But what about that time on Leave it to Beaver when Ward Cleaver said, "Wow. I really blew that job interview."

Posted by: Husker Blue on July 14, 2009 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

I saw a gun commercial on Olbermann last night. I did not know this was even legal (to pimp guns on the tube). So, in between the hard-on, dick-bigger, scare-the-kids-to-death-and-give-them-nightmares Broadview Security commercials; and now gun maker commercials; David Shuster has the audacity to say his network is "Family Oriented." Asshole.

Posted by: Hazy on July 14, 2009 at 3:18 PM | PERMALINK

I forgot to mention hyperviolent extreme fighting pay-per-view commercials. Really family-oriented, for sure.

Posted by: Hazy on July 14, 2009 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

In response to remarks from Townhall's Matt Lewis, Marcy argued, "[Y]our idea is that after investigating Bill Clinton for a blow job for like five years, we shouldn't investigate the huge, grossly illegal things that were done under the past administration, only because Alberto Gonzales was too much in the back pocket of Dick Cheney to do it while he was still in office. That's ridiculous."

I agree that "persuadables" prefer the case to be made in polite language, but Wheeler's REAL mistake was to direct attention away from her point and toward a previous investigation. In the time that she had on air she ought to have repeated her case that the charges were serious and required serious investigation. This does not have anything to do with Clinton (a story that we already know too well), and everything to do with Bush, Cheney, and programs that may still be in operation -- and may entail violent crimes against Americans and our allies as well as violent actions against obvious enemies.

Repetition works just as well for the truth as it does for lies. It's the most effective tactic for engaging the people who are not active partisans already.

Posted by: MatthewRMarler on July 14, 2009 at 4:20 PM | PERMALINK

There is a distinction between blowjobs & oral sex for the GOP.

blowjobs - are free

oral sex - cost $$$$

That's why the GOP have a hard time accepting the word blowjob, because they don't get them.

Posted by: annjell on July 14, 2009 at 6:13 PM | PERMALINK

"I saw a gun commercial on Olbermann last night. I did not know this was even legal (to pimp guns on the tube). So, in between the hard-on, dick-bigger, scare-the-kids-to-death-and-give-them-nightmares Broadview Security commercials; and now gun maker commercials; David Shuster has the audacity to say his network is "Family Oriented." Asshole."

***

This is the kind of bull shit that makes being a liberal or a Democrat outside of a fairly thin geographic slice of America a challenge.

I've lived in the intermountain West for most of my adult life. I know Democrats who own guns. I know liberals who loathed George Bush, who support Roe v. Wade and health care reform, who think the invasion of Iraq was a huge mistake, and who own guns.

Get this: Some of them hunt.

And they don't hunt or own guns based on contrived, post-modernist, sexually inadequate (or repressed) bull shit reasons.

General, anti-gun (and, for that matter, anti-hunting) comments are pointless and serve only to alienate significant chunks of the electorate.

If you want the Democratic party to gain more appeal in rural America, and you should, you'll stow the stupid rhetoric. Asshole.

Posted by: castanea on July 14, 2009 at 9:39 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, the quip will divert attention from the main argument and that's silly. Unfortunately, that's also the reason for politic use of language. If she hadn't used the term, the point wouldn't have been so easily deflected.

Another way of looking at it, which I prefer, is that it attracts attention to an argument that otherwise would have fallen into the ether.

Posted by: stevenz on July 14, 2009 at 11:43 PM | PERMALINK

Gee, I remember MS?NBC talking a whole lot about oral sex, even using this very term, not all that long ago...

Posted by: soullite on July 15, 2009 at 8:10 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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