mike ross is a big pharma slimeball. throw him out of the party on his ear.

At this point, it seems likely the leadership will simply bring the tri-committee bill to the floor, bypassing the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Let's hope they remember to strip out all of the concessions they made to the Blue Dogs in the first place.

What Jinchi said. If Obama and Pelosi can't get this through, can't stiff-arm enough of them, they should resign.

"We are actually trying to save the bill and we are trying to save our party,"

Liar.

Hallelujah, the Blue Dogs are pissed. They got arrogant, overstepped, and Rahm and Hank stomped their nuts right into the ground.

About fucking time.

These fucking blue dogs all need primary challengers. I don't think Obama is going to let any of them get any DNC money if they vote no on this.

So is there no independent Medicare commission anymore? I thought that was actually a good idea for cost containment.

I would like to think that congress critters are going to get an earful when they go back and talk to constituents and come back in September and do something but I ain't holding my breath.

Blue Dogs have taken their position on Custer's Last Stand, question is whether Sitting Bull will give the command and the natives will swarm.

What for did Obama collect the address information of his armee of supporters?

What Patrick said @4:07: primary the Blue Turds.

Melancon, Ross & Co. have about 24-27 hard votes. There are a lot of nominal Blue Dogs who aren't going to die in the last ditch for this. Here's the caucus membership -- I can think of a dozen anyways who aren't going to do a Captain-Ahab-and-the-whale to stop this, starting with Michaud, and Sanchez, who's on record as pro public-option.

Pelosi has a lot of detractors, but her people can whip, as we saw with Social Security 'reform'...

I think it's good for the blue dogs to be reminded that it's the dog that wags the tail, not the other way around.

Every single Democrat who does not vote for this bill deserves to have all -- all -- party funding denied them, and every single one of them deserves primary challengers.

Democrats need to realize that they're traditionally the party of the people, regular people, not rich people and big businesses. And those regular people are by far the majority of the population. It'd be nice to be represented now & then, wouldn't it?

This is a once in a career, or perhaps life-time, opportunity, and the Blue Dogs are pissing it away. If Dems passed meaningful healthcare reform it would do the following:
1. Ensure better health care for millions of voters.
2. Make American corporations internationally competitive.
3. Keep the middle class safe from the dangers of bankruptcy due to hospitalization bills.
4. Boost the economy.
Those 4 things would be enough to float a senatorial campaign for years. To be able to say, "I helped to give you this tremendous social good," would essentially doom the GOP to minority status until at least the current senatorial and congressional classes retired, even without money from big Pharma and probably without money from lots of other PACS! What does it say about Ross and others that they don't seem to care about that? That they would rather have to court the rich and powerful to stay in congress?

This reminds me of Cicero's famous oratory: eff you!

i think it was Cicero.

Save the party? eff you, you arrogant prick!!

From the desk of Mike Ross:

"we are trying to save our party" by ripping its guts out!

It's my party & I'll whine if I want to, whine if I want to... (with apologies to Leslie Gore)

Hallelujah, the Blue Dogs are pissed. They got arrogant, overstepped, and Rahm and Hank stomped their nuts right into the ground.

About fucking time.

Posted by: Yellow Dog on July 24, 2009 at 4:04 PM |

Hooray!! Maybe enough of the Blue Dogs will vote with the GOP so that the only vote that is taken before the August recess results in the rejection of the Waxman bill by the full House.

It would be an act of incredible stupidity for the leadership to alienate a sizable minority of their own caucus by bringing the bill directly to the floor for a vote. But then again, we are talking about the dumbest leadership the House has ever seen. So I wouldn't put it pass Nancy and the boys to be that fracking stupid.

The Blue Dogs aren't trying to improve reform. They're trying to kill it. The D's in front the of their names are misleading. They should form their own party and run as Blue Dogs so that people know who they're voting for. Like Georgia's former Senator Zell Miller, many of them (my congressman included) pulled a bait and switch on their constituents.

Who are the 40-45 votes the Blue Dogs are counting on?

Let's be honest herre: The Blue Dogs never wanted reform in the first place. They are entirely happy with the status quo, not because that's what their constituents want -- poll after poll says otherwise -- but because they get too much campaign cash. Hell, the only reason they call themselves "Democrats" is because that's the only way they could get elected in their districts.

This is yet ANOTHER reason why campaign finance reform needs to be one of the top priorities for progressives, and anyone else who is tired of seeing the gov't ran by "they the corporations," rather than "we the people."

Make industry money irrelevant, and I'd bet my left leg we'd have a government that actually works for us, instead of against us.

In the mean time, I'm going to keep looking at houses in Denmark (found a few, but still looking). And no, I'm not joking ...

The Blue (cross) dogs are doing exactly what they were predicted to do. All their actions have just been for show as they were leading the path to eviscerating reform bit by bit. These 40-45 dems know better than all the rest of the House dems on how to reform HC ins.

