"I don't think government can or should run health care." Obama

It works for every other developed country in the world. We are the only ones who get worked over by the insurance companies.

Reform? Where is it?

You are asking us to accept the word of a left-handed foreign-born president who wasn't properly sworn in, over the word of long-serving congressional leaders.

How gullible do you think we are?

An information exchange that included a public plan would lead to a very popular public plan.

For the simple reason that a public plan has no profit motive and can plan for the long-term, and a public plan would have a very large pool.

Now if some of these points could just filter down into the hard heads of the so-called reporters in the MSM, or some of the brainless skulls of some of the so-called pundits.

Sigh.

Please pardon my sniveling ignorance that is rooted is absolute delusions that I need to create in order to simply live with myself. My actual inner reality is one of being nothing more that a hemmoroid on the asshole of Lucifer himself. I love being a hemmoroid on Lucifer's asshole but just can't bring myself to admit it. So I need to make myself a victim and in order to do that I need to invent my victimized delusions in order to function. But, dam, I sure love the smell of shit in the morning.

Why is the Congressional vacation schedule so sacrosanct?? Ten percent of Americans are jobless, and plenty more are canceling their vacations b/c of the economy.

Is there some reason Reid and Pelosi can't do a joint press conference and say: "We understand that some in Congress think that we can't complete out work on the health care bills by the first week in August. That's fine--we'll just stay in session until we've finished the people's business. Once the bills are finished, we'll take our vacation."

I wish Obama would pressure Reid and Pelosi to do this. I think the move would be popular with most Americans, who think Congress doesn't work that hard to begin with. Why not?

Our proposals cut hundreds of billions of dollars in unnecessary spending and unwarranted giveaways to insurance companies in Medicare and Medicaid. They change incentives so providers will give patients the best care, not just the most expensive care, which will mean big savings over time.

That is a proposal, not a "fact check". No one who has followed the history of Medicare and Medicaid can possibly believe "proposals" about how much they will cost or save.

Steve Benen: I'm working on getting clarification of the issue.

You got your work cut out for you, if you want clarification on the main issues. You probably can't get the clarifications by Christmas, to say nothing of Labor Day or Columbus Day. For example, how much will the bill increase medical care spending by the states? If you can get three independent and reliable estimates that agree, please let us know.

I don't mean to be unfair to Steve, but the bills, in their diverse versions, are unclear or contradictory on most main points.

Free Reign

That's "rein".

All well and good but I don't understand why Obama and his team are forced to be counterpunching at this point. It was obvious to the rest of us that they should have had their ducks in a row vis a vis their own blue dogs and the senator/centrists before this. And the right way to do that was to have activated Obama's network before this week. And to have brought private pressure to bear on the Liebermans et al so that they at all times toe'd the party line. I am astonished that we have seen so much public sausage making and that we are at a point where Obama himself has to step in and look like he's playing catch up. There are still *democratic* representatives who are insisting that they dont' see what the fuss is about...who are publicly echoing republican faux concerns about the deficit. There should have been simply *zero* room for that kind of public backsliding. Zero. I don't care what kinds of arms had to be twisted or broken. From day one Obama and his team have known they were going to be doing this reform. And from day one they have known that the entire democratic party--let alone the people of the United States--would stand or fall on the excellence of the reform. That *always* meant a public plan. That *always* meant a fully subsidized and damned good public plan.

I hate to go all wire-y but everyone was quoting this telling point "if you go at the king...you'd best kill him" all through the last election cycle. We always knew we were going to have to kill the insurance companies and their lobbyists to get reform through. Why all this pussyfooting around? Obama, Rahm, Axelrod, Reid and Pelosi should have brought out their big guns months ago. Kennedy should have put into place a serious mouthpiece if he couldn't be there or one of the other democratic senators (fucking Kerry my do nothing senator) should have stepped in as his proxy.

aimai

As I read it, the public option isn't the only new "must":

...an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option...and choose what's best for your family.

Notice that the exchange is described as a marketplace you can use, and from which you could choose a public option.

Notice the lack of qualifications. It's not "where the uninsured...." It's not "where those without affordable coverage..." It's "where you can...choose[.]"

You could read this as a demand that the exchanges -- and the public option -- be available not only to those lacking affordable coverage, as in some current proposals, but to everyone.

I'm with aimai.

If reform was so important why didn't they work harder to control the boundaries of the debate from the beginning and to embed the basic ideas in the public consciousness much earlier.

And as for Kerry . . . .

Speaking as a 53-year old self-employed cancer survivor, I find the current situation to be insane.

Of course I have been rejected for medical insurance; and to get it - despite my Ivy League degree - I have enrolled as a student at the local technical college so I can qualify for their group student coverage. I also have supplemental accident insurance through AAA.

Fortunately I have not yet had a major illness which would test how much coverage I actually do have, but at my age and with my history, I am not happy.

I will be eligible for medicare in 12 years, have had about as much of this nonsense as I am going to take, and see no reason why opponents of health care reform should get to sit sweetly on their ass should this effort fail.

