all this does is remind us that the dems already are a bipartisan party, comprising 3 elements: liberals, centrists, and moderate republicans scared of the right-wing crazies and hiding out in the democratic caucus.

it also reminds us that there is only so much the harry reids of the world can do when these kind of moron assholes are supposed to be your votes.

there isn't a one of these people i don't want to punch in the nose; more importantly, every single one is on the list of senators whose primary opponents i will contribute to until the end of time.

We've had the emergency brake engaged for 50 years for godsakes! These Senators have had enough time. No more excuses..no more delays!

Senators from Louisiana and Nebraska? I don't know. Maybe.

Senators from Oregon and Connecticut? There's no excuse for this. None. These two are clearly representing themselves and only themselves.

Centrists, my ass. Asshats more like it. Go ahead delay what Americans want. I hope there are pitchforks at your door this afternoon.

I say cancel their health insurance. I'd call them a bunch of cocksucking assholes but I'm too refined.

Follow the money.

Delay simply for the sake of delay hurts the uninsured and the underinsured. How about we cancel their gold platted insurance until we get health care reform?

I never thought I would ever say these words in this order...but I agree with The Galloping Trollop.

And I'm not too refined. These douchebags don't deserve a single ounce of civility. Strip them of their health insurance and feed them oysters nonstop until the recess.

Maybe the senators who are called centrist with quotation marks are actually standing up to the concept of what is ultimately a constitution destroying and freedom destroying concept. Maybe they ctually believe in what they do!

Conservatives. The ones to the right of them a crazy reactionaries. And yeah, Ithink it would be pretty simple: until a bill is passed, all of congress pays for their own damn health care.

Delay simply for the sake of delay hurts the uninsured and the underinsured. -Ron Byers

Ah, but this isn't just for the sake of delay. Every part of this is a carefully calculated move by big insurance to push the votes closer and closer to the midterm elections.

This is delay with the express intent to kill any kind of meaningful health insurance reform.

And the sad thing is, it will work. I have absolutely no hope that insurance reform that benefits the people will happen during our lifetimes.

The "centrists" are just doing what the medical insurance companies pay them to do.

I'm about done caring. The House bill is barely, minimally acceptable (and I'm not even convinced of that- the AMA likes it, after all), and if anything passes both houses it will clearly be something worse than useless. Fuck pretend health care "reform" and fuck the Democorporocrats. They can't lose power soon enough to suit me at this point- it's becoming increasingly obvious that the only way this country is going to begin dealing with its multiple crises is to let the Republicans finish destroying everything in a way so visible to so many people that it finally gets people into the streets to demand real change.

I think I'll be voting for left-wing fringe candidates from now on.

Ah, but this isn't just for the sake of delay. Every part of this is a carefully calculated move by big insurance to push the votes closer and closer to the midterm elections.

That would be a big miscalculation. "Have you ever wanted to start your own business, but couldn't afford the insurance for you and your employees? Well now you'll never be able to, thanks to Sen. Nelson. This November, ask Sen. Nelson why he hates small businesses." There are about a million ads like this that would make these idiots very uncomfortable. (Unless of course they have already decided not to run and are now angling for a job as a lobbyist.)

They can't lose power soon enough to suit me at this point- it's becoming increasingly obvious that the only way this country is going to begin dealing with its multiple crises is to let the Republicans finish destroying everything in a way so visible to so many people that it finally gets people into the streets to demand real change.

Godwin time: In Germany, the quote by the Communists was "Nach Hitler, Uns" (After Hitler, Us). They ended up in the camps.

Letting the village burn in order to save it doesn't work.

When "centrists" are this afraid of change, it just proves how successful the past thirty-odd years of relentless conservative propaganda have been. And how hard it's going to be to overcome.

Letting the village burn in order to save it doesn't work.

Nice Godwin attempt, but it's damn near burned to the ground already. People just don't understand the extent to which, and in how many ways, this country is in very deep trouble. There isn't going to be a "recovery".

doubtful: Every part of this is a carefully calculated move by big insurance to push the votes closer and closer to the midterm elections.

If the law is a good law, that is not a bad thing.

I think the motive is to give time to master the complexities and develop dependable cost estimates.

Neither of those two goals has yet been achieved with Waxman-Markey, TARP, or the stimulus package.

These corporate pigs should be made to renounce the title of Senator from such and such a State and then honesty say Senator from Blue Cross, or Senator from whatever Corporations they have sold their souls too............

This would all be meaningless if we hadn't adopted the rule that bills now require 60 votes to pass. If healthcare reform were simply a matter of a majority vote in the Senate it would have passed (with a public option) by now.

It's the sudden (and unprecedented) requirement of a 'Supermajority' that is killing any chance of real reform in this country. Not just on healthcare but also on the environment, financial regulation and a host of other issues.

One of those is not surprising. Wyden's probably seeking more time to try and get his plan into the mix.

The others, feh.

So they don't specifically say why they need more time? If not, then I can only assume that it's because they really don't want it to pass, and I don't think they do. They're certainly not concerned with their constituents, and why should they be? These A$$HOLES are set for life.
They've had years, if they still can't get it done, then get out of the way. Time for reconciliation.

And what's up with Ron Wyden? I didn't know him to be one of these bs "centrists"--I'm just gonna assume that he got bought by the insurance lobby. I assume the worst with these A$$HOLES who are content to let their constituents get sick, go broke, bankrupt and die while they insist on more time for no reason whatsoever.

The Money Party wants nothing to do with Health Care Reform. Any questions?

Joe effing Lieberman. Joe effing Lieberman.

Halfdan,

When the person running that ad can afford one play per night in prime time and Nelson and his ilk can flood the airwaves with ads, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the reasonable argument resonating with voters.