Groups have formed to run ads in their home districts now and come election time...there will be consequences to siding with the corporate obstructionist's party.

Threatening to derail the entire HC ins reform effort simply because "not all" of their ideas were included is definite proof that this was their plan all along. Far and above most other congressmen, Henry Waxman is highly respected and trusted and if he claims that in compromising with these Blue dogs they were just pushing plans that would eviscerate the reform bill to the point that he just wants to skip his own committee's input (a bold action for a committee chairman that takes *guts* to stand up and do), then I am certain these Blue dogs were just bought and bribed lobbyists' puppies pissing on the democratic agenda.

The right has become extremely desperate that all they have left to defeat reform is to stall, and infiltrate the dem majority. Fu*k the blue dips. We will not forget-even your own constituents will hate you for this.

Hooray!! Maybe enough of the Blue Dogs will vote with the GOP so that the only vote that is taken before the August recess results in the rejection of the Waxman bill by the full House.

Uh-huh, and the GOP will be known as the party that killed health care reform, something that the overwhelming majority of voters want. Good luck in the elections.

It would be an act of incredible stupidity for the leadership to alienate a sizable minority of their own caucus by bringing the bill directly to the floor for a vote.

It would be even more stupid to cave in to unreasonable demands and eviscerate the bill, thereby removing all meaningful reform from it.

wish i knew exactly what the proposals/disagreements are? dont think the house bill is perfect by any means and i dont think it does a very good job at cost containment (in part due to weakening the public option). an indep. commission does sound like a sound idea and ross is right that if the dems screw this up it will hurt the party. i dont trust any of the members of congress or their rhetoric on this. give us transparency!

I've said it in various places over various days, but I'll say it again:

Right, Left, Center- it is all about getting re-elected. Looking out for Number One, baby, and campaign cash is king.

So, you VOTERS can go piss up a rope, unless you can match Big Pharma/Oil/Banking/Insurance/Defense dollar for dollar for the Committee to Reelect-fill in the blank. . .

UPDATE: Talks are back on, per HuffPost.

Doubt it'll amount to much, though, and I'm wondering how much Waxman is willing to concede.

Serious investigation is needed for each and every yella-striped Blue Dog. Every tie to Big Pharma and Bigger Insurance needs to be publicized and criticized publicly and RELENTLESSLY. It was Blue Dogs, after all, that led this country to the right from the passage of the Civil Rights bill in the mid Sixties, till recently. Now that they can handle racial equality, they're still dedicated to protecting their biggest contributors at the expense of the health and wallets of their constituents.

Maximum exposure. Maximum pressure. Let's all play hardball the rest of the way.

The talks are back on? Somebody did a whip count and realized that they couldn't deliver what they threatened. I wonder who blinked?

"the GOP will be known as the party that killed health care reform"

The Democrats have all the votes the need to pass anything they want. If a bill fails, it won't be because of Republicans. It will be because Democratic leadership couldn't acquire the required votes from their own party.

Posted by: Sisyphus on July 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM

Sisyphus- These dogs will act like Bobby Jindall and go through their districts taking credit for all the good being done in spite of their voting against it.

Maybe Benen was right when he said the blue dogs and conservadems don't want a big majority as it takes away their power to make or break legislation by which side they decide to jump to...like now. They are very motivated to kill HC ins reform. This issue is too big for their selfishness and self interest and begs accountability.

"...Right, Left, Center- it is all about getting re-elected. Looking out for Number One, baby, and campaign cash is king. .."-DAY

Partly true but we'd never have Medicare and SS if that were totally true...much less SCHIP. Dollars can't replace votes even though they influence them. All his billions still can't get Hagee elected...or Pat Robertson.

If you want to see what the Blue dogs are really doing...what they are upset about...and their history of selective obstructionism...then follow this link to a brief article on these well funded poodles.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/07/24/healthcare/

They are getting huge donations from private ins.

I wondered if their demands held enough water to justify killing HC ins reform...they don't...not even close...they are just carrying out their orders and masking it as concern for Americans. Even their own constituents oppose their tactics.

One of the biggest problems that the Canadian universal healthCARE (not insurance) system has is that it is manipulated by politics. Instead of placing a hospital, a clinic or whatever where it would do the most good, it goes to the district where a Member of the Legislative Assembly needs the votes for the next election. The Canadian system provides those new MRI machines (both of them) to the city that best improves the status of the government. The same government decides what the fees will be for the doctors. It is illegal for a doctor or nurse to charge "user fees" over and above what teh government pays. An awful lot of Canadian doctors and nurses refuse to work for these fees that are less than they are worth and have left the country to work in the US,the Middle-East, Europe etc causing a shortage of Doctors and nurses in Canada. Even though it is illegal to have a private clinic in Canada, many are now springing up because of long waiting lists and the government is turning a blind eye. User fees are charged. Seems that the government can't force people to work for low fees after all.
ANY OF THIS SOUNDING FAMILIAR???