Simple answer to the Blue Dogs insistent on stonewalling the reform. Reid needs to rescind the committee membership and appoint a Dem who won't stonewall just for the sake of stonewalling.

I don't believe President Obama because I don't think healthcare reform that leaves the 1000+ for-profit private insurance carriers in charge of health care will work. We need real reform and that means single-payer, universal health care.

" ... the same folks who controlled the White House and Congress for the past eight years ... "

One assumes that Omaba knows who controlled Congress in 2007-2008, because he was sitting in it.

Are we just going to sit here and let him lie to us like that?

abm: Were you not paying attention? The republicans control the Congress *now*, and definitely were controlling it over the past 8 years.

I don't believe that government can or should run health care.

I wish that Obama had not said this. First, because it's demonstrably false (aside from nearly every other modern country in the world, there's the VA for starters). Second, because he just gave the party of no a ready-made sound bite with which to attack a public option, however dishonest.

"I don't believe government can, or should run health care." President Obama as reported and objected to by Catsy @ 2:51 PM.
First off, the plan put forward does not include "government-run" health care. Nor do Medicare or Medicaid qualify as "government-run", for that matter, they are simply government programs that provide access to health care, a difference that is not merely semantic. The Federal government is NOT involved in hiring hospital employees, doctors or technicians; it simply pays approved bills submitted to it by those people. To have a very good national health service doesn't require that, either (see France).
Yes, the VA has a very good reputation TODAY (unless you're a Republican); 30 years ago, not so good. It was still rife with the corruption that had marred it from its incepetion in the early 1920s and provided very spotty service, partially due to its being still seen as its value for political patronage. Excellent adminstrators and a changed view of its' raison d'etre - the patients, not political patronage - have finally changed that.
Personally, I have little doubt that the present bill will do much of what it aims to do, if not all. The most important parts are the public option and accessability to it. Right now the public option is "limited" to those making 4 times the official poverty level; that is a huge chunk of the population and, providing all goes well, there is no reason not to believe that restriction will eventually be removed.
Or so it appears to me.

Al said: "How gullible do you think we are?"

Judging from your first paragraph, you ID yourself as remarkably gullible. Those "long-serving congressional leaders" you talk about are always aiming for job security to maintain their status and privilege. I wouldn't trust the long-termers any further than I could throw them. The president, at leaset, has term limits.

Obamas' plan is not workable as his plan for cap and trade that will make his buddies rich and himself, and I wouldn't doubt If there are kick backs and every American that is old or retired will end up on welfare rolls becuz they cant afford heat, elect or even gas for their car.

Bob Nick, @ 20:04,

Have you sprung from the same genetic pool as Sarah Palin or are you the result of a vasectomy gone really, really, awry? You sound as if you'd been bobbed and nicked in all the wrong places, and it was your brain oxygen supply that had been tied off, instead of your sperm sack...

And if you *don't* like your current insurance and don't want to keep it . . . . well, too bad, you have to.

This is the part that never gets mentioned and no one asks about. If you want to bail from private insurance and go into the public plan, you can't. You aren't allowed. This keeps the insurance companies happy. Obama keeps talking about how the exchange gives you a "choice," including a public plan, but it doesn't. You only have that choice if you are uninsured, but not if you hate your insurance company.

We ouhgt to call Obama's healthcare what it is-VooDoo Healthcare.

I'm not so sure that these weekly messages have near the impact that they would if presented via some weekly 'Presidential chat' via TV or some other medium.

I just don't think many people watch these 'you-tube' events--I know I don't, even though I support the guy--I think they need to use the bully pulpit more effectively than this. I'd bet not many people see these, even though they're apparently chock full of good info and counterpoints.

Its a fact because Obama says its a fact. Wow. Did it occur to you that he is not a disinterested party? His facts don't appear to be backed up by anything, making them what is known as a 'statement' not a 'fact'. You the press secretary's dream come true. Whatever happened to the days of the skeptical press? I really miss those days.

"You the press secretary's dream come true. Whatever happened to the days of the skeptical press? I really miss those days."

They're all bought and paid for, they do as they are told.

Me too, Mike.
This eagerness to trust is sickening. People want the answers handed to them, and when something is handed to them, lies included, they eat it up. Pathetic.

@FitzRalph

I had cancer as a child here in Canada and subsequently am getting treatment for a tumor now.

Never had to worry about coverage and with national health, no pre-existing clause. I think you guy's down there in the states need to stop worrying about the insurance companies. Let them go. Bring things under a national system and help people get better.

Who cares about profits when it is peoples health?

I don't believe ANYTHING that commie pres says. If he puts himself and his precious "princess" and kids on it...maybe....

Oh, By the way...we are going to cover Mexicans? Illegals? the ones who work for cash, live in 20 person dormitories, get food stamps, free housing and education for their brats, and send their money back to Mexico? We are going to cover them? and anybody else who happens to fall over the border?

> How gullible do you think we are?