This song and dance is nothing new, it's just the golden rule: he who has the gold rules.

As Steve LaBonne says, until we're ready to take the streets, these Senators will continue to play us for fools all the while they line their coffers with insurance, oil, and drug money.

If the law is a good law, that is not a bad thing. -MatthewRMarler

It's never really that black and white, is it? A good law for the citizenry and a good law for the insurance giants is essentially a mutually exclusive scenario, and the closer we get to the midterms, the more appealing the laws will get for the moneyed interests. To think otherwise is naive.

The word "centrist" is apparently Latin for "bought-and-paid-for". Or maybe "status quo = good". Time to crank up the full might of the progressive media juggernaut and flood the districts of these cretins with ads asking why they hate the American people so much.

Why do these Congresspeople get both health insurance and six weeks off in the summer?

another comment on the politics

Congressfolks felt railroaded by the leadership in the Waxman-Markey vote, and don't want to be railroaded again.

Note to Nebraskans: Ben Nelson doesn't give a damn about your health care problems. He has done nothing to relive those problems. Mr Nelson is more concerned about serving the medical-industrial complex and preserving the rotten status quo.

Mary Landrieu is in the tank for the insurance industry. She disgusts me.

Conservatives. The ones to the right of them a crazy reactionaries. And yeah, Ithink it would be pretty simple: until a bill is passed, all of congress pays for their own damn health care.

Posted by: paul on July 17, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Only problem with this is that Congress would give themselves a raise plus 10 percent to cover the costs of the missing paid for health care.

What makes anyone think there will be a recess? If I were President, I would demand a special session until all Americans had some form of health insurance or treatment options--promoting the general welfare is an obligation of our government. The current system has failed a growing number of suffering citizens; a government which does not protect the welfare and health of its people is not much of a government.

I gave up hope about 3 days ago. Now I am waiting quietly for the funeral march for healthcare reform. I guess I was naive to think that average Americans could fight corporate interests. I'm beginning to think our government is more broken than Iran's. At least they take to the streets when outraged. I don't think enough Americans believe taking to the streets would even be covered by our corporate media. I didn't used to be so "extreme" in my paranoia, until I started paying attention to all this stuff when Obama was running. Now I wish I never had started paying attention. It's so demoralizing to realize how corrupt and self-serving Congressional members can be and always will be. Jesus. Millions of people uninsured and we can't get any decent healthcare because Congressional members care more about winning elections than their personal values. I guess, judging by recent scandals, not many politicians have any values these days (moral or financial), but I had hoped that a majority could be shamed into behaving with an appearance of care for their constituents.

And I am angry enough to be keeping close track of these people who are selling us out to the health insurance industry. In the midterm elections I will be sending my small portion of money to their opponents.

Will LIE-burr-man, Nelson, Landrieu and Wyden vote for cloture or not. That is the only question.

I couldn't care less what their positions are on the details of the plan.

Move 'em all into broom closets for a while. In fact, move Holy Joe into one permanently, seeing as how he's not a "Democrat."

I wish I could honestly say I care.

I've read the summary of the proposals. I'm just not seeing how it's going to actually deal with any of the issues the US healthcare system has. There's still no single payer system. There's still an obligation to get an insurer to actually insure you. Changing jobs is still likely to disrupt ongoing health care, and unemployment is likely to make health care unaffordable.

Instead of any fixes, we have a bizarre set of proposals that prop up the "Employer must pay" system (rather than abolish it), the employer still gets to choose your carrier, your carrier still gets to choose your doctor, and about the only improvement is that in most states (but not all) your employer will be able to choose (though you will not) a government plan that isn't run for profit.

Oh yeah, that'll help against... well, I guess the occasional issurer who abuses their ability to decide whether to pay out or not.

We need a workable accessable Universal Healthcare that doesn't have traps. We don't need this. I don't see any point in it.

We should cancel all Congressional health care plans until all Americans are covered.

Reid must act now to rein in these assholes. Lieberman must be stripped of all committee seats.

Make an example of him, and the rest of the spineless dems will take notice.

"I'm just not seeing how it's going to actually deal with any of the issues the US healthcare system has."

As someone with "pre-existing conditions," and no employer to cover me, I do.

But that's about it.

BTW, for those of you who haven't tried to get individual coverage, things as minor and easily treated as allergies or high blood pressure are "pre-existing conditions."

Can we now kick Joe Lieberman out of the Democratic caucus and strip him of his chairmanships? I knew he was going to be the snake that turns and bites Obama and the American people, when Obama insisted on welcoming him back in after the election.

Maybe someone in the White House (Hint: Obama) needs to challenge those so called Centrists and ask them the following:

"Are you willing to give up your government sponsored Health Care until a solution is worked out?"

Maybe some moron pundits can ask that question as well...

Benen says "... no matter what the bill looks like in the Senate, there are now Democrats who appear likely to help Republican obstructionism ..."

Doesn't that make them Democratic obstructionists as well? Oh no. That's right ... they are Democrats and Benen can't slam them hard.

C'mon! Call them traitors just like you do the Republicans ... or are you scared?

God I miss Kevin Drum.

Lieberman (I-CT) Lots of insurance companies there.
Nelson (D-NE) Lots of insurance there too.

Landrieu (D-LA) Probably worried about the public option.

Wyden (D-OR) Has his own plan. What other issues?

Snow & Collins are legitimate moderate Republicans who don't especially like lots of gov't stuff.

It's good to see that there weren't more Blue Dogs signed onto that letter. Of this group I think we may get the Mainers and Wyden. Lieberman and Nelson are just protecting home-state concerns and they're probably not gettable.

It's close.