If Mike Ross is trying to save the Democratic party, he's got a funny way of showing it.

I wonder what happens if the Blue Dogs, right after the bill make a motion for a no-confidence vote in Nancy Pelosi?

And if the Republicans decide to back the Blue Dog candidate.

How all of you, and Rahm Emanuel will react to a Blue Dog speaker?

Cause it will happen.

And if the Bluedogs are "kicked out" ... wait who is majority leader?
Not the Democrats.

Whoever the Blue Dogs DECIDE is majority leader.

Talk about kicking us out of the Party is trash-talk, without us there is only a shell of a party. Fiscal responsibility is reasonable,
and without it we won't have a operational government, much less a party. Grow up.

There aren't enough yellow pups to take over the party. PUMA

What pisses ME off (apologies to Charlie) is that these guys are fucking up something of fundamental concern to ME and yet not a single goddamn one of them will accept email from me since I am out of their district.

In the event that any of the the Blue Balls Dogs are listening, this is my message: Shut the fuck up already, and get the fuck out of the way.

It seems anything that has a slight bent to fiscal responsibility pisses you all off. Go ahead and steamroll this thing through. If it happens, all the Blue Dogs will get beat in '10 and we lose our majority in the House. How do you like that thought?

Also, any ideas on how to pay for this? We cannot sock it to the rich with higher taxes. All they have to do is stop working and quit paying taxes; then all the trillions of dollars we need to get all the social programs through will be gone. Guys, don't forget universal healthcare is bankrupting Britain. You want the republicans back, just keep spending money we don't have.

I love the Leftist morons who "demand" the Blue Dogs be replaced with "real" comrades. What the boobs don't realize is that if a Leftist defeated a Blue Dog in a primary, the Leftist would get waxed in the general election. Why? Because the Blue Dogs...by definition...come from districts that are Centrist. Duh!

These districts will elect ANY Republican over a hard core Leftist any day. So to the low IQ ideological dorks on this thread...I say bring on the primaries!

If this bill fails, you can't blame the Republicans. You've got a majority in
both houses! You can pass anything you
want to!

Good point, JohnR. The reason the Blue Dogs
are standing up to this is because they
got hammered in their districts for
supporting Cap and Trade. A bill that is
doomed in the Senate. Now they are being
asked to do the same for this "health bill."
They know full well that if they do support,
it they will be out in 2010.

"Guys, don't forget universal healthcare is bankrupting Britain. You want the republicans back, just keep spending money we don't have."

It's amazing how many Dems don't get this. It's not rocket science. The poll numbers are showing
a real concern among the general public in both of these areas.

To bad the liberals are going to lose their majority in 2010. Even if the GOP does not get an outright majority they will get enough seats that in cooperation with the blue dogs they will have effective control. Princess nancy could have avoided this if she had not insisted on a far left socialist agenda.

"Guys, don't forget universal healthcare is bankrupting Britain."

There you go, and stupid us thought it's all the billions they had to throw into the pit to save some banks, the lodestars of free market capitalism.

JD, if you think that reforming health care is not affordable, wait until you see how affordable not reforming health care will be.

"Guys, don't forget universal healthcare is bankrupting Britain."

To follow up on that:
The UK spends less than 8% of GDP on health care and the US more than 15%, without achieving universal coverage, but excelling in achieving universally low ranks regarding almost any measure in international comparisons among developed countries. Yet, according to JD and HS, the country that is being bankrupted by its health care system is the UK.

Guys, you need to get your head out of the dark place on your back side and afford it some oxygen.

SRW1 you keep forgetting that we have the best
health care in the world. Canadians and Brits and everyone else flock here for treatment not vice versa.

As for cost: The CBO keeps sending more great news on how the Dems health plan will only increase costs not reduce them. The latest report was just released today.

HarryS. is full of shit - spoonfed to him by Drudge, who didn't understand what he was reading, being a simpleton and all. Here is Orzag today explaining the numbers in their entire context.

The only one that's "full of shit", Realist, is you. Drudge linked Politico who titled the article, "CBO Deals New Blow to Health Plan."

They state, "For the second time this month, congressional budget analysts have dealt a blow to the Democrat's health reform efforts, this time by saying a plan touted by the White House as crucial to paying for the bill would actually save almost no money over 10 years."

If y'all can't see that a half-trillion-dollar blow to Social Security will sink the Democratic Party...rave on...50% of small business involves
3-9 employees, but nets $350,000...they get nailed
too. No seniors, no small business, no Democrats.

To those of you rallying against the Blue Dogs: give me a break. If you try to replace them with lefties in their respective districts then the offices in question will go to moderate (or even right-wing) Republicans.. full stop.

Blue Dogs won the last election for you.. you cannot succeed without them in 2012. We'll be eying Obama's policies carefully, and many of us could flop to a moderate Republican in the next general election.