Very, I'd say. These same trusted congressmen are being paid billions in legitimate bribery to make the middlemen (insurance) richer than the services they provide. This is a manifestation of systematic rot, you've either not had a major hospital trip lately or you have a blocked nose and can't smell how bad the greed of the middlemen is stinking.

Al, you're the gullible one... to ignorant propaganda. A left handed falsely sworn in president? You're such a dork, lol my hick dad talks about that stuff. Do you read multiple news sources to get your info, or just pay attention to paranoid things?

"First, the same folks who controlled the White House and Congress for the past eight years as we ran up record deficits will argue -- believe it or not -- that health reform will lead to record deficits,"

Alright and Obama increased that debt TEN FOLD by funneling taxpayer money to special interests and foreign investors.

You liberals must really enjoy being led around by the nose.

"You are asking us to accept the word of a left-handed foreign-born president who wasn't properly sworn in, over the word of long-serving congressional leaders.

How gullible do you think we are?"

Well, hopefully less gullible than someone who believes that a) Obama was foreign-born, b) the "swearing in" at the inauguration is an actual legal event

I hope The White House Health plan fails. As a Canadian business owner, our government run health care is a major competitive advantage over U.S business.

If Obama's plan is implemented it will dramatically cut cost for American business making it harder for Canadians to compete. Why? Because Canadian businesses don’t have to pay insurance premiums like you Americans do. In Canada health care is pay through our taxes and because our health care costs are so much lower than yours it results in our business taxes being lower than yours as well.

I have seen several businesses in the last year shift their operations from the U.S to Canada to save cost, or downsize their American operations while maintaining their Canadian operations. So it should be no surprise that Ontario now produces more cars for the U.S market than Michigan. Moreover, since they don’t have health liabilities for their Canadian retirees, it is a lot cheaper to produce cars in Canada than in the U.S while still paying Canadian workers more than their American counterparts.

So my thanks to all you Republicans for sacrificing your jobs to keep us Canadians working.

Well, of course government running things, excuse me, paying for things, will increase efficiency! What does the government not do well?

Cut costs? Of course they will! When has the government ever spent more than they originally planned?

Ultimately, who cares how much it costs, I WANT! My 4 year old and I are going to hold our breath until we are given what we want!!!

Thanks to Mike the Canadian, we can now see how important it is for "Universal coverage" because it saves business money! Big businesses, one must hope. They NEED some subsidies!

Hopefully, this will pass so that Wal-Mart can crush their competition even more! Ozero favors it, and Wal-Mart does too! It must be good!

"Finally, opponents of health reform warn that this is all some big plot for socialized medicine or government-run health care with long lines and rationed care. That's not true either. I don't believe that government can or should run health care."

Funny, if this is true, they why, on page 16 of the bill in House committee, does it explicitly say no private insurance policy may be written that begins after this plan takes effect (reported in both Investors Business Daily and the NY Post)? In other words, why are new private policies being outlawed? Perhaps someone should do a little 'fact checking' on Obama the Liar. I'd love to hear someone ask him, point blank, about this. His explanation would probably be as ludicrous as his current claims that the stimulus was 'always a 2 year plan'.

How about some REAL reform, rather than the same old liberal scheme of yet another govt takeover?

Oh, and Obama the Liar also once again cries about 'the record deficits of the last 8 years', yet he doesn't have ONE projected deficit that's lower than the HIGHEST of the last 8 years. Get that? ALL of his deficits will be higher than ANY of the Bush years.

@AL

"How gullible do you think we are?"

Very; now bend over for the insurance companies, oh, and the banks who will let you remortgage your subprime home to pay for your health care - if the insurance companies let you have the care you need.

"My actual inner reality is one of being nothing more that a hemmoroid on the asshole of Lucifer himself."

You are a hemorrhoid on Cheney's ass?

Of course, Obama wants and will require a public option to get his signature. The whole idea is to get the government's foot in the door of the insurance industry. Then it can slowly but surely ensure the withering away of the private options as it fixes the rules to favor itself, tempts companies to dump workers into the "public option" -- that is, government-rationed care -- and otherwise overspends and bankrupts the government -- as Medicare is well on its way to doing.

" ... the same folks who controlled the White House and Congress for the past eight years ... "

Who's checking facts on the fact checker? In the 2006 midterms, Democrats took control of both houses of Congress, which included Senator Obama. Of course, maybe he wasn't there long enough to notice....

Come on guys. Al is clearly a troll who enjoys internet flame wars and picked the most incendiary thing he (or she) could think of. I bet he's laughing at all of you who responded to his misdirection from the issue at hand. As for said issue, I'm not buying anything either side says until I see what the fallout looks like. Words are great but I put stock in results. (I like Obama, and as a nurse I am all for healthcare reform, but it's going to be a long painful haul.)

@ Richard Burr et al: Yeah the Dems took over the House and Senate because of dissatisfaction with the 'Cans - and of course the 'Cans started a record number of filibusters as well as having a Pres. in that could be counted on to toe party lines to thwart the will of the people. (funny about the filibusters, considering all the noise the 'Cans made about Dems using the same strategy but far fewer times).